Feeling Vindictive

[gratitude28]

OK, run through this with me, even though I am not planning to do anything of any sort - just daydreaming. How could you really hurt an N???? Could you???? Is there anything that would shake them???? As I sit here, I cannot think of one way I could make NM miserable... even if I truly wanted to.

[Izzy_*now*]

hi Beth,
Well, my thought is to 'hit them where it hurts".

Who--a girl? denounce her beauty, a man? his good looks, in some way

A husband? wonder why his 'member' keeps getting shorter.

Tell the honest truth when they are really looking for sympathy/lies.

I told the N that as he aged and made love to himself at the rate he was going, IT would begin to rot, then fall off, and he wouldn't be able to pee straight, and he would be alone for the rest of his life with no one, and wonder why!

Izzy

--as for the NM, tell her you are positive the nurses mixed up the babies as you couldn't possibly be her daughter with such apparent differences and personalities? etc. etc.

[teartracks]

Hi Beth,

OK, run through this with me, even though I am not planning to do anything of any sort - just daydreaming. How could you really hurt an N???? Could you???? Is there anything that would shake them???? As I sit here, I cannot think of one way I could make NM miserable... even if I truly wanted to.

I've wondered about this a lot.  All I can say is, I don't know.  My experience is that N's bend everything they experience to fit what their truth is moment to moment.   The only thing I have ever been able to do that seemed make an impact in the moment was to turn quickly and walk away from ploys directed at me in any given moment.  More often than not, though, I get hooked and don't  think quickly enough on my feet to turn on that dime and walk away. 

I think you're wise to take it no farther than a thought.  Trying to engage realistically with an N is rarely rewarding.  If it is a child, however, I think we should do everything in our power to get through to them or get them professional help.

My opinion.

tt

[Hopalong]

I did hurt an Nex-bf, by exposing his dishonesty and philandering to other women he'd been also maintaining as NSupply.

It embarrassed and enraged him. It was very satisfying.

Until some time later, when I realized I'd sunk to his level, staying hooked via payback.

So in the long view, I kind of regret it.

On the other hand, searching for and talking to the other women was tremendously validating and liberating.

I think the compromise and better moral choice would have been to contact them, which was healing, but not tell him about it -- it was his knowledge of it that hurt.

Hops

[Gaining Strength]

I think they hurt when you are honest with them rather than suck ups.  How do you know they are hurt - they act out in anger - they rage - they bite back or they lash out.

How to hurt them - say yes when you mean yes and no when you mean no.  Say, "That's not convenient." "Maybe another time." and similar things.  That's how you hurt them.

[Gaining Strength]

I have to laugh at myself.  Even after posting to your thread I kept reading the title incorrectly.

I saw it as Feeling Vindicated.  Now that's a far cry from Feeling Vindictive, but isn't it strange how close the two are?  Well - I think you (we) are vindicated for feeling vindictive - That's what I have to say.

[ann3]

Hi Gratitude,

IMO, the most vindictive thing we can do to an N is to ignore them.  OH, how they hate being ignored, we're not giving them N supply.

But, I also feel being vindictive is  a waste off our energy.  Take the energy we put into imagining revenge and instead, put that energy into improving our lives.  Living well is the best revenge.

xoxo,
ann

[gratitude28]

Yes, Ann, it does chafe my NM's behind that I am living well now.
All of you, thanks for the replies. It just struck me as I have had to deal with NM that there is nothing I could do that would really affect her - as SS said, she would simply become enraged and deflect whatever the accusation/attack was.
Hops, although you angered you exNH, I am sure you did not wound his soul - I think that was what I was getting at. They have no core to attack/affect.
I never thought of the vindictive/vindicated connection before. I think they both come from Latin (vin) - to win.
Yes, tt, I would try to help a child, no matter what. Perhaps if the disorder is caught early on and a psychologist allowed to help, a child could somehow learn to trust his environment.
Ha ha Izzy! Yours were so funny! Again, I can see them sinply deflecting those words (the other person is unstable so the words can't be true). I just think their minds are so warped. So, did it fall off?????

[gjazz]

Is it possible that what would help you, would also, incidentally, hurt your N?  In my NF's case, the thing that drives him to absolute distraction is being rendered irrelevant.  He cannot stand people not caring what he wants/thinks/needs at any given moment.  The first time I tried this, he accused me of not caring about him.  I said, "you measure how much people care about you by how much they are willig to hurt themselves on your behalf.  I am unwilling to do that anymore."  The thing is, you can't really fake it.  He knows all too well when I'm playacting.  Once I trained myself to really, honestly not care one way or the other and focused instead on doing what was right for me, he went bats.  Still does.  Acts just like a spoiled two year old.  Because it's a loss of control.

[gratitude28]

Yes, gjazz, that is very true. But their temper tantrums are much more like those of babies than actual wounds inflicted upon them. I think you are so right about their need to control - and about the need to be fully committed to your plan to not let them control you!! Good job!!! You sound like you are being very strong.
Love, Beth

[Hopalong]

I said, "you measure how much people care about you by how much they are willig to hurt themselves on your behalf.  I am unwilling to do that anymore." 

That's brilliant, wise, wonderful.

Thanks, Gjazz...

Hops

[gjazz]

It was a sad realization when I first had it: that I would have to choose between saving myself and having a father.  He enjoys nothing more than watching women participate in their own degradation, and he fights to make that happen, believe me.  There was a time when I was living near him that I honestly think I went crazy.  I did things I wouldn't think possible now.  Lied, betrayed people.  It was like my head was spinning all the time, I could never feel my feet firmly on the ground.  He was always watching, physically and otherwise--I got to the point where I knew he was even aware of my thoughts, and manipulating them.  He would park outside my gated complex, so I could see his car from my window, and attack call from his car phone (my term for repeat dialing until someone picks up).

So I moved away.

[Hopalong]

Ugh, what a horror of a man.
I'm glad you freed yourself.

It IS a tragedy, when a child of an N (and he's more than that, he sounds sociopathic and predatory) faces the truth of NO love there.

Then, all we have...is a choice to look into the world determined to see the REAL love that IS there.

Just not in a biological package.

I just told a friend (who has an Nmother) today that I'd finally come to realize that all the small bits of nurturing I receive and give with the good women in my life adds up to -- mothering. We are mutual mothers.

And I think maybe I could discover that with good men ... I've told a few at times they feel like "good brothers".

Love is real. I'm sorry your biofather had none. He's sick.

And you DID save yourself. Like you accessed your own inner protective father, the part of each of us that is self-father and self-mother...no matter what our gender.

Now...to be happy. Even actually happy.

I insist. Don't make it all the time, but when I let it in, it's just as real as all the pain ever has been.
(I don't look for ecstasy any more. Simple happiness. Small love.)

xo
Hops

[gjazz]

I realized I had "found" my father years ago when I first read about Malignant Narcissism.  I have also called him a sociopath--I believe he is.  He tried to murder my mother in a way that would have made my brothers witnesses to his "innocence."  They were far more savvy than he realized, and my oldest brother caught him at it and stepped in.  The amazing thing is that for the past thirty years, this was never spoken of.  Finally my mother said to him, "I wanted to thank for that day at-" and he finished the sentence with the location.  Not a word, for thirty years, and it was so close to the surface that she could have been talking about anything and yet could only have been talking about that one thing, even after all that time.

You are right, though, Hops, regarding happiness.  I made a decision not to marry or have children, because I honestly did not know--did not know, 100%, without question, that I could be sure of not passing on whatever gene made him what he is.  This is something I have never regretted.  Being in love would be (and has been) wonderful, but it takes a very special sort of man.  In the meantime I've learned ways to access the joy in me, meet my own needs that way, to not run from sadness but to not run from happiness either.

[Overcomer]

Even if I hurt my mom she would never acknowledge the hurt - rather she would label me unstable or something like that....

She treated many employees poorly and they are starting a store of their own just two miles away......that and if I get one of these jobs, I will exit stage left as well and leave her holding the bag.  The bag that SHE refused to share.............so see if you can do it mom....

I am too stressed to be with her AND to fight the new store...

So in ways I think she is getting hurt.  She has been untouchable for so many years because of her wealth and I think this former employee has been plotting his payback for quite some time......

Being exposed would hurt her but she is a master at deny...deny...deny