Job Advise

[kelly]

Hello All!  I'm relatively new to this but please hear me out.....

Some of you may have heard me say that I have worked "with" (and I'll use that term lightly, since I really work for her - and she wants me to be a puppet..............) my mom for over 10 years and it drives me crazy.  Most have said, Go!  No amount of money is worth losing your soul for.

So I have a job interview on Friday and am looking elsewhere.  The problem is I have done this before.  I left my job and took a small cut in pay.  My new job worked me five days a week.  Both weekend days.  The other three days usually amounted to a 9:45 am to 9:15 pm schedule.  I left because the hours were too demanding for me with three children and a new husband (I had been married two weeks when I took the job.)  I only lasted a month and quit and asked my mom if I could come back.  

My hours at our business are 9 am to 3 pm Monday through Friday.  Great hours and great pay.  I can pretty much come and go as I please.  I can attend any classroom party for my kids, dental appointments, doctor appointments, etc.  I can take vacation whenever I want.

My dilemma is this.  Should I stay or should I go?  I have everything I've ever wanted at this job - except my N mother who "says" she is in semi-retirement, etc.  I watch her self-promote within the industry, calling anyone who is anyone and volunteers for boards and committees, etc.  Then she comes to me and others for the right words to say while at the board meeting.  She makes my life a living hell.  BUT - money, hours, some freedom.  Condemnation, guilt, shame.  Constant fighting.

New job.  New kid on the block.  Learning curve is steep.  No vacation.  Don't know about the pay yet.  I'm thinking if I get the job I'll only take it if the pay is better than what I have now and the hours are not too demanding.  Been married a couple of years now and the kids are older.  One is driving.

Any suggestions???

Kelly

[seeker]

Hi K,

Some mothers with school age kids opt for a school-based job (great hours and benefits) so they have same vacation days and hours...you don't necessarily have to work at the same school (gets cozy sometimes).  Just a thought.  

Seeker

[kelly]

Thanks, Seeker, but again I run into the pay issue.  My husband and I have financial obligations that need to be met - plus my oldest starts college next year and there is that......................so, unless they make me vice principal I don't think that will work.  But thanks!

Kelly

[Anonymous]

What does your husband say?

bunny

[kelly]

Well, he just wants me to be happy.  He said we could trade in our van for a cheap car to elimate a car payment.  He has never been one who wants to get anything from my parents but I have always held out hope that I might get some inheritance.................but when I read all the posts about old aged Nmoms it makes me think I might spend the next 25 years miserable with my mom.  By then I'll be 80 and my whole life will full of the angst I have felt for all of my adult years (and the angst I felt as a child but I couldn't put my finger on the feeling..........)  I mean, I spend my whole life being groomed by my mother to dress like her and act like her and be like her and she spends her whole life being mad at me because I don't want to.  She considers it rebellious (can you be rebellious at 45?) or disrespectful (is disagreeing=disrepect?)

So my husband is on my side, but if I leave and things don't work out the way we had planned then he gets on my case and makes my life miserable from another side............................can't win for losing.

Best case scenario.  Quit.  Love the new job.  End of story.

[StaceyLynn]

Hi there Kelly,
I'm finding your post almost spooky, due to how similiar our stories area.
My mom is the major N in my life.  She too is the founder of my family's business.  I have 2 young children that just last September started school.  My hours were 9-3pm (in order to get the kids), and I was also granted as much flexibility as I needed.  If there was a function at school...it wasn't a problem.  I could work anywhere else and have the flexibility that I did there.  Of couse, there's a price to pay with what seemed to be an ideal relationship.  My mother is a classic control freak and this was also an ideal situation for her to know exactly what I was up to.  Not to mention she also offered my husband a job as well.  We came to learn a few months after he started that she never hired my husband based on his job performance or experience.  She ultimately offered him a job because she was not happy with the fact that he previously worked as an executive in a company that required him to travel about 75% of the year.  Yes, this was very hard on me/us, but we were managing.  I guess my mother felt that the travel was completely unacceptable, and offered him the job to more or less make sure he was home for me and she again, could be involved in every detail of our lives.
     I should have also explained prior to this info that my mother has NEVER liked my husband.  Her reasons have been made very clear....he's not of the same religion as I am.  As well as, he's been one of few people that has disagreed with my mother.  He hasn't ever been afraid to go head to head with her, and this just enrages her more.

So, after 8 months of working with her daily (forgot to mention that I have always had a rocky relationship with her since childhood), I couldn't bare another day.  I resigned and left.  Well what do you think happened next?  She FIRED my husband a month later!!!!  She terminated him with a ready to go legal contract drawn up by her lawyers.  The contract stipualted that he was not to pursue emplyee in a similiar industry along the eastern seaboard for 2 years!!!!!  Along with many other crazy/sick stipulations.  He was made to turn in his computer, had to hand in his key to the building, and was ushered out like a common criminal!!!!  He was made to return to the office that evening to collect his personal belonging (which I might add...my parents both met him there and watched over him the whole time)!!!  My mother proceeded to change the garage code at their house to prevent my husband from entering their home and possibly tearing the place up!!!

So...bottom line...this was the straw that broke my back.  She took away our financial stability, has made no attempt to apologize.  She feels justified in doing all of this.  Has made no attempt to try and salvage a relationship with me.  It took 31 years to figure out what she was (mind you this was before this incident) and mourn the dream of having that fairy tale picture of what I wanted her to be.  I was well on my way to feeling good for the first time in my life.  In a cetain way, I'm almost happy this awful event happened.  It was just what I needed to cut the cord for good.  I no longer have much of a relationship with my parents.  I've been happier and working hard on being a better me.   A final word of advice...

DO NOT WORK IN A FAMILY BUSINESS!!!! ESPECIALLY WITH A FAMILY MEMBER THAT'S AN N!!!!!!

I hope all works out for you.

[kelly]

StaceyLynn:  Well, Stacey, you are the second person in this forum who has had similar stories as mine.  The other gal, Ellie, had the religion stuffed down her throat, similar to mine.  And you?  What are you doing now?  You and your husband are struggling?  But it's worth it?

Originally the business was bought "for" my husband (ex) and I.  She got involved because my ex was incompetent (and he was.)  He left me for another woman earlier in our marriage and my mother jumped in and convinced him to go to inpatient counseling.  She spent thousands of dollars trying to "fix" him so that her daughter wouldn't have to go through a divorce (and somehow tarnish the family name.)  So I stayed with him an additional five years - very unhappy - but I did what my mother wanted.  Then someone I trusted gave me "permission" to divorce him.  I needed permission.  My Nmom wouldn't do it!  And I was so controlled by her.  Felt tied to her monetarily, etc.

So then I started dating a very messed up alcoholic guy.  At first she wanted nothing to do with him and didn't give me her "blessing" on that relationship.  He didn't work after his divorce (loser.)  He went to my mom and told her he could help turn our business around.  She hired him and had him move into her basement.  He lived there over a year rent free.  Meanwhile, I broke up with him and wanted him out of the business.  My mom sided with him and tried to "fix" him too.  She got him in to inpatient counseling for his alcohol addiction and he lived on disability insurance that the business provided for over a year.  This is when I went over the deep end.  Two times in my life she had gotten involved in my relationships and took over and tried to fix the men.  Yes, I had made poor choices - I admit that.  But when she jumped in the second time I lost it!  I blew up!!  I mean really blew up.  I yelled and screamed and slammed doors.  I laid in bed and cried and cried and cried.  That's when I went and got the other job which held me hostage morning til night.......so I went back.

For awhile my mom and I just didn't talk about anything personal.  I married a man who she didn't approve of (again - he's a Lutheran, they're not......................plus I didn't let her get anywhere near him...didn't invite her to the wedding, etc.)  We just kind of non-communicated.  I tried to be nice.  I sent her a card telling her I loved her.  I just thought maybe I could kill her with kindness and it would turn our relationship around.  Well, then she called me into her office and asked me why I held her at arms length and why we couldn't have a close, intimate relationship and I basically said, because I cannot trust you to not get too involved in my life so I choose to keep you away.  I have stopped going to her church.  She thinks I am bad because I don't force my kids to get up and go to Sunday School and church and Wednesday night church, etc.  Then I realized that she never got involved in my life at all when I was a child except for the church thing.  We had to go to church all the time, but she never went to a parent/teacher conference or to a class party or anything else.  Just church.

So are you saying that I should run as fast as I can the other way regardless of the strain it may put on me and my family???

Kelly

[Anonymous]

Kelly,

What jumps out at me in your story and StaceyLynn's is the issue of separation-individuation. This is what makes it tough to separate even if you want to. It causes the massive ambivalence. Your mothers did not allow you as toddlers to separate/individuate because they could not tolerate it. The mothers were the cause of this problem and they can't separate to this day. But people CAN achieve separation-individuation as adults. I did! My suggestion is to see a really good therapist. It can help tremendously.

bunny

[kelly]

Bunny:  Yes, I have been to a therapist and individuation is a big one.  But with me, she wasn't even there as a child.  I remember one time when I was about 6 she was at college and the neighbor was supposed to watch me after kindergarten but I went home and the neighbor let me.  I remember climbing up to the top of the cabinets and ate a bunch of chewable vitamins - my mom was off getting her college degree - on her way to making it!  We were just a bother to her and her road to fame and fortune.

The emeshment came when I grew up.  In my 20s she started to really impose herself and her wishes on me.  She infiltrated all areas of my life.  I didn't even realize it.  It was almost like she made it impossible to do anything, or make any decision without her.  And if I did then the guilt and shame messages came through STRONG.

So, yes, I am screwed up.  And the separation and individuation is so hard - especially on her - because to her it is out and out rejection!  She can't stand it.  Then she cannot understand how I could do this to her when she has given me so much money.  Almost like, "this is how I get thanked for all I've done.......nothing but resentment and disrespect."

[mighty mouse]

Kelly,

Please don't take this wrong. I couldn't grow up until I "got it" about my mother and started seperating from her. It's essential to do this. You must have an identity of your own.

Be creative. If you really want this, get rid of things you can live without. There are a bunch of things you really don't need...pare down. You really can do it if you put some effort and thought into it. Make sacrifices. This is what adults do. What if that business were gone tommorrow? You would need to do something different. And you would find that you could indeed do it. But it may require some tough decisions.

Look at:  telephone (do you need a bunch of extra services really?)

cell phone...get rid of it if it's expensive

cable...again, do you need all the channels you don't watch anyway?

Pets?  Can you find a good home for one or two if you have more than you can handle comfortably?

groceries?

Refinance the house to a lower rate if possible.

Cars? Get rid of expensive car payments and get a used car.

People sometimes think they can't live without this stuff. We've been barraged with ads saying we need all this stuff and we just don't. It will be worth it if you can get your identity (soul) back from your destructive mom and it might make you more resolute with dealing with your husband if he complains about it as well.

Kelly,  YOU need to do this for YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope I don't sound too bossy (I do a have a tendancy to state things in a "damn the torpedoes" fashion), but it sounds like your house has been on fire and you're letting it burn and staying inside to consume the flames.

Good luck to you.

MM

[Wildflower]

Hi Kelly,

I just wanted to chime in with this tiny bit.  Even if you found a job that was better than your current job with your Nmom, separating from her would be hard.  Going through the process of letting go (of soooo many things, like hopes that things will get better), is very hard.  But it has to be done.

I hear you thinking about your kids and trying to make sound financial plans regarding their education, but what about the example you're setting for them?  What are you teaching them by continuing to work with your Nmom?

And what about you?  As you said, you've been reading about all these aging Nmoms (oh, and I'm convinced they'll outlive us all for sheer stubbornness I've got a grandNmom proving my point as we speak), and you're worried that you'll be old yourself by the time you receive the inheritance.  But just consider this.  What's more important, money or knowing who you are?  

Being around an N sucks the life out of you, the YOU out of you.  When you're beginning to learn about the effects of an N, it can be so disorienting and scary - and I know some who'd sometimes rather go back to the comfort of where things were before because it's what they know.  How much harder will this be if you're still interacting with your Nmom every day of the week?

So what's more important?  A job that fits your shedule and income requirements, or setting a good example for your children by finding the courage to find yourself?

If your husband really wants you to be happy, then he'll understand that the path to your happiness (and ultimately your happiness together) depends on you finding your way through some tough times ahead.

But as tough as this process may be, there are so many here to help you through the rough patches.

Best wishes,
Wildflower

[kelly]

Guys and Gals:  I appreciate the encouragement.  This forum has been the only place I have seen and heard people talk each other up and not judge.  That is so refreshing.

Scary?  You bet.  Scary to go.  Scary to stay.  I am so used to having my mother meddle in my life and when I finally think I am getting a reprieve, she's back for more.  

My aunt discribed how she feels when she is in the same room with my mom (my mom's little sister.)  They were making plans for an uncle and the three siblings were in the room together.  My aunt said she felt like when my mother walked into the room it was like she was a huge elephant which took up all the space and my aunt was squashed underneath her.  Anything she added to the conversation was interrupted and changed and my aunt is 57 years old!!!  Still hasn't "earned" the right for a voice!!

I'm moving that way!

Kelly

[kelly]

This is Kelly, again.  Well I picked up my daughter at school for an ortho appointment and my mom called me on the (expensive!!) cell phone.  I think my heart started racing........................all she said is that she would pick up my daughter from school if I wanted her to.  Then she started asking me about work today and we had a half hour phone conversation about work.  And that is how it has been for years.  If we are away from work we talk about work.  If we are at work, we talk about work.  I see her almost everyday.  It's better now that I don't go to church with her.  She used to call me on Saturdays and ask if I wanted to go shopping or something.  It is a pretty bad entanglement - but getting better.  And I think all the encouragement I am receiving from all of you will help me get my life under control and point me in the right direction!!

Need to jump out of that burning house and save my life!  But you know, whenever I talk to my 17 year old daughter about my mom she tells me to get over myself and stop whining!!  Unfortunately I think she is a carbon copy of my mother!!

Kelly

[Anonymous]

Then she cannot understand how I could do this to her when she has given me so much money.  Almost like, "this is how I get thanked for all I've done.......nothing but resentment and disrespect."

Has a therapist helped you to withstand her acting out? That's how to win with an N: withstand their temper tantrums, sulking, and guilt-tripping. Don't let them see you upset by it. You can be upset by it, but only show the vulnerability to the therapist and safe people. When the N sees that you are not falling apart because of their acting out and not losing it, sometimes they actually start showing respect.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Need to jump out of that burning house and save my life!  But you know, whenever I talk to my 17 year old daughter about my mom she tells me to get over myself and stop whining!!  Unfortunately I think she is a carbon copy of my mother!!

Teens tend to be narcissistic by definition. I personally wouldn't confide in her about her grandmother. There is a bit of a boundary issue there. She shouldn't be involved in her mom's problems. Know what I mean?

bunny