Reactions (or lack thereof) of other family members to Ns

[Ami]

Kathy,
I think that is why it is so hard to talk to anyone who hasn't experienced it. Trying to explain just one thing they do to someone who doesn't "get it" takes more time and energy than its worth.

This is so true. People  on the outside looking in just cannot grasp it. It take the H screwing THEM before they see it
                             Ami

[HeartofPilgrimage]

JustKathy, Have you ever been in a place where you HAVE to talk about something, over and over, until finally one day the emotional wind is gone from the subject and you know that you're over it? Do you think you're at that point with the subject of your mother --- that you no longer have the need to talk about all the excruciating details and you can just accept that your aunt knows enough ... enough to not blame you for whatever went wrong, enough to not defend your mother, enough to empathize with you? If so, I think that's a wonderful thing. If you're not quite there yet, I will bet that as you have more and more contact with your aunt, details of what you went through will come out bit by bit, and that will be OK with both of you. She won't see you as the drama queen.

[JustKathy]

I'm definitely at a place where I don't want to (or need to) share excruciating details with anyone who doesn't "get it." Even if someone wanted to hear it, where would I even begin? We're talking about 40+ years of relentless abuse. My aunt is a very educated and wise woman, and I'm sure that she's seen enough to know that I was harmed. The details don't matter. It's like having a family member who is the victim of physical abuse. Seeing the bruises is enough to tell the story. The graphic details of the beatings aren't necessary. You just know.

Also, my aunt has never truly defended my mother, really just tolerates her. I've never seen her up and take sides. She just goes with the flow. She's a very gentle, passive person - not the type to argue or make waves. She's always remained the neutral party in the room. Based on my cousin's emails, it appears that she's vocal about it when she gets home, but in the presence of M, she tends to play along in the interest of keeping a family get together as peaceful as possible.

One thing that I do plan on doing is writing a memoir. Not for money, but as a way of documenting things. I think it would help me if all of my memories, and all of M's nasty letters, were all together in one place, rather than scattered around in my brain. I could always self-publish for other victims of Ns to read, or just keep it to myself, as a documented account of living with NPD. I had always assumed that M would be unkillable, and live to be 110. But now that she has cancer, I feel that I'm being liberated, and suddenly have this need to start writing about it. I have no idea why that is. Maybe it's because M has ratcheted up the drama, and old wounds (as well as new ones) are being opened. But I feel like the details belong on the printed page, not blabbering out of my mouth.

[teartracks]

Hi Just Kathy,

Anyway, M's sister, the Aunt I referred to above, has a 49-year-old son who went missing about five years ago (he apparently got fed up with the all the family drama and took off). A few weeks ago, that son (my cousin) not only resurfaced, but announced that he's getting married.

Haven't read the entire thread.  I'm guessing that your cousin, starry eyed bride-to-be on his arm, resurfaced hoping, to have the semblance of a traditional wedding.  Doesn't sound promising does it?  You can't help but feel for the predicament they're in.

tt


     

[JustKathy]

Haven't read the entire thread.  I'm guessing that your cousin, starry eyed bride-to-be on his arm, resurfaced hoping, to have the semblance of a traditional wedding.  Doesn't sound promising does it?  You can't help but feel for the predicament they're in.

OMG. I really feel for his fiance, who's about to find out what kind of family she's marrying into. He felt morally obligated to invite everyone in the family to the wedding, but the potential for fireworks is huge. I'm not going to attend, not just because of the travel, but because I feel that it's best to stay away, especially since I've been total NC with my mother for 7 years. My brother (the GC) is coming with his N wife, so it could could turn into the battle of the Ns, trying to take attention away from the bride. You're probably right that he was hoping for a nice traditional wedding, but he really should have eloped. That's what I did when I got married for the second time. I didn't want ANY family within 100 miles of my wedding.

[teartracks]

HI,

Tell them to read Merrel Markoe's book "It's My %##ing Birthday. That book has plenty of examples!

Then tell them, And EVERY DAY may be the date of my death!

Or, btw, I also, just past the anniversary of my death!

tt

[sKePTiKal]

But now that she has cancer, I feel that I'm being liberated, and suddenly have this need to start writing about it. I have no idea why that is.

For me, writing it down made it "official enough"... told in my own words, my own way (with my own emotional evolution to freedom also documented)... for ME. It was finally my side of the story - even with my own faults included - and there wasn't any real need to publish, share it. I even repeated topics, as I'd work through them at another, less emotional (or sometimes more emotional) level. I just packed these up - and there are about 16 separate journals. I found I babbled alot... danced around a fact that made me feel uncomfortable or just whined alot. Then, clarity would hit me over the head and I'd have these realizations...

I considered incinerating them, as a way of "letting it go" ritually... but hubby convinced me not to. He still thinks I need to publish the story to be "done with it", once and for all. I disagree, because all those details, the specifics, of my story are only meaningful to me and only another victim would understand. Publishing while my mother is still alive also adds the risk of re-opening the old struggle (although "fiction" is an option) with her over whose version of that past reality is "correct" - the LAST thing I want, you know?

If you're feeling this need to write it all down, just start it for you, Kathy - write in small bursts at first. Sometimes, I'd only write a single sentence, and other days - lord, I wrote half a day or more! No rules... no grammar-police... or spelling czars... and who cared if my handwriting sucks, or I transposed letters? It was the act of putting pencil (always pencil for me - but seldom erasing) to paper, the physical act of it, that removed the last traces of the "poison arrow" that infected me.

I hope it helps you, too.

[JustKathy]

Publishing while my mother is still alive also adds the risk of re-opening the old struggle

This is why I never wrote a word about my my experiences, EVER. As long as M was alive, I didn't dare document anything, even if it were kept in private. I've ony started writing now because I know that she won't be around much longer.

Publishing is something that I'm on the fence about. As you said, only another N victim would understand. But maybe that's a good enough reason to self publish on one of those POD sites. I know that I've gotten tremendous relief and validation from reading the firsthand accounts of other victims. If our own experiences could help another victim, I think it might be worth doing. Of all the books on Ns that I've read, the words that reach me more than any other are stories from actual survivors. That's the ultimate validation that I'm not alone.

I don't know. For now, I'm writing as a form of self-help or therapy. Where it goes from there remains to be seen. If anything, I may just give the finished piece to my therapist. She has asked if she can keep copies of M's nasty letters, so I think she learns from them. If my experiences can be used in a positive way by anyone, I'd have no problem putting it out there. I doubt my writing will ever get past the sloppy journal form, but I think I think putting pencil to paper is a valuable tool in helping us heal. As you said, seeing it in writing somehow makes it "real."

[HeartofPilgrimage]

What I did that I feel safe about is to password-protect a document in which I can vent.

Also, here's a trick for those of you who (like me) are scared of forgetting said passwords: Open a word-processing document for passwords. For every document or website that you need a password, log it into this document. Then, password protect that document. Voila! You only need to remember ONE password --- the password to that document --- and the rest are written down in a safe place!

[bearwithme]

I don't think my aunt had any idea what was wrong with my mother, clinically speaking. She had told me that M had been a problem child growing up, had "moments," and general things like that, but few people know what NPD is unless they've sought the help of a professional.

My aunt definitely knew that M was mistreating me, especially when I was a teen. She did what she could to help me, but definitely didn't want to rock the boat. For example, my mother held a family boycott of my high school graduation because she was mad at me for some petty thing. My aunt made the drive from San Diego to L.A., met me at work, and brought me a graduation gift. I think you're absolutely right that she didn't know what to do, so she looked out for me in her own way, without making waves.

I never knew what she really thought of M - if she were just a little "off," or had a genuine mental illness. It now looks like she may have suspected something more serious,  but kept it inside. I can't say that I blame her. She only saw bits and pieces of what my mother did to me. Without the full story, there's no way to know, or to even guess at a diagnosis.

Kathy

JK:  I think we lead parallel lives in sort.  In my NM's case, my aunt on my father's side (my father's sister) knew my M was "off."  Since my father and my NM's divorce, I haven't been able to see this aunt as often but suddenly last summer, our relationship rekindled due to some family events and other things (kismet).  My aunt and I had a long conversation about my M and WOW!!  My aunt told me story after story about my M and her crazy behavior towards everyone.  My aunt opened up Pandora's Box.  She told me she witnessed my M's abuse to me and my brother and it broke her heart to see her niece and nephew in such pain.  My aunt went on to tell me that my grandmother (my aunt's and my father's mother) was so distressed whenever she was at family events that she sometimes avoided them--grandma couldn't stand the way my M treated us or my father.  Light bulb moment: I always thought my grandma didn't like us because she acted funny around us and acted differently around my other cousins.  My grandmas was AFRAID OF MY M!!  She had to walk on eggshells and me as a young child, I noticed this but did not understand it until my aunt told me. I was devastated but I had some answers to this nightmare of what I call my childhood.

My aunt told me she didn't want to rock the boat either.  She confessed that she couldn't do a damn thing about it but just ignore my M and not get involved.  What could she do?  Now that it's 20 years later and I'm now in my 40's, my aunt felt good about telling me and I believe she wanted to get it off her chest, that she knew and felt for us but couldn't say anything at the time...I'm sure this weight on her conscience.

I am grateful for my aunt.  I am grateful for her putting up with my NM and helping me with my childhood because she often stepped in and talked with me when I was a child but I never knew why she liked to talk to me so much.  She used to take me places with her daughter, my cousin, and I always had a good time.

Now I know why she did what she did.

Bear

[JustKathy]

Thank you SO much for sharing that, Bear. I was tearing up while reading it. Your situation is almost identical to mine. It must have been a HUGE moment when your aunt finally opened up to you. I really hope that I get to have such a moment.

The things you wrote about your grandmother also hit home. I know that my grandmother knew more than she ever let on. She, too, seemed to be walking on eggshells. As she got older, she finally started to let things slip out. She lived in Canada, so I didn't get to see her in person very often, but I wrote to her constantly. She NEVER said anything bad about my family in her letters, but near the end, her tone began to change. She stopped referring to my brother (the GC) by name, and began referring to him as "the spoiled brat." Instead of referring to my mother as "Mum," she became "your mother." Very subtle changes, but I think as she came to the end of her life, she stopped caring about being politically correct, and quit worrying about the wrath of M.

My grandmother also knew, somehow, that M had been refusing to congratulate me on getting my college degree. Two days before she died, a cousin who had been caring for GM at her death bed, emailed me and said that Grandma wanted me to know how proud she was that I had worked my way through college, and that SOMEONE needed to tell me. I think that if I had flown to Canada to see her when she was dying, that she might have opened up about it. But she found other ways to get the message through. She definitely knew, and I think that like your grandmother, she was probably also afraid of what M would do to her if she didn't keep quiet.

[bearwithme]

JK: That's astounding.  I'm in tears.  I truly believe your grandmother came to terms with the reality and couldn't die without letting you know that "she knew."  And in doing so, she gently said what she needed to convey, albeit, through someone else.  The message was clear and you knew she was proud of you...as am I!!

I hope you and your aunt get to talk someday and you can feel free to ask questions.  As for me, I let it rip and didn't stop with the questions and my aunt obliged.  She could have stopped me at any point but she didn't and for that, I am grateful.

She stopped referring to my brother (the GC) by name, and began referring to him as "the spoiled brat." Instead of referring to my mother as "Mum," she became "your mother." Very subtle changes, but I think as she came to the end of her life, she stopped caring about being politically correct, and quit worrying about the wrath of M.

This is very poignant.

((((((((((((((JK))))))))))))))))))))

Bear

[swimmer]

JK-  I'm randomly reading through threads and came across your last post.... That message your Grandmother sent you is just an uplifting, nice thing to hear:)). Good for you!!  Validation is sooo healing.  What a story of hope, thank you for sharing.

Swimmer