is narcissism a disease or evil?

[Anonymous]

I just realized that we're probably not supposed to pass info from one support group to another? I dunno.  (How secure is the internet, anyway?)  Suffice it to say, it is the same back and forth type of word games that we are witnessing here, and it escelated into nasty language until 's' was removed from the group by the group owner.
Could be two different 's' posters, but maybe not, and I'm trying to save us any more pain.

[Lizbeth]

Appreciate your efforts, just the same.  Word salad is exhausting, I agree. A classic N attempt to gain control by confusion.   I'm sure we could recognize the style of language if you were allowed to post.  

I just realized that we're probably not supposed to pass info from one support group to another? I dunno.  (How secure is the internet, anyway?)  Suffice it to say, it is the same back and forth type of word games that we are witnessing here, and it escelated into nasty language until 's' was removed from the group by the group owner.
Could be two different 's' posters, but maybe not, and I'm trying to save us any more pain.

[capricorn2]

Hi guest

I really hope that "s" word you were referring to was not about about the "s" in my post.  If so, I will absolutely refraim from using it in all due respect to all posts.  The last thing I would wish to do is offend any posters - it is directed at the evil or N's ill at ease.
Cappi

[Lizbeth]

Capricorn, we're talking about a poster who uses the handle "s" because she used to be called "somebody" when she first posted on this board.

Hi guest

I really hope that "s" word you were referring to was not about about the "s" in my post.  If so, I will absolutely refraim from using it in all due respect to all posts.  The last thing I would wish to do is offend any posters - it is directed at the evil or N's ill at ease.
Cappi

[Anonymous]

Cappi,

We're talking about a poster from a while ago named SOMEBODY aka s now. Does that clear it up or maybe I'm the one not understanding

[got that right]

Lizbeth and Cappi,


Sorry, I was typing my reply when you had just posted yours!

Trollspotter, excellent idea. I think you should repost that suggestion several times if you think it would help. That's the best idea I've heard to date.

[Wildflower]

I'm with bunny when she says it's not worth getting engaged and yet it can be easy to get sucked in (me, too   ).  I'd been away from the board for a few months, so I think I missed the whole intro to Somebody/s - and it wasn't obvious at first what was happening.  So I really like the idea of following 's' posts with a warning, but I'm a little uneasy about the troll bit.

This is all quite N behavior, which, of course, will infuriate her yet again, but I'm sorry, it's true. Whether or not she's an N, this is how they behave.

I completely agree with this.  It really doesn't matter whether or not she's an N.  She's expressing N behavior and it's not good for anyone to engage in the word twisting that usually follows when someone responds to her.   Not really that good for her either.

But the bleeding heart in me keeps thinking about how I certainly picked up some nasty N habits from my parents, and as someone here said, the tough work is to to face these problems, deal with them, and move on.  So on the off chance that there's hope, but she just doesn't get it, maybe there's something we could say that would be just as much of a wall as N/T, but which is also meant to provide a warning to others while being constructive.  Too much to ask ? Maybe.  But maybe "Don't Engage" as the poster and "You've got to help yourself first."  Or maybe the content could be a link to that other forum suggested above.  Just a thought.


{Edit:Oh, and something that's clearly directed at "s".  As we've seen (sorry Cappi   ), it can get pretty confusing pretty fast.}

Wildflower

[Lizbeth]

That is also a good idea, wildflower, but I don't hold out much hope that you will crack her facade.  If she is not an N, she is pretty heavily invested in her denial and bristles at any suggestion that she is not facing her true issues or is behaving with the Narcissistic behavior she is blaming others for.  How can she allow herself to face what she is doing, she'd have to get rid of the GIGANTIC ELEPHANT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOM in order to do that.  

I'm with bunny when she says it's not worth getting engaged and yet it can be easy to get sucked in (me, too   ).  I'd been away from the board for a few months, so I think I missed the whole intro to Somebody/s - and it wasn't obvious at first what was happening.  So I really like the idea of following 's' posts with a warning, but I'm a little uneasy about the troll bit.

This is all quite N behavior, which, of course, will infuriate her yet again, but I'm sorry, it's true. Whether or not she's an N, this is how they behave.

I completely agree with this.  It really doesn't matter whether or not she's an N.  She's expressing N behavior and it's not good for anyone to engage in the word twisting that usually follows when someone responds to her.   Not really that good for her either.

But the bleeding heart in me keeps thinking about how I certainly picked up some nasty N habits from my parents, and as someone here said, the tough work is to to face these problems, deal with them, and move on.  So on the off chance that there's hope, but she just doesn't get it, maybe there's something we could say that would be just as much of a wall as N/T, but which is also meant to provide a warning to others while being constructive.  Too much to ask ? Maybe.  But maybe "Don't Engage" as the poster and "You've got to help yourself first."  Or maybe the content could be a link to that other forum suggested above.  Just a thought.


{Edit:Oh, and something that's clearly directed at "s".  As we've seen (sorry Cappi   ), it can get pretty confusing pretty fast.}

Wildflower

[Anonymous]

I'm with bunny when she says it's not worth getting engaged and yet it can be easy to get sucked in (me, too  ). I'd been away from the board for a few months, so I think I missed the whole intro to Somebody/s - and it wasn't obvious at first what was happening. So I really like the idea of following 's' posts with a warning, but I'm a little uneasy about the troll bit.  

Would just posting "Warning" instead of "Troll" be better? More benign? That would be ok.

I completely agree with this. It really doesn't matter whether or not she's an N. She's expressing N behavior and it's not good for anyone to engage in the word twisting that usually follows when someone responds to her. Not really that good for her either.

But the bleeding heart in me keeps thinking about how I certainly picked up some nasty N habits from my parents, and as someone here said, the tough work is to to face these problems, deal with them, and move on.

I think it safe to say we are all in our own struggle to eliminate the N voice inherited from our familiar Ns. It is part of the process, part of what our pain is, to free ourselves from the "N" infection. That is not what "s" is displaying. You were willing WF.

So on the off chance that there's hope, but she just doesn't get it, maybe there's something we could say that would be just as much of a wall as N/T, but which is also meant to provide a warning to others while being constructive. Too much to ask  ? Maybe. But maybe "Don't Engage" as the poster and "You've got to help yourself first."

I like "Don't Engage". N/T is just for the sake of simplicity.

 I think that it could be fairly agreed upon that there is substantial history of others coming to "s"s defense only to get the treatment I described in my first post.

Ignoring doesn't seem to satisfy the individual need that arises to say something, even when we know it is futile. Being able to take some action, one  we agree on, doing something where we feel we are doing something, might be the replacement needed to dispell the urge to   communicate to this individual.
My beleeding heart only goes so far. After watching a number of others being spurned, I am willing to try another tactic.

[Trollspotter]

Me, above.

[longtimelurker]

and only somebody's posts are inflammatory, right? no-one elses?

course if I defend her I'm in denial aren't I?

if I said :

"why don't you all take a couple of steps back,let it go, drop it"

"you can't tell me what to do" would be the response or something similar. "I'll post if I want"

a similar dynamic to the one involving somebody. everything she has said has been picked on. she has told what to do,where to go,where to post - my guess is she doesn't like it.
If I said "Neither do I" then I would be the next target.
Pick through everything I said, cut and past if you like, then question,question,question.
I really question if this board is about healing, as the most popular threads seems to be the ones like this, where everybody picks on somebody
I'll get flamed for that,now won't I?

[Trollspotter]

LTL,

I understand what you are saying. And your points are valid. What do you propose we do?

OK we can step back.

But I think many of us have come to the point of exhaustion with the circular conversations that we get drawn into, in the light of compassion. She has been offered much compassion, don’t you think? She has been spoken to with kindness by a number of posters, well-meaning to illuminate and invite her in. But it is then thrown in our face.

This person pisses on everything offered. This is not a person wanting to connect. You don’t see that?

You LTL are genuine. “S” is not. We know the difference.

Dealing with her in a proactive way may be a kindness. It is not meant to harm, but it a way for us to insist that we be treated right. Enough people here seem to feel this way - that this person is deliberately antagonistic.

It is allowable and I believe necessary to arm oneself at times, to have a strategy. We discuss here issues regarding our personal lives, exchanging ideas on  how to maneuver to our benefit and health, these relationships. Well we have a problem here, on the board, that needs to be addressed in the same way.

Hypothetically, if you knew for sure this person was a rabble rouser, would you then agree to this type of confrontation? I am asking this question just to see where you stand on this issue. Maybe you honestly don’t see the difference between her and you ( and/or others), the lack of sincerity that comes across from “S” to the rest of us.

Peace, friend, don’t be offended here, we are just needing to work this out, and maybe the means suggested stretches what you feel is decent.
 
Maybe S will come back, read all this and wise up.

[lizbeth as Guest]

I don't know what happened to you, LTL, but you are not like S.  I think you are identifying with her in some way, but I don't get the confusion and word salad and agenda and blame shifting and N behavior in your posts that we have seen in S' posts.  You seem like a very nice person to me.  

Lizbeth

and only somebody's posts are inflammatory, right? no-one elses?

course if I defend her I'm in denial aren't I?

if I said :

"why don't you all take a couple of steps back,let it go, drop it"

"you can't tell me what to do" would be the response or something similar. "I'll post if I want"

a similar dynamic to the one involving somebody. everything she has said has been picked on. she has told what to do,where to go,where to post - my guess is she doesn't like it.
If I said "Neither do I" then I would be the next target.
Pick through everything I said, cut and past if you like, then question,question,question.
I really question if this board is about healing, as the most popular threads seems to be the ones like this, where everybody picks on somebody
I'll get flamed for that,now won't I?

[capricorn2]

Hi guest/lizbeth

Thanks for clearing up the message with the original 's' problem - I am a very sensitive person and for that reason my desire is not to offend anyone as I have been offended by my ex N and N parents and families of origin.
My choice is to cut the N umbilical cords!!!
/cappi

[Anonymous]

LTL,

Maybe you're apprehensive that this group is going to boss people around and persecute them. If so, it's a natural fear which I share. But I think this is about "Somebody" being ID'd by many people here as a troll. She is trolling for drama, agitation and disruption. People will be sucked into this because it's human nature, and because of our early histories. There is no way to communicate reasonably with this type of poster as they get gratification from negative attention. I personally think it would be optimal if she were moderated out of here. But if she is not, I am open to the suggestions being put forth, not because I am angry and vengeful but because she has a chilling effect. Many people go away when she's around. Basically I think the point of a moderated group is to weed out trolls and/or abusive posts. Sadly, moderated groups can also become little principalities and dictatorships, so it's dicey when someone is banned from posting. Especially if it's for their viewpoint. "S" certainly has a different viewpoint. But the problem is more about style than content. The style (to me) is that of trolling.

I hear your apprehension and I am trying to differentiate between people unfairly turning on someone for being who they are, and people being frustrated and disrupted by a "troll." I hope it makes some sense.

bunny