Author Topic: When Words Won't Work  (Read 4551 times)

Certain Hope

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2008, 11:46:49 PM »
Gjazz, I'm so sorry. I really can't even imagine...  don't think I'd ever be able to see him again, after something like that.

Were you still in the family home when this happened? I mean, were you forced to have ongoing contact with your father afterward?

And I'm sorry... if you have said, I've missed it, but if you don't mind saying - are you male or female?

Well, I have more questions than anything and I don't know whether you are even of a mind to tackle those. My own situation is so ordinary compared to yours, that I don't know whether you'll want to continue discussing... so I'll wait to hear back from you.

Carolyn


gjazz

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2008, 12:55:29 AM »
I'm female.  I have no problem discussing any of this rather colorful past.  I was 14--still in the family home after this took place, though I didn't find out about it until twenty years later--despite the fact that my older brother caught him in the act and stopped him.  Ours was a big house of many big secrets--one of which, I believe but cannot prove, was that my father's own father killed his first wife.  Or, if you wish to go with the official story, she passed away suddenly in his car on the way to the hospital of "appendicitis," leaving my grandfather free to marry his pregnant secretary.  She had refused him a divorce because she was Catholic.  There was an immediate cremation and no death certificate--nor was there a birth certificate for my aunt, born seven months later, something she didn't learn until she first applied for a passport in her fifties.  In my F's case, the bottom line was he wanted a divorce and all the money.  Not very original.  My mother comes from an old world sort of family and so, yes, to this day my father is formally invited to holiday celebrations and the like.  At her home.  And he attends.  Past unpleasantness is not discussed.  His current wife is the same age as my younger brother.  She attends also, of course, but as my mother never remarried (go figure) he sits at the head of the table.  Surreal?  Well we're used to it.  My mother and I are quite close (I have three brothers but no sisters), a result of living with a misogynist sociopath and surviving.  Sometimes we get together and worry about his current wife (his second one became an alcoholic, ended up in a mental hospital and now, I believe, lives with nuns in Massachusetts).  But she's made of pretty stern stuff and he's older now, in his sixties.  Not the terror he once was.  My brothers have a really hard time now--they are all so dedicated to being men completely unlike their father, and I think that's hard, not being able to respect him or turn to him ever for advice or guidance.  I got used to it long ago, because he loathes females, but they held out hope into adulthood.

Certain Hope

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2008, 10:00:32 AM »
(((((Gjazz)))))  that is so wild. I feel so bad for you and your brothers... and your mother, to be so bound by... custom ? tradition ?... that he's still seated as head, in the place of power and honor. 
Is his current wife aware of all these things?
Even with just the very small amount of dysfunction within my own family home, which involved no blatant abuse, I've struggled to come to terms with - what is normal?
As a miniscule example - the perfectionism with which I grew up - has had the effect of leaving me always unsure, out of touch with - how much is enough? how hard must I work and how much must I complete before I might rest? And how bad or disordered is it okay to let stuff get before I should get myself moving to tackle it again?
That is so lame, but the only example of which I can think right now, in order to ask you...

What question or questions still trouble you?

Carolyn

gjazz

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2008, 12:08:57 PM »
I relate to your perfectionism.  My mother has that streak (this may seem odd, given the above) and I have it a bit too.  Tradition, custom...let's call it "etiquette."  Really, that's what drivers her.  Propriety.  And also, in fairness, a sense of decency and genuine love for her family.  I'd say his current wife does not know any of this--because everything she hears has been passed through The Filter. 

Regarding questions: not many.  I come here because I find it helpful to read posts from people who have lived with similar dynamics.  I spent so many years as an emotional wreck, but certainly never let that show (improper), finally I moved away, let myself feel all the things I needed to, moved on to THINKING about it all--making sense of him--which for me, took the power back, away from him.  Where I am now is moving past blaming him for things wrong in my life now.  He made a victim of me as a child; I'll be damned if he makes one of me as an adult.

And you know what?  This may sounds really gallows but it's not, entirely: my family's story would make as good a comedy as a tragedy.  It IS wild.  And at times, freaking hilarious.

CB123

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2008, 12:40:22 PM »
And you know what?  This may sounds really gallows but it's not, entirely: my family's story would make as good a comedy as a tragedy.  It IS wild.  And at times, freaking hilarious.


Oh, I get it, Gjazz! 

My kids and I have that same dark humor.  It's sure helpful sometimes.

CB
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

gjazz

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2008, 01:50:47 PM »
If I couldn't laugh, I'd have lost my mind.  My mom laughs now, looking back, too--at times we both end up with tears running down our cheeks.  Comedy is borne of tragedy.  And laughter can be healing.  Glad you have it in your life too, CB!

nogadge

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2008, 02:46:20 PM »
wow! Nogadge

Certain Hope

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2008, 07:30:31 PM »
Thanks, Gjazz.

I seem to have lost the tragedy>comedy link, somewhere along the way.

When NPD-ex was still in the picture, my kids and I did try to laugh at some of his antics, because... yeah, it was either get hilarious or go bonkers.

But growing up, my Dad always tended to make everything into a joke (unless it was something important to him  :shock:), which... I can see the value of it, in moderation, but also it kept me from learning how to process alot of feelings which could have better been approached with a pair of listening ears and some tender caring.

eek... snapping out of it now... taking myself too seriously here, I can feel it.
Thanks for the wake-up!

Carolyn

gjazz

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2008, 10:57:06 PM »
Not taking yourself too seriously--my NF did and does EXACTLY the same thing.  Everything's a joke.  That way, he's never called on anything--if you do, "sheesh, learn to take a joke." (as long as it's on you, right?)

The key is distance: I'd never laugh at someone in pain.  But I know, from having been in pain, to laugh at elements of the situation later--the absurdity, the waste, the foolishness.  It's a way of looking at the world, maybe even an extension of the old "accept what you cannot change" dictum.  And go one further: turn it around.  There's a time for immersing yourself in the pain.  And a time to rise above it.  And a time to turn it all around and use it as fuel.

dandylife

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2008, 11:16:30 PM »

--

"What doesn't kill you makes you stranger." The Joker, Batman: The Dark Knight

 :lol:

Dandylife
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gjazz

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2008, 11:20:59 PM »
And stranger--in my creative line of work--is a very good thing.  Exactly, dandylife!

The key is doing what works for you.  What works for me might never work for someone else.  But I wouldn't give up being able to look back and laugh for an extra twenty years on this earth.  Or jewels, if that's what you're into.

Certain Hope

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2008, 10:47:59 AM »
Gjazz,

Thank you again. You got me thinking about this and I can see at least part of what (I think) has happened.

I thought I'd been able to dismiss most of the nonsense involved with NPD ex-husband... and, to a lesser extent, my previous husband - my childrens' dad - who is a child abuser.

I can laugh at a good portion of those messes... as you've said - the absurdity, the waste and foolishness. Admittedly, laughing at the past is alot easier when this sort of toxicity has been  encountered in casual aquaintances, and not within the sanctuary of inner life, but... yeah, I see.

Anyhow, where I was going with this is - - seems like I haven't really gotten over the horrors with these men nearly so much as I've effectively transferred the bulk of the baggage from those messes over into my parents' camp. In other words, feels like I've blamed my parents for the lot of it...  and that's why the tragedy has never converted to comedy - - - because I'm still holding them responsible for who I am now.
Yikes. I'm doing it to myself by refusing to grow up in that most basic area, I think!

In the little book How To Be An Adult, David Richio writes a wonderful summary of the Declarations of Healthy Adulthood. The very first item on the list is:
I accept full responsibility for the shape my life has taken.

Well... I have not. But now I choose to... because I want to see the comedy, too... and to release the creativity which has been dammed up for so long.
It's about time!

Carolyn

gjazz

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2008, 11:31:49 AM »
I could never see humor in child abuse, nor animal abuse.  I cannot stand bullies but they are, to me, cowards, and generally adults acting out like children.  I don't mean it's possible to look back and see humor in every situation or laugh at everything that occurred.  But I do think it's possible to channel some of the resulting anger in another direction.  If that makes sense!

ann3

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2008, 12:03:05 PM »
- seems like I haven't really gotten over the horrors with these men nearly so much as I've effectively transferred the bulk of the baggage from those messes over into my parents' camp. In other words, feels like I've blamed my parents for the lot of it..

Hi Carolyn,
I completely agree with the transfer of baggage from ex-N to our N parents.  Based on what I've read, we picked an N spouse/N lover because we were raised by N parents. We did this because we saw/felt the Nness of our parents in our N spouse/N lover and so we were attracted to the familiar.  "Normal" (non-Nness) did not feel familiar, so we did not choose "normal" N spouses/N lovers.

For me, this transfer of baggage is not about blaming my N parents (because they probably didn't know they were Ns), but rather finding the source for Nism in my life.  This transfer of baggage puts Nism into a big picture, from which I can step back and see how & where Nism originated in my life.

gjazz,
I'm sorry for all the pain you went thru.  I share your tragic-comedy/surrealism viewpoint.  Are you familiar with the writer Samuel Beckett?  He is my favorite absurd black humorist.  Gjazz, you sound extremely well adjusted to all the insanity, which seems to continue to the present day.  I'm sure you're not unscathed, but you sound very balanced and wise.

ann


« Last Edit: June 29, 2008, 12:20:25 PM by ann3 »

gjazz

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Re: When Words Won't Work
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2008, 02:37:10 PM »
Hi Ann3:

I do know Samuel Beckett.  I haven't read any of his stuff for at least fifteen years--maybe I should go back and revisit him.  Thanks for your kind words.  I agree with Carolyn here, too: there's power in saying my life is my responsibility.  There's freedom in saying the future is mine to design my way.  And while I know how frustrating and miserable it is when you feel you can't break free of past abuse, for me happiness comes with taking the reins away from people who would hurt me.