Ns inability to tolerate other Ns

[sunblue]

Hello all:

Been a long time since I've been here but it's great to be back.  Love the new board and new site.  My work situation has progressively worsened causing me to work non-stop...hence my inability to visit here lately.

But lately with my N mom, as she has had to experience some injustice and changes at her work, I've noticed interestingly that she is not able to tolerate Narcissism in others.  She described the behavior of a co-worker which, to me, seems like she is a narcissist.  When I explained what narcissism was to her, she was incapable of recognizing it in herself...yet, she went on and on about how she HATED this other woman who exhibited these traits.

Her life continues to revolve around her job....and you'd think the world fell in when she heard of changes at her job.  Nevermine that I'm sick and exhausted from my lousy situation.  But I've come to realize that no one in my family, not even my so-called "healthy" brother is capable of having a relationship in a healthy mannerl

So I have to admit that I have found myself being and feeling more alone.  But also recognizing that it will never change.  Times are tough right now I guess so I have reason to complain.

So how is everyone else doing?  Anyone else notice that their Ns couldn't tolerate narcissism in others.  It's curious for sure.

Sunblue

[Ami]

Dear Sun
  I think about how funny it would be to pair my N M with another equally obnoxious N and see what happened.There is only enough room for one N at the party.
 I know it is so hard to face the truth of our lives, Sun. I am with you on that.                   Love to you   Ami
 

[gratitude28]

Sun,
we went on a trip recently when my parents came to visit. My mother pointed out all the things in other people that she herself exhibits - she called people "envious," "jealous of people with money...." I can't remember the other ones, but they were all the characteristics that she herself displays. I see her so much clearer after learning so much here and she is almost laughable, if she weren't so pathetic and so heartless. Yes, they are masters at seeing their own faults and fears in other people.
Love, Beth

[sKePTiKal]

Beth: in fact, I think the Ns will encourage, trick or engage us in being a mirror for the faults in themselves that they continue to deny. The "mirror-effect"... projection makes them feel better... through assigning the "fault" to someone other than themselves or through collaboration & agreement in a game of "ain't it awful about..." with someone else.

And because we feel bound to them... for all the reasons already talked about: fear, self-doubt, hopes to "fix" the broken spot in them, or to make ourselves so perfect that we FINALLY get into the real relationship we're hoping for (with a person who can't exist)....

because we feel bound to them - and this kind of mirror-game - we barely notice that we're participating in it AGAIN, until AGAIN, we suffer a blow to the same old wounds or scars.

What a new day it is, when we finally realize it's no longer necessary to be the mirror... we can simply be ourselves, feel our feelings and think our opinions... without engaging in the N-game with them. Simply walking away... if they insist.

[getnbtr]

 Simply walking away... if they insist.
[/quote]

This is something that works for me now. At one time I would argue my point and try to make sense of whatever. The walking away does work. Sanity is GOOD!!!!

My NH has inherited his N from his mom and it has been passed to one of our children. I find that they are devils to each other and to their immediate family.

They can also be fooled by other unrelated N's. Witnessing NH loose $ to one of his kind because this guy gave him a sob story, told him how rich he was and how he was going to take him on a hunting trip out west to his mansion of a cabin, then wanted money up front for a subcontracting job only to never show up...there was a reason he was looking for work an hour and a half away from his home! My NH has wasted time with other N business people "picking" his brain and promising him big jobs just to drop him in the end. It so hard to warn him about these people because they are telling him how great he is while raping him and our family of time and money. It seems the more I try to warn him, the faster he runs toward them. Now he loves telling these stories about the soab that did this to him! He LOVES telling his stories all twisted up, how he just knew it and I talked him into doing this!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH...so glad this board is here to vent to and understand how this can be. Thanks!!!!!!!!!

[gratitude28]

Yes, I do think they project as much as they can onto you...
When NM was here, we were in the car and we could not find a place we were looking for. She started in with, "Don't get upset." I said, "I'm not upset, just looking." So she countered with, "Yes, you are getting upset."
I am a calm person. It really takes a ton to shake me or move me from my center. But I realize that by doing what she did while here, she was able to make me doubt myself for all of my youth. She forced her feelings onto me. It makes it hard to understand when you are assigned a feeling, but don't HAVE the feeling. I think that is why it is so hard for us to get in touch with ourselves.
Get, I too think they like to be abused so that they can tell everyone about it. My NM will talk about a shopkeeper for years if she feels the person slighted her. No doubt my NM walked in with a rude attitude and set the person off...

[getnbtr]

my NM and NH have always done this to me, it seems the more I try to convince them that I don't feel a certain way the more they insist that I do...even to the point that they will run out and tell anyone that will listen to them that I have their feelings!
As much as they hated each other, they would side with each other to make me look the fool and insisted that I felt the way THEY did. So I get that!
I haven't talked to my NM for close to 15 years, it was too toxic for me and got worse when I saw her attacking my children and trying to work them against me. My NH does the same, yes, especially to our children. He hurts them constantly and can't figure out why they avoid him!?! If you tell him why you avoid him he becomes angry and blames it on everyone but himself. I feel so sad for myself that I let this happen to me more than once, I feel like I have wasted too many years trying to love people that wouldn't or couldn't love me back . I'm ready to pack it up with my NH soon so I can find my way without all this stupid senseless turmoil! I have found some friends that have had the same type of experience with someone close to them and they are very supportive. But...it's sooooo hard to trust after all that I have been through.

[gratitude28]

Get,
I wish you strenth and courage to Get-r-done and get away. It sounds like it is time. Are your children still with you? I can't imagine being married to an N... Fortunately I bypassed that situation. Do you have any serious plans yet or are you still in the beginning stages?
Love,
Beth

[Ami]

Dear Get
 I have been married to a man who has many N traits but is not a full NPD. It has been horrible. When I face myself honestly, I see that I stayed married for very simple reasons.
 I believed what he said about me. I believed that I was not worth being treated better(by myself or anyone else). I protested but down deep I believed him and my N M.
 I am not saying that you are like this. I am just sharing my own realization.        Love to you,  Ami

[getnbtr]

Thanks Beth,
I have five daughters, 14-23 years of age. The oldest two are on their own now, so I have three at home. The third child will be 21 in Sept., so she probably won't be with me too much longer. My fourth has special needs and it's hard for me to hold a job and be a good mom at the same time. I rely on my NH for support. My fifth is a lively sporty kid and keeps me busy running her around. My kids are great kids, they have had my love and support all along and they respect and love me. I wish that my NH would have given them and me this kind of support, but that didn't happen. So, he feels that he owns me...he tells me that too, even thought we decided together that I would stay home and take care of the family.
I know that I can't stay with him. Having caring people around me lately I feel the difference and I long to be in a caring and productive life. My NH belittles everything I do and say. He sabotages all of my efforts and basks in the glory of my accomplishments making them his! As he gets older he can't cover his real intentions very well and I am afraid that our business is going down hill more than I know. I hear stories from our employees and I can't talk to him about it because he takes it out on them for talking to me. It's just maddening.
The hardest thing about leaving him is our children, most of their friends have a set of parents that have been together for a long time, the kids know that I want to leave him but are afraid of "looking bad" around their friends.
I have been saving some money, but have not seen a lawyer yet so I am in the beginning stages.
 Sorry for the long story. Seems I have acquired diarrhea of the mouth since I started posting on this board! For over 2 years I just came on here and read...It has helped tremendously, now, all of a sudden here it comes.....thanks for caring Beth! (oops, got off the subject!) Well we know that this non N's can't tolerate N's!
Love,
Sondra

[getnbtr]

Hi Ami,
Thanks for sharing that with me, I know what you mean.
About six years ago I felt this way too. What woke me up was when I sent my second child away to a school because I didn't know what else to do. She is an N, I can tell that now. At the time I just knew that she was depressed and suicidal and I was exhausted trying to watch her 24/7 literally, I was in and out of her room all night for a month checking on her. Turns out she was playing a game, a very sick one. Wouldn't talk to me, told her friends that she lived in a hell hole,tormented her sisters, stole from us, it was bad! Anyway through this school we had to attend seminars and I finally woke up! My inner child wants to now bust out and live the life that I was meant to live, turns out through all of the mental abuse that I suffered I was allowing the abuse to continue with my NH. It's been a slow process for sure, but I know I deserve so much more than I have allowed myself to have spiritually, mentally, etc...her dad attended the seminars as well...fighting tooth and nail, but he did it...he can't remember any of it! But I sure did! I'm still trying to get there one day at a time, but I am getting there slowly.
Love,
 Sondra

[gratitude28]

Sondra,
I think it is wonderful that you are posting and making your thoughts concrete. I think that is a huge step towards healing. It seems you are on the right track and with courage you CAN do it!!!
Love,
Beth

[getnbtr]

Thanks Beth,
It feels good to hear someone say that to me!
Peace,
 Sondra

[sunblue]

I have wasted too many years trying to love people that wouldn't or couldn't love me back

Get:

I can so identify with this singular thought.  I have spent my whole life trying to get people I love to love me back...but they simply don't....and never will.  The challenge is in giving up that hope, that wish that you will be loved back.  In my personal case, the challenge is also in accepting that when I understand these people won't love me back, dealing with the loneliness and emptiness of being alone without anyone.

I also find myself being angry not only with my NM who was incapable of caring about me.....but also with my very co-dependent dad, who is not N, who has witnessed firsthand the cruelty of the N, and refused to do nothing except to enable and support my Nmom.  I can't excuse away his behavior to a personality disorder like N.

This weekend I am revisiting all this betrayal and neglect.  Once again, my Nmom chose to spend the entire Mother's Day weekend with my Nsis.  I had expected she would, just as she does every holiday, every weekend, every vacation, etc,....it still strikes a painful chord.  It is another reminder that she cares nothing about me and never will.

I've begun to accept, too, that the one brother I thought was "healthy" and exempt from the effects of N, has shown has true colors.  He is not cruel or N in nature, but he is selfish.  He makes no effort to have a relationship with me or spend time with me.  All he cares about is his own family (wife and child).  I've done everything for them and my niece...and when, on a whim, I decided to not be the one to take the initiative to see how long it would be before I'd get a phone call, you can imagine what happened.  I'm still waiting for that phone call a year and a half later.

So yes, I totally understand the sadness that comes with waiting and hoping that one day those you love will love you back...that they will demonstrate compassion, empathy and support...like other families do.  But it won't happen.

Now I have to figure out how to live a life with no one to turn to....It's hard.

For those of you who have your own children, hope you have a wonderful Mother's Day...and hope you can relish the love and care you receive form them and now dwell on the deserved love and care you never received from your Nmothers, fathers or partners.

Sun