Author Topic: What we will never get from our Ns  (Read 16665 times)

flower

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What we will never get from our Ns
« on: October 22, 2004, 02:43:51 AM »
Here's a link on apologizing and what is involved in a genuine apology.

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What it Means to be Sorry:
The Power of Apology in Mediation

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Mediation Quarterly, Vol. 17, Number 3 (Spring 2000)

Carl D. Schneider, Ph.D., Mediation Matters

http://www.divorcenet.com/md/mdart-14.html

Dot

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2004, 09:32:18 AM »
some more on apologising...

3 types of apology

One: “Yes that happened, I accept my responsibility and I am sorry.” A true apology.

Two: “Well perhaps something like that happened but not as you describe it. I’m sorry you were upset but I was very busy at the time, my health was poor, you don’t know what I had to put up with from your father…..”
“I’m sorry you were upset” is a statement of pity for someone, but it the pity we feel for someone whose suffering has nothing to do with us personally. It is not an apology.

Three: “How dare you say that to me! The things you’re talking about never happened.”


Two and three are refusals to establish what did in fact happen.

About people who use methods two and three: “The fear of losing the picture they have of themselves in the world, their fear of a conscience punishing them for past misdeeds, may be so strong that it makes it impossible for them to take their relationships with other people into consideration. Usually such people do not love their challenger, and so there is no incentive for them to look after the challenger, particularly if doing so would put them at risk. They might profess a love for the challenger and believe that they are telling the truth, but all they ever feel is a mild, sentimental affection, and then only when the challenger pleases them. They might want the challenger to love them, but not at the expense of allowing that person a victory over them.

One of the saddest, hardest things that we have to do is to accept that those people, who in an ideal world would have loved us bountifully simply because we existed, are limited by their own sense of being unloved and by their jealousy, envy and hate – to the extent that they are unable even to know what generosity and compassion are, much less exhibit them….to admit that by unlucky chance we have been born into a family where love is in very short supply, that is a sadness we take to the grave. Difficult though it is, the best we can do is not blame ourselves for being unlovable but to see the situation clearly and do what can be sensibly done to protect ourselves from further hurt.”

OnlyMe

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2004, 10:20:12 AM »
Thank you, flower, for this thread.

And, Thank you, Dot, for your comments.  I just logged on to start a new thread, but your last paragraph was just what I needed to hear, to reaffirm what I already know.
I am trying to take a day for myself, to try to restore my health and I just let a long-distance call from nMom go to answering - then I listened to the message, and it was nothing, really.  I wasn't home last nite when she phoned, and talking with my dear H is just not enough for her.  She hates it when she needs to feed from my energy and I am not available.  I am her NFood supply - she feeds, I grow weak.
And, yet, I was filled with guilt as I stood watching the phone ring.

Then I read your post, and it brought me back to reality - it is all about Her.  Your post helped give me the strength to carry on with my day of emotional healing.  I have experienced both #2 and #3, and will never hear #1.
 
Sometimes, when I begin to doubt what I know to be true, it is so very reassuring to read the words of others in this group, and realize that it is okay to look after myself.  And it is healing to know that I am on the right path.
~ OnlyMe

Dot

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2004, 10:27:58 AM »
(((((Only Me)))))

It is not only okay to look after yourself, but it is also necessary and paramount to look after yourself. And you're doing great! :)

Anonymous

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2004, 10:42:22 AM »
***thank you***
I needed that ....  
I'm having little boohoos here, but 'good' boohoos.
~Only Me, not logged in at the moment

bunny

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2004, 01:19:34 PM »
flower: Thanks for the link. I'm printing the article now.

Dot: WOW. What a post. Lots of wisdom there.


bunny

satori

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2004, 01:26:01 PM »
that's a great article!  last week in my divorce settlement conference I apologized for something I said  that offended my xN.  he didn't acknowlege or accept my apology.  the funny thing is... both the judge and his attorney started treating me with greater respect and actually started calling him on his bs!  all that aside, I can feel good about myself because I am trying to act with integrity, regardless of the actions of others.

Anonymous

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2004, 09:57:53 AM »
hi Flower, it looks fine on my home PC. Are you using some sort of parental control filter or library PC? Perhaps it is filtering out words and replacing them with ???s.

can you copy and paste a part where you see this and we can compare..? or quote a sentence and I'll have a look..

OnlyMe

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2004, 10:59:34 AM »
Quote
This doubt injury is so hard. I have been injured by my mom's doubt. I've called my mom 'doubt on legs' because doubt is her favorite past time. She puts doubt on almost everything another person says. She ammends comments about the weather


Doubt injury - what a perfect phrase, as is 'doubt on legs'!
Even when I am asked "will that be mashed potatoes or baked?" I can't make up my mind - every single thing I said was questioned and negated, even when I was attempting to agree with NM.  Now I don't trust my own decisions, most of the time, but now I understand why.  I'm working on it, but your expression "doubt injury" says it all.   :idea:

My favourite courses in school, way back when, were the maths and sciences, and now I understand why : when I had the right answer, there was no doubt, or when I had the wrong answer, there was no doubt, but I could learn what to do to get it right.
With NM, I could never get the right answer, ever.   Hmmm, interesting flashback.
~ OnlyMe

Anonymous

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2004, 08:52:26 AM »
Kellydckm here - You guys, it always amazes me when I log in and hear other people going through the same things as I!  I cannot believe that in one day I can forget and start feeling sorry for my Nmom.  

Boy, why didn't I figure that Math thing out????  As I look bad over my life I can remember time and again when my mom edited something I wrote until it became something SHE wrote!  Talk about invalidating everything I ever said or did.

Doubt on legs - Doubt injury!!  Everything I have ever done has had either doubt or guilt attached to it.

Oh, I am being flooded with negative memories!!!  Gee whiz, it's a no wonder I am so confused about my decision to maybe leave our family business..........no matter what I decide to do, there will be doubt and shame and guilt thrown all over it................I am doomed to feel bad about the very decision that might set me free!

Guess it is like a divorce.  Even if you know it is the right thing to do, you can be assured that you are going to go through a very ugly couple of years and if your situation is sooooo bad, you'll endure the pain just to get out of it.  Then your life is totally different so you have to adjust to a new life.  

I guess we are all in this boat together.  Sometimes I think this forum is the only place in the whole world where people understand the hurt and the pain and the angst and the frustration....................

les

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2004, 09:44:17 AM »
I am so grateful for the wisdom on this board. Sometimes I don't have the emotional strength to read all the posts but I am so glad when I open a new one. The phrase "Doubt Injury" is so helpful. Now that I am more aware I see how this plays out with Nm and I see that others experience this damaging manifestation of NPD.  Just how many twisted ways does this disorder show itself I wonder.

Les:" So your diarehea is getting worse then is it mother?" Nm: "No, I wouldn't say it's getting worse! It's more frequent." Huh?  Next time I'll be ready. What do they get out of this?

Les

Dot

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2004, 11:10:19 AM »
Flower? I posted this

Quote
hi Flower, it looks fine on my home PC. Are you using some sort of parental control filter or library PC? Perhaps it is filtering out words and replacing them with ???s.

can you copy and paste a part where you see this and we can compare..? or quote a sentence and I'll have a look..

and then you said above
Quote
When those who post introduce themselves and identify themselves and establish an identity on the board their input can be processed and responded to in a more supportive manner. Please identify yourselves guests so that we can better support your healing from voicelessness and your emotional survival.

Did you mean my post re: the question marks? Just trying to help you. Or is it someone/something else? Very confused here.

OnlyMe

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2004, 07:43:26 PM »
Quick comment :
Just got off the phone from listening to NMom, who was telling me about having the minister for dinner last nite, and she said to me, her only child :
  " ... and I told him that I am the last remaining member of the family!"
I cringed, and blurted "No you're not, I am!".
She tried to stumble/explain that she meant 'the immediate family' - like I'm not a member of the immediate family - I'm the only family she has left (me and dear H).
Just when I think she can't hurt me any more......dang!  :roll:
~ OnlyMe

Anonymous

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2004, 02:11:38 AM »
Quote from: Anonymous
Kellydckm here - You guys, it always amazes me when I log in and hear other people going through the same things as I!  I cannot believe that in one day I can forget and start feeling sorry for my Nmom.  


A large "Me too!" on this one. I've posted a very few times and then just sort of wandered off from here...and yes I started to forget, or doubt, that my parent(s) way of doing things are seriously mucked up-- maybe I was overreacting. Then their recent behavior sent me crying to my (carefully hidden and guarded) journal and I remembered this board.  I'm glad I came back. After reading a link on another thread about NPD, I think I can admit to myself that my mother and father fit this and maybe I'm not crazy for thinking they are NPD-type people.  I do feel sorry for them as I know they were raised this way too, but that absolutley does NOT give them the right to inflict this family curse on their children...and unfortunatly they have and continue to do so.

Their is much empathy and keen insight on the thread and I'm glad that board members are willing to share.  I don't know if anyone with Nparents feels like it takes some courage to be talking about it in a public forum, but to me it sometimes feels like I'm doing something bad, like I'm letting this dirty family secret be known.  

peace and true selves,
Kiba Jin in guest mode

Singer

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2004, 06:55:36 PM »
Quote from: OnlyMe

Just when I think she can't hurt me any more......dang!  :roll:


After working very hard for the last year and a half to lose weight so that I could have more confidence while looking for a new job, my Nmother's comment to me yesterday was, "You look like hell, your face is too thin." I don't even think she remembered ten seconds later that she'd said it, comments like that just roll off her tongue. I second that dang!   :cry:

Singer