I think I made a mistake

[Lupita]

I called him last night. I thought he would not answer. he answered imediately. He said he loves me. He said he is coming to visit to my house today. He wants to take me toa salsa free class tonight. I am afraid to go. His friends hate me. I do not dislike his friends but they do not like me beccause I supposedle took him away from them, these are women, not men.
He is coming to my house in the afternoon and the class is at 7 pm.

He said that he will never leave me. He said that the only way he would lieave me is if I cheat on him. I have no desire to see anybody else in the rest of my life.

But I am afraid because he brings up fear to me. Why does he cause me fear? I do not feel this with others. I fear that he is going toi punish me. To cause me shame. He caused me shame on Saturday.

I will tell him that if he does not stop the dancing close I will not be with him. I get very depressed because of him, even when we are happy together, i get depressed for different things he does.   I need to hear your thoughts. I cannot reswpond from work but I can read it. Please give me your thoughts.

[lighter]

Oh my, Lupita.

I really think you need an outside counselor, to sit down with you both, and sort this out.

Don't worry about how his friends feel, you have enough on your plate.

Worry about what's important..... how you and your bf are feeling.

If his friends are really friends, they'll want him to have what makes him happy, not what makes them happy.

Remember, keep your activities in place.

Keep walking.

Stay in Salsa classes if they bring you joy.

Take care of yourself, even if you're feeling like doing nothing.

Mo2

[CB123]

Lupita,

I think the biggest thing you need to remember is that your feelings tell you only how you are feeling.  They dont tell you whether he is right for you, whether you have good reason to be fearful, whether you should go back with him.  Pay close attention to your feelings--they are very important.  But they only tell you about YOU, not him.

Here's where you will be able to see more clearly about the truth of what is happening:  time.  Give yourself time--time with him, time without him.  Time enjoying activities with him, time enjoying activities without him.  Time at his apartment, time at yours.  Time with his daughter, his ex wife, his friends.  Maybe they dont like you, or maybe you think they dont.  But whatever is happening, dont avoid them.  You cant see how he interacts with them unless you are with them.  If you isolate your relationship from all his other relationships, you will never know him. 

Children of N's grow up learning how to please other people and paying little attention to what they want themselves.  You are what he wants.  His protective stance may be to take care of all the people outside of himself first.  That isnt right, but it is what it is.  You have to decide if you want to work through this issue with him.  It may be more than you want to take on--but do know that you BOTH have issues and they are playing against each other.

On the other hand, he may be an N.  In that case, there is nothing you can work out with him.  But there is absolutely no tattoo on him, anywhere, that will tell you that.  All you have on your side is time.  Dont move forward in the relationship until you have seen what you need to see at the place you are now.  Dont spend every night at his apartment if you are not sure of his integrity. 

If you decide to try again with this relationship, I think it would be very good to start over.  Decide right now that you will pursue the other things that you have been abandoning, like your piano class.  Like your walks every day.  If he doesnt enjoy something that you enjoy, you dont have to exclude him (he may want to learn to enjoy them too), but dont abandon them all together.  I do think that spending every night in a home that is not your own space makes it very hard to have your own inner life. 

By the same token, if he wants to do things that you dont want to do, let him do that without punishment.  In my opinion, you two may have moved too fast and not given yourselves the opportunity to choose activities (or unchoose them) based on what each of you personally wants.  If he wants to take tango classes, and you are really uncomfortable with them, let him choose to take them without you.  He may decide that he would rather be with you.  But let him decide that. 

In the first few months of a relationship, there are hormones and endorphins running rampant that make everything feel like a drug high!  You go up, you come down.  You go through withdrawal, you crave the drug.  Its normal, but it isnt what it will always be.  Dont make any major decisions under the influence.  Just enjoy the ride and give it time.

Love you Lupe

CB

[Ami]

Dear Lupita
 You have the PAST and the PRESENT together in one big soup. You have your Mothers abuse, his dancing cheek to cheek, your fear of abandonment, your need for your Mother 's love--all of it---enmeshed within yourself
 In a word----access your gut, try to trust it, try to force yourself to be real about your deepest feelings with him.
 My guess is that he is decent.
 Normal??? Maybe not, but WHAT would we do with a normal guy anyway?????LOL

[Lupita]

Tell me if I did something wrong.
I wrote him this e mail. HE WAS going to come to my house and get together again. After reading this e mail he refused. Am I being unreasonble?


Please, dont stop coming to see me after reading. This has to be discussed. It is better written.That way we do not fight. You think about it and talk later.
 
We need not to fight fire with fire. We need to stop threatening each other. That has to stop. I almost had to be taken to the emergency room. Chest pains. They went away thank God. We need to stop. I felt provoked. I felt provoked. Olga, First dancing close with you, then taking you to dacne again leaving me sitting. On top of it,
Olga threatened me with a restraining order. I have never had a probelm with anybody until now. never before. I have had a peaceful life all my life. My life could be ruined totally.
Silvia told me that all your friends are mad at me. How can I go around with you  with the fear I have now?
This is the second time that Olga interferes and causes a huge problem between you and me.
We need to have peace. I cannot go dancing every day. It is toxic.
I deeply regret for my behavior, I feel very embarrazed, but that does not take away that you were emotionally abusive to me.
 
I was already upset, I begged you to take me home and you did not want to. You threatened me with dancing with the young mercedes, you did, I begged you to take me home, you threatened me to dance with Iara, It was too much pressure, after Olga had dance close to you. On top you leave me alone to go dance with Olga again. Olga again. how can she dance close to you when I was already talekd to her one hour on the phone and she promised that she will never do it again. She promised me. She wook us up from our nap just to ask me if you were going to be there.
 
I was doubly betrayed. You have to stop provoking me. If you cannot stop dancing close, i cannot be your lover. It is destroying me. I look ten years older than when i started with you. I am suffering.
 
I still have chest pain. you might have to take me to the emergency room.
In my entire life, I have never hurt anybody. Never damaged anybody. They need me in my church, i have a decent job. Olga was exagerating. And she does not want me around. How can I go dancing with you if she is around?
My pastor said that tango is sinful. I do not agree with that, but tango has cuased me so much pain.
I do not want to be around Olga. I feel bad around her. She talks to you as if she was a little child. She is probably close to your age. Olag makes me feel very humilliated.
 
Please, you have to stop that phylosophy of getting me on my toes, it could destroy my life. I have worked so hard all my life. I have a brilliant future if I enter the PhD. You have to help me, not sink me.
 
Please, do not stop coming at 4 because of this e mail. i had to get it off my chest.
 
Nick and teresa are left alone, the german and margy are left alone. I want to be a couple that is left alone.
 
Do you think we can have that?
 
Again, please forgive me for my behavior. I need not to react to external stimulus. But the external stimulus needs to stop too.
 
I regret so much, I feel so ashamed. if my son knew, I would cause him shame. I am terribly sorry.
 
Love you with all my heart
.e him this e ma he was going to come to my house today and get together again. After this e mail he refused.
Am I being unreasonble ?

[Lupita]

he answered this,
I don't know what you are saying in this long e-mail (talking about the
same thing over and over and over again) the same thing. You need therapy
from a licensed therapist, not your pastor. You are your worst enemy and
have always been your worst enemy, since I met you. It is not Mercedes
nor Olga's fault. Face the truth, it is you (10,000 French men can't be
wrong). I can not come to see you at 4:00 to talk about the same thing
over again, I won't. You need to see a Therapist, see a Therapist first
and then I will get together with you, to see if there are any changes in
your behavior. Forget God, help your self first, then Thank God after you
helped your self. I can no longer help you, I have tried for the past 5
months to no avail, I am not going to go thru this again, to end up the
same way, sorry, help yourself first.

DON'T CALL OR E-MAIL AGAIN, UNTIL YOU CAN BE POSITIVE.

Silvia told me that all your friends are mad at me. How can I go around with you  with the fear I have now?
This is the second time that Olga interferes and causes a huge problem between you and me.
We need to have peace. I cannot go dancing every day. It is toxic.
I deeply regret for my behavior, I feel very embarrazed, but that does not take away that you were emotionally abusive to me.
 
IF THIS IS HOW YOU FEEL, THEN GET THE COURAGE UP TO NOT SEE ME AGAIN, AND CALL IT QUITS
 
No, I will not come, because I don't want to talk about the same thing over, and over, and over again. No More, Sorry.

[Lupita]

He does not want to recognize his part, his contribution to the problem, he puts it all on me. He does not care. He does not want to sacrifice anything, he does not want to meet in the middle. What am I doing wrong?

Maybe, it is roght, either he is an N or we just dont match. He is not willing to do anything.

[Lupita]

Why he does not want to cooperate? Why he cares more for his friends? If I propose something he does not care. If his friends (women) propose something he wants to do it right away. Even if I have better ideas.

I wanted to go to a milonga for valentines day and he said no. Another woman asked him if he was going to go and he siad yes. My ideas are not important.

[Lupita]

please help me. did he get mad because he cared more for his friends? Becasue he does not like to hear that he has a contribution to the problem?  what made him so mad?

[Hopalong]

Sorry, Lup, I wrote you a "big love, and YOU ARE SAFE" message but it didn't post.
I don't know why. I'm sorry you are suffering and panicking. Panic plus sadness is so much worse than simple sadness alone. It's harder to accept and release normal sadness when fear is mixed in.

What I think is that he is overwhelmed with being handed so much responsibility for helping you feel safe. He knows it's too big for him and he's exhausted and he just won't do it any more.

I do not know whether he intentionally hurts you by interacting or dancing with other women. I can't tell. I am not sure how the dance is going, because it's obviously a many-layered dance of relationship...to you, with himself, to womanhood, to the music and the night and being alive. This is tango, right?

He might be rebelling because he feels smothered, or he might be unable to be happy unless he is welcome to experience that flirtatious side of himself that the dancing celebrates. This may be his idea of being a happy man, to act out this feeling of sexy manliness on a dance floor, but only be intimate with one woman.

And it may not be about whether he is good or bad or who is wrong or right, but just that the whole atmosphere of a relationship that is built around dancing and choosing or rejecting partners, and the whole sensual undertone of dance classes...is just not bearable for you.

If that's true, it's okay. You get to choose not to participate in this.

It has become a complete struggle for control. You cannot feel safe by controlling him. Even if you have all these little individual victories when he does NOT dance with someone else, there's an eternal hypervigilance about when he WILL, or when some (any) other female presses in.

You don't want to be doing that for the rest of your life.

Maybe you need to accept his suggestion to see a therapist. You could invite him to go with you but go on your own anyway.

I think it would be a good thing to do.

I think he feels overwhelmed by your need, but that does not mean you are bad for feeling what you feel. It may mean that you can not fix your own emotional needs in a relationship, but must work on healing yourself first.

You'll dance again. But right now, it's no longer a joy.

much love,
Hops

[Izzy_*now*]

I agree with you Lupita, that you made a mistake.

To write to him and complain about his friends, apparently wanting him all for yourself, I wonder if a Co-dependency Group (CODA) might help, and perhaps study up on Boundaries, yours and his. Can you see that you are crossing his boundaries?

I gather that you have had an intimate (as in outright sex) relationship with him, and now feel that the two of you are 'ONE'. That is not so!

You are 'begging' to him. You are looking for pity with your pains!  You are telling him he has to help you. Does he really?

You tell him you are embarrassed and you apologize, but then you go back to say it all over again....what HE did wrong!

Then you apologize again!

Have you heard the expression, "Don't apologize! Don't explain!'? I learned a lot from that--yet there are times I have apolized, but I never make an excuse for myself now.

I am sorry that this is not what you might want to hear, but that is how I see this.

I do not at all want to hurt you. Please tell me if you think any of this fits your despair.

I am sorry that you are in despair, but only one person can fix you and that is you--but with some guidance, so you can change your behaviour.

Love
Izzy

[Lupita]

So, none of you see the betreyal of him dancing with Olga close, then dancing again with her when I am sitting when I already told him that I am upset because he danced close with her. So, you do not see how sad I feel when I see the other couples who even are better dancers but they do not have a bunch of women surrounding them and trying to get attention from the male in the couple.

So, none of you see that he wants the cake and eat it too. He wants to have a love and hug women too. And I have to act loving after I saw him huggin other women in the dance.

I asked him in my e mail if he cannot stop dancing close I cannot be with him. He just say that I am sick. He never said, I wonr do it again.

None of you can see that he is not willing to give up the sensual part of the dance. I do not mind the dance. I am cool with it as long as he does not dance close. But he likes to hug the women. That upsets me. The way he looks at them, the way he treats them with so much tenderness, it makes them crazy. These women do not dance with him because of his dancing abilities. They dance with him because of what he makes them feel.

That is what I am against up.

[Lupita]

I guess that I have to walk away and accept. I should not call him. He means "positve" 

"positive"=you can dance sexual with other women, i will watch and feel wonderful full of love for you.

Positive= I will not complain of anything you do.

Positive= I will be cool if you choose to ignore me to dance with other women.

[Izzy_*now*]

When you are comfortable with yourself, and the man you are with, there will be no need to explain how you are being positive. It will show in your actions without a second thought.

[Logy]

Lupita,
I dated someone for five years, who I was totally in love with.  He also was very much in love with me.  I know we would still be together; however, he died of cancer.  The reason I am bringing this up is that he was a hair stylist.  He then became a sales representative for an internationally known hair care company.  He traveled the world.  And his business world was filled with women.  He had many, many women friends.  And he loved them.  He hugged them.  He called them.  He cut their hair.  And they loved him (after all, he radiated happiness and had a great sense of humor).  I saw him kiss some of his women friends (non-passionate kisses).  But at the end of the day, I was the one he came home with (and had passionate kisses with).

I had one moment where I felt these women might take him away.  I mentioned it to him and he reassured me.  I trusted him and what he told me and was then able to accept that they can have one kind of relationship with him and I can have another.  

Trust is hard for survivors of N's to learn.  We have been disappointed so many times.  When I decided that I would trust, trust that he was genuine, trust that I could allow someone their relationships with others and still be important to that person, I felt a peace I can't describe.  I gave up the control I felt I had to have over another to prove my worthiness as a human.  (Remnants of how I was trained by NM.)

By the way, I have used this lesson to improve my relationship with my NM.

I wish you peace with this relationship, whichever way it goes.
Logy