Author Topic: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...  (Read 2850 times)

Gabben

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N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« on: October 21, 2009, 07:09:00 AM »
It is about the long cold emotional emptiness generated by the long cold emotional silent hostility of growing up in an N home.

My Roommate is cold, punishing me with the silent treatment... ignoring me as if I do not exist. I can pretty much handle her behavior, having learned through hard lessons that you cannot combat evil with evil or repay hostility with hostility, therefore, I am kind, from my heart kind, patient and tolerant of her. Nevertheless, her silence is dredging up another layer of pain.

Part of the pain is the stored bodily memories of what it was like to conform to meet my mothers needs, in other words, becoming my mom's mom. I feel that I am loosing, painfully, a layer of skin, shedding a conformity defense.

Yesterday, and the last few days, I smoked a whole pack of ciggs. It has been a while since I have done that - at least it seems so because I have been only smoking a few ciggs a day, when I go to a  AA meeting and can bum some. Other than that I have had very little compulsion to smoke, until yesterday or this weekend. It is as if suddenly the covert hostility of my roommate pushed a button that opened the door for more stored memories from childhood to vacate my heart (in painful fashion), namely the memories of emptiness and lack of love and kindness that was perpetual, everyday, year after year.

It recently has been occurring to me, again, that most of my childhood was about survival and not getting my needs met, however, I was patient, out of fear. What motivated me in life was hope, hope that one day I would be free of my mom and then able to move out into the world to find success, through achievement and then hopefully love. What motivated me in life, throughout most of life was not the decency to just love others, God, unselfishly, but rather the idea that one day, in the store room of my heart, I would be able to fill up the empty places that I had so patiently pushed aside in order to survive.

I awoke this morning, 3:00 a.m. on the West Coast, to see, or stare at this pain, a pain that I was avoiding and kicking and screaming against having to face. As I lay there in the silence of my home I finally gave in, remembering the words of Hermann Hesse "to love my suffering." Therefore, I hugged my aching, bleeding and screaming heart, listened and heard my little girls story of emptiness, once again.

In prayer God tells me that my N roommate will just move, eventually. This is good to feel or sense. My kindness to her as well as direct communications is too much for her to handle, it is too much piercing light threatening her ego, she prefers the darkness of her lies, she will create lies to herself in order to win and feel as if she is winning by moving, she will tell herself what an amazing person she is and how twisted I am for not worshiping her...or something like that.

Anyway...back to my pain. I feel that part of self that was and is in need of N-supply, is dying on another level, not a recycle, but just the deep level of core wounding, the ambient abuse of growing up in a hostile environment that embedded into my reality, my psyche, telling the story of the warmth and kindness deprivation that I survived through out my childhood.


As the painful memories vacate my heart so does my love for the comfort zone tolerance of hostility that I still maintain, it is as if now, by letting go, again, I am developing an extremely low tolerance for hostility, deep within, for any ruthless coldness to be in my world or that close to me as to actually live with me - no more! She will eventally move out, as long as I keep love and kindness flowing.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 07:11:21 AM by Gabben »

Ami

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2009, 08:02:14 AM »
(((((Lise))))  Do as you feel God is leading and He will resolve it. Ray lives his life like this and it ia amazing to see how God handles his life.
               xxxooo  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Gabben

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2009, 11:03:07 AM »
Thank you (((Ami)))... :) I feel a bit better today. I appreciate your support.


Ami

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2009, 12:55:51 PM »
You are welcome, Lise. It is really , really hard to work through all this stuff. When I get really low, I think that I found Jesus cuz of all this pain and it really is a small price to pay in light of eternity.    xxxoo  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Gabben

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2009, 01:59:54 PM »
You are welcome, Lise. It is really , really hard to work through all this stuff. When I get really low, I think that I found Jesus cuz of all this pain and it really is a small price to pay in light of eternity.    xxxoo  Ami

WOW...did I need to hear that! I have been feeling so lost this AM, transparent in ways beyond comprehension, a trial that makes me forget about the bigger picture as I feel so transparent in all of my sin and disorder -- ugl y -- and unable to focus on what is really important.

Thank you dear Ami for your inspiring words, this life will be over, one day  :D That is sometimes the only bright spot or hope that can keep my chin up a bit, the idea of eternity, where all my ugliness and the ugliness of this life will be wiped out and forgotten.

Lise

Nonameanymore

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2009, 02:17:35 PM »
Hi Lise,

I have been pondering all day whether I should post as I am a little fired up with what happened with my NM's attack yesterday and didn't want to be harsh, just because I am disappointed. May I - very respectfully - say that we have a saying here in Greece '-God give me and God replies, you do what's necessary and I will give you', meaning that you need to take steps towards changing what's bothering you. You mention that you are in a way killing your roommate with kindness, thinking that it's really worth it, but do you really think that a real N can appreciate real, true and honest kindness?
I went through your last post about her as well and see with sadness that this is something that is triggering old issues in you and makes you feel doubly bad and all the feelings that you mention. Do you really think that going through the suffering is necessary?

I used to believe in a punishing God, because this is what NGM taught me but then again I spoke to a priest and he explained that God is not in suffering (although he may be) but in joy, happiness, those moments that you blissfully sit and feel complete and you don't even know why. He further thought that when one feels guilt, anger, resentment etc, these feelings are devil-made and they don't come from God. I don't mean to offend your faith and apologise if I am doing so unwillingly but I think you deserve a better roommate.

I had to share houses in London and there were good matches and bad matches: but some people do not have the skills to live with other people. Maybe your roommate is one of them.

Have you ever talked to her about what's bothering you?

Why do you subject yourself to reliving your childhood with this person?

P

Gabben

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2009, 02:56:12 PM »
Hi Lise,

I have been pondering all day whether I should post as I am a little fired up with what happened with my NM's attack yesterday and didn't want to be harsh, just because I am disappointed. May I - very respectfully - say that we have a saying here in Greece '-God give me and God replies, you do what's necessary and I will give you', meaning that you need to take steps towards changing what's bothering you. You mention that you are in a way killing your roommate with kindness, thinking that it's really worth it, but do you really think that a real N can appreciate real, true and honest kindness?
I went through your last post about her as well and see with sadness that this is something that is triggering old issues in you and makes you feel doubly bad and all the feelings that you mention. Do you really think that going through the suffering is necessary?

I used to believe in a punishing God, because this is what NGM taught me but then again I spoke to a priest and he explained that God is not in suffering (although he may be) but in joy, happiness, those moments that you blissfully sit and feel complete and you don't even know why. He further thought that when one feels guilt, anger, resentment etc, these feelings are devil-made and they don't come from God. I don't mean to offend your faith and apologise if I am doing so unwillingly but I think you deserve a better roommate.

I had to share houses in London and there were good matches and bad matches: but some people do not have the skills to live with other people. Maybe your roommate is one of them.

Have you ever talked to her about what's bothering you?

Why do you subject yourself to reliving your childhood with this person?

P

Hi Persephone,

Thank you for taking the time to consider my postings, as well as read. Your input here is appreciated. I have read some of your threads, very little to be honest, I am glad for the opportunity to connect.

I'm about to leave for a lunch date and will reflect and respond more, later.

For now, I can say that I appreciate your encouragement to get a new roommate as well as your investigatory questions rather than presumptions.

I'll write more later.

Thanks again,
Lise

Gabben

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2009, 06:39:29 PM »
God give me and God replies, you do what's necessary and I will give you', meaning that you need to take steps towards changing what's bothering you.

This is a motto I have tired to live by but I say it as rather "if I do the footwork, then God can make things happen." In other words, if I am not taking steps, action, to "do something" then God cannot work. Right?

My flat is a 4 bedroom, 3 rooms are rented to subtenants, I am considered the renter of the flat, or master tenant. Subtenants must comply to my rules and my authority, which sounds brutish to even say, I do not lord my authority over them, usually they are free and content as long as we can live by common sense and the ability to be considerate and somewhat caring, nothing else about peoples lifestyles has fazed me much in the past. But this particular roommate resents my authority/responsibility as the flat lease holder. She wants to live as if there is no one else here to share the place with or she wants to live as if her needs are first and everyone else comes second, or not at all. Her resentment reminds me of that saying that "those who cannot love love power."

As with my roommates, I was instructed by my landlord, to never ask my subtenants to move out because here in San Francisco the rent laws are tedious in giving renters, subtenants, plenty of rights to sue me or charge me with harassment for even suggesting they move. It is a precarious situation. A roommate, from the past, who was challenging, got an attorney to send me a threatening letter claiming that I was harassing her and being malicious because I suggested that she move since she was unhappy living with me and claiming that I was abusing her and threatening her life. She was also very N. She refused to move until her lease was up, I left her alone meaning gave her a very wide berth or space. Eventually, 6 months later, when her lease was up, she moved, problem solved.

Normally, I have all renters sign an agreement with a month to month lease or a 6 months, their choice. Most roommate have been easy going, understanding and cordial to live with, most have never resented or been unwilling to sign a lease agreement. But this N roommate refused to sign an agreement, even though she says that she has, I know that she has not and I have not wanted to press the issue with her because she takes all of my authority the wrong way, as my wanting to lord power over her. She cannot see that I am just trying to take responsibility for a living situation and for moving roommates in, without knowing who they really are, in other words she cannot fully empathize with where I am coming from as a master tenant, except to project her unwanted self onto me.


You mention that you are in a way killing your roommate with kindness, thinking that it's really worth it, but do you really think that a real N can appreciate real, true and honest kindness?

No...she, cannot appreciate true kindness; for any N true kindness will be most always taken as an assault, right? It is damned if you do and damned if you don't, right? Once you are on the bad side on and N, they only see winning with you, making you all bad and hurting you in defense in order to protect their image, to keep perpetuating their lies. So NO, my patience, kindness and tolerance of her is not taken by her very well. It is only making her more hostile of me, but it is also giving her very little room to build a case against me, which is exactly what she wants to do in order to try to take away my apartment. I know that if she could she was contact my landlord and complain about me. She, in the past has purposely done little things to try to aggravate me, hoping that I will just get fed up and move out, giving her the lease. My place is really nice for SF, really nice.

I went through your last post about her as well and see with sadness that this is something that is triggering old issues in you and makes you feel doubly bad and all the feelings that you mention. Do you really think that going through the suffering is necessary?

It may seem like I am being a doormat, but I believe that God loves and cares deeply about all people. Even though this roommate needs a good wakeup call, I am trying to be careful, focusing on her good instead of hating her back, I am just praying and offering up whatever little pains she gives me. Lately, she is in school and never really home that much. She got on some level that I was feeling used by her and since then she withdrew from that apartment, not using it much, which is really just her guilt tripping. My feeling is that if she wants to deprive herself to hurt me then that is her choice.

Lately, she refuses to communicate with me, either via email or in anyway. I am taking it at face value, respecting her life in that she is busy and has no time to deal with flat issues, I understand. I have to be very careful to not harass her and communicate with her too much because she will use that against me as well. Once again, we are damned if care and damned if we do not, right?

The bottom line is that she brings a very hostile energy into the house and I am coping, hoping and praying that one day she will just move and that ultimately one day she will confront herself, when and if she does, I do not want her to look back and see how mean and intolerant of her I was. I know how that feels to have others harshly judge you when you are blind and lost, which is just where she is.

Believe it or not....being Christian means to me that everyone is my brother or sister, or my neighbor. How would I have wanted others to treat me when I was lost, blind, hostile, rude and inconsiderate. It was only by others tolerance and prayers did I ever change for the better. Peoples harsh judgement of myself or their intolerance only pushed me further into denial, love pulled me out. Therefore, I am giving that tolerance and love back to someone that hates me, I am living my faith, what the bible says about loving my enemy. In my heart, trying to communicate with her by telling her my unhappiness in living with her and or suggesting she move would only further ignite her already provoked hostility. For me, it is about the practice patience and trusting God with time. Ultimately hoping that she will change, I am a perpetual optimist - giving people chances even when they do not want them.

I used to believe in a punishing God, because this is what NGM taught me but then again I spoke to a priest and he explained that God is not in suffering (although he may be) but in joy, happiness, those moments that you blissfully sit and feel complete and you don't even know why. He further thought that when one feels guilt, anger, resentment etc, these feelings are devil-made and they don't come from God. I don't mean to offend your faith and apologise if I am doing so unwillingly but I think you deserve a better roommate.

In response to your question above her is a radio sermon to listen to, it will be very helpful in understanding where I am coming from. It will address your question:

http://www.wordonfire.org/WOF-Radio/Sermons/2009/Sermon-458-The-Suffering-Servant-29th-Sunday-i.aspx


Have you ever talked to her about what's bothering you?

I have tried several times but her anger, hostility excuses and inability or unwillingness to resolve conflict peacefully and with compromise makes it very hard. At this time she is avoiding me in order to send me a message to never confront her again, her image cannot handle the insult that perhaps she is just human and makes mistakes, like myself, or needs to grow a little.

Why do you subject yourself to reliving your childhood with this person?

She is what God put in my life, I am going to try my best to love her, accept her and do what I feel is best for her. If I really felt that asking her to move was best for her then I would do that, no problem. What I feel is best for her is to just keep being honest, strong and kind. In time, God will do the rest, it is in His hands, as long as I don't hurt back. Trust me, there is nothing more that I would want at this time then to be able to ask her to move, but that would be very selfish on my part. I have learned to put the needs of others ahead of my own needs.

If she was truly a violent person and really a danger to other roommates then I would take steps to have her moved out.

The pain that she gives me is the pain that helps heal and free me. I believe that God puts or allows people in our lives for a reason, a spiritual reason. I do not throw people away...God never threw me away.

Lise
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 06:54:00 PM by Gabben »

Nonameanymore

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2009, 12:34:45 AM »
Hi Lise,

I am off to work so have only skimmed through your post.
Your first paragraph talks about rules and authority: you don't seem the authoritarian type, meaning not that you are a doormat but rather someone who respects others and their rights and can use common sense to apply certain functional rules only that will help all involved to live more comfortably. House sharing is difficult and if there things are not agreed, it can make everyone's life a living hell. Only an N will not conform to an agreed living scenario, just because they resent power, or rather, it takes away their precious need/ability to control. As said, I had the luck to share houses with great people (one of my best friends in London is my first landlord in whose houses I have stayed for the 4 of the 6 years I lived in London) and he is very laid back and relaxed but he does enjoy when a 'head tennant' who has lived in the house more (he has 8 flats/houses) makes sure a household runs better.

Anyway, will reply some later. On a light and funny note, I had a very bad experience with a landlord myself: she had a one bedroom flat and decided to do an MA, so she needed the extra money to go working part time only and had rented me her bedroom. She was really resentful having me over and made sure I was aware of it every moment, and made my life hell. At some point I thought I was being dramatic about how she acted but then I was reading ads for house shares and there were other people who said they'd rather not live with a landlord/lady who thinks of them as an appendage to be able to pay their mortgage! To make this long story short, after your post, I saw this woman in my sleep last night!


I also don't believe in a sadist God who puts million on tis earth only to see them suffer.

Have a lovely day and hopefully will write some later.

P.

Clarity

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2009, 11:22:07 AM »
Hello Lise,

This is Hope. Want to share that I listened to the message at the link you gave here... about "redemptive suffering"... and what I hear as the key point is the teacher's statement that the suffering of Jesus Christ on the cross was effective for one reason alone and that is because Christ is without sin. The power of His endurance lies in that sinlessness.

About Scriptures stating that "redemptive power is unleashed as a result of the patient bearing of unjust, unearned suffering".....    well, I'll have to explore those and give further study. Seems like an area which could be easily misunderstood.
One thing about which I do have confidence is that worry and fretting are never redemptive. Nor is fear. (Yeah, that first example given in the message bugged me.) I mean, believers are commanded to cast all our cares upon the Lord, to take no thought for tomorrow, to fear not. In fact, it is acknowledging those commands when I am in the midst of my own self-imposed suffering (my worry, fretting, and fearing) which helps to snap me out of that pit. If I started thinking along the lines of my suffering as being redemptive toward myself or others, I'm not sure I'd ever get unstuck.

Hope this makes sense. Thinking of how Jesus said He shares His truth so that we could have abundant life...    not so we could suffer more, right? And...
in this world we will have trouble, but take heart! Who has overcome? And just how much has been overcome?  Only some food for thought.

Gabben

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2009, 11:35:18 AM »
"someone who respects others and their rights and can use common sense to apply certain functional rules only that will help all involved to live more comfortably. House sharing is difficult and if there things are not agreed, it can make everyone's life a living hell."

Hi Persephone,

Thanks for your thoughtful insightful post. It was reassuring and validating. No matter how strong I have become, in understanding myself as well as N's, I can still doubt myself, which is always painful.

The line above helped to remind me that I am not being the authoritarian, as my roommate makes me feel. It really is about creating a home that works when you bring 4 women together. Rules work, keep peace and set limits to help eliminate problems, that is all, nothing more or less in terms of wanting to lord power over them. I inherited this lease from another master tenant. When I moved in, 7 years ago, there were plenty of rules as well as cleaning schedules to follow, it was one of the appealing aspects of this house; I respected the order and respect of the women living here to promote discipline and order.

I need the other renters to help make up the difference of the total cost of monthly rent. I'd always prefer to live with renters that I like or feel a certain warmth for, even if we never see each other. I do not resent living with others, I have just felt others resenting my rules and my authority.

It will all work out...I have a new roommate moving in, if only for a couple of months, she is an acquaintance in AA, someone with a sense of common sense, NOT Nish, spiritual and able to face herself. She is warm and interesting. I hope that she will balance out the negative energy some.

Thanks again,
Lise




Gabben

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2009, 11:44:07 AM »
I mean, believers are commanded to cast all our cares upon the Lord, to take no thought for tomorrow, to fear not. In fact, it is acknowledging those commands when I am in the midst of my own self-imposed suffering (my worry, fretting, and fearing) which helps to snap me out of that pit. If I started thinking along the lines of my suffering as being redemptive toward myself or others, I'm not sure I'd ever get unstuck.

Thank you Clarity.

So much of my suffering these days IS my own worry, fretting, and fearing, exactly. Thanks for reminding me that there really is no value here in suffering these emotional states and that they only cause more worry, fear and fret. Faith has been extremely difficult for me, lately, because my trials have been going on for so long, there seems no hope or end in sight. I am having a hard time believing that God will bring me any relief. I tell myself that all will just get worse if I put my life through faith back in God's hands. I tell myself that He will bring me more suffering, more trauma, more pain and more loss. It is hard to want to trust a God that you feel has your worst interest in mind, that punishes me for past sins while he allows good people and mean people to sin and hurt me as well as continues to strip me of all of this world. Having faith is my biggest challenge these days.

As for the losses and pain that I feel in my heart, for some of the unjust suffering that is not my fault, I do, in moments, silently offer it up, asking God to do something with it, knowing that I just have to accept the reality as the reality, or it hurts more.


Clarity

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2009, 12:05:03 PM »
Thank you, Lise. Always feels like genuine communication with you, and that is so rare. I hear you.

When the trials appear to have continued for a lifetime... maybe the whole mess needs to be turned upside down? Or rather, right side up.
I mean, when a person gains the whole world (temporal happiness/success/earthly "love" and appreciation/whatever... and yet loses her/his soul... the end result is no gain at all, right? 
Also, it's easy for me to sit back and count my losses... I mean, that is one choice I could make.
Or I could choose to stand up and count God's promises and watch Him make all the difference in my life.
I am sorry if this comes across as a lame pep talk... it's only the stuff that I tell myself most days, except for the days when I allow myself to slip into a semi-vegetative state  :?
It can seem so very difficult to budge out of the old ruts, I know.
My own ruts sometimes appear to be so much more cozy than the new way on which hope and faith shine the Light.
How about this:
maybe consider what are your expectations? I mean, what would it look like for you to see your faith work and to have visible demonstration of God working out His goodness in your life?  This is where I have to really watch it, because if I expect for people to start behaving better to me, to love me more, I am likely to have some most unpleasant surprises. To some, you're going to be a stench in their nostrils, right? And to others....   well, I think we need to go to places where we're more likely to encounter those others, who'll experience us as a breath of life, all the while being aware that it's not going to ever be an easy road.
I am so sorry you are in such pain. Can't tell whether my sharing might help, but it's all I have to offer. What I'm finding is that when relief is so elusive, it's because what I need is a total cure. A complete turn-around. And even then, I know that if I had too much "free" time on my hands, my thoughts and wanderings could quickly lead me into trouble. Your experiences may be vastly different, but I want you to know that you are not alone in having an ongoing struggle with overcoming. Good thing our times are in His hands.


seasons

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2009, 01:34:31 PM »
Hi Lise,

This is a very powerful thread. It's so hard to see someone you care about suffering, you want to make it all go away.

You are such a faithful child of God. I feel with all my being his love for "YOU". Bursting at the seams with love and compassion for ((YOU.))

As a parent who feels at times helpless with our children, worries because we can't protect them from all hurts and evil out there.

When they are in pain every fiber aches for them. Mommy wants to make it go away. Sometimes I can help and the hardest times are when I cant.

Is that just a glimpse of our Fathers love for us?  I believe it is. Which in turn fills me with such appreciation for all we are going to receive.

 It is a joy to witness your love and devotion. You strengthen my faith and my will to to serve our heavenly Father with all our hearts.

Hope I didn't offend you in anyway. I'm speaking from the heart.    With warmth, seasons

"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

Nonameanymore

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Re: N-Roomie stuff is triggering N-mommy stuff...
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2009, 02:30:37 PM »
You're welcome Lise. It's so refreshing to actually participate in a post where there can be difference of opinion without conflict!

I wasn't able to post more earlier today as I wanted to share a few bad housesharing examples but thought just to tell you that if this scenario doesn't work IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.
I have been a sort of a master tennant before who lived with a couple of pigs who got really nasty and accused me of wanting to live in a house that looks like a museum. I had the above landlady from hell who used me as means to pay her mortgage and wanted only rules and not to grant any rights. But I have also lived in a house where an amazing girl was the rightful master tennant and I had the best time ever. She had this charisma of applying rules without actually having to ask (don't ask me how she did it! don't have a clue) and there were times where in a 4 bedroom house 8 of us harmoniously spent evenings (when boyfriends came over on Saturday evenings etc). After 6 years of housesharing in London that was a first for me, I realised that yes, it's personalities that count but it's also luck. Not sure this paragraph is relevant but I just wanted to stress that maybe your N roommate has something to do with your healing, and maybe it's just something that happened - I believe that things happen for a reason, but I also believe that not everything has a hidden meaning (because I have gone through phases like that and went mental).

Unfortunately the world is full of Ns and the point for me is to see them but not to bother me (that much) anymore, not because they are part of who I am(my conflict with them) but rather a bunch of people that are made/behaving a certain way. I think with us it's a bit like it happens with pregnancy: They say that there is alwasy the same amount of pregnant women but when you get pregnant, you start noticing them and think they are more!

Good luck!!!!

P.