Parent Alienation Syndrome

[Solace]

I second this motion. I am a registered member and you could pm your complaints directly to me, if you like, rather than disrupt this board further. Although, I'd much rather if you have something kind and helpful to offer and I'll do my best to treat you with the same, and with respect, if you do pm me.

I do not feel shame for offering a kind word to a person who's children are being poisoned against her, especially since I know that feeling quite well. I do not feel shame for thanking CG, in the "Ramble Cafe" thread, since she has offered kindness to me, more than once, and I do not feel shame for posting this:

"Post subject: How to be abusive 101
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How to be abusive, a step by step recipe:

1.If you need to feel better, find someone and demean them. This works great with those closest to you, since they have already been conditioned. It is equally effective if you are able to use a degrading situation against them, if the situation is such that you can lord it over that person. You may also be dismissive or insulting at will. If you can put them down while being clever and subtle, it is even better. It keeps them off balance. Push their buttons, you know exactly where they all are. You may even want to "act nice" while you do this. This is particularly effective if completely unprovoked and "out of nowhere." Remember, it's all about You getting what you need!

2. Deny that you did it. You may want to act self-righteous, act as if it is their fault. Tell them that they are too sensitive, or that that is just like them to feel that way. Be outraged that they would accuse you of such a thing after all that you have done for them. Tell them that there is no need for them to ruin your life. Point out how they lack credibility regularly. Puff up and try to make them feel bad for even questioning you. Pull rank. Play games. Whatever you need to do to keep control of the situation.

3. If this fails, use their own guilt against them. Fog the issue with their own fear of you that you instilled since the beginning. Make them question thier own judgement, (this will be easy because of all your prior work). Use their sense of obligation or family loyalty. Never, never underestimate the power of Guilt! You will find this to be very useful. You can make an adult question their own thoughts despite a lifetime of evidence to the contrary! It's unbelievable, really, but it works. Most of them have been so brainwashed they can't believe you would do this to them and thus they will allow you to keep doing it. How great is that?!

4. This is the most important step of all - Make them think that they are responsible for your actions! Take no responsibility whatsover. This is the key that makes the whole thing work! (Warning - If they really get this, and begin to believe in themselves, you are sunk)

5. Repeat at will - It will always make you feel better and give you what you need! Happy Abusing, and remember - It's all about YOU!!!

PS - The above will not work if they have figured out that you are in fact responsible for your own behaviors. If they begin to understand that you are deliberately using their own sense of fear, guilt, and obligation, they will begin to see the Truth and the above will not work any longer! Be Forewarned!! " because it speaks directly to this and other threads.


 
So Meadow, I'm sorry that your request for assistance has been pre-empted.  The real villan is the abuse we have all suffered and it's effects.

Let's all get back to offering Meadow support, and understanding, so she will have something to help her get through this difficult situation she is dealing with, eh?  I'm rallying for supporting eachother, and for offering positive and useful, not negative, shame inducing feedback.

S

[laststraw]

I can only add to this conversation by saying that I too had an ex husband that thought he could turn a child against me.  He offered money, large sums in fact, to not see his mother.  My son was in junior high when it started, and continued until he was well into his 20s before my son could see through the fog.  His father told him I was evil, used his child support money, which amounted to a the cost of a super sized meal at McDonalds,  for my own use. He told his son he didn't need school, that he could live with him and drive a new car, work for him in his business, and would never have to see me again.  My son wanted to live with his dad, or so he would say, but I fought against that. When he finally grew up he saw him for what he was. My advise?!! well, don't speak ill of his father, don't engage in a verbal battle through your children about their father. tell them daily that you love them, you support them and that you are there for them.  where they live will  have little consequence because once they become adults they will only have memories of your positive and consistent behavior.  They will have memories of a father that is spiteful, and hateful and has nothing but evil to speak about.  
It will take time, you will spend many hours doubting and crying, but ultimately your children will grow and become adults. they will have to take responsibility for their thoughts and actions.
Eventually my son began thinking for himself and expressing his own opinions. unfortunately, his father could not accept that, and began to turn on him....
t

[Anonymous]

Hi Laststraw,

Eventually my son began thinking for himself and expressing his own opinions. unfortunately, his father could not accept that

Well, we've all discussed it many ways, many times, but when you wrote this line it just summed up my entire childhood.     Opinions = Power

I'm glad your son finally saw the truth.  Many don't.  

Seeker.

[meadow]

That is what my worst fear is that when my children grow up they won't see the Truth or even worse they will repeat the cycle.  My father in law was an abusive alcoholic and my former husband took on his behaviours even though he did not pick up a bottle.

For those that contribute here at the message board who grew up with a Narcissitic parent what would have helped you as a kid concerning the other parent who was not the Narcisstic?  When you look back at your childhood what did you appreciate about the parent who wasn't the  N.  And on the other side of coin what did you wish they would have done?

[findingme]

For those that contribute here at the message board who grew up with a Narcissitic parent what would have helped you as a kid concerning the other parent who was not the Narcisstic?  When you look back at your childhood what did you appreciate about the parent who wasn't the  N.  And on the other side of coin what did you wish they would have done?

Good question - both for you & for me!  I can't tell you what I appreciated about the nonN parent, as I was not allowed to know him (literally).  I was always told not to interact with him, & he was told the same thing by Nmom.  So you're already ahead of the game there.  

I needed my nonN parent to take up for me, but he never did.  Since Ns are very good at "splitting," he always just stayed out of the way (to keep the peace).  What do I wish he would have done?

(1) validatation of my feelings
(2) willingness to apologize & admit error (huge)
(3) physical affection (hugging)
(4) just adding more POSITIVE vibes to the household

Just a note: if my nonN dad would have "bashed" my Nmom, I would not have believed him, & would have thought he was the bad guy (b/c she had me brainwashed).  So I would be careful on that...  

Just my two cents.  Hope it helps some.  Good luck!   fm

[bunny]

That is what my worst fear is that when my children grow up they won't see the Truth or even worse they will repeat the cycle.  My father in law was an abusive alcoholic and my former husband took on his behaviours even though he did not pick up a bottle.

A child will repeat the cycle if both parents are dysfunctional and they have no adult role model and no safe parent. I suspect your ex-husband grew up in that situation.

If you are a "good enough" mother your children will see the truth. They've been exposed to enough empathy and caring that they aren't completely brainwashable.

One famous example was Ingrid Bergman's daughter, Pia Lindstrom. Pia's parents divorced and her father had custody of her. He prevented her from having any communication with her mother (Ingrid Bergman) during her entire childhood, destroying letters her mother sent. He told her that her mother didn't care about her. As soon as she turned legal age, she simply went to Europe and visited her mother and started a fond relationship with her. The father didn't succeed in destroying the early attachment.
 

bunny

[meadow]

Thank you.....your reply really helped.  If I could just verbalize/write about the daily activities as I walk thru this Hell I know that I will hear the answer that my kids need.  I find it so difficult living in the poison.  My reality or the children's reality is constantly being dictated by my former Husband.  It almost feels like we are living within a pool of brainwashing.
Does anyone know how to counter-act that?

If you think of anything else....please post or drop me a line.

wornhikingboots@msn.com

Meadow

[bunny]

I find it so difficult living in the poison.  My reality or the children's reality is constantly being dictated by my former Husband.  It almost feels like we are living within a pool of brainwashing.
Does anyone know how to counter-act that?.

Stay grounded and don't let your ex dictate your reality. You can't control your children's minds - your ex is trying to do that and it's evil. You can only control your own mind. So don't let him suck you in.

bunny

[meadow]

I hope it is appropriate to write about my feelings as I walk through this new arrangement or stage in my life.  Tonight it is Halloween.  It is my youngest's turn to be with me this weekend.  She and my eldest live with me and my middle child lives with his dad.  Not by my choice or input.  Even though we have had two counselors involved to help draft up a parenting plan by our two lawyers most of their suggestions are not followed by my N.  My middle child is to alternate a week at a time between our two homes and this has not happened at all.  In fact in the last 6 months he has only slept here 2 nights.  His father tells everyone my middle child does not want to see me because I broke up the family.  When I ask my son indirectly he simple says that it is boring at my house because I do not have satellite t.v. or video games.  

Tonight my youngest said that her dad had phoned her and promised her a huge chocolate bar and other treats if she came to his house to trick-or-treat.  I took her to her dad's house mid-evening.  He happened to not be there but my middle son and his friends were there.  It was the first time that I had seen my N's new house.  Jealousy is not an emotion that I normally struggle with and even now I must say that if that is what my former husband wants that is his choice and he should be able to do that.
I think what really hit me was the realization of what I was living in the last few years.  The family home that we resided in was not taken care of by my ex.  Especially in the last 2-3 years.  Many projects were started and not finished.  I presently live in the family home until it is sold.  I work part time and presently have full time work for a temporary period of time so I can not afford to finish the projects and I have tried my best to clean up the mess.  Boxes of stuff were left outside, half empty paint cans and misc. garbage are on the side of the house and many home repairs are incomplete.  Broken blinds, closet doors etc. are what my eyes see on a regular basis.  Seeing my ex's new house, new furnishings, and freshly painted walls and decor put a sadness in my heart.  It showed me visibly that he is capable of taking care of things and keeping things in order.  It was always a struggle in our home.  He always made me feel that I was wierd to want that or even work towards that.  Many weekends and evenings I was left alone with housework or trying to fix or mend things.  Just to keep up with laundry and meals I missed many soccer games and events with the kids. When I asked for help it was met with antagonism and contempt.  

When my brother came to visit this Spring and we had to find something in the shed in the back yard he looked around at the mess and tears started to fill his eyes.  He simply said,  "Why were so many things neglected?"  He was over to help me replace a broken sink in the bathroom.  We both looked at one another and I realized that not only was the house and yard neglected....so was my marriage.  My home reflected that only one person was trying and the other was sabotoging.  What does that say about me?  What does that say about how the other person thought of me.  When we lived together he purposefully didn't finish projects or help as a team with things.  I physically could only do so much.  Now he has a new place.....that is actually very beautiful and is keeping it look nice and inviting.  No wonder my middle child who is 13 wants to live there.  New electronics, clean well kept house and yard.  Even my eyes want to gravitate to something like that.  This summer I spent hours pulling weeds, planting flowers and sorting through old unsorted garbage piles.  It did help me keep my mind sane in terms of keeping the focus on me but it only made a dent.  I am not sure what my Higher Power wants me to do.  I don't earn the kind of income that my ex does and he has been causing chaos with the child support in terms of the legal stuff concerning this separation/divorce.  So tonight I just feel sad, neglected and even rejected to a degree.  Things couldn't be taken care of or be "nice" for me.  An environment of chaos and sabatoging is what I lived in and was given.  What does that say about me?  What does that say about how the other person thought of me?  It was very sad and lonely being on a one man team.  It seemed like I was the only one who had the vision..."Family" on my windshield.  
Thank you everyone...for Listening.  In order to heal from this and to sort out things I find that writing helps.  What do other people do to heal who have discovered that their former spouse is a N?
Meadow

[bunny]

Now he has a new place.....that is actually very beautiful and is keeping it look nice and inviting.  No wonder my middle child who is 13 wants to live there.

And that is the whole point. He is doing this to entice and seduce his kids away from their "messy" mother. He even created the mess and made it so that you couldn't clean it up.

This is mainly about his internal world. A small part of his psyche is clean, neat, expensive, and well-ordered. This is used to entice innocent victims into his lair. The much bigger part of his internal world is chaotic, poor, messy, neglected, rejected, abandoned. He doesn't want to face this in himself so instead he sets it up so that you express this side of him. This has to stop.

My view of the solution:

(1) Get pragmatic. You seem to have a loser attorney who is doing zero for you. Get on the Sparc website and start getting concrete support and help. Empower yourself. http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/index.htm

(2) Stop comparing yourself to your ex. That is a black hole, all it will do is depress you and your kids will want to be with the "happy" parent, not the depressed parent. Do whatever you can to remain happy. This will entail working on (1) above.

my opinions, take what you need and leave the rest.

bunny

[meadow]

Dear Bunny,
Thank you for your response..........very helpful.  My priority right now needs to be me getting into recovery and focusing on that.
Also, you have a lot of incite into this stuff.  Thank you for taking the time to respond.  For some reason it really helps sort and sift this stuff for me and see things more clearly.  Believe it or not it gives me strength and hope.  Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meadow