reminder you don't matter

[seasons]

James called to see about getting together tomorrow at Bert's at 5:30 to celebrate ma's birthday. I called Theresa but she can't go.[/b]

Hi everyone it's been awhile.

 I received this email from my sister at 8:30 the night before our mothers birthday, (she has passed away).

This triggered me, old tapes running through my head, also voicelessness. Brought back memories of her treating me anyway she wanted and smirked that she can get away with it. Of course this is not a biggie for what she has done just a reminder that she is evil, almost like a little email wink.

We are not in a fight, she doesn't not know she is a Narc. we haven't had contact since early fall.

If I were to email her with the same information, respectfully I would of addressed her, sorry for last minute notice, hope you can make it, signed my name hoping all is well............. something basic but human.

How can they get away with being so rude yet the outside world thinks they are the most selfless, giving, adored people on earth?

I don't know why this is bothing me, so predictable.  seasons

[Sealynx]

Hi Seasons,
Here is my take....
As much as we would like to believe that good, honest, caring, and giving people are what the world and other people want...that isn't true. They want to hang with someone who in their mind makes them look good.

What far too many people want is to reinforce their own self affirmation. N's extreme form of self-validation makes them appear to be valuable alliances. Just look at all the N politicians, actors and actresses that people fall all over themselves to get so much as a nod from. When people "don't see through" the N's cold exterior, it is usually because they aren't looking at it. They don't want to do a psychological evaluation of the person. They want the person to remain perfect in their eyes so that they imagine the same "elevated" status. Taking them apart would ruin the illusion.

[Gabben]

How can they get away with being so rude yet the outside world thinks they are the most selfless, giving, adored people on earth?

I don't know why this is bothing me, so predictable.  seasons

Hi Seasons,

I know exactly how you feel. Frustration. I have tried to work through my frustration from every angle and every way, except by attacking back or trying to play at the game.

At times I have often found comfort in knowing that those that deceive are just losing out on truth. I have found comfort in knowing that the truth always reveals itself and for me to be and remain as truthful to myself as possible.

(((seasons)))

[Ami]

Hello dear ((((Seasons)))
I am so sorry you have to endure this. You are a sweet flower in the midst of all of them! x o x Ami

[JustKathy]

How can they get away with being so rude yet the outside world thinks they are the most selfless, giving, adored people on earth?

They are absolutely the world's best actors. I have to go to see my dentist next month, which I'm dreading, not because he's a dentist, but because he has been the family dentist since I was a little girl, and believes that my parents are the most wonderful people on earth. Every time I see him, the first thing he asks is how they are doing (they've since moved out of the area and no longer see him). I am NC with both of them now, so just lie, and say they're doing fine, which is always followed by him saying something like, "Well, they're just the two best people, and so well suited for each other. Just a perfect couple."

Well, he's sure right about THAT part. Perfectly suited for each other. I'd love to tell him the truth, but he wouldn't believe a word out of my mouth. They are SO incredibly convincing. An N mother and her enabling husband, who abused and emotionally destroyed their child, and people see them as the perfect couple - people who should be admired. It's the worst frustration I've ever known.

[getnbtr]

They are absolutely the world's best actors. I have to go to see my dentist next month, which I'm dreading, not because he's a dentist, but because he has been the family dentist since I was a little girl, and believes that my parents are the most wonderful people on earth. Every time I see him, the first thing he asks is how they are doing (they've since moved out of the area and no longer see him). I am NC with both of them now, so just lie, and say they're doing fine, which is always followed by him saying something like, "Well, they're just the two best people, and so well suited for each other. Just a perfect couple."

Well, he's sure right about THAT part. Perfectly suited for each other. I'd love to tell him the truth, but he wouldn't believe a word out of my mouth. They are SO incredibly convincing. An N mother and her enabling husband, who abused and emotionally destroyed their child, and people see them as the perfect couple - people who should be admired. It's the worst frustration I've ever known.
[/quote]

I feel like this is something that I had written Kathy. I tell people the truth now though. No details, just that my mother is mentally ill and was like the devil behind the closed doors of our house and dad is weak and lets her get away with it because he is afraid of her. That's enough to say that your dentist won't continue to say what he says.

I went to an old neighbors funeral a few months ago. He was in his 80's, his wife committed suicide by hanging herself in their basement about 50 years ago. He had two sons,the youngest he sent to live with an Uncle when he was a baby right after it happened. He did stay with his dad on the weekend when he was older. All of this time our whole neighborhood felt so bad for this poor man raising a son and having to put one baby out.

I was saying really nice things about him at the funeral when his youngest son took me aside and told me that I wasn't right about his dad. Said that his dad beat them terribly and thinks that he drove his mom to kill himself. I then told him about my mom...then we just stared at each other and started to cry...we lived right next door and didn't know about what each other was going through!
So, you might find that you are not alone. I think that there are many people sitting in our boat. It's a sobering reality.

[ann3]

Yes, Ns are GREAT actors, they make sure they look good to the outside world, but at home, we know what they're really like.  When others (who only know the N as 'actor') tell us how wonderful the N is, we feel betrayed, gaslighted, a gagged hostage of the N's false image.  It can make us feel crazy, but we are not crazy.  We know the truth.

[Hopalong]

I was saying really nice things about him at the funeral when his youngest son took me aside and told me that I wasn't right about his dad. Said that his dad beat them terribly and thinks that he drove his mom to kill himself. I then told him about my mom...then we just stared at each other and started to cry...we lived right next door and didn't know about what each other was going through!

Getnbtr,

This is a very powerful scene to me.

It is amazing how empowering it is to speak the truth. I actually think most people are glad when someone tells them the truth. It's an invitation to know someone, or just to acknowledge something, on a deeper level than one normally does with social chit-chat. Even briefly, it is a gift of authenticity. People have a hunger for that, and meeting it even casually is a good thing.

I've only done it in very modified ways, with people who knew my mother. Those who knew her socially and superficially, but who approach me with "gush" about her, I reply gently:

"You know, it's often very different inside a family than it is from the outside. I loved my mother, but the truth is, great age does not confer sainthood." Just with a wry but serious look, and it's been surprising how many of them would stop the "gush" and say, empathically, I know that's true (or something to that effect). They might walk away looking bemused, but I didn't feel guilty. Every time I would say that (I only did it with some folks)...I felt stronger in dignity.

I think the only thing that enables people to adjust their views of a narcissist, should the adult child feel the urge to make a comment that all was not what it appeared to be...is when the child can make their remark without hysteria or bitterness. Only when I could say it gently, did it feel like a successful interaction.

Otherwise, most of the time I let it go, or respond with something that's also true (but without setting them straight): "My mother was a really remarkable woman. She had an amazing life force, didn't she? And lived such a long time."

She was remarkable. She lived through the depression, educated herself through sheer grit, cared about education, etc. There was a lot to admire. Just...as her daughter, I have the psychological toothmarks on my skull.

Yet, again, I was lucky, as there was no overt abuse from my Nmom. I have had it a lot easier than so many here.

Thanks, Getnbtr, for sharing the true, honest, empowering, soul-refreshing moment you shared with your neighbor's child.

Hugs
Hops

[Logy]

Such an incredible string of comments.  All of you touched me with your own experiences.  The dentist who thinks they are wonderful.  The neighbor who suffered along with you yet nobody knew of the children's pain.  "those that deceive are just losing out on the truth".  LOVE this comment.  After I discovered narcissism and found my own truth, what a freeing moment in my life.  I no longer had to live the lie.  I learned it was okay to tell the truth.

getnbtr, I have 2 wonderful friends who I have known since 9th grade.  We consider ourselves best friends.  But it wasn't until I started talking to them about what I had learned about narcissism that I learned the truth about their lives.  Emotional abuse they had endured but kept quiet about.  Not just as teenagers but through our twenties, thirties, and into our late forties.  And I could finally talk about my life.  Maybe it was the subconscious that drew us together but that we could not put into words.

"The truth shall set you free."

[getnbtr]

Yes Hopalong, you do get a much better reaction from people when you can say it calmly. I know because I used to be angry and ramble. The reaction from others was not in my favor. The hate seems to have gone now and the dignity I feel for myself when I just state enough is freeing! I have stopped explaining myself and just live my life now. I know that there is nothing I can do to remedy the situation, so why bother. Having this board has brought great change to my life. The validation is what I needed more than anything. Still I am working on it, but like you, I had it easier than some others on here. My heart goes out to all of us. I used to attract N's like a magnet, now I can see them coming a mile away. It's too bad that they can't feel. They have no idea what they put us through...especially for a child.
Do you know what is so weird Logy. This same neighbor and I used to stare at each other from our front yards. Never said a word, just looked at each other. Even at school we would say hi and just look at each other. Then at his dads funeral it was the same even after we shared our stories. You know what. I wonder if we all ready knew that each other was going through the same thing back then. Maybe we did and just had to bury it to survive. I know what you are saying about it going into adulthood. We are in our 50's and coming to terms with this. Now I think that I know why his older brother had a huge breakdown a few years back. His wife only told me it was because of his past. I figured that it was because he lost his mother at a young age. I never knew about the beatings.

[Twoapenny]

It's really interesting reading about other people's experiences of the way that 'outsiders' perceive their parents.  I've been really amazed at the differing responses I've got from people.  A lot have admitted they never liked my mum and always found her very false and difficult to be around.  Others think the sun shines out of her **** and won't hear a word said against her.  There's a definite split between those she's been able to work over and those that have seen through her.  Any thoughts on why some people are easier to fool than others?

[JustKathy]

The only thing I can think of, is that possibly the people who see through Ns have experienced this personality type before. Perhaps they have an N in their family, or have worked with one, so are just sensing from experience that something isn't right with the person in question. Those who fall for it may never have been duped by someone with a personality disorder before, so are easy targets.

Also, it doesn't help when you have an enabling father defending the N's behavior. One of the reasons my dentist always speaks of my parents being a perfect couple, is because my father always dismissed NM's bad behavior as "just being her way," and so on. If the spouse is perfectly accepting of the bad behavior, even joking about it (as my father would often do), then there's no reason to believe that the N has a real problem.

[Ami]

(((((Seasons)))) x o x Ami

[HeartofPilgrimage]

Also I think another reason why people are "split" regarding the N is that the N "splits" people. THere are the ones that they treat as "all bad" and therefore like dirt. Then there are the ones they treat as "all good" and never show their bad side to. Kind of like the split between the scapegoat and the golden child. They only see people in terms of perfectly good or perfectly bad.

[Lucky]

It could also be that they divide people in useful people and useless people or people that they want something from in the future and therefore have to placate for now.