Author Topic: The ever-present volcano!  (Read 5109 times)

Anika

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The ever-present volcano!
« on: September 09, 2003, 11:02:59 AM »
Hi, everyone. As most of you know, I have had a wonderful couple of months with my N-mom. I am dating someone she approves of (for now) and he has a little girl. I posted about them in another forum entitled From one N to another.

My mother calls either my boyfriend or myself on a daily basis. She has even volunteered to watch “our” child while we were building our new deck. She is very interested in my b/f’s little girl and has become a wealth of advise about how I should raise her and what not. My mother is EXTREMELY good with children (as long as they are not her own) and I value her opinion.

The problem is this: I know for a fact that underneath her all her compassion, advise, and assistance there is a very sick person lurking in the shadows. I believe she is sincere about wanting to help me and “my child” but I know that there is a dormant demon somewhere just waiting for the hibernation season to be over so it can rear its ugly head. I’m sure she isn’t even aware of it.

This period of “good behavior” will go on for several more months and then I will inevitably do something minor to disappoint her (like have an opinion of my own) and she will withdraw all of her support. I will be heartbroken and devastated and my “daughter” won’t understand.

I will be reminded of all her efforts and generosity in an effort to make me feel guilty for my unacceptable desire to live my own life. Weeks, even months, will pass without word from her and then the cycle will begin all over again.

But for now all is well. The grass is green, the birds are singing, and the flowers are in full bloom as I awate the inevitable eruption from the volcano that will never be silenced. :cry:
"When 40-million people believe in a dumb idea it's still a DUMB IDEA!"

CC

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The ever-present volcano!
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2003, 11:34:42 AM »
Anika, Anika, be careful of the time-bomb ticking.  I am glad you are feeling happy, but I fear you are being romanced while you are becoming more emmeshed.  Perhaps you can find a way to become more independent before it happens - take steps NOW so that it is on your terms, not hers. You are feeling safe now, now would be a good time to tap into that power. Protect yourself.  Then you may actually be able to keep the peace during the transition.   Are you using any boundary methods?
CC - 'If it sucks longer than an hour, get rid of it!'

Anika

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Boundary Methods?
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2003, 12:34:09 PM »
I am unfamiliar with that phrase, although I believe I know what it means. I may even know some of them, but I am interested in hearing your ideas too.

Yes, I am all too familiar with being "romanced" by my N-mom. Each time it has happened I have vowed not to let it happen again.

This time is different, though. I am armed: with knowledge. I KNOW what is wrong with her and I am not under the influence of any illusions of normalcy. I know that my mother is sick and will always be sick, but can't I at least enjoy the few moments when she doesn't act sick?
"When 40-million people believe in a dumb idea it's still a DUMB IDEA!"

clara

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Hey, that's MY mother!!
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2003, 02:22:19 PM »
You could be describing my mother in this post.  She used to call every day, and was overly involved with my parentling, my life.  But then, every few months, BANG!  She would start crying over the phone about how I have been abusing her!!  For example, she would say that talking to her sister (my aunt) about my kids was disrespectful to her (my mother) because afert all SHE (my mother) was the grandmother of my kids, and this was like taking that away from her.  

Or she would tell me about how my husband (er, my narcisssitic husband I will admit) doesn't treat her with enough respect (well, duh, you can NEVER get enough resect going between two full-blown narcissists).  

When expecting our third child, she told me that she and my N-father decided to go away the week the baby was born (they are retired and can go any time), so they wouldn't be able to stay with the kids while we went into the hospital.  "Anyways," she said, "that''s how YOU treated ME when (first child) was born. You didn't even want me around the first day!!"

Yes, my mother loves to call and give advice.  But all the conversations are about her, or her advice, or her problems.  If I scantly mention my work, or things I am doing, she has no interest and changes the topic abruptly.  My mother is a very jealous, critical woman.  Sure, I could stay on friendly terms with her, if I was willing to provide her with an endless supply of selflessness on my part.

I also figured out over time that the more of myself that I gave to my mother and the closer I got, the more I was setting myself up for her vicious attacks.   She would tell me off in front of my kids, leave mean voicemails, and once she even mailed me a hurtful note.  Name calling, false accusations, distortions, you name it.

On those "nice times" that you described, I learned over time that nice times with her are only had if the conversation is about her. We never, ever enjoyed nice times where she would genuinely care about me.

If it helps any, even when she is superficially pleasant and nice to me I just silently say to her (in my head) "You are a self-centred, self-absorbed woman. You have never been there for me as a child, and now that you are a senior you only want to use me for your own gain.  You simply don't care about me. Only about yourself"

Over time, I just started caring less and less about my mother, and finding excuses not to talk to her on the phone.  Now she phones every few days, and we see each other about every two weeks (we live in same city).  Yes I feel sorry for her, but there is very little that I am willing to do for a woman who cares very little about me, my well-being, or my feelings.  And I certainly don't want to set myself up again for her vindictive, irrational, and unpredictable tirades.

I hope this helps. I think I feel a little better for venting anyway.

Anika

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Wow! You really needed to vent, didn't you!
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2003, 12:08:31 PM »
:lol: Well, Clara, you had quite a bit on your chest, didn't you! I'm glad you were able to get it all off.

Yes, my mother is getting a bit anoying. She is now calling my b/f at home eVERY DAY while I'm at work! She has an endless curiosity about my life and our lives (the 3 of us).

"You don't mind if I call you just to check in on you, do you?" See how I worded that? That is a form of verbal manipulation. It's kindove like implied compliance.

Anyway, I don't dare tell her that her calling is getting excessive because she will withdraw from me totally and throw my insolence in my face later. Instead we are going to get an answering maching and begin screening our calls. Having dealt with her for so long I too have become a master manipulator. I pride myself on being able to rearrange the situation with my mother to suite my needs and still not piss her off.

Hey, we do what we have to do in order to survive, don't we?

When and if she starts her crap I have no qualms with putting her in "time out" until she can control herself. I am empowered by the fact that I KNOW what is wrong with her and I am working diligently to perfect the art of dealing with her sickness. I have the upper hand because I am educated about our relationship whereas her thought processes are twisted and child-like.

Insidently, how did you end up with a N-mom, a N-dad, AND a N-husband? :?:
"When 40-million people believe in a dumb idea it's still a DUMB IDEA!"

Anonymous

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The ever-present volcano!
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2003, 01:11:12 PM »
Dear Anika,

I was going to reply to you regarding boundary "methods" but before I did you gave me a perfect opportunity in your additional post to show you where a boundary could (should) be used for your own protection.

Incidentally, "boundary methods"  was not psychological term that I picked up from anywhere, it is just my own expression for describing the action of setting boundaries with someone that is in your inner "circle".

Quote
Anyway, I don't dare tell her that her calling is getting excessive because she will withdraw from me totally and throw my insolence in my face later. Instead we are going to get an answering maching and begin screening our calls.



I think its great that you are attempting to create some space between you for protection.   I ask you to reconsider on whose terms you are doing it.  Are you not going out of your way now, to accomodate her excessive calling, by spending money on something you would not normally have purchased, while not actually cutting down on the phone calls? !! :wink:

What are you really accomplishing by doing this except postponing your direct contact with her??  She cannot catch you off guard as much, but you will still get floods of calls.  Let me explain.

I have voice mail.  Instead of discouraging my mother from making phone calls, it has given her even more of an opportunity to call with her controlling, manipulative comments and "suggestions" for day to day life - and the N's are in power because you have no voice with which to defend or stop it from! though you are not engaging in direct conversation, the poisonous words have now been allowed to be said unaddressed.  No BOUNDARY has been set by hiding behind the voice mail or answering machine. You have not communicated to her that the status quo is NOT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU.  They are able to ramble on and on with whatever they feel like saying, with no argument!

Eventually, I had to confront it and set the boundary - and this is what I am referring to.  And it was risky, just as you surmised.  You risk the spewing anger and abandonment -you used the word withdrawal- (withholding love or punishment) of her being angry that you have determined that something doesn't feel good for you.  You risk the insolence being thrown in your face.  But you can hold your head up high that you stood your ground and did what was best for YOU, not for her.  And you can choose not to allow the insolence to touch you.  It is HER insolence, not yours.

This is an example of boundary setting that worked on this very subject with my mother.

"mom, I really appreciate everything that you've been doing for me and the fact that we have been close lately. I look forward to hearing from you and talking about our week. However, I need your understanding that I am going to have to limit our phone calls to twice a week.  I am having trouble focusing on the other things I have to take care of every day and am limiting my interruptions so that I am more productive. It would be very helpful if we could do this. What days would you like to talk?"

Now, mind you.... This was effective, but not without a fight.  First, her knee jerk reaction was to say, "OH, I'M BOTHERING YOU NOW, that's okay I'll never call you again!!"  and after a few phone calls back and forth, she managed, in a very wounded way, to accept the boundary that I had set.  And, don't think I didn't feel guilty. she lives alone, and has no one else to talk to.  But I stayed true to my feelings, and when she tried to manipulate me with guilt and anger, I simply kept saying (like a broken record, trying to convince myself more than her)  "I'm sorry you feel that way mom.  I really want us to continue a good relationship but this is the best I can do right now.  I have to take care of myself."

She pouted for a week even after agreeing with my terms, and didn't call me at all.  I worried about her, and that something happened to her I would feel responsible.  But then I would stop myself, reminded myself that "I am not responsible for her pain".  Then when I called her the following Friday (which is the day we usually spend together), I acted as nothing had happened, and said "so, what would you like to do today?"  We went out that day as usual and everything with the phone calling has been fine since!!!

Anika, my relationship with my mother is far from healthy.  Boundary setting is just a step, and I've only set a few, in very specific areas.  But the more I practice it, the empowered I become.   It is nearly impossible at first, because all of our lives we have relied on defense mechanisms to survive - REACTION instead of ACTION.  

If I may be bold,  I see you in me.  I see, wittingly or not, that you have a little bit of a need toward your mom like I do, and so that you are afraid of embracing new behaviors to protect yourself - you are relying on your defense mechanisms that have helped you survive thus far instead.  Are you reacting to her excessive calling, when you could be more pro-active?  When she is calling to "check on you", is she really - or is she  fullfilling her own need to be emmeshed with you?  

I know what you mean about learning how to manipulate the N back.  Use this skill to your advantage in your PROACTION, not REACTION.  Why not say "mom, I appreciate you wanting to check on us, but let's assume that unless its an emergency, such as (give examples here, because otherwise EVERYTHING is an emergency)  :lol:  we don't really need to check on each other, right?".  Make her feel like its partly her decision, and at the same time you are setting YOUR BOUNDARY.

I don't know if this will work for you - but I bet if you tried, you would be surprised.  I am not an expert, but you asked me about boundary setting and this is what I've learned, in therapy, and it seems to be working fairly well as long as I stick to it.

You said you are more empowered now with your knowledge - absolutely true.  Can you take it a step further, and use this power to ASK FOR WHAT YOU NEED?  

You are in my thoughts. Good luck.

CC

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The ever-present volcano!
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2003, 01:13:19 PM »
Anika, That was me, CC aboveb (guest), sorry AGAIN forgot to log in..
CC - 'If it sucks longer than an hour, get rid of it!'