Shame as Humiliation

[sKePTiKal]

Hi SS:

Thank you again for this thread - it's become of the utmost importance to me. I agree with TT, that humilation is the root of all the other symptoms and coping strategies that we (collectively) have developed to deal with this. I too, feel that there were so many humiliations that they all simply accumulated and overwhelmed me. The fashion show story is only the 2nd most extreme example (first, being mother's denial of the rape...).

I was able to list 13 humilations, before I hit the one that for me - is the place to start working. I was humiliated for being my own, injured, dissociated, emotional self. I was made to feel that I was mentally unstable - all because my mother didn't understand emotions and wouldn't even let me know the facts of what had happened to me. How I felt was so inconvenient and uncomfortable for her - that I had no choice but to "split" those feelings (and memories) off - as if they didn't happen.

But the fact is, I felt like such an abomination to my own mother - and so unimportant to her - and those feelings were so intense, overwhelming, and UNSAFE (would only get me more abuse) - that I turned them on the only target available to me: my self. That was the final "hook" my mother needed to begin dumping the REST of the feelings that she should've felt... into me. I began to hate myself so much - for not being smart enough, strong enough - to resist this, that I wanted to die. Instead, the "split" happened - effectively the same sort of thing... and "I" was this being that had to "pretend" to be me... because I'd already experienced the fact that no one was going to help me; no one in the 60's would interfere in the "business" of any family - and my mother did all she could to keep it this way.

Compassion does heal these kinds of deep wounds. I think it takes many, many repetitions and time. And also an awareness of owning what is MINE emotionally and not owning, what rightfully belongs to someone else. The humilation rightfully belongs to my mother - though she's not able to feel it - and not me; not Twiggy. Not any more.

And now, it's simply a matter of finding out what ELSE Twiggy - my unconscious self wants. Retribution is out of the question - she doesn't know what she did is wrong; she doesn't even admit the facts of what happened to me - 40 years later. It wouldn't heal me and Twiggy. But I can, within myself, express all my outrage and sadness and the injustice of what I experienced as her daughter. I can put my mother in a mental anger room, until the emotions burn themselves out - and let all the emotions go, once and for all.

And I can stop pretending to be someone I'm not; I can BE Twiggy... and I won't be humilated for it anymore.

[Gaining Strength]

PR - Thank you for your honest and powerful work and for sharing it.  I can only read a part at a time as I feel such empathy that the pain is actually a little overwhelming.  I need to process it myself, I connect strongly.  I admire your ability to open up your wound and strip the scab off right here in public.  The wound is not humiliating, it is how you were made to feel about your wound that humiliated and I feel initially the fear and then the rage that that was done to you.  Thank you so much for your postings.  They encourage me to continue plumbing. 

[LilyCat]

For everyone,

I researched pastoral abuse of power during my lunch hour and found this (below). I thought of you, ShameSlayer, and Phoenix, and everyone, and thought you would want to read this:

"In some small way, I’d like to affect the death of the deadly cycle of shame.  No human is born with it.  Shame is acquired from the outside.   What abusers actually do is rob their victim of all self-esteem & dump deadly shame in its place."

(from a website on clergy abuse; this is in one of the victims' stories)

You are also so courageous, and so inspiring. (That's from me, not the website.)

[LilyCat]

err, there was a slight typo on my part - I meant to type "you are all so courageous.."

[Gaining Strength]

"In some small way, I’d like to affect the death of the deadly cycle of shame.  No human is born with it.  Shame is acquired from the outside.   What abusers actually do is rob their victim of all self-esteem & dump deadly shame in its place."

Sometimes some words, that on the surface seem so obvious and inocuous strike so accurately at the heart that they are piercing.  This concept seems so simple and so straightforward but boy does it have power. Through this 2nd sentence I see the bait and switch that was my life and the life of so many others.  Thanks Lily Cat.

[gjazz]

This is going to be unpopular.  But I'm going to voice it all the same.  I believe we are all born with the capacity for shame, as we are born with the capacity for empathy.  I believe that without the capacity for shame, we have no capacity to achieve our highest potential as human beings.  Shame, that is, as it relates to behavior we wish we had not engaged in.  Things we wish we had not said.  If there is no shame--I ask you honestly--shouldn't the people who mistreated us as children and/or adults, ideally, feel shame for that?  Not WILL they, but should they?   And if they could, wouldn't that signal hope?

[sKePTiKal]

gJazz... I agree with most of your ideas here. I'm not totally convinced that everyone is born with the capacity for shame, though. Nature vs Nurture... or some of both? If the scientists are correct that chemical imbalances are responsible for emotional, psychological disfunctions... that human doesn't have much of a choice or much control over his/her situation.

I also agree that abusers SHOULD feel shame for mistreating others, but I've given up hope that most of them care enough to try to change. Most are so self-unaware... and don't acknowledge that other people are even REAL or entitled to feelings different from theirs... so they are almost genetically indifferent to their impact on others. Technically, I think it's possible for even people like this to change; but the rarity of examples puts it very close to the same category as "miraculous".

My opinion... only an opinion. I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn Express, played a doctor on TV, or have anything to back up my opinion except my own personal experience...

[LilyCat]

SS, I'm glad it reached you. I thought it might. They are very powerful words, indeed. Consider it a greeting card from me.

gjazz, I think you are correct. I think we need the capacity for shame; it's what keeps most of society in check, if you will. If we had no capacity for shame we wouldn't care how we treated others and we'd probably have a pretty lawless society. ...I think there is a reason behind the creation of  all (each) human feeling.

But there is shame and there is shame. Societal shame that encourages right behavior is very different from shame that is foisted upon someone for false reasons, to abuse, control, or for self-satisfaction. That is very wrong, obviously.

Glad you spoke up and took that risk. Good example for us all!

[sKePTiKal]

SS: how goes it with your work on humiliation? Making headway now?

I wondered if your experience was similar to mine. I dove into the emotion for a day, yesterday. And the more I acknowledged the emotion - let it be - and let my feelings guide my thoughts... the more I could feel a release of the original emotional wounding pain.

Many things now seem possible to me today - that were such a struggle before addressing this old, unacknowledged feeling. And the relationship between me and unconscious self is also changing... things happening at the same time: breaking free of the idea of being imprisoned in old habits, routines & beliefs... and also a settling into place (proper place) of the feelings & memories of my personal "history".

It will still take a lot of repetitions before the old habits change, I think. But now there is a separation between the old emotions and the habits themselves.

Hope you're getting some of this kind of "relief" too!

[Gaining Strength]

I am making great progress.  I toggle back and forth between feeling the pain and using something akin to CBT to (not repress the memory) but to ease the pain.  I am astonished at how I have overlooked the stomach pain that I have lived with for years and years.  I can't imagine how I just ignored it - it is a huge pain.  When I don't feel stomach pain I often feel the shock feeling  of anxiety - the sense that I just put my finger in the socket.  I have such a propensity towards self-criicism.  I have known that for a while but I was not aware of when it was happening, now I am.  That's the difference.

I am interested in seeing where this will take me.

[Ami]

Dear SS
 I started having problems eating(stomach pain) when Scott was born(21 years ago). I remember back to not being able to eat at that time. Alice Millers book, 'Your Body Never Lies" really helped me.
 She says that if you stuff emotions, they will come out in your mind and body.
 It has helped me more than any single thing I have ever done. It gave me the courage to face the truth about how I really felt.
 You are doing so,so well. I am inspired by your progress           Love   Ami


((((((((((SS)))))))))))

[sKePTiKal]

SS, I think you're right - where this path takes you is going to be very, very interesting!

For now, my set of circumstances... Twiggy's situation... has taken me down my own path to a surprising, unexpected destination. It's diverging from our shared experiences, so I'm going to revive the Re-Integration thread as a place to post that process... those realizations. (I don't want to muddy up your journey... or track all over your path - those milestones are very, very important!)

I think I've found my own antidote to humiliation, shame, the other feelings of rage, of hopelessness... powerlessness. I wish with all my heart that you find your antidote soon, too.

[Gaining Strength]

I am very interested in reading about your antidote.  I am glad you are going to continue to work on this.  Your posts here have been so helpful and pushed me forward.  Some time ago - in late spring - I posted a thread about working together with someone on this stuff - and that is what has happened here.  It makes a difference.  Thanks.

Ami - I have the stomach issue too.  What does Miller say about stomach pain - what wounding resides in the stomach?

[LilyCat]

SS,

I had a thought while working through some of my own stuff the last few days, and thought it might something for you. (I've been feeling due shame over a few contributions I made to the N pastor mess.)

...I feel comfortable saying this to you, because we have shared bits of our faith journey.

Shame, like every other feeling, is a gift from God. The appropriate shame that we feel -- when we know we truly have done something wrong in God's eyes -- if accepted, leads us to repentance. Repentance is the open door to God's love and mercy.

Inappropriate shame -- that unwarranted shame that others force upon us, as your mother does --
can also be a path to repentance, but it takes two brave people. The person who has been shamed can tell the shamer about it in an emotionally honest way; and the inflicter of the shame, if willing to listen, accept responsibility, and be empathetic, can take the shame upon them, appropriately so, and ask forgiveness of the shamee and repent to God. This, again, opens the door for God's love and mercy.

I'm not defending the people who shame and humiliate others -- not at all -- and I am NOT saying that these people are necessarily (even usually) willing to listen and bear accountability ... but it can happen.

I think the shame of the person who has been wronged, in particular, gets God's ear and tenderness. God loves the humble and the meek and the oppressed.

So, there are my thoughts for the day.

(((((SS)))))), and

Peace in Christ,

Lily

[Gaining Strength]

Lily Cat - You make two good points.  The word shame is quite ambiguous and we use it in every day life in a variety of ways.  You distinguish between two meanings by using the modifiers "appropriate" and "inappropriate".  Many experts refer to "appropriate" shame as guilt and Bradshaw refers to "inappropriate" shame as "toxic shame". 

I am definitely referring to toxic shame rather than something that leads to something positive.  The issue of shame is certainly complicated and your post does a good job of highlighting that.  Thank you.

I think "shame" or any offense would be an opportunity for repentance and with that healing.  Unfortunately the problems caused by inappropriate or toxic shame can actually be intensified when the person doing the shaming or humiliating does not  or would not participate in such a process.  In my case, neither of my parents would be interested in or willing to entertain any thought of owning or even acknowledging their role - in fact the opposite is true - they have always and continue to hold me responsible for anything bad, negative or painful that has happened to me.  If something they did hurt me then I deserved it.  Not much room for any healing there.