To Share or Not to Share?

[bearwithme]

I previously posted this on Sealynx's thread "Awful Holiday Quotes dumping..." and was just wondering if any of you can "share" things with your N.  I thought I'd start a new thread regarding this subject because I think being able to "share" feelings, stories, or just whatever with someone else, is important. Like here, we can share just about anything and receive a civilized response.  But with my NM, I tend to fall into the same trap over and over again and try and share things, whether it's about a movie, a book or that I need to buy a new phone, her response sends me into outer space. 

I am human. And when I'm around people, I tend to communicate. Period.  If I spend hours with someone, i.e., a friend, relative, you bet that I'm going to speak to them on a personal level, I think this is normal.  No?  I have the natural tendency to want to bond with people.  I have a natural tendency to relate to them eventhough they are different. 

Anyway, here is my [previoius] post and the N trap I fell into last night:

My NM is here for a visit and though today isn't a holiday, NM has been saying the most bizarre crap.  You just can't share anything with an N.  Really.

So here's mine:  I cooked me and my NM a nice dinner tonight and sat down next to the crazy buffoon as she was yammering on about how she reads a lot. (uh, nooooo she doesn't, she only reads her Bible and whatever tabloid she thinks is juicy).  I asked her if she has read any good novels lately and her reply, No! I ONLY read the truth and I don't fill my head with someone else's fantasies."

I ignored the comment and went on to tell her that I read the best novel I have ever read (last year) and that my brother, without knowing I read it too, told me that he was enthralled with the best novel he had ever read (it was the same novel I read).  I was talking about the coincidence that me and bro both thought the same about the novel and I went on and on about how the novel is Fiction yet it was based on actual historical events, but the characters were fictional.  Well, NM's brain must have exploded with the information as she looked all bugeyed and confused and asked me, "Why did you read a false story that you think was real?"  I said, "No mom, the politics are factual and the history is factual as it takes place but the characters are made up to have lives within this particular era in this particular country, etc.

I went on to say how wonderful the book was and the author was brilliant, etc., well, again, her little pea-brain just couldn't handle it and she said, "Well Bear, someone else was forcing you to read their mind."  WTF???????

I wanted to beat myself silly.

Why am I frustrated with this?  After all this time + therapy + money + analyzing + support + talking + listening + setting boundaries + going LC + everything.  Why?

Bear

[SilverLining]

Hi Bear.  Your experience looks very familiar to me.  My father is big on reading, because it's about the only way he can relate to the human race.   He gets all excited about whatever he's read lately, and loves to do long monologues about it.  But let anybody else dare to share anything they might have read and the response is  instant dismissal.   He can always  find something negative to say about what others have read.  He's a master at very subtle dismissals and insults.  He'll say something along the lines of "It's amazing how some authors can make things APPEAR to be reasonable".   No one besides himself is qualified to judge the value of writing.  

Reading is just one aspect of a more general pattern.  It's nearly impossible to share an experience of any type without getting an instant dismissal, counterpoint, or a "one-up".   And if you ask him a question, you're likely to get some sarcastic reply.   Responding to others is not part of his repertoire.  

Thinking about it now, it all seems so obvious.  The guy has absolutely no credibility.  I don't know how I put up with this stuff for so many years.

[bearwithme]

Silver:  You are so right

They are so detached from anyone and anything.  I ends up being so awkward and I get so uncomfortable like ants are crawling all over my body....

Thanks for sharing yours.  Heh, get it "sharing."

Thank God for sharing people.

Bear

[swimmer]

Hi Bear... I totally understand what you're saying here.  I've found I can't share anything with my mother.  I too really like sharing life with people.   When I don't share anything with my mother, she says you never tell me anything.  I always know a big bomb will hit if my mom agrees or is quiet when share my thoughts and life..... Later she will use everything I said against me.  I don't even share personal stuff with her either, she just finds a way to needle me (my husband says). 

So.... I'd think what's the point in talking then?  This is a bit relieving but chilling.... But since there is no way to relate with her (now that I'm more clear about her tricks), I'm just a product of conception from her and my father.  I only feel a connection to her when I'm in a brainwashed state.... It's hard to let go.

I'm not sure if this makes sense. 

You seem to be a person who is open despite your mother,  which is so great.   

[Logy]

Bear,

Ditto!!!  Ditto!!!  Ditto!!!  I finally have learned that if I decide to share something with NM, I will NOT get a thoughtful, intelligent exchange of ideas.

About a year ago I thought that maybe I wasn't opening up enough to her and that is why I don't feel close to her.  Maybe if I told her that I yearned for someone to discuss "deep" thoughts with, she would rise to the occasion and we could become closer.  So I mentioned my thoughts in an email to enabling dad, since 1) I never seemed to be able to talk about things to her face to face, and 2) it had to go through dad because NM hates computers and I cannot communicate to her this way.  So dad gave it a shot, we discussed a few things via email, it was ok but not in depth.  He shared with NM the conversation and the topics I had mentioned.  Two nights later I got a call from NM.  She said "So, I saw your list of topics you are interested in.  This is what I think......blah, blah, blah.  Blah, blah, blah.  So, call me if you want to talk more." 

Huh???  This was a conversation???  This was sharing ideas, in depth conversation??? 

Sealed the deal for me.  This will never happen with her.

[Portia]

Well Bear, unlike my other half (who doesn't read story books because he likes facts), your NM sounds like she lives in fear/superiority/fear/etc etc. So she's a bible-basher eh? and has a taste for the tabloids...it kind of makes sense I guess. Small minded and 'righteous'; she can read about all the terrible things other folks do and feel every so proud of herself. Poor (((((Bear))))).

Sharing and reading though. Very sad. An adult 2-year-old, just over a year ago, asked if I'd read a really good novel they'd sent me. I had and it was enthralling (Audrey Niffenegger). And there was one of those very very rare moments. They enthused and got excited and we talked about "and the part where.." "yes! and wasn't it horrible when.." and, although it was like responding to an excited 2 year old,it was clear that...I don't know. It was clear that the person was enjoying it, truly. As a 2 year old would. That is a pretty sad memory. It's a very long time ago. And it is very sad for me.

[Lucky]

I hardly share anything with my mother because nine out of ten times I am made to regret it later on.

[cantors.counter]

Why am I frustrated with this?

I hear you. Sharing only happened when it was something the N liked, otherwise the N's reaction was the same you experienced. Whatever it was, if the N didn't find it interesting, it was completely without any redeeming quality and would garner derision.

Do you find that you're less likely/comfortable to want to share with other people because you've been trained that what you like isn't important?

[Sealynx]

Bear,
I think it is very human to share and want validation and feel closer to someone, especially if they mirror those feeling back to us. That said, I have learned that my NM does not like feelings of any kind and has nothing to share back. I don't share feelings with her or discuss anything with her that has emotional importance to me because I don't want to be hurt anymore. She will only pick a fight if I do. I don't even let her know what I'm doing because she will pick a fight over that too. Most of my relating to her is telling her lies. I might tell her what I'm doing but make the person I'm doing it with sound very important. She is less likely to attack if she has something to tell her friends about my "important" friends.

I can literally "feel" when she is digging for information. The other day I told her I was going to dinner with some of my friend's colleagues. I could tell she was in a foul mood and she immediately turned the statement around and said, "You are cooking for his friends??" I corrected her but the next words out of her mouth would have been that I shouldn't "waste" my money on my friends colleagues. She would then have said something like let him pay for it and it would have turned into an attack on my friend who she has chosen not to like for absolutely no reason. They are crazy and in my opinion don't deserve to hear what I really feel.

[Hopalong]

(((((((((((((Bear, Logy))))))))))))))))

Letting go of that yearning is such a sweet gift to yourself.
It's a long letting go but one day, there's a shift, and you realize you're not begging that turnip to be a rabbit any more.

I found over the years that my Nmother and I could relate well around things that simply had NOTHING to do with people. So, no discussion of family, friends, religion, politics, sexual mores, dating, neighbors, etc. etc. Although we could talk about education (as an abstraction).

My best memories of her are when we were DOING something together. When there was no activity or to distract her, she'd be off on the callous and clueless lecturing that turned my skull inside out. (Edited: I'd typed "turned my skill inside out" -- I guess it did that too!)

But when she baked bread, or taught me to sew, or we decided about flower beds, etc. -- that was safe. She was drawn to beauty and even just polishing silver together would bring out nice vibes. It was the difference between her hands being engaged (she was a fine seamstress) versus her mouth, which was unfortunately connected to her brain, which was vapid.

Physical touch was very very slow with Mom. As an adult, after some therapy, I gradually learned to touch her affectionately even knowing (after releasing the yearning) that she could not touch me in the same way back. It met my need to connect with my love for a mother, as long as I did not look for affection back. I realized I needed to be affectionate anyway, because that was expressing a part of me that I am grateful for. So, I'd give a little hug, or pat her hand, or especially as she got very old, rub small comforting circles on her back for a moment or two. No clutching or big production, but it got some love in the atmosphere.

And gave me a way to love her that I could live with. (Agreeing, obeying, and going along with her agenda being things I had long since had to forcefully abandon for my soul's sake. And that was like giving birth without anesthesia for a decade.)

So as Sealynx says, the mirroring matters. If you can release the yearning for HER to mirror you, and diligently set about finding people who do...then you can create whatever odd little rituals with her that work for YOU. Just don't fill the tank there because the fuel is an illusion. And it is probably not her fault.

It's a birth defect.

love,
Hops

[Sealynx]

Well said Hops.
Mine is much better with her hands as well.  But it seems you can help her mine do things only if she has decided to do it FIRST.

Through the years mine has sent us handmade cross stitched wall hangings, and afghans that don't match anything we own. This Christmas I remembered that my mother used to paint when she was younger and would always try to get me to paint her tacky stuff like magnolias and sappy flowers.  So I decided to get her a really nice boxed watercolor set and a book on painting flowers. In the note I said that my sis and I would like her to paint each of us a picture.

She called me with "that tone" in her voice and said it had been a long time since she painted, she was very busy and would not have time to paint for us our any time soon! I'll bet if we hadn't made our preferences known and we'd run into the same set while out shopping and it was HER idea...she would have sent us each a flower painting.  So if she decides to do something and send it to us that is an N feed for her. But if we want it, no N feed and we are imposing on her time!! Hmmm.

You are right. It is a birth defect. A mean birth defect!

[Logy]

Hops,

Wise advice.  Thank you for sharing.

Your words encouraged me to reflect on my activities with NM.  What could I explore with her?  I thought about the things I have tried in the past that failed.  Shopping, lunch together, including her in outings with my friends, time at the spa, cooking, geneology research, and on and on.  But then I searched, was there anything at all that seemed to be better than the rest???  One thing only.  Going to see a movie together.  No other family members along.  Just her and me.  We have done this maybe twice in our lives but is the only activity we have done where we both felt comfortable.  She was comfortable.  We were in the dark.  There was no one there she felt the need to impress, interact with.  It was a story, not real life.  We shared popcorn.  We were close but didn't have to touch.  She was relaxed.  And seemed grateful for the time together.

I understand now that I need to explore this avenue and maybe we can find a way to connect a few more times.

Love,
Logy

[Hopalong]

Definitely!
Public events where there's no talking...movies, plays, choral music concerts are especially terrific. Things that are GOOD and fully engaging.

Something where the experience is bigger than she is and she's drawn into it (or her inner child is).

Good luck!
(It also allows you to experience a little pleasure while in her company.)

Win-win.

hugs
Hops