Author Topic: Job Advise  (Read 31112 times)

mighty mouse

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2004, 09:13:27 PM »
Kelly,

This is my opinion, so I'm qualifying what I'm going to say right off the bat. You will never be an adult with this money arrangement with your mom. Adults don't get money from their parents, they find a way to work it out on their own. I'm not trying to be mean. I just think it's something you need to hear although I know you are processing a lot right now.

Hang in there. I hope you can muster up the fortitude to one day do without the "golden handcuffs" as someone so succintly put it. It's keeping you stuck in a place you don't seem to want to be.

MM

Anonymous

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2004, 09:18:18 PM »
Kelly,

Your mother can't help you. This is about your life. She's already living her life however she wants. You are at the wheel of your own life.  What she says is just more dust in the wind. Does this job have health insurance that covers therapy?

bunny

Lizbeth as Guest

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2004, 09:38:11 PM »
Kelly, I agree with the other posters here.  You need to get away from your mother's money and get out on your own.  You and your husband need to stand on your own 4 feet.  Don't expect help from her or anyone else for your kids for college or whatever, that is not what grown-ups who want to have self-respect and control of their own life do.  Live within your means and stop looking to other to help out.  This is what I have done my entire life and I have never been sorry for it.  I have been able to tell the N's in my life to get the hell out.  I owe nothing to any of them, though they owe plenty to me in many ways.  

Working hard and doing it yourself makes you strong and your children will look up to you for it.  In fact, there is nothing wrong with your children getting their own grants and loans for college to fill in wherever the gaps are.  It will make them take their education more seriously if they are going to have to pay for some of it.

Lizbeth

Anonymous

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #63 on: October 01, 2004, 08:46:11 AM »
Kell, glad you keep posting, talking and thinking.
Quote
I am not sure if I should trust her enough to let my guard down.

Trust yourself, your feelings and thoughts. Do you trust yourself enough (not trust her, trust you) to let your guard down? Can you defend yourself against whatever it is that might happen? (What is the worst that could happen?)

If you let your guard down, you might find she doesn’t ‘relate’ at all. That can be pretty tough. To try and let your guard down on purpose, to try and connect – and then find that the other person can’t understand, is unable to understand you. That can be quite revealing and therefore upsetting. If it happens and you can manage to deal with it, it’s a big positive step. Only you know how much hurt you can cope with. You don’t want to drive yourself nuts!

If you did let your guard down, become emotional, cry - she might be confused and frightened and try to get you to stop – to stop her being frightened. Or she might be cold and distant. Note: both of these reactions have nothing to do with you. It’s all about her and her world.

People can only control us if we let them. We think “you’re controlling me” instead of thinking about what we want, saying it and asserting our needs. In business terms, we want to negotiate a solution which benefits both parties and if we can’t, if the price is too high or the client demands too much, we have to walk away. No point fighting about it.  

Quote
So she agreed to sit down and talk.


Can you envisage a meeting with her, like a real adult business meeting? Where you have an agenda and you stick to the points you want to resolve (like having a mantra: this is my objective and I’ll keep repeating it until we resolve it).

Quote
Then she started giving me advise and I wanted to email back and tell her to butt out but I just let it go. If she continues to push, I'll thank her graciously but tell her that I need to figure ME out without her advise.


‘Letting it go’ is being mature, not reacting straight away, giving yourself time to think. Letting it go is very difficult to do. It is not weakness: it’s strength.

If someone says to you, angrily, “I don’t need your advise!” how do you feel? Rejected and angry yourself? If someone, anyone, offers advise you don’t have to reject it by telling them you don’t want it.

You can say: “thanks for the advise. I’ll consider it.” Then you have control, you decide what you want to think and what’s more, the person giving the advise knows you are in control. You take responsibility and control for yourself. After all, it is your issue, nobody else’s. You own it, no-one can take it away from you. There is strength in that control of self.

Hope this helps, usual disclaimer from me Lottery Guest  - and what about bunny’s question? Could you get therapy on insurance? If so, would you feel okay about doing that? Or is therapy for wimps?! (joke) :)

Anonymous

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #64 on: October 01, 2004, 12:40:23 PM »
Hey everyone, Again, I appreciate all the input.  And I like the analogy of "golden handcuffs..."  That is what it feels like.  But you know, if she wants to pay for my children's college, then let her.  I cannot afford it.  But I would rather have her make the arrangements with my kids then through me.  She keeps me in the loop probably because I am the mom but I really think it is to keep her hooks in me.  I know she helps my nephew with his college but she communicates with HIM and not my brother.

And I am trying to break away.  I really am.  I hope you all know that this is a process - not a hatchet.  I have done the hatchet thing to her before like setting boundaries - BAMMM!  It totally freaked her out because I just let her have it (that thread about acting out?  Me, totally!!)

I am still looking for jobs.  I am a little scared as I have said before.  The entanglements with my mom have been in place since I was in my late 20s.  I really want to be free from the financial things but I really cannot afford some of these things and she can.  So what?  Do you think I should just refuse her help and hurt my children in the process?  I know, I know, you all think I should just break away...................and I am.  Slowly and methodically.  But I just can't NOT take that money for college if she is willing to give it (and like I said before, she hasn't really said she is going to, she has just eluded to it!!!)

bunny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 713
Job Advise
« Reply #65 on: October 01, 2004, 01:27:54 PM »
Actually, Kelly, I'm not sure you should get a different job. You may end up with a boss similar to your mother (even if it's a man).

Here's my feedback in a nutshell:

(1) Keep taking financial aid from her. Pay the emotional price with gratitude rather than resentment. Don't mix this up with your job. They are two different things.

(2) At work, figure out how to deal with a narcissistic boss. This isn't about your mother, it's about a narcissistic boss. N bosses are everywhere and you'll have to deal with them sooner or later.

(3) Don't discuss your emotional problems with your mother. I wouldn't discuss my emotional problems with my boss or mother who caused them. That is futile, feeds the problem, and makes it worse.

(3) Get into therapy even if your mother pays for it.

bunny

Lizbeth As Guest

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2004, 02:07:47 PM »
If everything she gives comes along with strings, her giving your children money for college will not be what is good for them in the long run.  She will feel like she has a right to run their lives, even if she can't run yours any longer.  When someone wants to control you they dangle the carrot like your mother is doing.  Call her bluff.  Let your kids figure out what to do about getting money for college.  My husband put himself through with no help from anyone, it can be done and we don't have to put up with cr&p from anyone.

All you are doing is allowing her to pass her legacy of control down to another generation and that is not fair to your children at all.

Lizbeth

Quote from: Anonymous
Hey everyone, Again, I appreciate all the input.  And I like the analogy of "golden handcuffs..."  That is what it feels like.  But you know, if she wants to pay for my children's college, then let her.  I cannot afford it.  But I would rather have her make the arrangements with my kids then through me.  She keeps me in the loop probably because I am the mom but I really think it is to keep her hooks in me.  I know she helps my nephew with his college but she communicates with HIM and not my brother.

And I am trying to break away.  I really am.  I hope you all know that this is a process - not a hatchet.  I have done the hatchet thing to her before like setting boundaries - BAMMM!  It totally freaked her out because I just let her have it (that thread about acting out?  Me, totally!!)

I am still looking for jobs.  I am a little scared as I have said before.  The entanglements with my mom have been in place since I was in my late 20s.  I really want to be free from the financial things but I really cannot afford some of these things and she can.  So what?  Do you think I should just refuse her help and hurt my children in the process?  I know, I know, you all think I should just break away...................and I am.  Slowly and methodically.  But I just can't NOT take that money for college if she is willing to give it (and like I said before, she hasn't really said she is going to, she has just eluded to it!!!)

mighty mouse

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2004, 03:56:47 PM »
Lizbeth,

I was thinking this same thing.

This sort of thing leaves one in a fetal position so to speak. It's our job as parents to prepare our kids for the world and the world is a hard place sometimes. I think it would be more of a kindness to use the "hatchet" and cut the strings. It certainly would be a better role model than passively accepting money because Mom wants to give it. I don't see any value in that type of dependent thinking. They would actually develop more character and their education would mean more to them.

MM

Lizbeth as Guest

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2004, 04:00:56 PM »
Yes, this is very true, thank you for saying it so well.  

Lizbeth

Quote from: mighty mouse
Lizbeth,

I was thinking this same thing.

This sort of thing leaves one in a fetal position so to speak. It's our job as parents to prepare our kids for the world and the world is a hard place sometimes. I think it would be more of a kindness to use the "hatchet" and cut the strings. It certainly would be a better role model than passively accepting money because Mom wants to give it. I don't see any value in that type of dependent thinking. They would actually develop more character and their education would mean more to them.

MM

dee

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2004, 04:15:34 PM »
http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/money.html

This is from the web site Bunny mentioned on another thread but it's very interesting reading for this thread.

Dee

Anonymous

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2004, 09:57:09 PM »
Ok, here's a stretch - after reading that link about the "poison" of money, I have been looking into a buying a mobile home.  When I was very young (early 20s) I took home less than $1000 per month.  My husband probably made the same.  We lived in a cute little bungalow and we making it.  Then my mom decided to help us go to college and the rest is history.  The more money she gave us the more guilty I felt and the more emeshed we became.  My husband became a huge slacker, he acted like a frat boy while my mom paid our way to an expensive college.  The minute we graduated he left me for another woman only to have my mom convince him of his mental instability and got him into inpatient counseling......so there is something to be said about "needing" financial help from parents.  And the fact that my mom holds it so tightly and when we need help, we have to ask.  She never "blesses."  So all that to say that everything I have read and heard from all of you just underlines the fact that the more she gives, the more guilt I feel and the more obligation I owe her.  I'll never grow up without taking a huge step back and reevaluating her place in my life.................................oohhh the quote "the money is the root of all evil........"  really applies here doesn't it?  And to think that I am willing to sell my soul for a few material things.
kell

Lizbeth as Guest

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2004, 10:15:04 PM »
Yep, Kelly, sounds like you're kind of getting it there.  You are selling your soul (and your children's souls as well) for material possessions.  How many rich people are happy anyway?  The only happy people I know are those who have made their own lives what they want them to be.  If money comes from their hard work, that's great, but it's not the money that makes them happy.  

The question is now, what are you willing to do about all of this?  I know it's not easy, nothing worthwhile ever is.  I feel for you, believe me.  I have been tired and exhausted but I can truly say I have never regretted working hard and being a good example to my kids (even if they don't always follow that example).  Now at 51 I am starting to enjoy the fruits of my labors and know what I have is mine, I don't have to look to someone else for my financial security or wait for someone to die.  That money is never ours to begin with.  An N parent can give it all away and you find out about it at the reading of the will.  And you still have it wrong, your mother isn't obligated to "bless" you with anything at all, you are grown ups, you decided to have a family, it is on you and your husband to make your way in life.  That idea of giving without your asking smacks of your sense of entitlement.    No grown person is entitled to anything they didn't earn themselves.  This is why you feel guilty, you know that it is wrong to be asking because you are not a child.

Lizbeth

Quote from: Anonymous
Ok, here's a stretch - after reading that link about the "poison" of money, I have been looking into a buying a mobile home.  When I was very young (early 20s) I took home less than $1000 per month.  My husband probably made the same.  We lived in a cute little bungalow and we making it.  Then my mom decided to help us go to college and the rest is history.  The more money she gave us the more guilty I felt and the more emeshed we became.  My husband became a huge slacker, he acted like a frat boy while my mom paid our way to an expensive college.  The minute we graduated he left me for another woman only to have my mom convince him of his mental instability and got him into inpatient counseling......so there is something to be said about "needing" financial help from parents.  And the fact that my mom holds it so tightly and when we need help, we have to ask.  She never "blesses."  So all that to say that everything I have read and heard from all of you just underlines the fact that the more she gives, the more guilt I feel and the more obligation I owe her.  I'll never grow up without taking a huge step back and reevaluating her place in my life.................................oohhh the quote "the money is the root of all evil........"  really applies here doesn't it?  And to think that I am willing to sell my soul for a few material things.
kell

Lizbeth as Guest

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2004, 10:15:20 PM »
Yep, Kelly, sounds like you're kind of getting it there.  You are selling your soul (and your children's souls as well) for material possessions.  How many rich people are happy anyway?  The only happy people I know are those who have made their own lives what they want them to be.  If money comes from their hard work, that's great, but it's not the money that makes them happy.  

The question is now, what are you willing to do about all of this?  I know it's not easy, nothing worthwhile ever is.  I feel for you, believe me.  I have been tired and exhausted but I can truly say I have never regretted working hard and being a good example to my kids (even if they don't always follow that example).  Now at 51 I am starting to enjoy the fruits of my labors and know what I have is mine, I don't have to look to someone else for my financial security or wait for someone to die.  That money is never ours to begin with.  An N parent can give it all away and you find out about it at the reading of the will.  And you still have it wrong, your mother isn't obligated to "bless" you with anything at all, you are grown ups, you decided to have a family, it is on you and your husband to make your way in life.  That idea of giving without your asking smacks of your sense of entitlement.    No grown person is entitled to anything they didn't earn themselves.  This is why you feel guilty, you know that it is wrong to be asking because you are not a child.

Lizbeth

Quote from: Anonymous
Ok, here's a stretch - after reading that link about the "poison" of money, I have been looking into a buying a mobile home.  When I was very young (early 20s) I took home less than $1000 per month.  My husband probably made the same.  We lived in a cute little bungalow and we making it.  Then my mom decided to help us go to college and the rest is history.  The more money she gave us the more guilty I felt and the more emeshed we became.  My husband became a huge slacker, he acted like a frat boy while my mom paid our way to an expensive college.  The minute we graduated he left me for another woman only to have my mom convince him of his mental instability and got him into inpatient counseling......so there is something to be said about "needing" financial help from parents.  And the fact that my mom holds it so tightly and when we need help, we have to ask.  She never "blesses."  So all that to say that everything I have read and heard from all of you just underlines the fact that the more she gives, the more guilt I feel and the more obligation I owe her.  I'll never grow up without taking a huge step back and reevaluating her place in my life.................................oohhh the quote "the money is the root of all evil........"  really applies here doesn't it?  And to think that I am willing to sell my soul for a few material things.
kell

Anonymous

  • Guest
Job Advise
« Reply #73 on: October 02, 2004, 09:47:07 AM »
Boy, you guys can smack me upside the head!!  (I know, I know, I need it sometimes so I am NOT being defensive!!!)  Wow!  That smarts.

Except for Bunny.  Bunny I think you have a more realistic approach.  I have been a runner all my life.  If something gets a little too difficult to deal with, bam, off I go.  Getting a new job.  Marrying a man after only knowing him six months.  I am not a patient person and am known for my "knee jerk" reactions to stress, advise, conflict.  I used to go to counseling and couldn't get out of the session fast enough to put into place what we had talked about.  (Seems like I got that one from Nmom - she calls emergency meetings because she wants things to happen now - instead of waiting until next week.)

And the sense of "entitlement?"  Imagine living in a home where you wanted for nothing.  Then you grow up and have to struggle.  And you know your parents have plenty of money.  And your parents neglected you when you were a child and didn't give you the tools to make a plan, and work the plan.  So then you wake up one morning and your life is a mess and part of the fault lies at your neglectful, prideful parents' feet.  My brother said it well.  He said, "After all the crap my mother put us through, she owes us!"  So maybe I need to erase this sense of "entitlement."  Maybe we (my brother and I) have to realize that when my mother dies, and the will is read, it might be just like Joan Crawfords.  We may not get a dime.  So why do we live life like we will??

So I am trying to get it through my fat head that I will be happier if I just do what I need to do.  Be nice to my mother.  Go to counseling (even if mother pays for it) and get on with my life!!  I need to make a plan and work the plan!!  Have a birthday that ends in a 5 next week.  Maybe that can kind of be a milestone - a half way mark (if I make it to 90, and I should since my gram is 89 and going strong and her mom made it to her 90s...............)

Thanks for your input, and thanks, Bunny for your gentleness!  Kell

bunny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 713
Job Advise
« Reply #74 on: October 02, 2004, 11:50:10 AM »
Quote from: Anonymous
And the sense of "entitlement?"  Imagine living in a home where you wanted for nothing.  Then you grow up and have to struggle.  And you know your parents have plenty of money.


Unfortunately your parents put their children into an impossible bind of dependency and helplessness. But they still don't owe you anything. Once we reach adulthood, no one owes each other anything but respect. That's it. You don't owe them, they don't owe you. This is unfair but kind of how it works.

Your recognition of the 'entitlement' is very very excellent. I hope you'll get into therapy and get into that more deeply. It could be very interesting. Obviously your mother feels super-entitled so you didn't get this idea out of nowhere. But you might want to work on it as it doesn't help us in life.

Good work, Kell.

bunny