Author Topic: Downward spiral of hedonism  (Read 2094 times)

polymath

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Downward spiral of hedonism
« on: August 21, 2009, 12:11:35 PM »
Does anyone deal with hedonism and its negative effects? I get so lost in what feels good for me (sex, smokes, food, keeping the windows down when everyone else is freezing). That is the biggest outward manifestation, thinking I won't be around for very long so what the hell. This monster will eat a person I figure.

bearwithme

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Re: Downward spiral of hedonism
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 01:02:57 PM »
I have taken the more reserved road myself.  But I am trying to find myself and in that, I need to learn what is "good" for me and what feels good for me.  I'm so used to doing what feels good for everyone else that I have no idea as to what's in it for me.  That kind of stuff.

My brother took to harsh drugs and heavy alcohol use just trying to "feel good."  It's a slow poison.  He suffered and we suffered from it.  He thought, "hey, life is short, why not feel good for the moment?"  Our Nmother surely didn't make us "feel good" that's for sure and since he was older than me, he got treated the worst.  My Mmom pushed him outside of the house and locked the door, when he was 5 years old, in the pouring freezing rain.  She was mad at him because he wanted to spend the night at our cousin's house and my mom was jealous that he wanted to be with Auntie and cousins, etc.  She kicked him out and yelled at him to "Go. Go and be with the people you love more than me." 

He dealt with the negative effects of having an Nmom and also trying just to feel good on the inside.....good news is that he is okay now, clean & sober for several years and NC for nearly 10 years.

Don't abuse yourself more than your abuser did.

Ami

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Re: Downward spiral of hedonism
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 01:39:12 PM »
Dear RS
 Lately I have  been feeling an "addictive" feeling. I always felt it but now I can examine it. I have  the feeling of wanting "crisis"and excitement.
 One night, it hit me that I wanted to numb pain.
 I have a person I can go to when I feel like the worst person who ever walked on the earth i.e a horrible shame spiral. I can sob with tears of the betrayed child.  I think we need that. That could be called an Enlightened Witness, in Alice Miller's terms.
 When I realized how addictive I felt, I started seeing that an addiction is only temporary AND a jailer. It calls the shots.
 I think the addictions are ways to fill the emptiness and numb the pain and are not really true pleasures but temporary filling of the wounds.I think I can find true happiness when I love myself and then can love others but loving myself has to come first or my love for others will be another addiction.
        Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

polymath

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Re: Downward spiral of hedonism
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 03:19:11 PM »
Bear,

A guy like your brother is someone I would love to talk with.

RS

bearwithme

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Re: Downward spiral of hedonism
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 05:18:48 PM »
He's a great talker and full of advice.  He is my counselor a lot of the times.  He's been there done that, been to hell and back.  Let me know what I can do for you if you really need to talk to him

SilverLining

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Re: Downward spiral of hedonism
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2009, 01:16:20 PM »
Does anyone deal with hedonism and its negative effects?

Hi polymath.  It looks like you are onto a truth about hedonism it took me many years to learn.  It simply doesn't work.  The more a person tries to make life a constant experience of pleasure, the worse things get.  First there are the obvious physical effects.  For instance, smoking, alcohol, and drugs lead to health problems, hang overs, accidents, e.t.c..   But there are also more subtle psychological issues.    There is always a letdown equal to the pleasurable "high" later on down the road.   When the pleasure of any new item or activity wears off, the hedonist is forced to seek something new to get the same effect, and usually in ever greater doses.  When constant pleasure becomes the expected normal frame of mind, simple pleasures quickly become ineffective, and the hedonist must seek out greater thrills.  

A lot of people in this society seem to be caught on a hedonism treadmill.  They are constantly buying new consumer goods, changing relationships, taking drugs of various sorts, anything to keep the pleasure going.  I've been one of them.  By my late 30's, I was constantly indulging in a variety of chemicals and activities trying to overcome my depression.   I phased back and forth from depression to exciting activity.  I thought these activities were a possible cure for the depression, but in more recent years I realized the process itself may be the cause of the depression.  After the high of an exciting vacation trip to somewhere exotic, the routines of daily life started to seem a depressed state when it was really just "normal".    Now I am learning how to be satisfied with the maybe  less exciting, but more dependable and less toxic simple pleasures.  

The hedonism may be a learned response to the N-ish environment growing up.  Since I didn't get much in the way of emotional support  from the FOO, I learned to seek outside substitutes, such as collecting things.  My parents couldn't provide any emotional  validation, but they were usually good for a couple of bucks to buy something.   They still operate this way.  They talk about themselves constantly but buy nice Christmas gifts.  Unfortunately "stuff" doesn't really fill emotional needs.  You can't get enough of what you really didn't need to begin with.   After being around the FOO for awhile, I feel the pull of outside emotional substitutes.  They drove me to drink.. :lol:   
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 01:31:25 PM by SilverLining »

polymath

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Re: Downward spiral of hedonism
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2009, 05:18:41 PM »
Very well put..I'm always, and I mean always chasing that next compliment, affirmation, smile, laugh, cigarette, sex, (used to be beer), etc.

Its almost like getting recognition in a somewhat peaceful normal home flips a switch that makes you OK in the moment, not NEEDING anything, like the keys to the kingdom. The rest of us run around looking for the keys through substances and new relationships until the late 30's when it's time to pay the butcher bill.

Ami

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Re: Downward spiral of hedonism
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2009, 05:31:21 PM »
I don't know if your bringing it up is making me face it, RS, or it is just time but I really am seeing HOW co--dependent I am.I hurt so badly as a kid, as most of us did. My life was harsh with my NM , cold and cruel.
 When I had acceptance  from people, I felt like I had a self, that I was worth s/thing. Without it, I emptied out like a balloon.
 I went up and down, up and down. I don't want to do that anymore.
 I have feelings of sadness when I  see this lack of self.
 It feels scary.
       Ami
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 05:38:22 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Ami

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Re: Downward spiral of hedonism
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2009, 08:13:36 AM »
Does anyone deal with hedonism and its negative effects?

Hi polymath.  It looks like you are onto a truth about hedonism it took me many years to learn.  It simply doesn't work.  The more a person tries to make life a constant experience of pleasure, the worse things get.  First there are the obvious physical effects.  For instance, smoking, alcohol, and drugs lead to health problems, hang overs, accidents, e.t.c..   But there are also more subtle psychological issues.    There is always a letdown equal to the pleasurable "high" later on down the road.   When the pleasure of any new item or activity wears off, the hedonist is forced to seek something new to get the same effect, and usually in ever greater doses.  When constant pleasure becomes the expected normal frame of mind, simple pleasures quickly become ineffective, and the hedonist must seek out greater thrills. 

A lot of people in this society seem to be caught on a hedonism treadmill.  They are constantly buying new consumer goods, changing relationships, taking drugs of various sorts, anything to keep the pleasure going.  I've been one of them.  By my late 30's, I was constantly indulging in a variety of chemicals and activities trying to overcome my depression.   I phased back and forth from depression to exciting activity.  I thought these activities were a possible cure for the depression, but in more recent years I realized the process itself may be the cause of the depression.  After the high of an exciting vacation trip to somewhere exotic, the routines of daily life started to seem a depressed state when it was really just "normal".    Now I am learning how to be satisfied with the maybe  less exciting, but more dependable and less toxic simple pleasures. 

The hedonism may be a learned response to the N-ish environment growing up.  Since I didn't get much in the way of emotional support  from the FOO, I learned to seek outside substitutes, such as collecting things.  My parents couldn't provide any emotional  validation, but they were usually good for a couple of bucks to buy something.   They still operate this way.  They talk about themselves constantly but buy nice Christmas gifts.  Unfortunately "stuff" doesn't really fill emotional needs.  You can't get enough of what you really didn't need to begin with.   After being around the FOO for awhile, I feel the pull of outside emotional substitutes.  They drove me to drink.. :lol:   


This is  brilliant, SL! It says it all.              xxoo   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

SilverLining

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Re: Downward spiral of hedonism
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2009, 01:27:32 PM »
.

Its almost like getting recognition in a somewhat peaceful normal home flips a switch that makes you OK in the moment, not NEEDING anything, like the keys to the kingdom. The rest of us run around looking for the keys through substances and new relationships until the late 30's when it's time to pay the butcher bill.

Yeah the 30's seem to be a critical turning point.  The body and the mind get exhausted from all the stimulation, while the underlying needs never really get fulfilled.  I feel like the last 10 years for me (I'm 48 now) have been a long detox process.  But on the positive side, I'm getting to a place where the old stimulants don't even seem attractive anymore.   I sometimes get a sick feeling in my stomach just thinking about  activities I used to believe were "fun".  

It seems there are two paths.  Some people just give up and go with the addictions until they die.  I know people who are still gambling, drinking, and loading up their lives with consumer crap even in their 70's.  The other path is to detach from this futile process and start working on better ways to live.

And thank you Ami..
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 12:37:14 PM by SilverLining »