HOw to

[gjazz]

Lupita:

I really really really hope you will reconsider being OK with his need to control. 

[Hopalong]

Dear Lupita,

ANY relationship is not better than NO relationship.

Positive relationships with kind positive healthy friends or a kind positive community is a very good grounding for making better choices.

I am very concerned about his need for control and your need for drama. The party stories made me feel sad and sick for you.

Please read Escape from Intimacy by Anne Schaaf. What you're doing sounds like fusion, not love.

You may be risking more than you know.

with love to you,
Hops

[lighter]

Lupita:

If you have time, could you start a new thread about your job and son.... how the new place is working out?

Some updates on other things in your life, please?

Lighter

[Lupita]

I'd just like to comment on your thread... and not post on the board, if you don't mind.

First.... I think this boyfriend relationship is unhealthy.... and that it feels comfortable and good bc it's familiar to you.

Second.... you guys aren't setting any boundaries, and it seems like crossing them would be a requirement, if you did. n Yikes..... Lupita..... please think about this.

Third.... you don't have to make your relationship public, for him to behave appropriately with other women, in front of you.

He should have handled it better. 

You should have ignored him and maybe ended the relationship, when he didn't.

Another option would have been to take him aside quietly, at your first opportunity, and state a boundary like: 

"I'm uncomfortable with your behavior tonight.  If you continue to behave this way I will know that you don't want to have a relationship with me and it will end." 

Then go back to the party and see what his choice is.  If he corrects..... he's honoring you.  If he doesn't, you provide the consequence you stated, and walk away (without anger and yelling.)

These are my comments, not criticism.

That you seem to be getting dependant on this relationship is alarming.  It's not healthy to invite a controlling dysfunctional person into your life, though it'll be a BIG learning experience if you continue. 

It's headed to heartache and confusion.... I want you to see it written out clearly, by a friend, before it goes farther.

Keeping this guy at an emotional distance and enjoying some time with him doesn't seem so wrong....

but.....

I really wish you could skip the more painful lessons.... and start learning from healthier ones for a while.

This is a letter from Lighter, and I decided to make it public because it is so wise letter, so insightful, so intelligent, that it is a waste that other people do not learn from this letter.

Dear Lighter, I am terrified with your wirds. I am afriad that you are totally right. He is spending the weekend with me. He is going to church tomorrow with me.

Yes, I agree with you that he should have behaved better no matter what. I am afraid that everytime that I do not give him what he want he is going ro punish me the same way.

I think this is not going to work. I am just trying to enjoy the present which is very nice right now.

Please, tell me what you think I should do next. I am relaxing, and I will keep him at an emotional distance. For example, I do not see him during the week, we only spend weekends together. he has nothing to do with my finiantial things, he does not need anything from me, he is independent, he is 63 years old. I hope that we are just having fun now. Hopefully we are never going to live together, or enmesh in a finantial situation. NO, that is a boundary that I will set very clearly. No fianatial things.

What else do you suggest that I can mark as a boundary?  Give me ideas, because I do not know about boundaries, I am going back to counceling next week, that might help.


Hopalong, what do oyu mean that I might end up losing more ? Please be more explicit.

Guys I need ytour help now.

He loves wayne dyer, self help, he speaks in a nice way, he does not care a bout money, he is not judgemental and all the acuantaces that I have now really like him.

I do not know what to think.

OK, be more explicit.

Love to you and thank you so much for your adivises. I am looking forward to hear more.

[lighter]

Lupe:

It looks like you're already somewhat emotionally dependant on this man.

Advice from Hops, to take a class on asserting yourself.....

doing some research on healthy boundaries and enforcing them.....

would be a good idea, IMO.

I'm picturing you in a circle.... (figuratively, as firm boundaries you state and put in place)

                                     "I wish to keep our relationship private, for now" for example.

He respects your wishes and discusses it with you calmly, when he needs to revisits that subject, or he states his boundary..

                              "I can't do that and I'll have to leave the relationship, in that case."

You both have enough information to make big people decisions, without crossing boundaries or disrespecting each other.

What happened, isn't acceptable.  It's an alarming glimps at the future of this relationship, IMO.

You state a boundary.

He disrepects it, behaves innapropriately then blames you for it.

You react, accept the blame and change your boundary bc you're becoming dependant on the relationship.

That's what I see. 

You can comfort yourself about financial independence and your ability to keep him from crossing other, more important boundaries, as you see it, but.....

If he's crossing the first boundary then makes excuses and defends his right to do so..... he's likely to keep crossing them.  Maybe he doesn't even understand what's happening himself. 

But you do.

Now you have another choice to make.  How to revisit this, like an adult.  This is another life skill you're practicing.... it doesn't have to be the end of the world, bc Lupita is stating boundaries and consequences.  Calm down..... write about it and really spend some time thinking about boundaries you want to set and how you'll handle them, in any case.

He needs to know that you aren't going engage in this type of relationship and if it happens again..... you'll follow through with whatever consequences you set.

Can you do that?

If you aren't sure what your boundaries are, that makes it much harder to enforce, IMO. 

I think that first boundary, to keep the relationship private, was appropriate and reasonable.  Don't you?

Lighter 





 

 

[Hopalong]

Lup, I completely agree with Lighter on this:

What happened, isn't acceptable.  It's an alarming glimps at the future of this relationship, IMO.

You state a boundary.

He disrepects it, behaves innapropriately then blames you for it.

You react, accept the blame and change your boundary bc you're becoming dependant on the relationship.

That's what I see. 

You can comfort yourself about financial independence and your ability to keep him from crossing other, more important boundaries, as you see it, but.....

If he's crossing the first boundary then makes excuses and defends his right to do so..... he's likely to keep crossing them.

My feeling is that you are not in love with him, he's just available. I understand, I have been lonely too.
By paying more than you know I mean the ultimately exhausting, stressful, depressing end of an unhealthy relationship that could have been ended much more easily soon after it started.

hugs to you,
Hops
PS-- I don't think you need advice on strategies to control him in order to keep him. I think you need advice on not compromising your serenity and your privacy for anyone.  The boundary is: You come in to another area of my life WHEN INVITED. You do not TAKE, you ASK.

But in honesty, with someone like him at age 63, I wouldn't try. Not any more. I have decided to accept that people are exactly who they are. You aren't talking about negotiating simple things out of mutual consideration between 2 healthy adults. You're talking about defending your core space and your sense of safety from a man who behaves with ENTITLEMENT...one of the core red flags of narcissism.

xxxooo I'm sorry.

[gjazz]

I gotta agree with Hops and Lighter on this one, Lupita.  It seems to me this man isn't seeking a relationship, he's staking a claim.  Kamikaze relationships--fast, intense--are N hallmarks, as is behaving like he did at the party.  It's still early days and if he's on the up and up he'll have no problem with you wanting to slow things down and have some personal space.

[ann3]

Lupita,

Here are 2 good books on boundaries.  I've read them both.  IMO,  once you understand what a boundary is, you will automatically know how to set them and when someone has crossed them.

Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life (Paperback)
by Henry Cloud (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/

Boundaries - Where You End And I Begin: How To Recognize And Set Healthy Boundaries
by MA, Anne Katherine (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/

Here are some good web sites you can read right now:

Setting Personal Boundaries - protecting selfhttp://www.joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm


What is a boundary?
Signs of ignored boundaries
Rational boundary building thinking
How to establish healthy boundaries
Steps to establishing healthy boundaries
http://www.coping.org/innerhealing/boundary.htm

For what it's worth, I agree with Hopalong:  At 63, I doubt this guy will change.  Also agree that this sounds more like fusion than love. 

Good luck,

w/love,
ann

[Lupita]

Well, I guess I am not going to neet any advise anymore. We just finished. He wanted somrthing I was not willing to give. I got terrified that he would punish me again and just offered him a ride home.

During the ride home I told him that I was afraid that he would be looking for somewhere else for what I would not be able to give him nad that I did not want to have a boyfriend anymore.

I was wondering what was my contribution to his behavior. I really liked him. I really enjoyed being with him but I am not willing to sacrifice anything. He was willing to commit and I was not.

I am so sorry! He even went to church for me. He gave me all the attntion I wanted. I did not reciprocate him the same way. I told him I did not want him in my kitchen. I told him I felt intruded when he went to my kitchen and fixed an egg because he was hungry. I was being selfish.

I am so sorry. But despite the fact that I told him that I did not like it he still went and did it. So, there is a fact. He does not respect my desire.

He is pushy and he does not know that he is pushy.

I am so sorry.

Well, I am alone again in my apartment like I have been for twenty years. I did not lasted just four weeks.

I am so sorry.

[teartracks]

Dear Lupita,

I'm very sorry your heart has been traumatized.  It will get better.  The pain you feel now won't go on without end, but it will go on for a while.   I'm not too good at romance counseling, but I have had my heart broken a few times and remember how awful it was.
 
tt

[Hopalong]

Lots of love and comfort to you, Lupe...

Do one thing?

Please don't say "always" or "never" to yourself, about yourself...or your future, especially now.

I'm sending hugs and comfort, you are going to be okay.

It was a hard decision but I have faith in you.
I'm sure you said what you needed to.

Reminded me of your mother who was always intrusive in your kitchen.

It was good PRACTICE. Keep the line moving!

love, peace...be kind to yourself...

Hops

[lighter]

I'm so sorry, Lupe.

Can you share how your interaction, over the last disagreement went?

He asked for something.

You didn't feel comfortable with the request.

How did you handle it and how did he handle that?

Sounds like you just skirted it and ended the relationship bc you didn't want to deal with his actions after you stated a boundary?

That CB asks you to explore this, is very wise. 

Understanding yourself better....

leads to more/better choices.

Lighter

[ann3]

So sorry for your pain.

ann

[Hopalong]

Looooopeeeeeeeeetaaaaaaaa!

Honey where aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare you????

Check INNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN please!

xxoo

Hops

[Lupita]

Gjazz, Ann3, Hopsywopsy, Light, CB dear CB, TT

Thank you so much for all your advises and help.

I am just checking in because Hops asked me, I do not feel well. I am a little disappointed of life and human kind. Also, of every eight persons, at least four have a personality disorder. Not only that, but there are more women than men. Where ever you go you are going to find more women than men. Plus, more men dye every day, and more women are born every day. Not to mention that at least a 20% of men are homosexual.
So, it is very difficult to find a man that besides of being a man has economic solvency and a nice personality and  healthy personality and also is willing to go out with you when there are hundreds of younger woman wanting to go out with better bodies and economic possibilities.

Anyway, I am aware that I do not want to bring a nightmare in my life. I know that W and I have problems and he is control frick.

He things that we only had a misunderstanding, he does not understand that I do not want him any more. Iy is going to take a lot of intelligence in my part to finish this. But I have to do it in a way that he does not feel offended in his manhood because he belongs to my meditation club, to my walking club and to my salsa school. Also, I want to keep him as a friend, because I cannot make him my enemy, he lives very close to my house and knows all my friends.

Now I have to be very intelligent. I did not let him come a visit me last noight after our meditation class, and I will not let him come tonight after out walk, and let us see if little by little he loses interest, also, he might start flirting around, and when he does that I will have the opportunity to make him proud of my finishing with him, without him to be offended.

So, I have to prepare my stomach for what is coming.

Yes, I am sad and disappointed.

W called me and he wanted to pick me up for the walking tonight. I said I can walk there, it is two nlocks from my house. He said OK.

I do think that I am going to be alone for the rest of my life.


Not to mention that I have problems ar work, not like I used to in my other school, but it is not easy to be a teacher these days nad I have nobody to love me.

Not my mother, not a boyfriend, I hardly ever see my son, it is very lonely here.