My responsibility to explain NM?

[swimmer]

Trying to dig myself out of meloncholic blah today....  This is what I came up with.

When people ask why I'm NC (relatives, family friends), is it my responsibility to explain how bad my mother was to me?  I know I've mentioned here in another thread it would be best to say it's a personal matter, but I'm feeling so responsible some how.

Maybe I'm just living the brainwashing tapes, that it's all my fault again.  I feel a little better already..... It's silly, I wasn't born bad like my mother said.

Swimmer

[Portia]

Swimmer, in a word, no.

How about answering 'why are you NC with X?' with something along the lines of: I have my reasons and I don't expect anyone else to understand. It's not easy, but it's the decison I've made.

If they ask you to expand, don't. That's their problem, not yours. Change the subject. Ask them about their day. Other people's confusion ain't our responsibility either.Try and make them feel calm about what you say. Look calm and resolute. That's what I'm working on. Maybe some of it might work for you?

[Ami]

Yes, I feel quite sure you are living the brainwashing tapes (((Swimmer)))) Those damn tapes will be the death of us--LOL. I hope not! 
    x o x o  Ami

[Lollie]

No, swimmer, you don't have to explain. In fact, I think you have the right to NOT explain. And furthermore, you don't even have to explain why you don't want to explain!

Your question moved me to post this "Personal Bill of Rights for Adult Children," originally written for Adult Children of Alcoholics (can be found here: http://acainnerpeace.ncf.ca/billofri.htm). I've found it really helpful when I need to remind myself of the things I really do have a right to, rights most people take for granted. I've modified it a bit here (took out the references to alcohol) for you.

Personal Bill of Rights for Adult Children
I have a right to all those good times that I have longed for all these years and didn’t get.
I have a right to joy in this life, right here, right now — not just a momentary rush of euphoria but something more substantive.
I have a right to relax and have fun in a nondestructive way.
I have a right to actively pursue people, places, and situations that will help me in achieving a good life.
I have the right to say no whenever I feel something is not safe or I am not ready.
I have a right to not participate in either the active or passive “crazy-making” behavior of parents, of siblings, and of others.
I have a right to take calculated risks and to experiment with new strategies.
I have a right to change my tune, my strategy, and my funny equations.
I have a right to “mess up”; to make mistakes, to “blow it”, to disappoint myself, and to fall short of the mark.
I have a right to leave the company of people who deliberately or inadvertently put me down, lay a guilt trip on me, manipulate or humiliate me, including my <narcissistic> parent, my <CoN> parent, or any other member of my family.
I have a right to put an end to conversations with people who make me feel put down and humiliated.
I have a right to all my feelings.
I have a right to trust my feelings, my judgment, my hunches, my intuition.
I have a right to develop myself as a whole person emotionally, spiritually, mentally, physically, and psychologically.
I have a right to express all my feelings in a nondestructive way and at a safe time and place.
I have a right to as much time as I need to experiment with this new information and these new ideas and to initiate changes in my life.
I have a right to sort out the bill of goods my parents sold me — to take the acceptable and dump the unacceptable.
I have a right to a mentally healthy, sane way of existence, though it will deviate in part, or all, from my parents' prescribed philosophy of life.
I have a right to carve out my place in this world.
I have a right to follow any of the above rights, to live my life the way I want to, and not wait until my <narcissistic> parent gets well, gets happy, seeks help, or admits there is a problem.

I hope some of this is helpful.
Lollie

[swimmer]

Thx Portia, Ami & Lollie-  I just have to shake that feeling I'm supposed to explain.  I never expect other people to explain themselves over anything.  Of course I don't pry, and hope people respect my boundaries based on how I respect theirs. 

That bill of rights is very nice, I will refer to it Lollie.  Thx for taking the time you guys.... I just can't fathom putting my daughter in this position I'm in, I feel I'm in this surreal nightmare lately.... Overall happy, but in my still moments I have to shakes these thoughts away constantly.

If anyone else is reading this post, I'd like to hear your thoughts if you'd like to share as well.

Swimmer 

[HeartofPilgrimage]

I've never had to go NC, so it's hard for me to know what I'd do. It's also hard for me to believe that people that are close enough for it to be any way shape or form their business, that they would have NO CLUE as to why you are NC.

My first cousin knows how my mom is ... his mom is just like her. If it ever got bad enough for either one to go NC, I wouldn't ask why and I'm guessing he wouldn't either. My mom might ask HIM, and my aunt might ask ME, but since they're both Ns, I wouldn't expect them to understand even after I explained.

All I can think of to possibly say is, "I'd rather not go into it, but you'll just have to trust me that I wouldn't do something so drastic just on a whim. It takes some pretty serious stuff for a kid to go NC with a parent." As petty as the N stuff is, going into details would just make you sound like the petty one. You don't need that.

[Gaining Strength]

I spent all of my time this morning narcissistically writing about myself so I only have a moment but all of my personal experience and from listening to others here I believe that you are 100% correct that others will not understand.  I find that others ALWAYS minimize the experience I recount to them.  I believe that it is impossible to understand unless you ahve lieved it and even then it is not always possible to get it.

As to the "feeling responsible" - that is one of the crime against humanity that growing up with N parents does to offspring.  I encourage you to counter it in your own mind when you feel it.  Say to yourself (outloud if possible) "I am not responsible.  This feeling of being responsible is FALSE and is one of the cruel costs of growing up with an N mother.  I will not accept this feeling as truth."  Counter it and deny it and replace it with the truth.  "My mother is responsible but she put it off on my and I accepted it because I was a child who needed to believe her for my very survival."

[Twoapenny]

Hi Swimmer,

I found that I had taken responsibility for everyone and everything my whole life, without even being aware of it.  When I stopped speaking to my mum, I felt like I had to constantly justify my decision and that I needed other people to understand how bad it was, to sympathise with me and to agree with me.

I think it's all part of 'how we were raised'.  You've made a healthy decision to cease contact with your mum because her behaviour is unacceptable and it's having a negative effect on you, your health and your family.  In the past, your 'responsibility' has been to receive whatever your mum dishes out.  That was your childhood role.  You were probably made to feel like things were your fault and, if your mum is anything like mine, nothing was down to her - she drank because we were so hard to manage, she yelled at us because we were so badly behaved, she criticised us because she knew we could do better and we weren't trying hard enough - the list goes on.  When you've not been taught that your feelings are important, that you should expect everyone in your life to treat you well, that you are responsible for yourself and no-one else (except for your kids when they are little) it's really hard to fit yourself into that as an adult.  I've always found that my head understands stuff years before my heart catches up.  It's easy to intellectualise feelings and emotions, but much harder to stop feeling them!


I've been NC now for three years and it's probably only in the last six months that I've genuinely felt like I don't have to justify myself to anyone or need other  people to tell me what I do is okay.  I can trust myself and my own judgements now, so I don't feel like I need someone else to sanction what I do (most of the time, I still have the odd wobble!).  I don't talk about my family much anymore.  Someone I bumped into yesterday asked me if I still don't speak to my mum - I just said no, I don't and asked her about her new job.  Quite honestly your family situation is no-one else's business - and that includes other relatives.

For me, it's got easier over time.  I think a neutral statement such as the one Portia suggests is a good tactic.  BUt I think the most important thing is to work on your own acceptance of the situation and to get to a point where you have faith in the decisions that you make and in your own right to live a peaceful life.  The trouble is we grow up thinking this kind of abuse is very normal, so we feel like we need permission to get out of it.  I look back on the person I used to be and I don't recognise her.  I listen to other people taking abuse from their parents/partner/boss etc and I am taken aback at how easily they accept it - and then I remember that I used to, too.

Standing up for yourself isn't wrong, it just bothers other people because it means they have to look at their own situaitons more objectively.  A lot of people would rather just ignore it, so you get these family situations where people think you should just put up and shut up.  If other people want to do that that's fine but I got tired of it and wanted to set a good example for my son.  I don't want him having those sort of dysfunctional relationships so it's only right that I don't have them either.  Hope this has typed okay because my PC keeps jumping the screen and I keep losing text!!  I don't know why!

Hugs to you ((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[HeartofPilgrimage]

You could lift a line from dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) and say ... "I'm protecting my peace and stability."

[bearwithme]

Swimmer: I would like to "ditto" everything everyone said here.  Wow, such great advice, I'm taking it for myself!! 

I just want you to know that I totally understand and it's frustrating sometimes.  Just add it to the pile, right?  But like everyone said here, no one else will understand and you have to be okay with that.  All the explaining in the world wouldn't bring them into your world and your rights.

I need to practice what Portia stated, move on from the subject and be calm....

(((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))

Bear

[JustKathy]

Swimmer, I absolutely understand how hard it is to shake the feeling that we're supposed to explain. I think a lot of it (at least for me) is that people can be very judgmental about a child who has ended contact with a parent. It seems to be a bit of a taboo. A parent who disowns a child often gets approval for that decision because they have a reason (kid got in trouble with the law, used drugs, any number of excuses), but there is not a lot of understanding when it's the child who walks away. At least that's been my observation, especially with public figures. For example, Angelina Jolie. When I listen to beauty shop gossip, or whatever, people seem to feel that she's being some kind of cruel b!tch for being NC with her dad, when she may have a very good reason for it. I hear stuff like that, and think that people are going to judge me the same way.

That said, people who know you well may be more aware than you realize that something is "off" with your NM. I have a family dentist who I've been seeing since I was a child. He's known us for over 35 years. My parents moved out of the area several years ago, and every time I see the dentist, the first thing he does is ask how my parents are. I finally decided this year to quit pretending, and just tell him the truth. He knows that my mother has cancer, and when I saw him last month, the first thing out of his mouth was "How is your mother doing?" I told him that I didn't know, that I was no longer in contact with my parents because there was too much drama in the family, and that it was more than I could handle. He paused for a few moments and said, "You went through a lot, didn't you?" I practically fell out of the chair. He knew, or at least knew enough. I didn't elaborate, and just told him, "Yes, I have been through a lot," and we left it at that. But he knew. He was probably being so nice about it, and asking how they were, because I was pretending that everything was okay.

Long story short, I am SO glad that I finally told the truth. I'm sick of covering for NM and have decided that I'm just not going to do it anymore. If some people don't get it, then to heck with them. I have my reasons, and that's all that anyone needs to know. So to answer your question, no, it isn't your responsibility to offer up an explanation. But I think it's important to realize that family and friends may have a good intuition about it anyway, so if we choose to omit the details, they're still likely to understand.

[Hopalong]

I think children actually love their parents forever, and that it's hardwired.

I finally felt a little liberated from the explaining thing (though I was never NC), when it occured me to start saying, "I love my mother, but I don't like her."

I think if there was so much abuse I needed to go NC, I might say (just imagining this, don't know if it would ring true for someone else):

"I love my mother, but I just have to do that from a distance."

If that doesn't shut them up...I don't know. You are NOT obligated to soothe others' anxiety, which is of course all it's about.

hugs
Hops

[swimmer]

I'm getting a lot out of these responses, thank you everyone.  I'm really getting that, peoples reaction to my relationship with my mother has everything to do with them, not me.  It is about other peoples anxiety and how I respond to that... If that makes sense.   

It's funny, at first thought and deep inside, I don't see myself as the one who walked away from my mother.  My NM and I have been at a cross roads to different degrees throughout my life, so she knows how I respond to her tricks predictably.  That is what is so sick, is I think she had some thought about actually driving me away.  I don't think it's really about me though, I think it's just too painful for my mom to learn how to get along with me in a normal way.  I've told my NM what I won't  tolerate plain and simple, so she walked away from me by not even trying after all these years.... At least I think?  There I go again!!

Swimmer

[bearwithme]

He paused for a few moments and said, "You went through a lot, didn't you?" I practically fell out of the chair. He knew, or at least knew enough. I didn't elaborate, and just told him, "Yes, I have been through a lot," and we left it at that. But he knew. He was probably being so nice about it, and asking how they were, because I was pretending that everything was okay.

This happened to me also with a childhood friend of mine's mother.  She saw me in tears one day and said, "You're going to be okay....you will one day see your mother in a different light and I pray that you will be strong."  I almost fainted when she said that.  (this was 22 years ago).

Thanks for sharing that.

Bear.

[HeartofPilgrimage]

It's funny how you really don't know what's going on inside people's heads, isn't it, JustKathy? I remember you posting about the family dentist before, and seems to me that you wrote that you didn't want to be honest about your NC with your parents because he talked about them as if he thought they were ideal. Yet when you were honest, he knew at least a bit of what they were like! Sounds to me like, when you would come into his office, his memories of your parents would be triggered (maybe they were memorable for their N b.s. that they pulled in the office, or maybe they had the facade on but he felt uncomfortable due to a sense that all was not right) ... and so he would say something really nice about them to compensate in his own mind for thinking they were pills.

Of course that is just one interpretation but his reaction when you were honest reminds me that the reason people say things often is really convoluted.