Author Topic: Question about moving away from the N  (Read 2481 times)

tayana

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Question about moving away from the N
« on: June 24, 2008, 11:47:59 AM »
How do you learn to separate the N from a new person in your life? 

There a many times my partner will do or say something that reminds me of my mom, and it triggers a bad reaction.  The other day we were cleaning up and I drop a box of nails down the stairs, I thought my partner would yell at me for making a mess.  She didn't, but for a few minutes I was just completely panicked. 

Or sometimes she'll say something meant to be constructive, but I hear my mom harping at me.  Or she'll jokingly criticize how I do things, but I don't hear the joke.  Then she gets upset because I take everything too personally.  I don't want to compare her to my mom, but there are times, especially when we're working on projects together that I feel like she's very judgemental and critical.  I've tried to explain to her, and she gets upset because I'm comparing her to my mom.  I don't mean to do this.  I don't want to.  But she's never met my parents or my mom, so she doesn't understand the level of criticism.  She says that I blame everything on my mom, or else I take all of the blame myself.  Like with M, I really blame myself for not being able to get away from my mom sooner, and for M having developed some very bad habits.  I cringe when my partner disciplines M, even though that's what I want.  I feel inferior because she's so much better at getting M to do things than I am.  I just feel like I can't really do anything right sometimes.

H tells me how wonderful I am and how beautiful and sexy I am, but she's hurt when I don't believe her.  I can't seem to make her understand how much I cringe when I hear that criticism, even good, constructive criticism.  I have seriously gotten in some very bad places a few times, which has resulted in us fighting over something silly or else me breaking down in tears.

Any advice?
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Ami

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 01:35:06 PM »
If you get the book 'Reclaiming Your Life" by Jensen, you can see how you can work through present day feelings, which have FOO feelings as roots. Then, we can have a discussion about it.       Ami
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 01:46:47 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

ann3

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 03:41:51 PM »
Dear Tayana & Ami,

I have thanked Ami before for her suggestion to read 'Reclaiming Your Life" by Jensen and I thank you again, ((((((((((((Ami))))))))))).

'Reclaiming Your Life" by Jensen is perhaps the best book I've read re: healing from N parents.  It's so good, so chock full of incredible info that I can only read a few pages at a time, since I deeply reflect & absorb almost every page.  I have underlined on almost every page.  It's an incredible book.

Thank you, again, Ami:  you've made a big impact on my life by suggesting I read it.

So Tayana, please get this book.

In the book, the author discusses couples where partners are unaware of their own childhood injuries.  I hate to say it, Tayana, , but, do you think your partner does not understand the implications of the injuries done to you by your mother?  If so, perhaps that could be problematic, but it could also be remedied if she was able to become aware of your 'childhood/growing up' injuries.

Today, I was reading the book and the author talks about how when we are adults, we still we may be living with our childhood fears and that we may not feel or consciously know that we no longer have to fear our parents (as we did when we were children), but we still have those feelings of fear & anxiety (like when you dropped the nails & you feared your partner would get angry).  Sorry I'm explaining this inarticulately.

love to you both,
ann


tayana

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 04:18:53 PM »
Hi Ann,

H doesn't really understand, having never met my mother, the sort of wounds I have.  She didn't have the best childhood either.  Her father was violently abusive, but later sought help and resolved his issues.  They are fine now.  Her parents aren't N's.  Deep down I am still afraid of my mom.  I always have this fear that I will turn into her.  Part of my inability to trust H with some of the things I tell my T is that deep down I'm afraid our relationship will be like my parents.  I don't want it to be, but when she says something, I can't help seeing my mom.  She gets upset with me for it.  H knows that I have a hard time trusting people, and I've asked her to be patient while I learn to trust her not to hurt me like that.  She tells me everything, and she wants me to do the same.  Only, I'm not there yet.  She was really hurt when I realized that I wasn't ready for that step yet.

I don't know.  I love H.  I want to be with her, but I always feel like I'm holding back.  I never feel like I can really voice my opinion.  I don't want to make her angry, even though my T says that if she gets angry that's her choice.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Ami

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 04:46:43 PM »
Your situation with your partner ,Tayana, is exactly the situation Jensen talks about.  If you are willing to feel the pain of the original injury, from your M, you can heal, IME. Feeling the feelings are the key. People can talk until they are blue in the face and not heal. It is all about feeling.          Ami
 

« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 05:34:09 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

gratitude28

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 06:56:11 PM »
Tay,
I have been married for 15 years and am just starting to get a grasp on what things are triggers for me with my husband. You have gone into your relationship with this knowledge, which is wonderful. I spent 10 years in a fog waiting for my husband to blossom into my mother before realizing it wasn't (thank God) going to happen.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

dandylife

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 08:38:09 PM »
Tayana,

In the book, Emotional Alchemy by Tara Goleman, she talks about just this thing.

(In fact, this topic is the heart of the book, Dianetics, by L. Ron Hubbard, - founder of Scientology - but that might scare you away, so....) anybody interested in that topic?


Anyway - in Emotional Alchemy, Ms. Goleman talks alot about her specialty - which is "Schema Therapy". Behind this is the thought that there are about 10 or 12 different life "schemas" that can really mess you up. One of the most common is "Abandonment" - because your caregiver abandoned you at a young age, you then play that out through your life, believing that everyone you care about will leave you.

Etc, etc.

It makes a lot of sense.

Some of the others are....

Emotional Deprivation

Dependence

Subjugation

Mistrust/Abuse

I am Defective


The books gives tips on how to eradicate these schemas from your thinking.

I highly recommend it.

Dandylife





"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

lighter

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 08:44:52 PM »
Tay..... the thing with kids is....

they save their very best power struggles for mama.

If he's behaving better for your partner..... it's not bc she's better with him.

I'm curiouse.... I know she doesn't have any experience with N's, and therefore, can't comprehend the mountain you're climbing to overcome past abuse etc....

but....

what experience does she have with children?

IS she a parent?

Has she been watching you parent and following your lead, her way?

As for your triggers and problem dealing with criticism....

maybe it's time your partner meet with your T, and let someone else explaine (read that as adcovate for you) regarding your mother and upbringing/challenges.

I don't really feel we're capable of explaining those things, that haunt and terrorize, us appropriately.

(((tay)) 

Lighter


tayana

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 11:39:18 PM »
I got the Jensen book from the library.  I'll have to look for the Emotional Alchemy one.  It sounds really interesting.

Lighter, H and I have gone to my T together, but we mostly talk about our relationship.  Her previous SO had kids that she basically raised, and she loves kids.  She and M do get along well together.  She's impressed on me dozens of times that we are a team, and I try to believe that, most of the time.  I have a hard time with it.  I keep waiting for the catch.  I keep expecting her to turn to me and say, "See how easy it is.  I don't know what your problem has been." 

My T is concerned because I fall into a pattern of trying to please H, just like I pleased my mother.  I have to work very hard not to fall into that pattern and to remember to speak up when things bother me.  I don't feel comfortable doing that.  We had a yard sale over the weekend and I really didn't feel comfortable saying, "No, I really love that and want to keep it."  I wanted to weed down my stuff, but some of the things I sold, I really liked.  I just didn't have a place for them, so I got rid of them.  We made quite a lot of money and we're using it for landscaping.  It was just really stressful.  I'm working on being more assertive, but I don't succeed very often.  Worst of all, my partner feels like her ideas are never heard or that I never want to do what she wants, and I often feel the exact opposite.  Like, I never get to just spend time at home.  We're always doing something.  I just want to get into a regular routine.  I like routine.

I've never had my T explain about my mother.  She's said it's understandable why I react certain ways, but that's about all.  Mostly when we see her together, it's just about our relationship
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Hopalong

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2008, 07:00:30 AM »
Hi Tay,
Just hopped in to say, every single book I read about step-parenting said that it is critically important that the person in the role of a step-parent NOT discipline or punish a child. Their role may be at times "the adult in charge" if they're alone in the house with your child, and then the child needs to recognize they're the boss while you're away, just as any adult who is present would have that responsibility. But that's NOT the same as disciplinarian--setting rules, determining punishments, etc. That is only the parent's job.

I noticed you said you "want H to discipline M" and that worried me. You don't want to get into the same situation you were in with your mother, when you handed over your authority as M's mother to your mother (and boy did she take it).

Don't let that happen with H, either, even if she says "we're a team" and "I love kids". Both of those things may be true and I'm sure H is a wonderful addition to M's life but YOU are M's only parent in your home. A step-parent figure should be an adult friend to the child of their partner. That can be a wonderful thing. But it's not the same as a parent.

H should read up on step-parenting and so should you, imo. Don't let your authority as his mother be ceded to anyone. Even if someone else feels opinionated or confident about when or why M should be "disciplined".

Hope that makes sense.

love,
Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

tayana

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 11:42:38 AM »
Thanks Hops and CB.  There's a lot of times I really think I bit off more than I can handle.  I'm really sort of glad I'm NC with my family because to have to deal with their attitudes and opinions while trying to sort everything else out would probably cause me to have a nervous breakdown.  There's a lot of times that I sit around and I can't believe it's all real.  I have a hard time believing that I'm as wonderful as H seems to think when I have all of this stuff I'm trying to sort out.  I don't have the self image where I can really accept her compliments and believe them, and that bothers her.  She tells me I'm beautiful, and I don't believe her.  Then she gets upset because I don't believe her.

CB, a lot of times I just don't want to talk about it.  H wants me to talk and sort of worms things out of me, even if I'm not ready to talk.  And she's often hurt because she doesn't like what I tell her.  She doesn't like that I take some of her jokes personally, and she doesn't understand that similar jokes have been used to hurt me.  So then she's upset when I take things the wrong way.  Then I'm upset because she gets mad and I don't know why. 

I have a bad habit of blaming myself for everything that goes wrong.  If M is being particularly snotty, I feel like it's my fault.  When H started watching a few other kids to make some extra money, she complained about M's poor social skills.  I felt like it was my fault that he had such poor skills because I didn't get him away from my mother sooner.  My mom never allowed M to do things normal kids would do.  He's never been allowed to just "be a kid," and H doesn't really understand what that's like.  She's often stunned when she finds out that I've never done things most kids do, or that my family never went on vacations.  M tends to think of himself as an adult, rather than a kid, and that bothers H.  She doesn't feel that M respects me like he should, and that's what we've been working on together is teaching him to be more respectful and listen to what he's told to do rather than just arguing and bargaining.  It's had a very positive effect overall, but sometimes it makes me a little uncomfortable.

I have a hard time handling things when I don't know what H is thinking and I think she's upset with me.  She always wants me to talk when I'm upset, but she often doesn't reciprocate.  There's times when I don't really want to play around and that upsets her.  I tend to be a very serious person and I think that bothers her.  I can never quite tell if she's being quiet because she's tired, or if I've done something to upset her.  I usually assume that I've upset her because my mom always stopped talking to me when she was mad.  H has a habit of going off alone when she's mad at me, and that is a defnite trigger for me.  I never quite know what I've done, and then when she doesn't want to talk to me, I assume that I'll have days of silence.  She actually got mad when I told her I'd rather her yell and scream at me.  I'd rather have that than silence though, at least I'd know what I did.  She gets mad because I assume things with her, like I assumed she would yell at me for dropping a box of nails.

There are little things that are so like my mom that they really set me on edge.  She has a habit of redoing things after I do them because she doesn't like the way I do them.  If I say something then I'm being crabby.  I often feel like she's correcting what I do.  I'll put things away, only to find them totally reorganized the next day.  It drives me nuts.  Or I'll put something in the dishwasher and she'll redo it.  There's nothing malicious in it.  It's just two people doing things differently.  It's just that I have a hard time letting her do things her way.  She complains that I have to have everything my way, and she doesn't understand that half the time I'm biting my tongue because I'm letting her do things her way. 

Hops, when I say discipline, it's more a way of letting M know when he's out of line.  I have a habit of letting people walk all over me, M included.   She doesn't spank or put him in time out.  Mostly she complains about his sometimes bratty behavior, which tends to make me feel guilty because he's being bratty.  She lets me be mom, but she's helping me be a better mom, I guess is what I should have said.  She's really good with kids.  I'm not.

I'm just venting.  Maybe it's all in my head.  Still, I cringe at times when I say or do something that I know would have gotten a negative reaction from my mom.  I don't always know how H will react, and that scares me.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

ann3

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008, 01:07:27 PM »
Hi Tay,

I read your post to me & it's difficult for me to comment on your relationship because I'm not a psyc professional.  But, what does strike me is that you feel triggered by H, which causes you to feel fear & anxiety and that reminded me of the book.  Glad you got it.

Please start reading from the begining, since the material builds, and then you will get to Chapter 6: Identifying Your Symbols & Triggers.  I think this is the chapter where examples of couples triggering each other begins.  In fact, looking at my notes, IMO, the 1st para of chapter 6 is the thesis of the book. 

I'm now reading Ch. 7: The Art of Self Observation, which, among other things talks about how symbols cause us to feel fear; again, your description of spilling the nails and how you fear H's reaction (because it triggers your memories of your M's reaction) remind me of both chapters 6 & 7, but especially 7.

So, please read some of the book and let us know what you think.

love,
ann

sKePTiKal

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 01:22:36 PM »
Hey Tay...

I hear ya - I've been through this quite a bit of the same, with my hubby. Not that I have any definite help - mind you... not sure we've made all that much progress, to tell the truth. But I do know that your difficulty - those feelings - are very, very normal given what you've lived through in what should've been your most intimate, secure relationship.

And it IS hard to explain this to someone who has never experienced it. Hubby and I are just now beginning to talk our way through some of this. It was hardest for me, to admit that I wasn't Wonder Woman - able to take on everything (including inappropriate responsibility) and just tough it out; to be open and vulnerable - to take that risk, again. This is still most definitely a work in progress.

Ann's book recommendation sounds quite helpful (I might be checking it out, too!). But I think this is something you definitely want to mention to your T and start working on - you, on your own, and then also with H. Might help speed up and smooth out the process...
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

tayana

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2008, 05:11:49 PM »
Quote
It was hardest for me, to admit that I wasn't Wonder Woman - able to take on everything (including inappropriate responsibility) and just tough it out; to be open and vulnerable - to take that risk, again. This is still most definitely a work in progress.

Amber, I had this exact same problem.  I still have it.  My partner lost her job and elected to start watching kids at home to save us the daycare money for M for the summer.  Yet, I still feel guilty because I'm not home helping with the daily chores of laundry, cleaning, taking care of the dogs and the kid, etc.  I even feel guilty when she buys groceries. 

I feel like I should be able to do it all.  I feel like I should be able to be supermom, be the super girlfriend who never forgets anything, come home cook a fabulous meal, clean the house, spend some time with my family, write, and get up in the morning to go to work.  Forget sleeping.  Forget doing things I enjoy.  I should be able to do all of those things because that's my responsibility.  Unfortunately, I've learned I can't do everything.  Rather, I can, but at the cost of my health.  It was so hard for me to be able to trust H enough to say, "I'm okay with this decision."  It took weeks for me to even bring up the idea.  I'm still struggling a little with the idea of it being "our" money and "our" house, etc.   For so long, I've had to be so guarded about those things, that being able to be open and honest is very strange.

I had a hard time letting H help me out, and an even harder time giving M responsibilities.  I didn't like seeing him upset because he had to take out the trash or go clean up after the dogs.  I've gotten disgusted before and just cleaned everything myself because I didn't want to listen to him complain.  It's really  hard for me to not feel guilty when H cooks a meal or when she does my laundry.  A part of me doesn't like having that control taken away.  My mom had that control once and used it against me.  H doesn't understand why I expect the same of her.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

changing

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Re: Question about moving away from the N
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2008, 05:20:13 PM »
Hi Tay-

This is such a good subject (as always- you handle the practical hurdles mindfully and I learn a lot) I am not divorced yet so am not seeing anyone, but I have a pattern...My husband did not cook any meals, never once used the washing machine or dryer, never shopped,cleaned, never helped with the animals, etc...He went to a job where he was catered to, and came home to the same... I hated to ask, and when I did I got a big "negatory"!!!!

This is important, and I will follow your posts...

Love,

Changing