Black president or female VP - what a new world

[miss piggy]

So anyway, gang, as I was saying, I am excited about the changes and the energy that this election year is bringing.  The whole world is wondering how America will deliver this year.  It is interesting to observe how people make their political decisions, James.  Some historians are now studying "psycho-history" which I think is some kind of analysis of how certain personalities are launched by the psychology of the group and the political factors in play at the time.  It can really come down to the difference one person can make.  Politicians can sort of be like archetypes we need at any particular time...

[James]

Hi Mud .........I don't consider this thread to be one that has blown up. Perhaps to you it feels that way. Not me, in fact I find the psychology at play here very interesting and it gives me valuable insight into myself and others. I also don't consider a healthy option to be where the appearance of taking sides promotes the notion/illusion where the resolution of uncomfortable feelings is to be where one side is then forced or reasoned with into remaining quiet. In reality isn't this the principal fascism is founded on rather than democracy. The Narcissistic family is a fascist structure rather than a democratic way of life and in fact, silence becomes the position of many an abused child where he is able to survive but then cannot express his authentic emotions notably his justified anger. Some who are in denial throw rocks at the parent and others who are in denial support the parent and enforce on others what was forced on them as children. IMO this is learned very deeply, early on, by some people and then later becomes the framework for adult thinking and behavior, primarily unconscious.....James

[Ami]

Hi Mud .........I don't consider this thread to be one that has blown up. Perhaps to you it feels that way. Not me, in fact I find the psychology at play here very interesting and it gives me valuable insight into myself and others. I also don't consider a healthy option to be where the appearance of taking sides promotes the notion/illusion where resolution of uncomfortable feelings to be where one side is to be then forced or reasoned with into remaining quiet. In reality isn't this the principal fascism is founded on rather than democracy. In many a N family, it is a fascist structure rather than a democratic way of life. In fact, silence is the position of many an abused child where he survives but then cannot express his authentic emotions notably his justified anger. Some who are in denial throw rocks at the parent and others who are in denial support the parent and enforce on others what was forced on them as children. IMO this is learned very deeply, early on, by some people and then later becomes the framework for adult thinking and behavior primarily unconscious.....James

I think it is obvious to most that we play out our FOO(family of origin ) issues on the board. I think James made a good point about that. We,also, play out the role we had with our parents. It is an opportunity to learn if one wants to take it.  I try to be open to learning, to the best of my ability.                          Ami

[James]

Hi Bean.............b]I'm not sure how one goes from constantly protecting themself, or feeling like they must - like you said by either attacking or protecting the parent -  to feeling the feelings but not reacting this way because of it.  When and how do we stop defending ourselves? Bean, I'm not sure if I can answer your question here but it might go something like this....I think we can stop defending ourselves when we realize deep down there isn't anything wrong with us as our parents abusive behavior implied. My defensiveness was a result of abuse and lies. When I was small I accepted, to survive, the belief that I was bad and they were good, surely all parents are good and mine were too, I was forced to believe this as all kids need to believe their parents love them, even if they don't. They weren't, they were rotten, both of em. It wasn't until I faced the pain of this fact that I became far less defensive. It was them not me that was bad, and I had to get this on a very deep level where I accepted that I wasn't loved and instead was abused. I had to give up any illusions of ever being loved.  Does this make sense to you?......James

[Ami]

Dear James and Bean
 I  appreciate your posts. They are some of the most valuable  I have ever seen on the board.
 I have been in a period of grief as I truly face my parents. It is like mourning a death.
 I thought my parents were good and I was bad, as  all children do. I took every little thing they did for me, such as sending  me  Birthday presents, as evidence that they loved me .
 Meanwhile, I thought *I* was not worthy to eat or breathe.
 I have realized that my H is very close to an N, if not one.
After all the years of marrige and my N H colluding with my NM, I did not think I was worth anything at all.
 I am facing that my parents did not love me. How could you leave your D and small children in an abusive marriage where the door lock  has to be replaced over and over b/c it is broken down in a rage?My F's comment to that was "That is life."
 If you loved an animal, you would help it more than that.
 My M was available for all the "good" times, graduations, births, etc but not when I needed s/one in a real way. Then, she made it clear that I made my bed and I must lie in it.
 So, is that love? I don't think so. It is s/one who has no empathy and feeling.
 Thank you, dear friends. I appreciate your discussion.       Love   Ami
 

[James]

Bean.......You confirm my thinking that seeing the truth sets us on to a path of genuine recovery. I don't think there is any other way. I don't know why some people do it and others don't. For me, I hit bottom and felt I had no other choice, but I have always wanted to know the truth even when I was little. I never saw any of this thinking in my other family members. Maybe they were more comfortable than me and didn't have as much abuse as I felt. I was the family scapegoat and acted act so their abuse was pretty severe, because of this everyone pigpiled on me. They say they didn't but I know they did. More than anything else I sense a huge "fear of the parents " in all of them which they adamantly refuse to acknowledge. You should see them squirm and get angry when I bring this issue up. I'm not religious and they are. I see where this has helped keep them in denial by their beliefs that it's better to forgive and forget. To never ever allow those "evil" feelings of anger out b/c it makes them look bad and its wrong according to their beliefs. Honor the parents no matter what seems to be their motto. This keeps their fear of the parents and consequently their real rage locked inside (denial) and then rather than confronting the real targets they scapegoat others without knowing what they're doing and nothing is ever resolved. Were you scapegoated or maybe the more sensitive one in your family?  James

[Gaining Strength]

"8 years of betrayal," John McCain 9/4/08

[Ami]

Dear Bean
 THANK YOU so much for those profound words. I want to think about them and may write more,later.             Love   Ami

(((((((Bean)))))))))

[Gaining Strength]

Bean and Ami - your conversation is very significant and contains important work.  I would respectfully ask that you take it to your own thread as I started this one about something quite different.  Thank you.

[Izzy_*now*]

Question

Canadian here so, ...What happened to Hillary and why and who is running in her place?

Edit in] Okay--got McCain and Palin. Where is Hillary?

[Ami]

The political discussion seemed like it had reached it's natural conclusion.Threads meander,but this one will stay political .         Ami

[Gaining Strength]

The political discussion seemed like it had reached it's natural conclusion.

I did ask respectfully.  I does feel like a slap in the face that the discussion that I started has been trampled on without concern.  That is certainly what I experienced repeatedly in my family of origin.

the thread didn't reach a "natural conclusion" but was changed significantly from the point that I began posting about - that is precisely what "hijacking" is.

[Ami]

 Many times threads change and wander. I respected your request. I don't see why there should be more issues.     Ami

[Gaining Strength]

Izzy - Hillary was running for the nomination for president in the democratic party.  She lost that bid to Barack Obama.  He is the democrat's nomination.

[Gaining Strength]

Many times threads change and wander. I respected your request. I don't see why there should be more issues.

The issue is that there is a sharp tone in your post: Threads meander,but this one will stay political . and I am standing up for myself because I feel the sharpness as I have felt when I have stood up for myself in my narcissistic family.

Respecting my request would have sounded more like, "I'm sorry you felt hijacked, I'll be glad to take it to another thread."