Charm offensive?

[Lucky]

My stepdaughter of 17 years old told her father and me in the past some awful stuff about her mother. She told us her mother regularly slapped her, threatened her, cursed at her, called her names, etc. Her experiences sounded just like her father's experiences with the woman. But last Monday my husband's daughter came to our place and all of a sudden she is idealizing and idolizing her mother. I am really glad that things seem to be better between the two but still I am rather blown away by ther difference in how the girl sees her mother compared to how she saw her mother a while ago.
Does anyone recognize this kind of charm offensive by an N parent? Because I am almost certain that the woman is a N but I can't be 100% sure ofcourse.

[Nonameanymore]

Hi Lucky,

Did you try talking to her to found out more about her mother?

P

[Lucky]

Hi Persephone,

We were too much blown away to say anything actually. My stepdaughter was giving her mother so much praise all of a sudden while we ourselves did not start talking about her mother. She was talking about her mother as if she is a Saint and she started saying that all the troubles in the past were mostly her own doing and her mother is so much everybody's victim. It was like the talk of a salesperson trying to sell something. But in the past her mother told her daughter that she hated her, regularly slapped her, hysterically screamed and shouted at her, threatened her with kicking her out of the house and with committing suicide, her mother once kicked her daughter out of the car in the middle of the night and drove away, all things her father knows the mother does because she also used to behave the same way with him. So therefore I think the mother has started some kind of charm offensive and the effect is really impressive. My mother never did that with me so for me this is something new. I have never felt like idolizing and idealizing my mother and seeing her as everybody's victim. Actually I find this whole thing rather fascinating from a psychological point of view.
We have always tried to not talk too much about the mother and also not too negatively when we do say something.

[Lucky]

Something I forgot to add: my stepdaughter said that her mother is actually too frail pschychologically to be working parttime and later on she asked her father if he can't do something to earn more money so that he can pay more for/to her.

[Nonameanymore]

Well, she sounds like a daugher of an NM. What you wrote also sounds a little bipolar...who knows. (my NM is both). Or maybe she suffers from a completely different disorder.
In my experience of lately, I noticed that when I share some of my issues with NM, there have been a couple of friends mentioning that their Ms or Ds may have some N traits. Maybe if you share some of your experiences, she will open up. They are like the plague...
I never idolised my NM either, but sometimes, out of pure guilt, and/or mainly triggered by wishful thinking, I would say that she is good and nice and giving etc. Maybe she blackmails her to say these things.

If you care about her, (which I am sure you do), maybe talk to her and see if she opens up on what's going on...

[Lucky]

I do care about her, in the past I had my share of sleepless nights worrying about her and the situation with her mother.
I am afraid that if I start asking questions about the recent state of things it would seem like I am not happy with the fact that things are (seem?) harmonious now between her and her mother. And I really do wish for her to have a good relationship with her mother.

In the past we used to see my stepdaughter every other weekend, we never had real problems with her. Nowadays we only see her about once a month because she is terribly busy with school and work among other things.

[Nonameanymore]

It must be hard being a step-mom and I think I understand how hard your position is (think because I 'almost' became a step-mom a few years back).
At least you care for her, if her mom doesn't. I used to think that people with step-families are lucky because they have two moms and two dads! Or that if you missed your chance to have a mom and dad with your FOO, being a kid of a step-family, you get your second chance!

My dad dated a woman for ages (NM would not give him the divorce) who died of uterine cancer and she was really nice to me but she never got the chance to see me a lot - NM had forbidden me to see my father and only saw him 3 times in my life.

Another thing that is crucial I think is the fact that maybe your step-daughter thinks that nobody would believe her that she is having a tough time (people did not believe me for years either). Maybe create a 'safe' conversation environment for her, protecting yourself in a way that your husband's ex will not be able to accuse you of interfering.

Don't know how useful any of the above is...!

[Lucky]

Thank you very much Persephone what you say is useful yes. I find it like walking on a minefield talking with my stepdaughter about her mother. You did open my eyes about people not believing her, maybe she is even afraid that we might tell the negative things she told us about her mother to other people. Because indeed there are other people she definitely might not want them to hear about what she told us in the past. Because these people already are quite negative about her mother and it would give them something against her or because there are people who believe her mother is a very nice woman.
Also about the blackmailing, the mother is expecting to get quite a lot of money any time soon and maybe she promised her daughter a big share. Good thinking Persephone!!

[Nonameanymore]

Really glad to have helped! I feel really guilty because I haven't been of any help to anyone here (have been wallowing in self-pity for ages!)

 

[KatG]

Hi Lucky,
Your DH's ex seems a little like my DH's ex, except they have two boys (18/23).

She's so good at manipulation and convincing the boys how they have to take care of her, especially when she's being awful and abusive.   She regularly pulls out these types of sick games, so  we're not surprised anymore, and she's convinced them that everything's all DH's or someone else's fault, so she accepts no blame, thereby continuing her stronghold.  And yeah, she knows how to work them over, and keep them away from DH, etc.
She's really good at the charm thing, has a lot of people fooled.  It really gets to me that the boys have this sick relationship with her.  She's trained them to be co-dependent with her.  They don't see through it, they are stuck in the fog. 
Yeah, one day she'll be abusive, and the next she knows what to do and say to keep them attached to her.  But isn't this all N's?
They are so destructive and selfish.
Good luck,
KatG

[Lucky]

Hi KatG,

Although I have seen quite some dysfunctional behaviour during my life what is going on now every time manages to boggle my mind. Every time it shows I have not seen it all by a long run. Every time I think I understand and can predict things it all takes a funny turn. I just don't know what to make of things anymore so I'd better give up trying.

[KatG]

(((Lucky)))

DH ex and a Nboss are such a destructive force in people's lives, it still does boggles my mind, but their behavior just doesn't surprise me.  it's all the same result/intention, just different tactics, whatever it takes for them.  Hope that's not me getting used to it.   I would be surprised if they actually gained some emotional intelligence.

I've seen some pretty manipulative things that they've accomplished, all the while fooling the masses (Bernie Madoff did).
Younger one has to make payments to her to use the car, and she'll take it away  for him for any reason, or  coming to see his dad, and he doesn't see through her, most don't, I didn't see through my nm until I was older, and my nm's not as good at the fooling as she is.

[Lucky]

Hi KatG,

Would you believe I almost regret now validating my stepdaughter's emotions when things were bad between her and her mom? Crazy.

The way these N's manage to fool and manipulate so many people is just incredible. No, I am afraid that I am still not used to this. Many times I start doubting myself.

What kind of payments does the younger one have to do for the car? Some kind of rent?

[bearwithme]

Lucky,

I'm just going to put this out there.  Your stepdaughter seems to be a parentified child by her NM.  I was-- and this is exactly the way I acted at her age.  I did the exact same thing after telling someone that my mother abused me.  I paraded around and bragged about how great my mom was and that she didn't have any problems, etc.

My NM brainwashed me to idolize her in a matter of a few days.  She fell apart and became emotionally unstable for me to even uphold the idea that she was abusing me.  The guilt and feeling sorry for her took precedence because she was so emotionally frail due to her "life circumstances" etc.  She turned all the tables and gave me good reasons why she did what she did to me.  She made me understand that she was the victim, not me.  She cajoled me to believe that she was a great mom and that if I complained about her that I was a bad daughter.  She literally fell apart before my eyes and that was enough for me to think that she was the victim, not me, and that she was emotionally frail because of my dad and what "he did" etc.

I never wanted to see my mom fall apart like that ever again so I was determined to put the message out there that she was a good mom and was perfectly fine, etc., the burden was on me.

I have more but don't know if this is something that relates to your stepdaughter or not.  But it seems like something is up with her NM and your stepdaughter has all too quickly changed her tune.  IMHO.

Bear

[Lucky]

Bear,

Yes, I agree that my stepdaughter changed her tune in a way I just can't comprehend. I mean I really wish for her to have a good relationship with both her parents but what I have witnessed these last seven, eight years it is just unbelievable. My husband and I both have our problems with anxiety and depression but we are not using it in any way to influence my husband's children. My husband works fulltime and has been suffering from quite severe insomnia for years now but he is not using it to guilt trip or manipulate his children in any way (not that it would work for him anyway). If my husband would have treated any of his children the was she has he would have been dead meat.

Thank you for telling me about your (terrible) experience.