is narcissism a disease or evil?

[Anonymous]

Hi Portia,

I'm skipping back to your response to my post...

Your thoughts about how does society deal with the 1% is really interesting.  Like, how do we deal with them without becoming like them or seeming like them to prevent them from threatening the survival of our community? (Saddam Hussein comes to mind.)  That is one thought that popped into my head reading your post.

Another one is: forgiveness doesn't remove the consequences that occur from the evil deed that must be remedied.  That is, let's say our neighbor murdered another neighbor.  This threatens the whole of the neighborhood.  The act must be confronted and dealt with.  That can include forgiveness but doesn't remove arresting the murderer, a trial with a jury of his peers, and the possibility of imprisonment.  It is, I suppose, possible to say "hey we know you can't help it, we forgive you buddy" but that doesn't make it any safer to let him back into the neighborhood.  Again, safety and survival are imperative.  

I like to think I have forgiven my psycho SIL, but I don't want to invite her to dinner.  

Peace, Seeker

[Portia]

Seeker, yes, 100%.

On forgiveness: did you see the part of the SA Truth & Reconciliation Commission hearings where Desmond Tutu was crying, weeping, because Winnie Mandala would not say she was sorry for what she had sanctioned? He was crying for her inhumanity. It was so sad, beyond sad. Incredible. I’ll never forget those images. Thanks for your post (((Seeker))) Protect and survive  P

[Anonymous]

Portia asked regarding my trying to understand people doing evil:  "Why? Seriously, why do you do this?"

Because it is part of empathizing.  Trying to understand is the first part.
I believe this is a good thing.  Not just to do for those who behave well but especially for those who behave badly.  A person who behaves badly may often need compassion in order to help them change their behaviour.

It is also necessary to do in order to help ourselves.  Trying to understand, having empathy and compassion toward our abusers helps to dissipate our anger and allows us to work toward forgiving.  Forgiving benefits us most, not the person forgiven.  It does not mean an acceptance of their behaviour, it simply means to be rid of anger and resentment.  It is part of healing.

And:  " Do you think you can change other people?"

No.  I am only able to change myself.  However, I can help others recognize the value and necessity for change sometimes.  It is then up to them, if they have the capability.  Some do.  Some don't.

And:  "S, how do you know that you can’t reach Bunny?  Aren’t you making a big assumption here? How do you know if someone has their ‘mind made up’ about you?"

By her responses to my posts, I have assumed this, yes.  She hasn't stated otherwise so that leads me to believe my assumption was correct.
Maybe I'm wrong.

And:  " How can you say that someone’s perception of your words is NOT TRUE? This is taking me, in my mind, straight back to your first thread here. Where you said that your child’s belief was NOT TRUE. Who are you to say what is true or not true in someone else’s head?"

My child's belief was formed by, not her own perceptions, but by what she was being told, that was not true, by my sister.  My child's false belief has been rectified.

Just as your perception, Portia, that you thought you had not been through enough abuse to justify your pain, was not true, and that, I hope, has been rectified too.    I tried to help you and I hope I did.

Who am I to try to correct my child's belief, formed by false information fed to her by a revengeful adult who had her own motives to cause harm as priority?  I am my child's mother and I love her.  I have an obligation to protect her and I did.  She is my priority.  I am my revengeful sister's sister.  She is high on my priority list and I am trying to understand her behaviour because I love her too.   I can't change her behaviour and she continues to behave in a similar fashion.

Who am I to try to help you?  I saw a chance to help and I try to do that when I see it.  I like to help others.

I wrote:  "I answered that question for you, in ramble."

Portia asked: "And your point is? Yep, you did answer me in Ramble. Does that mean I can’t ask again, for clarification? Or are you telling me off for asking again? What gives here? What’s the intention? You said you were leaving. You appear to be back. Clarification can be useful.

My point was to make it clear that you were asking a question that you already knew the answer to.

I wrote:  "By that, I mean, I feel like I have been reduced, my voice has been reduced to a tiny thing. "

Portia stated:  "It doesn’t sound tiny to me."

What I feel is being invalidated by this statement.

Portia  stated: "Your posts are strong and opinionated, to me..."

I have strong opinions.  My feelings are not my opinions.  They are two different things.  You have strong opinions too Portia.  And your feelings are valid.

Portia asked:  "And what do you mean “have been” and “has been” – note how this is happening to you, how you are not responsible for minimising your own voice."

This is happening to me.  I am not responsible for trying to crush my opinions or silence myself.

Portia:  "And if so, who? Us, presumably?"

It appears to be true.  First by criticism.  Then by hijacking.  Then by no more response.  Very effective.  Except I am answering your questions as best I can anyway because I agree with you, clarification can be useful.

Portia asked:  "Are you shaming us?"

No.  I'm pointing out what appears to be true.  Do you feel ashamed?
If so, it was not my intention to induce that feeling in you, nor am I able to remove it.  Possibly, it's a learned response?  Possibly a reaction?

Portia asked:  "You said you were leaving. It was your decision. And now you’re back. What happened? "

Yes.   Prior to leaving you had asked me to consider becoming a registered user.  I waited to see if there would be a second to that idea.  There was none.  I accepted that and decided maybe it was best to just go.  Then, I thought about it and wondered if I had been a bit hasty.  I asked myself afterward, did I leave because I felt rejected?  Do I really need your acceptance?  The answers are:  Yes and No.  Yes, I felt rejected but I wasn't counting your invitation or what seemed like an invitation.  Why not?  Then I realized, I don't need to be accepted to share what has helped me and to learn what I can.  I was making a decision due to my fear of rejection.  I try not to make decisions based on fear and I generally don't worry about being rejected.  Why was this suddenly so important.    I reconsidered and I decided to return.

I wrote: "I'm still trying to speak, regardless. I'm still trying to communicate and speak what I feel. I think I need to."

Portia asked:  "Why do you need to? Serious question."

I need to try to communicate and speak because I need to know to tried my best.  It is my habit in life to try my best and I am trying.  I feel good about myself when I try my best.  Another bull-headed thing I do.

I think we all need to speak what we feel and I am no different.

Portia asked:  "What exactly are you healing? Another very serious question. The answer could turn this around."

I am trying to heal from the effects of the abuse I have sustained by the behaviour of the n's in my family.  I am trying to heal from trauma and I am grieving losses.  

s

[mighty mouse]

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:00 am    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Red Flag.
This is just a hunch, but 's' is signing and creating an angry disturbance here much like 'Somebody' named 's' who was recently turfed from another Narcissism board.
Maybe or maybe not just a coincidence.


I think "s" was outed on the ramble thread as being "Somebody".

MM

[Anonymous]

I have never been to any other N board.

I already pointed out above that the somebody question was "outed", if that's what you mean.

Trying to create suspicion and making wild accusations are n traits, aren't they?   Anything to distort the truth, I mean.

This may be learned as well so I'm not offended.

s

[Wildflower]

Hi s,

I've been watching some of the ways people have been reacting to your posts, so may I offer this one observation?

I hear you saying that you want to help people, and that's generally a pretty good thing.  I think everyone here wants to help out in any way they can.

Unfortunately, some of your posts come across as though you have all the answers and are in a position to tell others how to think, feel, and act so that they will be happy and healthy.  We all share some similarities here, which is why we're able to support each other so much.  But we all have to find our own paths to health and happiness.  That's part of why so many of us are here.  We've been told what the 'right' ways are to think, feel, and act.  Even if it hurt us.

So I think it's great that you're here and learning and trying to find answers.  But I think it may help your conversations with others if you try to keep in mind that many people here may not need your help.  They may, in fact, be able to help you.

Best wishes,
Wildflower

[Portia]

Somebody, I said I would stop but I just changed my mind. I have another reply for you and then I do intend to stop. I feel I have hijacked Dinny's thread by speaking with you. Sorry Dinny. Just one more...

(and while I'm here, may I say: hiya MM, good to see you again, I like reading you. Yep I do!)

Quote Somebody:

I wrote: "By that, I mean, I feel like I have been reduced, my voice has been reduced to a tiny thing. "

Portia stated: "It doesn’t sound tiny to me."

What I feel is being invalidated by this statement.

Portia stated: "Your posts are strong and opinionated, to me..."

I have strong opinions. My feelings are not my opinions. They are two different things. You have strong opinions too Portia. And your feelings are valid.

Portia asked: "And what do you mean “have been” and “has been” – note how this is happening to you, how you are not responsible for minimising your own voice."

This is happening to me. I am not responsible for trying to crush my opinions or silence myself.

I had a logic breakdown. Somebody, you say you  "feel like I have been reduced, my voice has been reduced to a tiny thing" - so that's your feeling and as you know, you choose what to feel....

...so, when you then say: "This is happening to me. I am not responsible for trying to crush my opinions or silence myself" this does not compute. You are responsible. It's your feeling. As you point out to me.

You cannot accuse me of invalidating your feeling. I was stating my perception. That doesn't invalidate what you feel. I do not control what you feel. But you then cannot attempt to disown that feeling as being your feeling, your reaction, your perception.

Mind games. Word games. Sam Vaknin. Life is too short. S, life is too short. It's unlikely that everyone will relate to each other in this world. So generally we stick with people we can understand. I don't understand you. I've tried. I read your words. But nope, it doesn't work for me. We're both wasting our time on this I think. I'm getting angry, I think maybe you are too. I say let's call it a day. How about you? Want to let Dinny have her thread back? P

[Portia]

Sorry Wildflower, I was writing and didn't see your post. (((Wildflower))) you're such a warm person. You do it with such panache and humanity! P

[Anonymous]

Thankyou Wildflower, I'll keep that in mind.

I have seen many posts here.  Some are as you say and no real upset reaction occurs.  I think maybe the problem is more than my opinions.
Posting what I have learned is simply posting what I have learned to be a help to me.  It doesn't mean that anyone has to accept it or agree with it.  I post it for others to consider and decide if it is of any use to them.  I have done the same with many, many posts here.

I admire the group effort to stand up for one another.  That is a wonderful thing.  I feel like I have been deemed the enemy, not because of my opinions, but because I am posting them.

s

[Anonymous]

Hi P:

I'm glad you are still speaking to me and sorry to hear that you intend not to do that anymore.  I feel sad to think of that.

I'm not sure I said that we are responsible for what we feel, always, at all times, in every situation.  If I said that or something that came across that way, I have not said what I think about that correctly.

We are able to have an effect on the way we feel by making changes to the way we think.  I did say that, and I did that when I came back here.

On the other hand, as to feeling my voice is small, that feeling seems in sink (I really, really wish I could spell) with this situation, so I don't have a need to change my thinking on it, I think, for now at least.  I'm not disowning it.  I'm claiming it (my feeling). Look how small it is being made.  No word goes unchallenged.  No opinion without dispute.  Not one person has acknowledged the possibility that there may be misconceptions, assumptions, misjudgements and worse made about me.  Instead, the same insinuations are starting to sprout.  The "you're an n" thing is starting again and soon there will be swearing and a frenzied linch mob maybe!  That's what it was seeming like.  For what?

Because I put down my opinion about evil and behaviour etc.  Take it (my opinion, or anyone's for that matter)  or leave it.  Don't have a breakdown over it!  No need to jab me and taunt me and pick, pick, pick (as I have seen written here so many times).

Now I'm playing mind games!  Right!  And nobody else here is?
Ofcourse.  I forgot.  I was hallucinating when someone posted posts with the name Somebody on them that Somebody didn't write.  (Not true).
Certainly there is someone here doing that and that, is your villan, I'd bet my left slipper on it!

You stated your perception that my feeling was invalid.  Well, P, sorry to let you know but that's not true.  My feeling is valid and I did point out that all of yours are too.

We can't go around changing our thinking to alter each and every feeling we have now can we?  And whether you think this is playing on words, or some other manipulation, or not, the fact is you did invalidate my stated feeling.  It's ok though.  You may not have meant to do that and it doesn't matter.  I can take it as an error, unintentional, assume that's what happened.

I'm not angry at all, believe it or not Portia.  I read how angry you are in ramble and I'm sorry to hear that but I do understand.  It is sometimes very maddening to face facts.

The fact is, I have been verbally abused on this board and it is starting to occurr again, to me-- again.  I'm not abusing myself (at least the last time I looked I wasn't).

I'm not feeling angry about that but I am feeling a bit frustrated.  What for?  Read and discard, if you don't agree.  State what you think.  But don't disect every word of what I think and have the courage to write, and then try to blame me for standing up for my right to do so and for throwing abuse back where it belongs and for feeling small (etc) when the whole goal appears to be to make me feel that way.

This is not happening to you Portia, it's happening to me.  I did nothing to cause this and I will not take responsibility for such silly conflict.  Over a person's opinion and their right to voice it?

Who the heck thinks anyone does not have that basic right (other than some hate crimers or such)?

I'm not trying to disturb.  I'm voicing what I think.  I'm feeling very, very small indeed, like a squished fly for doing that and the response.  I have a right to feel that way when that is what is going on.

The attempt to make it my fault and my problem isn't working for me.
I would much rather do as you say and leave it at that and give Dinny back her thread (if it's Dinny's thread, which you say these cyber spaces belong to all and I have changed my thinking on that idea and I agree with you about that now.  P!!!  We agree about something I think!!!).

Still, I propose one idea here and ofcourse, all I can do is hope.
I hope a lot sometimes and I'm going to keep doing that.

How about a truce?
How about looking for the good in my posts instead of what is wrong with them?
How about taking what helps you and leaving the rest there on the page?
How about giving up the idea that I am here to cause you some problem or divide anything?
How about believing me....that I am like you....that I have plenty to learn and that I will learn a lot easier with kindness than I will without it?

I bet that works for lot's of people.
I'm not wasting my time trying to understand you Portia.   I'm not mad at you.   I admire you and I like you.   I've said this before and I haven't changed my mind about it.

And I'm taking your advice and calling it a day.

s

[Anonymous]

Messed up again!

My time is not being wasted and I do not think it is a waste of my time trying to understand you.  That's what I meant to say.

s

[Anonymous]

Hiya Somebody   , And may I ask, please start your full big name again. Enough of this little tiny s stuff, okay?  

Yeah, it's me, CG. I was going to stay outta here, and hey, maybe I'll wish I had of later.    hahahahahahaahahahah

But I just wanted to say, don't get all defensive and sorry for yourself   . Keep talking. Maybe not here on this thread. It's probably not going to improve for you on this one. But I understand the feeling of feeling like the board enemy. It's not nice. And you're not the board enemy. That's negative self-talk. You're say just sharing your views and beliefs as they are at this point in your life. Well then, if that's true, you're not the board enemy, are you?  

Maybe, can I make a suggestion? Please? Ignore the negative combative responses to your posts as much as humanly possible. Or find the positives in the responses to you posts. If there are any??     .

Might be wise not to go into full armour contact immediately, just because people post back that they don't like you or disagree with you. That's their opinion they're sharing. That's healthy communication. Doesn't need to turn into a "Who's the cleverest" or who can write the longest or most convincing argument. Quoting and quoting and explaining and explaining. I kinda think about that approach. It's not working for you here. Well, that's how it appears to me anyway. And other people here are all generally prety much an okay bunch. As good as you're gonna find anywhere.  

Hey, I'm going out on a limb here. I kinda liked that first post you did here on 20/9 at 5.50pm. I could agree with a lot of it. Not all of it, but a lot  hahahah hahahaha I've got my ideas, about this thread's topic, and I'm not buying in.

But yeah, I agreed with some of your ideas, and that bothered/confused me, because at times I just so don't understand you. I think I've told you before, you've kinda given me the creeps at times. My own problem thinking maybe? Dunno? But I'm giving you some honest feedback here, because I kinda care about how you're feeling too, now.
       Yeah, Somebody, hahahha  I'm shocked too.
Some things you and I will never ever agree on, but I'm not going there with you. Okay?    

But it's obvious you're screaming to communicate. You want/need to communicate. That's so obvious. And healthy. If you didn't you'da left by now. Enough people have expressed that desire, and you keep coming back. Anyway, no-one should you just because a few other people tell you to. It's not all the board. Just a handful. And hey, people don't have to read your posts. Suggestion, Make it clear you're Somebody when you post, and not imposter Somebody, and then people can not read if they don't like your posts. Dunno if that will work, but it may be worth a try.

This is voicelessness forum. And you make your own decisions about staying or going. You haven't violated any of the official rules I don't think. If you had of Dr G would probably have pulled you up by now.

My hope for you   . I hope you can read and learn form others here. Not everybody dislikes you, so youc an lose that self-talk   .

Ask questions, yes, certainly. But not just combative ones, in defence of your own posts which seem so precious to you. Once you've posted your thoughts, it's good/healthy to be able to allow people to disagree with them. Maybe, try to understand what they're disagreeing with, if it's just so important to you that you can't let it go. Or it won't let you go. But taking exception to every disagreement with your posts is going to keep you very busy with very long replies to a recipient maybe really doesn't care for you, and will keep you on-the-nose for quite a while, so to speak.

Unfortunately    I think you're percieved as forcing your opinions. That's how I see it too.    Sorry, but I do.  Well, that's how it appears to me anyway. I think you're very extremely sensitive about your opinions. That's okay. Maybe I am too? Maybe we all are? I'm just trying to share with you that maybe being so precious about them, in the way you are, is causing you more problems than you'd otherwise experience here.

I for one am happy to talk to you at times, if the topic interests me, and am happy to read you. And thankyou Somebody for giving the Portia and CG topic of friendship discussion a rest. I really appreciate that you respected that request.

So maybe you could post to some other threads. Share some opinions and ideas maybe. Offer some heartfelt validation to some people needing encouragment. Something not related to this topic and trial/test newer better hahahahahaah shorter/less combative way to communicate here.    I hope your read this post in the spirit it is written. With warmth.

I'm going on hols so won't be here to reply to you. Never mind.
Arnie style, "I'll be back"   But can you one more favour??? Please?If it feels okay with you, and only if it's okay with you, if you feel the need to reply to me, can you do it at Ramble Cafe please, cause I won't be coming back to this thread probably.

Best wishes
CG

[Anonymous]

So maybe you could post to some other threads. Share some opinions and ideas maybe. Offer some heartfelt validation to some people needing encouragment.

I am deeply opposed to this suggestion. I wish she'd stay on the one thread as she stated she would. She loses any credibility she may have by posting elsewhere.

bunny

[Anonymous]

And CG, it's a bit irritating that you post on this thread, saying you WON'T BE READING IT AGAIN, and suggest that Somebody post on other threads! Gee, thanks!

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi CG:

This was my original post to this thread:

"Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject:  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I used to believe some people were evil.

My definition of evil being that the person was totally devoid of conscience,
possessed by a desire to cause harm, and composed entirely of pure negativeness ................."

Unfortunately, the only way to ascertain the facts sometimes, CG, is to quote them.  That's not a put down or an insult.  It's just what seems needed sometimes, that's all.

And here is the first line of the first response to that post:

"Guest
 Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject: Excuses   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hear a latent symptom of denial in the last post..... "

A no name guest.  First words, a putdown or what?

Then, not too much further along,

"Guest
 Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:11 pm    Post subject:    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hear a latent symptom of denial in the last post. The illness is of the disease, disease is facing ones own portrait.

That's because s is Somebody who is in denial. Go figger. Or maybe go figure."
 
Did you see a response by me to either of these two mystery guest posts posted on this thread?

Who is beginning the disturbance in this thread?
Am I responsible?

Then, ListNewbie comes along and tries to calm things down.
Thanks for trying LN.

I'm not going to go through the whole thread or try to explain any further, CG.
You're right about disengaging, whoops, I agree with you on that.

I appreciate you speaking and saying my need to speak is healthy and you're way of trying to suggest that I am not the board enemy.  Also, that it seems you would like to see me use the name, Somebody.  That was nice.

However, Bunny's next stated wish (after your post) to confine me to another thread, by myself, on this board, indicates she thinks I should not, for some reason????, post elsewhere or where I choose and seems like an attempt to confine me and keep me confined which, sorry to say, here comes the negative self-talk, that makes me feel really small again.   I'm keeping the name, s, for now, and if and when I start to feel like Somebody again, in regard to --the putdown's stop--, if it's ok with you, or even if it isn't, I'm going to just sign as "s" because that's how I feel and you, nor anyone, can direct me to feel otherwise.  (if you reread the ramble thread, you may note the same reference to credibility there as well, maybe I'm wrong about who our mystery guest might be.  I'm not going there.....but I do have my ideas on that.

I hope you won't wish you hadn't posted CG because I value so much of what you say.  I think you are very wise and I've wanted to say that but since you became so upset when I complimented your friendship with Portia (and that was confusing for me but P pointed that out for me), after that, I said what I most wanted to say and missed this very important quality.  You are wise, CG.  I agree with a lot of what you say.  I have never told anyone that they "creep" me out before though.  I don't like to hurt other's feelings by saying things like that that have no real explanation.  But, it's your feeling you're expressing and you have every right to express it.  I'm sorry that  I creep you out and I hope I can find a way not to creep you out or at least, creep you out less often and that creeped out feeling you have is valid, for you.   I get creeped out in horror movies so it's making me feel very much like a horror movie character to think of it.  Maybe you don't mean it that way, so I'm not going to assume my idea of being creeped out is the same as yours.  OK?

Here I'm quoting you:  "don't get all defensive and sorry for yourself...."

Do you ever feel defensive?  When there is a mystery poster accusing you of being in denial and taunting you on a public bulletin board, do you feel defensive about that?  Has that happened to you before?   Sorry for myself?  I don't think I feel that.  I did before, awhile back, but now, I just feel frustrated that this person is achieving their goal of discrediting me, making me out to be something I am not, etc.. and I seem to be the only one who seems to see it.

Am I entitled to feel defensive and sorry for myself (if I do feel that way-which I don't.  I feel small and frustrated (and creepy, like a horror movie character--just kidding).

Are your smileys indicating you would be shocked to see positive responses to my posts?   I've been posting for awhile here.    There have been some.   I'm not sure if you were aware of that.  Not even sure why I'm letting you know except to relieve your shock, maybe.

You wrote:  "Might be wise not to go into full armour contact immediately,..."

I don't think I did that.  It took awhile for me to decide to speak about it.  This is another accusation isn't it?   Maybe you're thinking of it as healthy communication but I'm thinking of it as an accusation.  I'm not that sensitive.    But take a look around?   I'm not trying to be cleverest (is that a word?).  I pointing to the facts.

I'm not trying to write the longest, most convincing argument, another accusation, I'm trying to point out  the abusive communication happening here.   Maybe it wasn't obvious to you?   Or to others.

You wrote:  "And other people here are all generally prety much an okay bunch. As good as you're gonna find anywhere. "

I couldn't agree with you more and those are the people I'm pointing this out for.

And: "But yeah, I agreed with some of your ideas, and that bothered/confused me, because at times I just so don't understand you. I think I've told you before, you've kinda given me the creeps at times."

I see.  OOooooo.   The creeps again.  I'm confused by your attempt to sound kind while continuing to refer to me as creepy?  That is confusing.

And:  "It's not all the board. Just a handful...." in regards to people wanting me to leave the board.  I figgered that out too.  Another thing I considered before returning.  There are a lot of members on this board.  But thanks for pointing it out again and I do really, truly appreciate that this is a kind comment you are making, and I don't find it confusing at all.

And:  "Not everybody dislikes you, so you can lose that self-talk  . "
Well, CG,  you blew it.  I don't think everybody dislikes me and you have absolutely no idea about my self-talk or a right to order me about it.  But......I'm not going there any further.   That's not what this problem is about.

I agree with Bunny (Bunny, we agree on something!!!!).  I'm posting my response for you here and if you have time or inclination to read it, good, and if not, that's up to you.   I'm not trying to hurt you in any way here.  I'm trying to look at the facts and bring them to the surface.

CG wrote:  "Ask questions, yes, certainly. But not just combative ones, in defence of your own posts which seem so precious to you. "

What?   Huh???  What's precious to me???  An assumption that my posts are?  The truth, CG.  The facts.  That's what I'm posting about.  Not a response to some other opinion that disagrees with mine.  Nope, I'm speaking about an attempt to cause a disturbance and then blame it on me.  Clearly.

"I think you're percieved as forcing your opinions."

Yes, that's the impression that's trying to be made isn't it.  That's not the truth.   I don't know what is or is not perceived but whoever......the impression being forced is certainly clear to me.

"I think you're very extremely sensitive about your opinions."

Well, I don't agree.  I am sensitive about being made out to be a trouble maker though, when I voice an opinion and a mystery poster begins a disturbance.
Getting more sensitive about that....but actually, now that I think about it,....maybe that is lessening because I'm pointing it out and hoping that others will also see it and recognize it sooner and speak about it too.  That would be a good thing, what do you think?

And:  " I for one am happy to talk to you at times, if the topic interests me, and am happy to read you."

Me too with you CG, although that hasn't happened very often and I am hoping with all of my heart that you will not feel sorry that you posted here or angry with me for my response because I disagree with you about your observations and that is not the end of the world.  Maybe you didn't notice and that's ok.  I am not offended by your words (except maybe a little about creeping you out but I'm still confused about that and maybe you aren't saying what I think you're saying).

You wrote:  "So maybe you could post to some other threads. Share some opinions and ideas maybe. Offer some heartfelt validation to some people needing encouragment."

Been there.  Done that.  Gonna keep at it CG, don't you worry about that a bit.

Then:  "...........shorter/less combative way to communicate here".

Oh, oh.  More of the I'm combative over my opinions again.  Well, that's ok, CG.  You may have changed your mind about that by now.  I'm not going to judge you and expect that you won't keep on trying to promote the idea that I have started a disruption that I did not start.  I'm combative about taking blame that is not mine and so I should be, don't you think?

Have fun on your holiday!!  I hope you have a blast!!!
I said I would give it a rest today.  I was going to post this tomorrow but I've just found out I have company coming and will not be on here again until Monday, at the earliest.     No time to do the colour thingy.

Hope you all have a great week-end.

s