Author Topic: is narcissism a disease or evil?  (Read 32393 times)

flower

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is narcissism a disease or evil?
« Reply #135 on: September 27, 2004, 03:33:50 AM »
Here's a little twist to spice up the topic of evil.

It is an article called:

"The sickening predictability of our capacity for evil"
Not everyone was surprised by the news of abuses in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

Seattle Times/May 6, 2004
By Jerry Large

It discusses the Stanford Prison Experiment and another classic psychological experiment.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing42.html

rickross.com is:
"A database of information about cults, destructive cults, controversial groups and movements. The Rick A. Ross Institute of New Jersey (RRI) is a nonprofit public resource with a vast archive that contains thousands of individual documents."

Anonymous

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is narcissism a disease or evil?
« Reply #136 on: September 27, 2004, 08:42:43 AM »
Good Morning Everyone:

I'm in a hurry this morning so I don't have time to look back and read the many pages posted after my last post on Thurs (I think that was on page 5, if I recall correctly).   I will read those posts but I don't have time now.  It looks like the discussion is continuing and I'm glad to see that.  I did take a look at this article, thankyou for posting it Flower.

Quote from article:  "At this point, men gasped and women often cried, but 65 percent of more than 1,000 subjects had done something they wouldn't have believed themselves capable of. "

This is something I have personally experienced, doing something I wouldn't have believed myself capable of.  I feel it might help to let you know that my family is healing slowly, with patience and understanding.  It may be difficult to imagine but some families do heal from what seems like the unhealable and some of our relationships are stronger than they were before.

"Prisons can establish safeguards against abuse, encourage reporting of misbehavior and treat it seriously, foster the attitude that inmates are fellow human beings, make each individual responsible for his behavior. "

Tough thing to do on  a public bulletin board and so there are mystery posters who are then able to create disruptions and verbally abuse to their heart's content.  I've thought about this over the weekend and really, CG is correct (thanks CG).   The best thing is just to ignor negative comments.

"But it's not just prisons that have a problem. Any institution where individuality, dissent and morality are sacrificed for some other goal is liable to support evil. "

This makes sence to me and any institution where these things are assumed absent in individuals, thus labelling that person as vile, is liable to support a dangerous type of evil behaviour--verbal abuse.

The words that struck me as so wise and so true were written elsewhere on this board as such:

There are many reasons but no excuses (or something akin to that, not sure I have the wording precise).

To me that means there are many reasons people abuse eachother but there are no valid excuses for abusing people.

Ever.

Abusive behaviour of any type is wrong and I don't accept it.
I understand that there may be reasons for it but I agree fully that there are never valid excuses for it.   I do not accept such behaviour toward anyone in my family, nor to myself.   This may be something that some here are having trouble believing about me, but it is the truth.

In any event, I will read the rest of the posts here when I can (I have a busy week ahead and may not get a chance until late in the week).

Hope you are all doing well.

s

Lizbeth

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is narcissism a disease or evil?
« Reply #137 on: September 27, 2004, 12:07:28 PM »
Troll Alert.

P as guest

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is narcissism a disease or evil?
« Reply #138 on: September 27, 2004, 12:10:22 PM »
I typed out some things from a book at the weekend that I thought were relevant to evil, making people objects, making them the 'enemy' and so on. For anyone's interest here.

D Rowe, ‘Friends and enemies’ page 336:
“Your enemy must see and acknowledge you. To be held in the gaze of your enemy might put you in danger, but such a gaze can be comforting because it assures you that you exist and are important. Many people, when offered the choice between living comfortably and safely in a society where nobody even acknowledges your existence, much less talks to you, and living in a society where people acknowledge you but only to persecute you, choose the latter…..

….being unacknowledged creates the threat of annihilation. The comfort of paranoia is that someone, somewhere is thinking of you. Unfortunately, the sad truth is that other people think of us only occasionally, if at all. Our favourite topic in our thinking is ourselves and our concerns. Those people who pride themselves on their concern for others are likely to be busy observing themselves being concerned about others rather than giving their full attention to the objects of their concern.”

On trolls. Page 327. “Then there was the deep division that racism created. Pat spoke of how, centuries ago, when people in northern Europe began living in villages, they had to find ways of getting along with one another. So they invented trolls and other dark little people to be the repositories of their fears. The trolls represent those parts of our meaning structure which, if we subjected them to scrutiny, would challenge the validity of other parts of our meaning structure. The Aboriginal people, said Pat, were the trolls of white Australians….”

Page 340 on paranoia: “The enemy, so central to the theory, is no ordinary enemy…..
he is a perfect model of malice…he is a free, active, demonic agent….He wills, indeed he manufactures, the mechanism of history himself, or deflects the normal course of history in an evil way….the paranoid’s interpretation of history is in this sense distinctly personal: decisive events are not taken as part of the stream of history, but as the consequence of someone’s will…..very often the enemy is held to possess some special source of power: he controls the press; he directs the public mind through ‘managed news’….
Such a comprehensive theory with such an enemy at its centre removes all ambiguity and uncertainty from the paranoid person’s view of the world. Moreover, it absolves the person of any responsibility for what happens in the world. The enemy is always to blame…..”

Page 343 on absolutism: “Whenever I spend time with someone who adheres absolutely to some absolute belief, even if that person is not threatening me, I begin to feel oppressed and want to escape…my friend Sandra…said: ‘People with absolute beliefs are like death. They’re anti-life.’
Life is about change. People who hold absolute beliefs and want everyone to conform to those beliefs are against change. They do not even allow for the possibility of change. Therefore they have to force other people to be what they want them to be. Force always involves some degree of cruelty.”

I post these because they meant a lot to me, reading them. Portia, identifying myself

Portia

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is narcissism a disease or evil?
« Reply #139 on: September 27, 2004, 12:13:35 PM »
That is my post above, with the Rowe quotes. I was also in this thread as Guest earlier – it was very liberating. But I’ll stop now. P