LC vs NC

[swimmer]

I can barely believe the similarities I see here as I read these posts!  It's almost been confusing to read.... I read a post and think it's mine for a a moment or two, then read the author name and realize it's not MY post!  

I find myself thinking the last day, am I really entitled to a normal mother?  It would have been much better, but that's not real.  I've forgiven her a million times..... but she just throws it in the trash and starts all over again.  It may have to do with my temperament... I just have no respect or patience for parasitic behavior (repeated over and over and over).  Everyone deserves a chance to learn from mistakes, & she's had that chance (I have to remind myself).

Twoapenny... I can't even believe the similarities in our response to having a child.  On the inside I know what is best...NC.  It's great to know there is someone else who believes the responsibility does not lie on one person to hold everyone together.  People have their own journey in life to live, however they want.  Anyways, I had a way of dealing with my MM that her siblings marveled.... how to get her off the phone fast etc....  But when I got married the tricks started behind my back, then she tried to pull me into family drama, then I became a mother.  That was a flame on the dynamite!!  Everyday now since I became a mother, forgotten childhood memories resurface.  I can't even articulate some of the connections, they just pass, but I think I find some resolution as I feel a little better  than last year this time.

Swimmer
  
        

[swimmer]

Yes.... A vamp to children.  I watched my nm do this with my GC brother, and it was painful to watch.....

Swimmer

[Ami]

(((((Broken Hearted Daughters of NM's))))              x o x o Ami

[river]

Hi River-

"Nobody to work with" basically means a one sided relationship.  The person doesn't hear, or won't hear anything said..... and won't make any effort when called on it.

Swimmer

Thank you.  So that means basically 'nobody there'.  Its like the empty package, I've heard it described as like, the parcel is so well wrapped and looks attractive, but when you open in theres always nothing inside.  And somehow, we/ or me anyway, fall for it over and over, trying to solve the problem. 

[debkor]

I feel this way about them.

The lights are on but no ones home.

You are here now just waiting for you to show up.

Deb

[bearwithme]

Yes, the whole "there's nobody to work with" thing.  It really fascinates me to some degree.  The older I get the more I get this concept about my NM.  In some ways it infuriates me and in others it is the stark reality and I'm okay with it.  In the way it infuriates me is that the outright injustice of her not understanding why I don't contact her all the time and why I don't want to be her friend and why I have set boundaries and why I stick up for myself and why I had to go to therapy, etc., when all I have done is reiterate to her all the reasons why I do or did those things (albeit it always leads to a blowout fight).  Nontheless, she is clueless about my feelings.  She will never get the "whys" and "what fors."  Hence: There's nobody to work with.  This fact just makes me so angry sometimes.

The other times, this concept makes me sad.  I'm sad about the absence of a real person in my NM.  I'm sad that she's not there and I was fooled into thinking throughout my childhood that she was a "great" mother and there was no one like her and I believed it for so long.  I'm sad that no one is inside of her for me to love and be loved. 

It took me 38 years to realize that there was nobody to work with but ironically, I tend to keep trying to work with her and end up failing and getting hurt.  I will learn this one day tried and true and that's when I think I'll be ready to go NC.

This thread's been great!

Bear

[Hopalong]

the outright injustice of her not understanding

(((Bear)))

One of the longest, hardest lessons I ever grasped (and only fairly recently) was that I needed, for my own life's sake, to accept that there is injustice, that it will never be fully righted, that it is one of the side effects of Nism as inevitably as a side effect of an unpreventable random disease, and that this is something I need to learn to be at peace in the midst of, regardless.

If I ever, ever want to be happy. Or have peace.

I can give my peace up to my Ns as though they own it (it's free as air), or I can claim it as my own reality.

And it's begun to work. My Nmother, my NP(psychopathic spectrum, I truly believe) brother, my Nbosses present and past...

They're like the weather of this winter. I had no choice but to learn how to find warmth, how to cheer myself through the cold, how to remember that spring belongs to no one.

So, no one, even Ns in all directions, can prevent me from experiencing the joy of spring. Or daily joys. But my belief that justice must come first, or that Ns own peace, can prevent me.

That's how I see it. It's a huge relief. Some days I wobble and forget. But in general, knowing that happiness does not belong to anyone, but is there for me as much as I choose to claim it, has supplanted the old belief that justice must come before I can be happy.

Justice won't come. Or if it does, it won't be about me when it does. Meanwhile...should I miss spring?

Don't miss spring, dear Bear.

love,
Hops

[Logy]

Thanks to all those who explained the "nobody to work with" comment. I didn't understand at first either. 

How those simple words convey so much!!!  Bear, you expressed the feelings that go along with this so well! 

Logy

[bearwithme]

But my belief that justice must come first, or that Ns own peace, can prevent me.

Hops, this is clear to me as you put it.  This is my holding tank, sad, but true, and I struggle.  I want to experience and enjoy the "Spring" and I am entitled to, thank you for that.  Let me work on this.

I just realized this as I was reading your post:  I can't enjoy the "Spring" because I am too hung up on my NM's current philosophy, which has covertly shown me that I want justice or need justice to move on.  Her position in life is this:   NM parades around about how "happy" she is and how "satisfied" she is with her life.  My NM constantly tells me that she is so "fulfilled in [her] life" and "lives for the Lord."  She says she "blames no one" (what??) and that she "is the happiest and most "peaceful" she's ever been and reiterates that she doesn't "need things or people to be happy" and "has forgiven and forgotten " (what, I don't know and that makes me upset). 

Basically, she is content in her life and this has come even after I have gone LC.  This oddly hurts me (all over again).  She is happy without me???  She is the HAPPIEST SHE'S EVER BEEN???  She is even more at peace and happier now that she doesn't see her only granddaughter all that much and I have limited contact with her???  What???

So let me get this straight.  If I go NC then she'll be so ecstatic she'll pee her pants with the utmost happiness!!  Why don't I do it, then?

All kidding aside.  I may be seeking this invisible, nonexistent justice because my NM actually feels the peace and happiness that I so much want. 

How did she get peace and happiness and I didn't?  She stole it from me.

Will this ever end?

Bear.

[Portia]

((((((Bear))))))
She hasn't got the peace and happiness. She lies, they all lie, and they lie to themselves all the time. They have to do that. It's how they work. Okay, we all create our own stuff to an extent, but not to their extent. They're not inhabiting the same reality. She didn't steal anything - she wouldn't recognise the goodness if it kissed her on the arse. Okay?

What if they all peed their pants at exactly the same time......hmmm...

[bearwithme]

((((((Bear))))))
She hasn't got the peace and happiness. She lies, they all lie, and they lie to themselves all the time. They have to do that. It's how they work. Okay, we all create our own stuff to an extent, but not to their extent. They're not inhabiting the same reality. She didn't steal anything - she wouldn't recognise the goodness if it kissed her on the arse. Okay?

What if they all peed their pants at exactly the same time......hmmm...

I needed this!!

[swimmer]

Bear, I highly doubt your mother is at peace.... if she is, it's "N" peace, which is never peace.  Just remember, when an N gets another narc feed, they are happy.  This depersonalizes the whole thing, and takes you out of the feed loop.  I gained a pinch of progress when I googled narc feed..

I guess basically, when the N is happy, we are off the hook?  Portia posted something on this thread that reminded me to examine what my goal is with NC.  Twoapenny also posted here with statements which are very clear regarding this very difficult question of LC or NC.

Still processing all this.... It's nice to hear you guys post, so many different ways of approaching this and processing.

Swimmer

[cantors.counter]

Wow, swimmer, I could have written that very post about my mother. My children are a tad older (my "baby" just turned double digits...10!?) and with each passing year, I become more and more confident in my choice. You're able to put it so much better than I could when mine were little. For me it was just an inkling of something being wrong. I'm happy for you that you can see your NM's manipulations for what they are.

Ooops. I forgot to add:

I just feel like such a failure I can't "handle" my mother enough for LC.  I'm a very hopeful person, but have none for my own mother....this is the part I feel like I must be the crazy one.  I kinda hate her actually.     

I struggle with this myself. It's important to remember, though, that not you who's the failure. I don't understand it, but it seems that people who have "good enough" mothers don't have to "handle" them. They have a certain fondness for them that seems almost inherent that assists them in seeing past those annoying traits that we all possess. (Aaaargh! I can't seem to put this next part into words....and now my train of thought just left the station. Ugh. So, maybe I'll edit this more later...blah.)

[swimmer]

Cantorscounter-  I understand what you're saying.  I call what you said a mother who takes the high road without thought, or works to.  There is no conflict with a normal mother really... it's a woman growing herself, out of love for a child..... Instead of projecting life inconveniences and griefs on a child.  Now I'm not sure if I make sense;)

swimmer 

[bearwithme]

Thank you Swimmer, Portia...

I guess you're right.  NM is not REALLY at peace and happy because I gather she doesn't really know how to "be" happy and peaceful.  But why NM tells me over and over again is just beyond annoying.  It's almost like she's trying to make me jealous or something or to want something she has.  These N's are always trying tricks and planting seeds of whatevers.

My NM is a lonely person.  She lives alone and doesn't get along well with people.  She has a roomate right now and NM can't stand her due to the roomate just being there in her house. 

NM just spent $14,000 cash on improving her home and my brother is filing for BK and is severely depressed about it.  I know it's not her problem but come on!

Thanks for the feedback all of you!!

((((hugs))))

Bear