Ingredients For Healing

[Ami]

I am healing for the first time .
 I don't think you can do it alone. I think you need s/one to mirror you. That person has to be strong enough not to throw you away when you melt down. That is a critical thing b/c we were thrown away by most of our relationships, starting with our NM's(if we had them)
 That person has to have  enough self awareness and connection to  THEMSELVES that they CAN see you.
 That leaves many people out right there including many therapists, IME.
  I think this explains why we all tried to get help so many times and never could.
  As`I heal, what surprises me is HOW many robotic, non thinking  people there are out there. It seems like it is the majority. The very small minority seem to be thinking , aware people.
 
 
 
 
 

[Ami]

I realize WHY I thought I was "bad". Maybe, other people have the same thing. I could never fix my NM. SHE wanted me to fix her, make her feel good about herself.When *I* could not love her enough, she felt justified in blasting me, decimating me. *I* was supposed to make her feel good. That was my job, to make her look and feel good.
 I had to be on alert so I could scurry around trying to meet her needs. I grew up to repeat the pattern in my adult life . I have been on alert not to make people angry and to make myself small so they won't get jealous. Everything is to please and mollify her but now I am doing it symbolically to the outside world.
     Ami

[Overcomer]

When you stop trying to change the N and start learning how to change the way you react to the N, that is when healing begins.  The problem is we were all brainwashed to think we are this and that.......it takes time.  Years, sometimes.  But it is when you do not buy into the lies and keep reminding yourself that YOU are not the problem and even if everyone thinks you are, you know deep inside that you are making the strides to heal......you ave stepped out of denial land and are on a trek to finding what is right......lots of bumps on the way!!!  But you can do it!

[Gabben]

I am healing for the first time .
 I don't think you can do it alone. I think you need s/one to mirror you. That person has to be strong enough not to throw you away when you melt down. That is a critical thing b/c we were thrown away by most of our relationships, starting with our NM's(if we had them)
 That person has to have  enough self awareness and connection to  THEMSELVES that they CAN see you.
 

wow...what an important insight.

My longest stint in therapy was with a Freudian psychiatrist, the black couch and a ceiling as my mirror aside from what I felt in him which was a firm commitment to me to never "throw me away." Even then, it took a long time before my inner child felt safe enough to reveal her secret pains.

You are correct in that a therapist has to be strong enough as well as emotionally healed themselves to withstand those challenging times when the patient starts projecting. So many people give up therapy too soon, usually right about the time that they are going to have a break through, unconsciously they do not trust the therapist to stay with them through their pains and meltdowns so they leave, throwing themselves away before the real healing starts.

The mirror is important and it can be a very painful mirror to have to face. Accepting myself started by staring into my hatred, contempt, envy fears and desires for revenge; one of the more difficult things, if not the most difficult things to do in life. It took me a long time to realize that most humans have these emotions; the mature accept these parts of themselves as they were mirrored in childhood, accepted in childhood and allowed the freedom as child to work through these emotions so that they do not grow up to be emotionally a child, like the N's.

Recall, Ami, my old recent T the NT was unable to withstand me when my pains came to surface. Even though she was just a spiritual director it should have been her job to direct me to healing and allow me to see that the pain that I was in was in relation to my mom, I actually was the one that was pointing this out to her as I was trying to get her to not leave me so that I could work through the memories that were surfacing - she left me. She did the worst thing that a T could do, she refused to even look at me when I ran into her, answer my calls, or have anything to do with me ( sadly she was also a fellow parishioner and a friend), and she made it seem that it was my request to end the relationship, even though I did try to end my work with her in a moment of confused frustration, however, very quickly  I saw I was just being in my wounded self; I wanted to speak with her about that but it was too late, she was assaulted by my rejection of her, she would not even think about taking me back but could only think about punishing me for not "mirroring" her greatness. The sad thing is that all I wanted was some compassion for the intense pain that I was in.

I had already done so much "intense work" in therapy that I knew exactly what to do when in pain as well as I knew that the wound was the place of healing and that I WAS healing; it was that much awareness within me gifted to me from years of work with a safe, healthy and strong therapist, which I am forever grateful to God for putting him in my life. If it had not been for the healthy therapist in my past I might be dead or lost forever because of the betrayal and dysfunction of the NT.

Lise

[Gabben]

Ami,

This topic really brought up some old mild pains for me around my last two Ts, the NT and then my therapist that had left after the NT went to her to try to get her on her side and try to get her to "throw me away" as unfixable too so that she could validate her position as well as team up in affirming herself.

The sad news is that my new T, the one that replaced the NT, did as well eventually "throw me away."  At first she tried to remain true to her professional ethics and to give me the benefit of the doubt after her conversation with the NT, but she too had N desires as well as she was just not a strong enough person for me. Her heart is a caring heart, but I have grown so much that now I can see that her heart, practice and service is geared more towards her hidden selfish agendas more that it was sincere in helping others get close to God and heal.

Therapists are just people, some very wounded, that get a license to help wounded people. They are human and can make mistakes, that I grant and forgive. For the patient, who is capable of intense self examination and a deep desire to grow in love and understanding of God, it can be hard to find a T that will consistently encourage this, even in our distress times, who will stay strong; they are only human and go through their own life crisis. It is sad though when I found myself making excuses for them, empathizing for them and analyzing them, understanding them better than they understood themselves.

If you grow past your therapist then you need to just move on and get a new one, but that can be hard to do. Today, I just accepted what I did gained from the dysfunctional T's in my life and what help they did offer me, it is there. As well as I stay grateful that was given the gift of insight and strength to withstand being "thrown away by T's" who simply could not face themselves and throwing me away was an easy out for them.

Being such a person of integrity I would normally say well if they are rejecting me then there really must be something about myself that they are mirroring that I need to look at. I would think to myself that God works through people, our mirrors, to help us see and know ourselves. How many times I have done this, painfully faced what was being mirrored, took it in, honestly turned to face me and heal, yucky and humbly, but I just could not stand to not live in truth, even if that truth was a painful truth about myself.

The two T's in my life that threw me away, the NT and the regular T, did hurt and damage, more or less, but the wisdom and experience of unraveling such a mess of what is my stuff and what was their stuff was worth the price of pain, I'll take the wisdom of life trials and pains over comfort and worldly acceptance anyday.

Lise

[Ami]

What a brilliant post, Lise. I have two healthy role models , My Aunt and my guitar teacher, Ray. They accept  their primal feelings  as human.
 For my Aunt, her M mirrored her, as I guess it should be. Then, she COULD accept  herself .
  Whomever one has to mirror them, a therapist or layman, it is a blessing from God,perhaps one of the biggest blessings in life. To me, it is.
                       Ami

[Ami]

Dear Lise
 The crucial factor in s/one who can mirror us is their  emotional strength, humility and wisdom, IME.
 They have to understand their FOO issues enough so you don't play in to THEIR issues b/c then they will throw you under the bus ,fast.
 They have to be emotionally able to  stay grounded and centered in  themselves while we are losing it . They can't go there with us or if they do, they have to be able to extricate themselves WITHOUT blaming us .
 It is very rare to find highly developed human beings who can reach out a hand to a wounded person and lift them up. You have to kiss a lot of frogs in this one.          Ami
 

[Gabben]

"You have to kiss a lot of frogs in this one"

That makes me laugh!! It is so true though.

My most recent spiritual director was the prince! He was solid! There was a time when I was facing a real deep unconscious fear of being killed, childhood stuff, something that I could not face, my new SD was able to withstand my wanting to leave, my attacking him for being wrong in his perception of the situation and the plain contempt I felt towards him for forcing truth on me...the more that he kept at me with his strength and love I finally broke,  I yelled "stop you are killing me!" He then pointed out to me that he was NOT killing me and that that was MY fear. Well, that is the short story.

He was relieved when I could see what we dug up and admit the truth which once seen was like having a wave of sweet fragrance blew through me; it was a real break through, but not easily achieved and I even pointed out to my SD that he was strong. He won my trust that day.

Ami - I hope you stay with this insight awhile, it is a really good insight. You seem to me do be doing so much healing now but I disagree that it is the first time for you, you have already done much healing already, perhaps you are just cycling through a much deeper layer?


"Everything is to please and mollify her but now I am doing it symbolically to the outside world." This is too a good insight.

On another note: I have been struggling with my reaction to the NT, here it is almost two years later and I still have pain, I tell myself that it is just my own neurotic stuff, but it does not feel that way. I think that I am trying to grapple with is guilt, guilt for calling her out, even here on the board although I never have mentioned her name or made public this, at least not intentionally. For two years I kept very silent about her in respect for her and even compassion for her and who she is. But, then, recently, I lost it.

I walk in her shoes all the time in empathy just to be fair and kind because I try to imagine what it would be like if you woke up one day to find out that you are a full blown N when you actually thought that you were an amazing saint and to make it worse the person who you hated is the one that told on you, being the N whistle blower?

Ami- How do handle this? I am wondering if I should write her a letter of amends, admitting that I was critical and hostile towards her and that was wrong of me. I could just leave it at that. My main concern is her and helping her, but are the N's past help, are they past the miracle of truth about themselves? It get so confusing for me because I beat myself in having had so much contempt and anger towards her, so much of it displaced, it was at times really all about my mom - it is that 90% 10% rule.

Today, I forgive her... completely, I would even be friends with her again, if that was ever presented to me by God to do, there is peace in my soul about all that happened, I am just trying to clean up my side of the street so that I can move on and forgive myself.

[Ami]

Dear Lise
   I WILL be treated with respect. If s/one doesn't, I will not let THEM hurt me, again. Forgiveness is an internal state that we should strive for BUT we don't have to be re-injured by a person who has already proven their unworthiness to be in our lives.Last week, I was  strong with a girl who was talking behind my back and then acting like she wanted to be my friend. I let her know that I had no interest in her friendship.
 The few people in our hearts should treat us tenderly.        Ami
     
 
 
 

[Gabben]

Hi Ami,

Your words were helpful. The NT did do a pretty good smear on me for a very long time. Her goal was to have me shunned from any and all attention and to be seen in the eyes of others as defective; she hoped that I would be thrown away by my church and others in our social circle.

To be shunned is a very painful thing, especially when you are innocent. My community and friends that I made in ministry still to this day shun me because of her.

I've been so hard on myself for so much of my life. Protecting my NM when I was not really protected by her and instead she soul murdered me. That might even be a piece of where I am coming from now.
However, I do believe in forgiveness and reconciliation; I will always pray and hope the best for those that hurt me, even if I can never be around them.

I tell you one thing, it feels good to be this far away from the initial pains of it all and to be praying and wishing her well without having to even try so hard but simply because my heart is just to good and caring for others, even my worst enemies. I can honestly say that I have never done anything or said anything about her with pure malice in my heart or with an intention to hurt her, those feeling may have been there but I was always careful not to be acting on them. I think at times I just needed to express my frustration, but you know the Ns, they make you feel guilty for needs, they make you wrong for self-expression, they make you voiceless.

[Ami]

I've been so hard on myself for so much of my life. Protecting my NM when I was not really protected by her and instead she soul murdered me. That might even be a piece of where I am coming from now.



I think that many things are at play for you in your situation with NT. First of all, you want to forgive as Jesus commands. I think forgiveness is an INTERNAL state. I think that we do not  have to have ANYTHING to do with our abusers. Our hearts have to forgive them, but we do not need to let them EVER hurt us again, on this earth.
  Alice Miller talks about the abused person always trying to understand the abuser. I think you are doing this with NT. WHY do you, the abused one, have to give to s/one who abused you so egregiously? To me ,that is your abused part NOT the Bible.
   Ami

[Gabben]

Forgiveness IS an internal state, correct, but I have learned over the years that I have to LIVE what Jesus taught. One thing that He taught was that we are to love others with our whole heart and that we are to LOVE our enemies.

Do you recall how when John Paul II, our past beloved pope, was shot? Well, he actually went into the prison cell of the man that shot him and spent time with him, talking with him, caring for him and SHOWING his forgiveness. John had a purpose in mind that went far beyond just carrying around forgiveness in his heart.  He wanted to do everything that he could do to help save that man's soul, to release him from any bondage of self condemnation, to help set him free, regardless of whether that man, who shot him, had fully repented, or even yet faced himself. John Paul LOVED him.

It was a powerful thing to do, one that showed great mercy and kindness...I even believe that John Paul physically embraced that man.

Ami - I understand where you are coming from and a year ago I would have fully agreed and then left it at that. But I feel yearning in my soul to care for her soul and her happiness, not out of a dysfunctional need but out of my love for God and His love for her.

I'm not trying to be friends with her I'm just willing to SHOW, an action of mercy that would be far reaching, past my own pride and ego and into her soul in hopes that she knows how deep mercy is as well as my forgiveness. I have wronged her in my retaliation for her wrong to me, her wrong to me does not justify any action on my part that is also wrong. It may be like having to take a bit in my teeth and pull myself to do this; in the end I may have a much deeper sense of peace of knowing that I could help release her from any condemnation, if and when she does face herself.

Christ wipes out all sin, so I should also wipe out all sin. I've just planned on acknowledging my part and letting the rest fall into God's hands, it is really God that I am apologizing to anyway; the bible also tells us that whatever we do the the least of our brethren we do to Him.

Hope this makes sense....also, if I am truly humble then I can go anywhere and be around anybody and not be wounded, if I am truly humble. Making an amends to her for my side of the street might be a way for me to experience some of that humility that I need in order to grow towards even a greater humility. Doing the unthinkable can produce amazing results, or miracles.

[Ami]

Dear Lise
  I think your NM messages are making you try to follow the Bible to an unreasonable standard.
 I think you are trying to  give dignity to others BEFORE yourself and it is backwards,in a way. I KNOW the Bible says to put others first but when you are abused you do that TOO much  already .We are really skewed in that direction.We have so much shame and distorted thinking about ourselves that we must heal that before we can be used without it hurting us more. I think you are hurting yourself MORE by your high standards for the NT, for example. I don't think God wants you, right now, to be the vechicle to heal someone who has hurt you SO badly. She injured you horribly.You are the walking wounded from your NM and the NT.
  You DO give love  here and in AA but NOT to your heartless, cold N abusers.If you were ready to do that, it would be peaceful. God shows us the way by peace in our hearts. You had horrible NM damage to get over. That is a fact for us.We are different from people who did not have NM damage. We need whatever time it takes to heal.
 *I* tried to do what you are saying and *I* got worse.
     Ami

 

[Hopalong]

Hi Lise,
I don't know if this is accurate or if it will be helpful, but I was thinking about how hard it has been in my life, relating to Ninjuries, to sort out the injury (real) they had done to me, versus my automatic piling-on of additional, simultaneous self-injury. Which is why the wounds from my encounters with them would be so deep.

I have lately teased out one thing that I filter my thoughts for...what it is, is catching myself every time (well, of course I miss it often--but it's easy to see in others' thinking!) when I ascribe motive or mind-read. IOW, when I state what someone else is thinking or that I am prescient enough to know, quite specifically, what is in their mind or heart. Usually, when I do that, I am self-injuring on top of the real injury the N has done me. I thought of it when I read this:

Her goal was to have me shunned from any and all attention and to be seen in the eyes of others as defective; she hoped that I would be thrown away by my church and others in our social circle.

This is exactly how I gave Ns such great power in my life. When I had self-narratives riddled with assumptions about another's goals or motives, I never said to myself, I don't actually know that. Never took them at face value or set boundaries based on behavior only (which I now think is healthier) -- I always added to my own thinking a fantasy narrative of what they were thinking, what is deep in their hearts, what their "real goal" is. And I've come to believe that I really do not know. I cannot know. It's not even my place to know.

It's just my place to spot any red flags (with Ns, they are always there) and then simply construct, reinforce, or rebuild my boundaries of self-love accordingly.

As to whether you should reach to her with a letter of apology and forgiveness? I would say yes if you could make it no longer than one paragraph and completely release any wish or expectation that it would produce any response whatsoever, or change in behavior, or renewed contact, or friendship, as you mentioned.

I would say No if, deep down, you decide it's coming from a place of obsession.

You will be able to sort that out, I think.

luck,

Hops

[Ami]

[/quote]I have lately teased out one thing that I filter my thoughts for...what it is, is catching myself every time (well, of course I miss it often--but it's easy to see in others' thinking!) when I ascribe motive or mind-read. IOW, when I state what someone else is thinking or that I am prescient enough to know, quite specifically, what is in their mind or heart. Usually, when I do that, I am self-injuring on top of the real injury the N has done me. I thought of it when I read this:

Her goal was to have me shunned from any and all attention and to be seen in the eyes of others as defective; she hoped that I would be thrown away by my church and others in our social circle.

This is exactly how I gave Ns such great power in my life. When I had self-narratives riddled with assumptions about another's goals or motives, I never said to myself, I don't actually know that. Never took them at face value or set boundaries based on behavior only (which I now think is healthier) -- I always added to my own thinking a fantasy narrative of what they were thinking, what is deep in their hearts, what their "real goal" is. And I've come to believe that I really do not know. I cannot know. It's not even my place to know.




Hops,
 I KNOW you don't mean it this way but I have seen you try to sanitize reality so YOU can feel better. It is crazy making to OTHER people . You have done it to me a few times. One was when I realized my M molested me and you asked me if I had  misconstrued it. THAT is a re-injuring.
 I bet you have that dynamic in your real life. When unpleasant things happen, you try to push back the person's reality by trying to make it "prettier"(sanitized). You are doing it for you, not them.
 I think it is unconscious but important for you to consider.      Ami