Author Topic: Painful truth.  (Read 6475 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2009, 12:01:43 PM »
This article wound up referencing marriage at the end, but I had a lot to learn from it.
I wonder why the author did not include family relationships, do y'all think it's inappropriate to apply this kind of thinking?

http://www.enotalone.com/article/2285.html

A safe relationship space exists when two or more people intend to learn and are willing to take full personal responsibility for their own feelings, while accepting that their energy and behavior affects others. When both individuals fully accept that they are a part of an energy system, i.e., they recognize that each person's energy affects the other, and they are willing to take responsibility both for their own controlling behavior and for their responses to the controlling behavior of others, they create a safe relationship space. Such a space is a circle of loving energy that results from each person's deep desire to learn what is most loving to themselves and others. To create a safe relationship space, all persons involved need to be deeply committed to learning about their own controlling behavior, rather than focusing on what another is doing. Rather than giving themselves up to avoid rejection or attempting to get others to give themselves up to feel safe, each person is devoted to their own and the other's highest good, supporting themselves and each other in becoming all they can be.

Many of us have spent a great deal of time in unsafe relationship spaces. In fact, some of us have never experienced a safe relationship space because many, if not most, of us have not learned to create a safe inner space by staying in a loving Adult frame of mind when our fears are activated. When our fears of being rejected, abandoned, engulfed and controlled are triggered, most of us immediately retreat into our learned controlling behaviors. We may move our focus into our minds to avoid our feelings; we may attack, blame, defend, demand, explain, deny, judge, criticize, shut down, withdraw, resist, give in and comply, placate, lie, become overly nice, and so on. Of course, the moment we act out in controlling ways, our behavior may trigger another's fears of being rejected or controlled, and that person may then react in controlling ways as well, creating a vicious circle and an unsafe relationship space.

If, when these fears are activated, we focus on who is at fault or who started it, we perpetuate an unsafe relationship space. Blaming another for our fears (and for our own reactive, unloving behavior) makes the relationship space more unsafe than ever. Then both people in the relationship end up feeling bad, each of us believing that our pain is the result of the other person's behavior. We feel victimized, helpless, stuck, and disconnected from our partner. We desperately want the other person to see what they are doing that (we think) is causing our pain. We think that if the other person only understands this, they will change--and we exhaust ourselves trying to figure out how to make them understand.

Over time, being in an unsafe relationship space creates distance between the people involved. When we have not created a safe space in which to speak our complete, heartfelt truth about ourselves, the joy between us gradually dies. And the more we hold back our innermost feelings and experiences, the shallower our connection becomes. Our intimacy crumbles.

In friendships, marriages, and work relationships, our joy, electricity, and creativity get lost as we each give up parts of ourselves in an attempt to feel safe. In romantic relationships, passion dries up. Superficiality, boredom, fighting, and apathy take its place. We try valiantly to figure out what went wrong. But too often we ask, "What am I doing wrong?" or "What are you doing wrong?" rather than inquiring into the health of the relationship space itself.

Only when we look at the relationship space will we see what we are each doing to create the unsafe space. The dual fears of losing the other through rejection and losing ourselves through being swallowed up by the other are the underlying cause of our unloving, reactive behavior. These fears are deeply rooted. They cannot be healed or overcome by getting someone else's love. On the contrary, we must heal these fears before we can share love--give and receive love--with each other.

The key to doing this is learning how to create a safe inner space where we can work with and overcome our fears of rejection and engulfment. This is a process, not an event. Practicing the process of Inner Bonding gradually creates inner safety as we learn to take personal responsibility for our own feelings and behavior. Inner Bonding guides us in defining ourselves internally through the eyes of our personal spiritual guidance, instead of externally through performance, looks, and others' approval. In addition, it provides us with a clear process for conflict resolution that can be used in any relationship difficulty. Instead of love eroding with time, love deepens daily, supporting each person in the sacred journey of the soul's evolution.

Any two people who are willing to learn to create their own inner sense of safety can also learn to create a safe relationship space where their intimacy and passion will flourish and their love will endure.

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Ami

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2009, 12:23:28 PM »
That is WONDERFUL!     Thanks Hops         Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

sKePTiKal

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2009, 12:44:48 PM »
That bit you posted is SO GOOD... I'm going to send it on to MY daughter.

A relationship is a relationship is a relationship, I think. What changes in the type of relationship is the scale and depth of interaction and caring. The size and content of the safe space (we have boundaries on this for less intimate relationships). So, in general, yes I think the concepts and idea can apply to parents and children. After all, that's where we learn how to interact with all others, right?

In this specific instance, I think it will help you suss out your situation. Something else that occurs to me Hops, 'coz it touches on something I'm dancing around with myself, is the generational transmission of characteristics, beliefs, and experiences of abuse. I can see where I've passed on some things, regrettably, to my Ds... because I didn't get to where I am now when they needed me to be. It takes my breath away to think of how I used to be... and how oblivious I was... and how ignorant (uneducated) I was emotionally.

There's no un-do button either. Only trying to make sure that I share what I know now with them and trusting the gods that I didn't unwittingly lock them into their own little, dark boxes. They swear I didn't... and I am not always allowed to offer unsolicited  advice... but I can share what I know. They don't always appreciate me implying that they might have some things to work on themselves, either. I try anyway.

I had one rule for them, when they got to be older. No matter what they did, how horrible it was, no matter how angry I felt about it... we would ALWAYS be able to talk about it and I would always love them. Maybe not "just that second"... but we would talk it through. It was my promise to not abandon them emotionally, I think... no shunning allowed. The oldest D pushed me as close as I've ever been to doing that. She's "not right" in serious ways that I have a hard time dealing with - triggers "my mother" nightmares and horrors. But I do still speak with her and see her every few months.

Are you worrying about this too, Hops?
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2009, 12:49:07 PM »
Hops:

I can only imagine you pictured your relationship with your d......

as I pictured relationships in my life.

Definately good tools and perspectives...... not just for marriage.

I'm reminded of a friend's quote:

"Two reasonable people can work anything out."

I believe that remaining reasonable, while dealing with unreasonable people, is out of whack too.

What does that mean?

Are we back to boundary setting and enforcement?

Is feeling heartbroken and victimized a learned controlling behavior?  
 
I don't really understand how relationships, with only one reasonable person involved, can work out.

I know I rambled a bit there.

Thanks for the post.

Mo2








 




sKePTiKal

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2009, 02:40:10 PM »
That's REALLY good point, Mo2... so good, I have to go and think on it.


Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2009, 03:35:03 PM »
Quote
I had one rule for them, when they got to be older. No matter what they did, how horrible it was, no matter how angry I felt about it... we would ALWAYS be able to talk about it and I would always love them. Maybe not "just that second"... but we would talk it through. It was my promise to not abandon them emotionally, I think... no shunning allowed.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm worried about, except the other way around (her shunning me). She knows without a single doubt that I will always love her and would never abandon her.

I also fear that in crying into her voicemail at 4:00 when I was so worked up about the money crisis that I came across as weak and sniveling, and now she loathes me. Gawd, she might replay the message. She does NOT like "weakness". This is a young woman who enjoys going to boxing matches. I am an old-ing woman who can't stand violence.

M02, I think being wounded and victimized is only controlling when you use it to guilt the other (which I have done, surely) and otherwise, it may be an organism's natural and forgivable response to a blow on a bruise. What hurts, hurts. And, as is what I think is true for me right now, it's probably both.

I don't know. I am confused and sad. When she is unkind, I am afraid (for my own self, as I have noone else who might care about me in old age--and do I want to be vulnerable to someone who can be so cruel to me?) and I am sad (I failed to transmit kindness and honesty as key values).

Thank god I have a therapy appt. tomorrow.

I know the BEST response would be self confidence, where her implicit threat of abandonment (or NC, same thing) -- or her behaviors that I INTERPRET as threat of abandonment...did not shake me.

If I were less well trained in pain, perhaps I wouldn't feel so much.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Hopalong

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2009, 10:43:26 PM »
Color me exhausted but relieved.

She called. I was at work so couldn't talk freely, so she rambled a few circuitous things that seemed to suggest:
--phone problems
--money problems
--bunch of stress due to confronting a professor

Didn't matter to me. I just said, "I'm so glad to hear your voice." Later we exchanged emails and agreed she'll call me tomorrow. I don't think the money issue will be resolved but my fears of abandonment are assuaged... She'll be in town for one night Sunday.

Meanwhile I am SO glad I see my counselor tomorrow, as he will work with me on how to handle "the talk"...best as I can.

Longer term, I have work to do.
I need to develop more detachment and establish more serious boundaries, else when there's another major stressful period in her life, I'll be the outlet/target, and that's not okay with me.

I have resolved not to loan .. ever. And, I do want to ask her how she plans to handle this debt, if she does. (With his guidance on wording, etc.)

Longer term, my work is to establish a stronger self so I don't completely dissolve when she withdraws. It's not healthy.

The panic doesn't serve anything, except to make me miserable.

This has been a very serious challenge to our relationship and our bond. It will never break in terms of love, but she really subjected me to very very severe stress and did not deal with me as an "honest broker".

Her excuses may be legitimate but they're legion, so I need to learn effective ways of NOT setting myself up to expect anything.

Tonight, she responded to an email and said she'll call me from the airport, and I sense she may be relieved we're talking again too.

But this was just too much for me.

I must live more for myself now with less expectation of her. She can barely take care of herself.

Thank you all so very very much for the ways you have stepped forward to hear me, hold my hand, and offer me so much heart and so much clear thinking at a time when I just felt heartbroken and afraid.

I hope you, dear VESMBers, know what a REAL force for help and insight you REALLY are in my REAL life!

You have made such a vital difference to me.

with love and gratitude,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2009, 01:50:50 AM »
I have been away for several days.  I feel inadequate to offer anything of value but I want you to know that I feel for you.  I am so glad she called and I do so hope that she finds her way to making her loan whole.  I am with you Hops.

teartracks

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2009, 04:46:26 AM »
Hi Hops,

My daughter's parents (that would be me and her dad, divorced), raised her to be a princess.  Carte blanche emotional welfare served up on a silver platter!   Once while driving back from visiting her, the realization of what we'd done hit me like a ton of bricks!  I spent the balance of the trip back trying to figure out what to do about my abrupt enlightenment.  The thing I knew for sure was that she deserved so much better!  I wanted desperately to make complete restitution for the harm I'd caused.  

I'm not assuming that the situation with your daughter is the same as mine.  I'm just sharing my experience with you with the thought that in principle there may be some similarities.  I don't mean to oversimplify either, but this is what I did.  I made a covenant with myself to stay out of my daughter's business from then on, all of it,  including her finances.   Next I called her and apologized, explaining as best I knew how, why I was apologizing.  We'd never had a hostile relationship, and I didn't fear her withdrawing, but I was, fearful that applying what I'd learned might diminish the closeness we'd always shared.  It didn't!  It made it better!  Relinquishing what I'd wrongly assumed was my right to create a princess,  enabled me to see my beautiful daughter through new eyes.   She's not a princiess.  She's a woman.  My joy is seeing the unending essence of who she is (with no imposed enhancements from me) unfold.   

I hope your 'talk' goes well today.  Think mutuality!

tt



« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 05:35:28 AM by teartracks »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2009, 06:23:08 AM »
Quote
I must live more for myself now with less expectation of her. She can barely take care of herself.


These two statements sum it all up, Hops. For me, too.

But, even though things are difficult for the Ds of the world... they'll be fine, just like we were... even though to me the difficulty provokes that primal urge to run in, provide cookies, gifts & hugs & kisses or feel horrible about the separation that now exists and worry - my D is setting her boundary and saying: look, it's rotten & tough - but I'm fine...   I've had to try to convince myself I need to let her muddle through her way - so that she develops the self-confidence she needs, learns what her own boundaries are with others, and develops the other life skills that'll help her feel good enough about herself to risk growing inwardly. She's way more social than I am, but that's not always a good thing for her.

Facebook is a way we're trying to stay connected in little ways - without trespassing. H even posted something really trashy the other day and said "oops! I forgot my mom reads this..." Problem is, I don't say much about myself there. That's a long story.

I hope you find some peace with this soon, Hops.

(tt! Hi! How are you?)
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Ami

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2009, 07:38:03 AM »
Dear Hops,
 I think you need to be honest about what your own needs FROM your D are, as I  see you struggling with.
 I think that this one factor may be the hardest  for you  to dechipher  in the puzzle of your relationship with her .
 We are so phobic about own own needs that we can't even look at them .
  I noticed that you were upset that you showed "weakness" to her.
 It was not "weakness" but a genuine need.
 As Lise was saying on another thread, it is so hard for us to acknowlege our own needs. We were groomed to be perfect and perfect people don't have needs.                            Ami


 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

lighter

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2009, 09:51:09 AM »
Whew, thank goodness she got in touch, Hops.

It's like a literal weight, lifted from the heart and mind, yes?

Boundaries.

Rising above and gaining emotional distance.

Sitting with difficult feelings.

Letting her know you'll never ever stop loving her no matter what she does.......

but you do have issues with some of her behaviors.

That conversation doesn't have to be loaded with fear and charged with danger.

It can just be a regular conversation with regular emotions attached.

Right?

I'd suggest writing a letter to my d, reading it and re-writing, reading and rewriting till I was clear about my emotions.

Clarity brings the ability to have any discussion, and remain calmly on track, no matter what's said, IMO, (but I always give that advice and you've heard it before: )

Clarity, is a good thing.

((Hops))  Glad you're feeling better.

Mo2



teartracks

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Re: Painful truth.
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2009, 03:12:57 PM »



Hi PR,

Doing pretty good.  Thanks for asking!

tt