Interesting Article on cnn.com

[Lollie]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/18/navarrette.rudeness.narcissism/index.html

[JustKathy]

Really interesting. Thank you for posting that.

[Sealynx]

Thanks for posting that. As a college professor I can tell you that the level of narcissism in today's college student is high and climbing.  Ten years ago students would come to my office BEFORE taking my class and ASK if they should TAKE the course because they needed to be away at National Guard drill for a week and would miss several days of class.

Today students come up to my desk the first day of class and (try to) INFORM me that they will FREQUENTLY miss class for what ever reason. They assume it is MY responsibility to see that they make up all the work they miss (no matter how much). Students used to TAKE NOTES and prepare for tests. Now they DEMAND a study guide that tells them EXACTLY what is on the test and will not read the text or worry about learning information that isn't on the guide.

Just making a "good" grade no longer satisfies them either. They need to be deemed "best" (all those trophies for everyone???). A friend who teaches at the graduate level recently told me that MOST of her formal grade appeals to the dean are from students who want an A+ rather than an A since the school went to a grading system allowing + and - grades (A+, A-, B+, B- etc).

Beware a doctor who claims to have finished at the top of his class....chances are everyone did!
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0324/p09s02-coop.html

[HeartofPilgrimage]

Sealynx,

I have experienced everything you wrote about college students. I have been an adjunct teacher at a couple of different colleges, and those experiences are enough to make me doubt whether I want to teach full-time. It is getting totally ridiculous. And, when you are an ACON, being blindsided by student N can be traumatizing all over again. It made me feel like I was in a war zone.

[Sealynx]

HP,
The combined weight of cost cutting (trying to get rid of teachers with experience and better salaries) and caving in to student demands is creating a society that is quickly losing any hope of competing in the world market. And speaking of market... we need to start teaching grammar school kids how to ask the questions that will separate truth from spin and marketing. One of the most difficult things I have to overcome in my philosophy students is the idea that "truth", does not exist. Marketing constantly twists truth and appeals to the emotions in order to sell things and ideas. It makes believing certain things, fun. Unpleasant truth has no place in their world.

If someone is hurt by them, that person has "issues". If they lie about an instructor and are confronted, they just repeat their request as if it doesn't matter what they are doing to try and win. The last grade appeal I had involved a student who failed to take 3 out 4 tests and was demanding a C in the class!

The above kind of thinking means that it is impossible to confront these kids or question their beliefs. They come to college already "knowing" all they feel they need to know and the world around them is just a playground they are firmly convinced can be pushed and shoved into any shape they require. What makes things worse is that almost any belief you want to hold now has a website to back it up. You end up having to argue why your website is better than their website.

I wonder how some of the these kids pass the board exams to get into medical and other careers. I'm sure when too many fail they will also lower their standards.

[mudpuppy]

One of the most difficult things I have to overcome in my philosophy students is the idea that "truth", does not exist. Marketing constantly twists truth and appeals to the emotions in order to sell things and ideas.

I'm afraid it's far beyond marketing, isn't it?.
There is a whole ocean of thought out there which transcends religion, politics, philosophy and art that teaches either that there is no truth or there are an infinite number of truths, each one just as valid as the next.
Not only is that a recipe for unrestrained feelings of entitlement but it is custom ordered for Ns, since the sea they themselves swim in is one of twisting and distorting the truth so that down becomes up and dark becomes light.
The general devaluation of truth is chum in the water for the N sharks.

mud

[teartracks]

I can see a time when human behavior will be tracked, judged and 'governed' globally according by that day's average human behavior.   By consulting the  latest electronic gadget anyone could get a 'what's the behavior doing today'  update as casually as you get a weather update now.  Then act accordingly.  Talk about keeping up with the Jones!  Sounds crazy doesn't it? 

tt

[Sealynx]

So true!!! We have created an N paradise where right and wrong do not exist until someone finds a way to track the wrong doer and they face prison time....Isn't that what usually stops sociopaths...?

Speaking of technology, the other day I was on a website where an argument was taking place about whether a man who claimed to have Aspergers syndrome and was breaking into US government computer systems should be prosecuted. While some people said asperger folks don't know right from wrong (that is not true as I have taught two and both were quite the opposite), the main argument was that if someone with little knowledge could break into the computer then it should NOT be a crime and his intent was "just" to find out about UFO's and that shouldn't be a crime...so breaking into computer system of a country is not a crime as  long as you have the right intentions!!!

One young man made the analogy of how stealing music by sharing files over the internet was not wrong until they figured out how to stop it and prosecute it because "everyone was doing it". You could make the same analogy about the Banking scandal. Everyone was doing it so they took all they could until the government showed up knowing full well that they had created a mess so big that the only short term solution was to bail them out and let them keep their huge immoral profits!!

Anyone in the US ever ask for a printed copy of your cell phone plan??? They won't give you one. The elderly are regularly fleeced by confusing phone bills and telemarketers....and as long as no one is actively arresting people .... no one stops!!!

Ladies we may be the last MORAL people in the cosmos!!! Because we grew up with such evil it sickens us while the rest of the world is enjoying every minute of entitlement they can get their hands on!!

[HeartofPilgrimage]

The idea that someone with Asperger's by definition doesn't know the difference between right and wrong is crazy. But then, there is a whole lot of craziness out there, isn't there?

I was blindsided by a narcissistic rant in a class I was teaching --- I used to observe student reactions to the lecture, and slow down and if a student looked lost, I would say, "You are looking lost --- would it help if I explained it another way?" I had never had any negative reactions to this tactic --- if the student was just zoning out, they would always just say so. "No, I understand, I was just zoning out." But whoa! When I unknowingly caught a N zoning out! I was attacked viciously. This student called names and overall just talked to me extremely disrespectfully. I don't dissociate but I do numb out and I went into numb=out mode. Then i was extremely angry. And this student then had the nerve to "worry" that I wouldn't be objective in grading her from then on out! Duh! She should have thought about that before giving vent to her narcissistic rage!

Understanding my experience with narcissism in my family has helped me understand my reactions to these incidents. My colleagues have a hard time understanding why I "let" students upset me like that. Why it takes weeks to get over an incident like that. Why it shakes me up. Well, my colleagues most likely aren't ACONs.

I have found that N can be found in the bottom academic levels and at the top. I do not have my PhD (yet --- I will have it within a year or so), and Ns at the college level think that if the teacher doesn't have the PhD, he/she is not qualified to teach them. Gag me. Whatever happened to approaching education with the attitude that everyone has something to teach you? But, with Ns, since appearance is everything, the title and letters behind a teacher's name are everything as well.

[Sealynx]

HP,
In my case, my N mom prepared me to deal with well with verbal abuse. For 20 years I taught inner city kids and many were felons. I had to stay in close contact with campus security and the academic disciplinarian.

I still stay in REGULAR contact with our disciplinarian and was on the judicial committee for several semesters. Students like the one you describe are out of control and need to be removed from the classroom because they are disrupting the learning of their fellow students. Yelling at you is no different from any other disruption that stops the learning process.

I don't know what you guys have but normally what we do is ask for a behavioral contract. After an outburst like that I report the behavior to the disciplinarian and he requests an immediate meeting with the student. If the student doesn't show, he waits at the classroom door next class and informs them that they need to go through him to get back in class. The student is then taken away and read the behavioral code. His behavior is discussed and he is asked to sign a behavioral agreement that states he will face formal procedings if he behaves this way again. Those procedings can result in suspension or even dismissal and become part of his permanent student record. That record is frequently consulted by government agencies should he or she ever seek a job with one. I have never had a student subjected to this say another word!!!

Normally the student judicial code is printed in the catalog. I would at the very least make a copy of it and pass it out. Let them know from the get go that you encourage discusssion but will not tolerate outbursts. With the behavior going on at town hall meetings it is only a matter time before tit appears in the classroom. Ask your dean or a colleague what the disciplinary procedure is at your school and don't be afraid to use it!
We might not have willing learners but we don't need to work in fear.
It is good to remember that N students are creatures of the moment. There is nothing they hate more than having their bad behavior follow them for days weeks or a lifetime.

[mudpuppy]

Ladies we may be the last MORAL people in the cosmos!!!

Eh, I don't resemble that remark. The ladies part, not the moral part.

mud

[BonesMS]

HeartofPilgramage wrote:

"I was blindsided by a narcissistic rant in a class I was teaching --- I used to observe student reactions to the lecture, and slow down and if a student looked lost, I would say, "You are looking lost --- would it help if I explained it another way?" I had never had any negative reactions to this tactic --- if the student was just zoning out, they would always just say so. "No, I understand, I was just zoning out." But whoa! When I unknowingly caught a N zoning out! I was attacked viciously. This student called names and overall just talked to me extremely disrespectfully. I don't dissociate but I do numb out and I went into numb=out mode. Then i was extremely angry. And this student then had the nerve to "worry" that I wouldn't be objective in grading her from then on out! Duh! She should have thought about that before giving vent to her narcissistic rage!"

I witnessed a similar scenario, several years ago, when I was taking a sociology class at a Deaf university.  Finally, the professor told the student that if he continued to disrespect him AND the class, then he needed to leave!  The student challenged him on that!  Security was called and the N was escorted out!!!  He never returned and I was so relieved!!!!!  (This took place after I had a one-on-one talk with the professor, informing him that I was seriously considering dropping out of the class because I was TIRED of having class time wasted watching a continuous clash between him and the Party Animal!  I was working full-time and working my butt off in his course.  He understood that, as a college professor, it was his responsibility to be assertive regarding the Party Animal's obnoxious behaviors.)  I'm just shaking my head at how worse things have become lately.  WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO?!?!?!?

Bones

P.S.

Toward the end of my working career at the Deaf educational institution, the newly-installed dean of the division I was working in ELIMINATED the honors system, (i.e. Gold, Silver, and Bronze medals for educational excellence), because, in her words, "that out-dated system MIGHT hurt someone's feelings!"  (This was on the high school level.  She also eliminated other SUCCESSFUL programs because SHE DIDN'T LIKE THEM!)  Later, when she became the Provost at the university-level division, she started eliminating programs that SHE didn't like there, just as she did at the high school division of the same institution.  When she attempted to become president of that educational institution, that was when @#$! hit the fan!  (You probably saw it on the news with student protests, arrests, etc.)  Eventually, she was ousted but it took until recently for most of her damage to be repaired as the university was in danger of losing its accreditation because of what she did.  Looking back, I realize that she was an N-TO-THE-MAX and that emboldened other N's, at that educational institution, to start abusing subordinates more openly, which led to my decision to take an early retirement and LEAVE!

[Sealynx]

Sorry mud!
 

[Sealynx]

You did the right thing bones. That is exactly why it is important to stop the behavior quickly. The good students begin to dislike you because they aren't getting the education they paid for...and unlike grammar school and high school, that money is often coming right out of their pocket.

[BonesMS]

You did the right thing bones. That is exactly why it is important to stop the behavior quickly. The good students begin to dislike you because they aren't getting the education they paid for...and unlike grammar school and high school, that money is often coming right out of their pocket.

Thanks, Sealynx, and you are SO RIGHT!  I couldn't afford to have my hard-earned money and time wasted dealing with a mess like that!  I've had some well-meaning people ask me why I don't become a teacher.  NOT IN THIS DAY AND AGE AFTER EXPERIENCING WHAT I DID AT THAT DEAF INSTITUTION!  I don't have that kind of patience to tolerate Narcissistic BS!

Bones