Author Topic: What we will never get from our Ns  (Read 16791 times)

Kiba Jin

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2004, 08:16:28 PM »
Quote from: Singer
Quote from: OnlyMe

Just when I think she can't hurt me any more......dang!  :roll:


After working very hard for the last year and a half to lose weight so that I could have more confidence while looking for a new job, my Nmother's comment to me yesterday was, "You look like hell, your face is too thin." I don't even think she remembered ten seconds later that she'd said it, comments like that just roll off her tongue. I second that dang!   :cry:

Singer


I feel for both of you.  I too have lost an amazing (to me anyway) amount of weight *slowly* this last year and half and my parents noticed, but in a "maybe you're getting too skinny" kinda way -- I don't agree on too skinny; my BMI is out of the obese range and now in moderatly overweight, though I think I'm looking pretty good.  Then the junk food came flooding into the house and Nmom looks daggers at me everythime I leave the house to go bike riding. There's a lot of games going on with food and money  in our house -- like Nmom buys whatever she feels like (cigarettes, KFC, creamer, coffee...that's about all her food groups) and I play hell getting her to buy some veggies or just any damn plain healthy food for me because 'she's out of money/too tired/whatever'. The message is clear -- You do not matter enough for me to bother.  So I third the dang!  It's like these Npeople have a gift for cutting comments coupled with amnesia.  Keep up on treating yourself well Singer, you deserve it as do we all.

peaceful days, restful nights,
KJ

findingme

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2004, 11:09:13 PM »
Quote
The word "editing" stands out to me here, Kelly. It is like our moms have a big red pen they take to everything we do.  I have felt like a sheet of homework handed back with all mistakes circled  and checked in red ink.


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The Contradictionary


Great concepts!  Makes perfect sense in my world...   :wink:

Portia

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2004, 11:45:11 AM »
Hi Flower and Bunny in particular, hello all. Coming here a bit late but….some info on that first post from Dot. The words are from Dr Dorothy Rowe (about apologising) from her book ‘Friends and Enemies’ which I recommend whole-heartedly. In it she occasionally talks about her mother, who was only interested in things which concerned her directly, had no empathy, would never take responsibility for anything, always blamed others etc etc. Rowe doesn’t label people with a disorder description or psychological mental state. She just describes what they do and think and why they do and think what they do and think. But Rowe goes so deep into the reasons for conflict, both at family level and internationally. Her reports on Israel, Northern Ireland, Serbia are eye-opening. She works with childrens’ orgs in N Ireland now.

I’m reading my way through everything of hers I can. She’s so down-to-earth and yet rooted in sound psychology too. She was once head of clinical psych in Lincs here in the UK. More info at her site (thanks to CG for the link): http://www.dorothyrowe.com.au/

Anyhow, she doesn’t publish in the US. I’ll quote from the second book below where she says (page 123): “I am aware of how lucky I am to be able to write what I want to write. This book could be published in very few countries. It is highly unlikely that it will ever be published in the USA, a country where the State and the Churches allow the freedom to get rich or to starve, but not the freedom to question such freedom. To ask such questions is to hold ‘liberal’ ideas, almost as reprehensible as being a ‘Communist’.”
I bookmarked that for this thread.  :D

So, if you like the sound of Rowe, can I recommend two books: ‘Friends and Enemies’ and ‘Wanting Everything’. It’s not like a ‘wanting everything’ self-help book. Fay Weldon describes it as a modern day Bible – i.e. to be used and discussed and thought about. I’m not half-way through it and it takes careful reading. It tells one version of the truth about countries, power, psychiatry, the arms industry and how it works with the pharmaceuticals industry (when a war is finished, the prozac moves in to ‘help’ the war-torn citizens). But it also talks about how we all live and deal with our everyday lives. She talks a lot about how introverts and extraverts are so different and how important it is to understand each other.

Heck, you’d think I was getting commission! I’m not, just enjoying (in a stretching way) what I’m reading and want to share it. You can buy from Amazon UK (the links below are to there) and get the books shipped across coz you won’t get good prices on second-hand ones in the US. I don’t know the rates but if you bundle a few together…?

http://tinyurl.com/5na22 - Friends and Enemies

http://tinyurl.com/5zok7 - Wanting Everything – the art of happiness

Sorry it’s such a long post and didn’t intend to upset the flow of the thread. Best, P

OnlyMe

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2004, 11:15:28 PM »
It's Only Me,
and I really need you all, warts and all.
My dear H says that since I have found you special ones, my life has been so much better, and for that I want to thank you.
In light of some of the shenanigans that are going on with some other threads, I am just stopping by for a moment to say that I hope that it doesn't change the essence of what we have here, for one another.  I am so much stronger, even though today one of my broken places needs mending.
It is a comfort to know that your voices are there, that I am part of a special group who understand the journey I am on, and who are walking a similar path.  I feel in my heart that we can grow strong and rise above our abuse, knowing that we are not alone, and that there are others here who understand the things unspoken.
Thank you for helping to save my life.  It would be a tremendous loss if we were to all scatter, now.
~ OnlyMe

Anonymous

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2004, 11:24:42 PM »
Hi OnlyMe,
Since you brought up the subject, is it wrong to stand up for yourself when wronged?

I have never had the guts to stand up for myself to anyone. This week I stood up for my son at school and got the best situation for him considering the circumstances.

On the board earlier someone bashed me to no end for suggesting a solution to some thread problems.

I have always been the blame for every thing wrong in this world, at least that's how it feels. Now look at me, at 45 I am regressing to this little 10 year old, wishing I could just disappear.

If I am not allowed to speak up for myself - AND show some anger once in a while I will go to my grave voiceless, and wishing I had the guts once in  while....this is ellie and I am hiding because I can take only so much bashing and then I hide... :oops:

Wildflower

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2004, 01:27:21 AM »
Hi flower,

Quote from: flower
Well I tried the little experiment:

Quote

I feel like going to the store and picking out something to buy that I don't want just because I decided to buy it and then live with the decision and be happy with my purchase. That will be a little counter the doubter symbolic act on my part. It will be interesting to see what results I get emotionally from that action. Maybe I'll just do this. flower
edited, I'm thinking along the lines of something too small or ugly or something I'm allergic to, a magazine on sport fishing (no offense to that interest) along those lines.

 
This experiment was an eyeopener! I went to a store today to find things I didn't want to buy. I ended up having an experience I least expected. I learned something about myself. It seemed healing. My husband and I went together and had fun. He said to me in jest as we looked around and had fun with the items, (It was a shop with all kinds of things, kind of like the old time variety store) "Somehow this seems wrong."


WOW!!!  This was so cool to read.  :D I just wanted to share my little experience with something similar.  For a while, I tried going to things I didn't like because I was trying to "expand my horizons".  Know what I found?  That there were all these crazy things that "I didn't like" or "I didn't enjoy" when in fact, it was quite the opposite.  I'd just adopted my parents rejection of, oh, pretty much EVERYTHING in the world that isn't about them.  Jeez. :roll: Crazy.  I've been avoiding so many fun things for so long because I'd become brainwashed into rejecting so many things.  That was such a huge moment for me (and pretty recent).

Thanks for sharing that, flower.

Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

Kiba Jin

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2004, 03:13:10 AM »
Quote from: Wildflower

WOW!!!  This was so cool to read.  :D I just wanted to share my little experience with something similar.  For a while, I tried going to things I didn't like because I was trying to "expand my horizons".  Know what I found?  That there were all these crazy things that "I didn't like" or "I didn't enjoy" when in fact, it was quite the opposite.  I'd just adopted my parents rejection of, oh, pretty much EVERYTHING in the world that isn't about them.  Jeez. :roll: Crazy.  I've been avoiding so many fun things for so long because I'd become brainwashed into rejecting so many things.  That was such a huge moment for me (and pretty recent).

Thanks for sharing that, flower.

Wildflower


Me too! Me too!  It's almost like our parents knew each other and shared that handy childrearing tip with each other ....what did they all read it in a magazine one day..."to isolate child for fun and profit, do the following...."  

My recent dorky discoveries: I like to hang out in coffee shops/ I like to go out at night/ I like to be around other people/I like to eat meals NOT centered around a big hunk of meat and 3 bits of broccoli cuz that's what Dad wants/ I would like to be more active in social causes, but am still wrestling with embarresment on that one -- our family was one of non-involvement with the non-family world.  Yay! Now to find out if I like snowboarding, being east of the Mississppi river and other assorted things.

It is  indeed a huge moment -- sorta like Christmas, but much more pleasant.

happy, happy, joy, joy,
KJ

OnlyMe

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2004, 07:24:28 AM »
Hi Ellie,
I am sooooo sorry, because it never crossed my mind that my comments would trigger something negative in you, or anyone else.   I had been reading some other threads, and became upset with the hurtful bantering back and forth.  It must have triggered something in me, and I was hoping to try to help, somehow.  Though my feelings were not directed at anyone in particular, I guess I had forgotten how they might inadvertantly affect others, and for that I am very sorry, so very sorry.  

I sincerely apologize to you and anyone else I may have upset, for it most certainly was not my intention.
I have been so grateful to find this group, and just didn't want anything to happen to it.  
I guess I should have remained quietly in the background.
~ OnlyMe

Portia

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2004, 07:53:12 AM »
Oh (((((((((Only me))))))))) :(

I doubt you've upset anyone! Not sure, but I doubt it. Please please don't go quiet! I'd hate that to happen to anyone here. True. Take heart OM coz you've got a great heart. I think so. Courage to you, P

Quote
is it wrong to stand up for yourself when wronged?
No! Stand up for yourself please. (((Ellie))) When folks say things they aren't necessarily talking about what you do, or what anyone else does. They're talking about what's inside their own heads. Just like I do. It's okay, it's all we're able to do. You do what you need to Ellie. And OnlyMe too. Just please don't leave and please don't stop talking. That's the worse thing.

Ellie

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2004, 11:20:05 AM »
...

OnlyMe

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2004, 12:21:08 PM »
Thanks, Ellie for being here today.  Thanks, Portia for your perspective.
I know I can be too sensitive at times, and maybe that is partly why I react the way I do - as a kid growing up, I was responsible for any little thing that went wrong in my NP's lives, even bad weather!  So, I usually walk a tight-rope trying my best to never step over any line, trying to always keep the peace.  Guess I was trying to do that here, when in fact, sometimes things sort themselves out best on their own!  I'm still learning and growing, and I didn't want to give up on this board and my little voice.  Maybe it was a bad night, all round.


[  On a lighter note re : your ref to motorcycles - I decided to buy and learn to ride a Harley two years ago, because I had a 'what am I waiting for?' moment!  My dearH did the same.  So, here I am with grey hair, and still haven't told my NM, never told my late NDad.  When I vaguely mentioned motorcycles, the neg comments started, so I knew that instead of being proud of me, they would do everything in their power to invalidate my dreams, yet again.  But this time, I only shared my dream with dearH, and with his support, it came true.  And, so, today I am riding, we are riding, better late than never.  8)   Every now and then I get a flash-forward of riding it to NM's funeral some day - after all, I'd be dressed in my black leathers, how appropriate?!!   Oh, bad thought!  ]
~ OnlyMe

Ellie

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2004, 01:35:46 PM »
See, things happen for a reason.....

OnlyMe, we have a wonderful hobby in common! But you have a couple years of seat time under your belt than I do. I will get there! I started out on a Honda Rebel 250, but next spring (if not before) I'm getting a Low Rider!!!!!!! Can't wait. H got a Fat Boy this year and I am so jealous but I just wasn't confident enough to start with the big machine.

And since this thread is about what we'll never get from our Ns:

Nparents will never be happy I ride...
Nparents would love to kill me for even taking the Rider's Edge course...
Nparents will probably never see me on my bike...
Nparents have not been told I own and ride the bike...

So I will never get support from Nfamily (since siblings and all must all follow Nparents) regarding the bike.

They will never know the success I felt when I completed the course, the success and thrill I felt after my first ride on the road, the thrill of riding in heavy traffic and surviving, the thrill of that motor growling between my legs, and the power I feel when I dress in my leathers, get on the bike and turn over the engine ------ VROOOOM, VROOOM!!!


OnlyMe said:
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Every now and then I get a flash-forward of riding it to NM's funeral some day - after all, I'd be dressed in my black leathers, how appropriate?!! Oh, bad thought!


We think alike! I would love to ride into town for both Nparents funerals with my riding buds, roaring those Harley engines, black leathers flying, adorned with doo rags, pony tails and the works   :twisted:

I'd be grinning from ear to ear just like each time I start up my ride right now. Can you hear the Newbie in my tone. Still can't get enough!

H and I are joining a group riding to Sturgis next year. That is my ultimate rebelous act for healing from Nparents! I just love the atmosphere at bike rallies!

"If the person in the next lane at the stoplight rolls up the window and locks the door, support their view of life by snarling at them. "

OnlyMe

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2004, 07:59:29 PM »
I'm currently on the phone 'listening' to  NM drone on and on about herself, so :

What we will never get from our N's :

"We'll never be able to get a word in edge-wise!" :P :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :P
~ OnlyMe

OnlyMe

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2004, 09:07:19 PM »
Free at last from the umbilical er I mean the telephone cord!
Ellie, huge congratulations on getting your motorcycle licence - what a powerful feeling!  Good idea to get your experience on the smaller ride - then you'll be ready for your HD, no problem!  I took the Safety Course, too.  
If only the NParents knew how to be proud of us! They just don't know or appreciate what they are missing!

Back to the thread, and a reflection of the past day on this board :
How wonderful it would be if all the misunderstandings could be resolved as comfortably as ours today .... :wink:
There is tremendous value and healing when we are honest, and have compassion for one another.  
Just my humble thoughts, with gratitude for this board and the healing and comfort it provides, most of the time! :wink:
~ OnlyMe

Portia

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What we will never get from our Ns
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2004, 10:24:34 AM »
Hiya Flower.  :D Sorry a biggie. Think I should tell you some stuff. I’m overwhelmed by your post (in a good way). A bit about what I did here. Boring but I want to say it. You posted that first link and it was great. I thought good, I can post that Rowe quote I saved about apologising coz the whole passage had a big effect on me. But at the time I wanted to not be Portia.  :oops: So I was Dot. And as Dot, I didn’t address you directly (say thank you for the link) coz I thought it was more anonymous. Make sense? Maybe not. I was glad people liked the post. So I thought at some point I must come back and identify the quote (to give Rowe her due as well). You posted about seeing question marks and I thought ‘odd’ maybe you’ve got that software that blanks out certain combinations of words? (Seeker mentioned she got asterixes when she typed ‘pushed hard on’ or something.) So I posted a question and you posted something back. And I pondered what was wrong. Then I thought aha, maybe it was the term ‘parental control filter’? Which is a computer term to me – filters out porny stuff so kids can’t access it. Maybe you’d taken that to mean something totally different, like some weird dig at your thinking? Possible I thought. Then you said you were fine with the question marks - (I warned you this was boring!) – and I thought okay, but that’s got me wanting to help you more! Have you worked out why you’re getting question marks and solved it? Or are you just ignoring them? And if so, I wanted to explain it rather than have you thinking something weird was going on with ‘Dot’ or with the web link. So then, ha ha, this is long isn’t it? :roll:  I thought yeah, must make it obvious it was me all along, give the info about Rowe and give you the chance to ask if you wish about the question marks. ....

Is this tortured or what? So when I was back in P mode and talking to Phoenix, I dropped in the Rowe stuff. Why did I include that quote about not being published in the US. Because it made me wonder? I’ve been so stuck in her books, and it’s been like reading my own thoughts from years ago. In fact, it’s been scary in that way. Like I’d buried everything. And I also thought I shouldn’t be agreeing with her, lock stock and barrel. I expect to disagree with every book I read somewhere along the line. If I don’t, I must be swallowing it whole, being gullible? That’s my thinking. And that quote about the US niggled me. Because people aren’t left to starve, I know that. But I was so stuck on her, I couldn’t see an alternative. I just thought it’s wrong, but why has she written that? To be clear, this book was published in 94. I can’t remember 10 years ago easily. But it still doesn’t make that quote okay. And then you told me the alternative – that she probably couldn’t get a contract. Simple and so obvious and logical! I couldn’t get to that. I was just stuck in ‘why?’. Which makes me wonder if I was making Rowe a mother in reading her. Coz now I can see all the times I was asking ‘why’ with mother. But I couldn’t use logic to get to the answer, because, well, you know the answer. What a great lesson! And maybe next time I’ll recognise that confusion? Hope so. (I'm guessing this is what my head did. Tough feedback welcome.)

And what did you do? Gave me a wonderful description of your reaction, how you see things and it’s great! But I wish I’d been upfront with the posts in the first place and I wish I’d said I was confused about that quote. To be honest, I couldn’t even *think* about the quote so I saved it for here in the hope that someone would decipher it for me. And you did. Thank you. I’m just sorry that you went to such lengths to respond because I wasn’t attacking the US, it was only after I posted I looked at it and thought maybe it was political. And it was, and it didn’t make sense.

I liked the story about the English teacher. Maybe she should have said “is it safe to walk that road at night?” I think we all have an idea of what that means. We all want to be safe and free! Hey some in the UK would say we’re not part of Europe at all and get quite worked up about the idea. Sovereignty and all that. Some would commute on the train to do their job in France or Belgium. Many of us would say we’re much, much closer in culture, economy and ideas to the US. Heck we’re all people. One of my favourite novelists is Canadian Margaret Atwood. ‘The handmaid’s tale’ made a big impression on me and it could have been written in a number of countries. I guess the story is more important than where it comes from. Yeah, that sounds good! :D

Enough for now and sorry for the long explanation and apologies for being Dot. Pretty dumb of me. Yep, it was. Going to read your post again! Thanks Flower. P
Hey all this motorbike stuff is making me envious.  8) I want one! I just wish we had some big open spaces to ride them. The crowded south east is not somewhere I’d recommend for bikes or peace of mind. We’re all pretty nuts down here and people drive like lunatics. I should know ha ha :D