Author Topic: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?  (Read 2171 times)

sunblue

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Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« on: April 19, 2010, 12:07:11 PM »
Awhile back, when I was seeing a therapist (for severe depression and N family issues), the doc used to talk extensively about self-fulfilling prophecies.  He was inferring that because I expected my family or others to act a certain way, they would…or how if I talked about my depression, I would be.

At the time, I didn’t agree…not sure I do now….but an N family situation occurred this weekend that made me wonder what I do wrong to consistently get the treatment I do.

This weekend was my only niece’s Confirmation ceremony.  This is a niece who I have gone above and beyond for her entire life.  Every week until she was old enough not to need a babysitter, I spent hours helping her with homework; I taught her life lessons about giving and sharing and thinking of others; I took her on many special trips and adventures; I bought her all kinds of surprises; I took her to the doctor and her tutor and dance classes.  I shared with her the lessons I taught during the religious education classes I taught.  In short, I’ve always been there for her.

Fast forward to this weekend’s ceremony in which students are required to select a “sponsor”….someone who has been there for them and will continue to guide them through their faithful life.

I’m sure you can see where this is going.  My niece selected a family friend (a mother of two with a girl close to her age) rather than me to be her sponsor.  I felt like she had taken a knife to my back.  I cried throughout the entire ceremony.  I tried my best to control my feelings but I could not…

My brother and his family continue to take advantage of me….to never think of me or my feelings…I have kept my distance from my brother as of late..and the sad thing is he has no idea why..he doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong.

The same thing happens to me at work.  I work overtime consistently with limited resources; my boss absolutely takes advantage.

So is it a self-fulfilling prophecy?  I thought I was doing all the right things for my niece…I did everything I knew to be a good aunt and a good friend….but then this is how I am treated?  Why?  What is it all these other people that is so much better than what I am?  I honestly don’t get it.  I was so upset by it I couldn’t go to work today.  I’m wondering if people see “unworthy” tattooed on my forehead and so think nothing of hurting me.

Anyone find themselves in similar circumstances?

Sunblue

Lucky

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 01:19:47 PM »
My experience over the years is that at times being assertive and demand some attention and thankfullness and not being taken from granted really pays off. I am also often the person in the background helping everybody out but often one does not get noticed that way. We are shy and expect to get some appreciation but it is not coming, very frustrating.

Hopalong

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 02:29:37 PM »
I think maybe it is, Sunblue. I do think you prophesy pain, disappointment and eternal victimhood for yourself. (I don't think you should feel guilty about it, though. But if you came to agree with this, if I'm correct--and I won't swear I am though today I'm too wonky in my own head to write this other than rather bluntly--I believe your life would begin to change.)

I may be wrong but since you've invited opinions I will give mine (and I'm irritable with myself, tired, and fighting a ghastly procrastination battle at the moment--please forgive that and sort of drain that out of my tone if you can. I do want to help you).

I think adolescents often make choices that are about their transient sense of social identity or pleasing friends. They have completely different inner lives and motives than one might think they "should".
And, they often seem amazingly incapable of viewing adults as people who can have hurt feelings, or who exist for any other purpose than to orbit them.

Your niece's may be a natural and temporary form of narcissism...it's an emotionally adolescent state. Hopefully in the future she'll be able to express gratitude to you. Or perhaps if she senses how much you need or want her to be grateful, that may have made her feel uncomfortably beholden so she didn't want to publicly thank you. And may never. So perhaps, "hopefully" is an unwise suggestion. Probably much much healthier NOT to hope, in that sense, for her approval or recognition. Just decide for YOURSELF that you've been a very good aunt, and release that gift to the universe.

Ultimately, you might feel happier if you help people only when it makes you feel good about yourself and by yourself, regardless of others' gratitude. It's the old "my family are turnips but I want them to be rabbits so I will continue digging up turnips" kind of thing. When pure altruism won't satisfy (you're human too!) help people who DO seem to appreciate it. That would likely be found outside your family, from what you've always posted about them. Is there something volunteer that you could feel excited about? Maybe not something religious that one does for saintly reasons, but something that meets a serious and practical need?

I think what I hear in your posts is that you are focused outside yourself, and wanting to do things that will make people divine or do or give you the love you are fantasizing about, and then when they do (which never happens), you will be able to feel good about yourself.

The only way to feel good about yourself, imnho, will be to love yourself (this is made up of real thoughts and real actions, it's not an abstraction), learn basic assertiveness (there are workshops) so you can say No (boss, brother, niece, anyone you need to say No to) so you begin to undo your habit of  collaborating in creating a persistent illustration (to yourself) of yourself as a victim.

It does not matter if you have done this for a very long time. For a long time, it worked for you. But if it ceases to work, and you are motivated, you can do something very new for yourself for the rest of your life.

I don't think you can do it alone. I couldn't, anyway. Therapy and group work and community of my own outside the crushing marriage and family relationships were the things that gave me eventually enough hope and courage to love myself. (Took me a lot of work and time to seek out and build those things, they didn't appear on a tray. I had to intentionally expose myself and give myself and extend myself ad risk myself. And some didn't work out and I got hurt and learned and tried again. It's been a long process and I think that's now completely okay with me. I have gotten so I'm less crushed, or even when hurt--I of course still can be--I recover my self esteem faster than I used to. I used to be so devastated by every hurt that I was paralysed. I think that's why I always respond to you. I recognize that pain.)

You talk repeatedly of people taking advantage of you. They cannot unless you give them permission, either overtly or passively. That's where I think the prophecy happens.

How about a new prophecy? YOU WILL BE HAPPIER once you take responsibility for your healing and wholeness and decide to create your own happiness, not dependent on others' changing, suddenly "valuing you". It is very hard work and you can't skip the painful stretches of healing. But if you will do it, you will be happier. I would swear that on my life, Sunblue. When the notion that you can value and be pleased with and respect and protect yourself, or that it can become a baseline you return to consistently even after the disappointments of life...when that notion becomes real, it is lifechanging. In the best way.

I think we are supposed to do this. Self-loathing and self-pity (I am expert at this) are not our natural states. And we can overlay those mental grooves and thought habits with new, life-appreciating ones.

Stop being Cinderella. But stage your own balls.

And to start, I'd like to suggest that you praise and value and respect and love and feel proud of yourself for the fact that after all your terrible struggles about it, and your despair, and the times when you felt it would never ever happen, you struggled and got and kept a job. This is NOT a small thing you accomplished. It was very hard for you. I respect you tremendously for doing that. It was so hard.

Now, with pressure from boss...perhaps this job is STILL a great accomplishment, or it's a place where you can learn and experiment with healthy assertiveness. So you are not working so much overtime. You really can learn all sorts of good strategies for remaining valuable to your employer while still learning to create new boundaries there, and removing the Cinderella name-plaque from your desk.

There are so many books, articles, teachers, processes, groups, healing work opportunities, that can help you feel such warmth and pleasure and gratitude for being yourself. That's what I prophesy for you. I would love to have the gift.

But it only matters whether you do. Whether you have faith.
Or will search for it.

with love to you,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sunblue

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 07:02:42 PM »
Hops and Lucky:

Thank you so much for weighing in on my post.  It was kind of you to take the time to respond and offer me your thoughtful insights.

Hops:

Thank you for sharing with me your thoughts, advice and personal experiences.  You made some very salient points.  I could not go to work today…my sadness paralyzed me today as occasionally it does.  I’ve spent most of the day thinking about this and what you wrote as well.

One thing I wanted to express.  I am not one of those “tit for tat” people.  I don’t do things for others expecting something in return.  All the things I did for my niece I did out of genuine love and affection.  I wanted to teach her things, show her a nice time, help her explore life.  So my deep sadness over her decision wasn’t about not receiving gratitude or a response in kind.  Instead, what I realize is that it is more about concepts that I always struggle with…..sense of value, respect and justice. 

What my niece’s decision showed me was that she did not value and respect me.  The injustice for me was that I did respect and value she and my brother and family members…and that my actions and behavior proved that out.  However, it was not reciprocated….despite all my best efforts.  To me that’s injustice was reinforced by the fact that they did value and respect others…who did not do anything to earn it.  They showered it on others but chose to keep it from me.  There’s nothing I can do to change that, I know.

At first I didn’t get your reference to Cinderella.  I thought to myself, I’m for sure no princess!  I never got to wear the glass slipper or have a dance with the Prince…but then I realized you meant the “pre-Ball” Cinderella…the one who did all the work but was beaten down by her step-sisters.  That is true.

My inclination has always been to give to others…both family and others….I have volunteered for various causes and I know that effort was needed.  In the case of my family only, it is hurtful and humiliating when they treat me as they have this weekend….but there’s nothing I can do to change their behavior.  It is their choice.

Sadly, I think I have few options but to go NC or at least very limited contact with my brother and his family.  Once they treat you as they did me, you can’t pretend they didn’t.  And I’m not one to tolerate a superficial relationship very well.  As a daughter of an N mom and co-D dad, I’ve had enough superficial to fill 10 lifetimes.

It is all just an empty feeling….but I think by not tolerating it anymore…by essentially stating that their treatment of me was and is not acceptable, I’m standing up for myself in a small way…even when no one else will.

As for my job…..it is like being trapped in a cage.  They love my work because I am a workhorse….While they made decisions to cut positions and required me to assume those, others went merrily on their way working their usual 40 hours a week.  So, I am on the search again…because 90-100 hour weeks are just not possible anymore.

I think I will start studying the topics you suggested…to see how I can do a better job of setting boundaries..and more importantly, of accepting the consequences when I do.  That’s always the hard part for me .

What a life, heh?  Thanks again for sharing your struggles with me Hops.  Of everyone here, I feel I identify with your experiences…although surely you are much, much further along in your journey to happiness.  Thanks for your patience and empathy.

Sunblue

Logy

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 08:24:08 PM »
Sunblue,
So painful!  I'm sorry for the treatment you received from your neice.  I do agree with Hops on everything she mentioned about adolescents.  Your neice will grow up and one day realize what her amazing aunt did for her. 

Setting boundaries and making others aware that I deserve respect and consideration is something I had to learn.  And it took a long time.  My first "enlightenment" came when I was in the middle of divorce, taking care of my 3 year old daughter, and working non-stop.  Luckily, I was seeing a therapist that told me I don't owe my employer much other than to do a good job and be there 40 hours a week.    That was SUCH a revelation for me.  After all, I was trained to be everything and all to everyone!  So I pulled back and stated I was overwhelmed and............nothing bad happened to me.  Nobody respected me less.

Went through another episode like this with another company, though not quite as intense, and started to respect myself and set my boundaries with this group.  Once again, nothing bad happened.  I still work for the company and am respected.

Fast forward.  My daughter is now 23 and living with me after having graduated from college.  She has a job and is making good money.  I started to feel neglected and taken advantage of by her.  Take care of her dog, make her dinner, be available for her, clean the house (even though she lives here too).  I'd had it one night and said that I take her needs into account when I make decisions and I expected to receive the same treatment.  The next day she apologized and things went well for about 3 months.  However, we are almost back to the same state and I think I need to reassert myself.

So what I have found is that just because you stick up for yourself once, that doesn't make it happen forever.  It's a constant vigilance on my part to evaluate where I am with others treatment of me and make sure I stand up for myself.  We are so used to taking care of others and being responsible for them that it is easy to fall back into those patterns.

But I have learned that I can take care of others and then pull back and take care of myself.  I get better with each situation.  BUT...still have a ways to go.

Logy

Overcomer

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2010, 12:04:28 PM »
I wouldn't read too much into it.  People make mistakes.  Like when I was getting married the first time I chose many people who were friends THEN.  I neglected some family members and friends I had grown up with.  I no longer know any of those people I chose and feel guilty about not making the sensible choices.  Now the advise I give to everyone is.....choose the people you have known the longest....like family.
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

sunblue

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2010, 03:03:32 PM »
Thanks Overcomer and CB and all....

Just curious Overcomer...were any of the family and friends you overlooked in favor of others so hurt at the time that it damaged your relationships?  Did you lose any because of it?

I can't help but take what occurred to me very personally and not sure if I'm capable of turning the other cheek on this one...I've done it so often before.

Wondering

Sunblue

SilverLining

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2010, 12:36:02 PM »
Thanks Overcomer and CB and all....


I can't help but take what occurred to me very personally and not sure if I'm capable of turning the other cheek on this one...I've done it so often before.


Hi Sun.  I'm a believer in the "medium chill" approach.  You don't have to make outright declarations of no contact.  You don't try to send a message or teach them a lesson they aren't going to be capable of understanding.  All you do is consciously start withdrawing your energies from relationships that don't provide you with the kind of reciprocity you deserve.  This can go for both family relationships and work relationships.  To start with, you might just decide not to go out of your way to do nice things for others, and see what happens.  Maybe they will just disappear, which tells you what the relationship was all about.  You are better off without them.   Maybe they see what's going on and quit taking advantage.  Again you will be better off.  

I suspect those of us from N influenced backgrounds get used to giving a lot more than we get in return.  Then after years of giving, giving, giving, when the opportunity for them to give back just a little comes along, we get slapped in the face.   What may seem a superficial event to outsiders becomes the "straw that breaks the camels back".  It's been that way for me with the FOO and my work situations.   I put up with my parents (my father's especially) self absorbed behaviors year after year, then finally one little comment becomes the last straw and sends me emotionally reeling for months.   I gave and gave at jobs, only to get passed over for promotions I obviously had earned, which devastated me.  The work situation becomes a repetition of the family process.  

If you start withdrawing your energy from these futile situations, you may reach a place where what you get back is about equal to what you put in.   I've been working on expecting no more out of others than they are able to give.  The relationships may end up being "superficial", but they are a lot more pleasant than what I have endured in the past.  And I may have the energy left to give to others who are actually able to give something back in return.  
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 12:57:09 PM by SilverLining »

sunblue

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2010, 10:33:50 PM »
Hi SilverLining:

I read your advice more than once and it does make sense to me. Pulling back and not initiating contact or doing for these family members who don't reciprocate is damaging. Actually about a year and a half ago, I started doing this with my brother and niece just to see what would happen if I stopped initiating everything.  My niece was at the age when she no longer needed a babysitter several times a week...and lo and behold...when I stopped initiating, so too did contact with them stop....except for special occasion days when my brother felt it important for my niece's sake to have that "hallmark moment," with immediate and extended family surrounding her.  So I think your approach is a good one..even those I know what the result will be...but I think facing reality, while really painful, is the only way to go.

I think setting boundaries is something I definitely need to work on.  I'm in the same boat with an N boss and an entire organization which takes advantage.  People say you always have a choice....but when the choice is "continue to go along or lose your job", it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of choice when there are so few job opportunities out there.

I think we children of Ns do really give more.  It's in our nature to always think of others first...and perhaps in a backhanded way, to get some attention for ourselves which we've never gotten from our ns.  .....not in a conscious or negative way....just in a normal way that all humans need.

For now, I've decided not to do anything.  I haven't heard from my brother or niece since the incident  and doubt I will.  I'm trying to accept the way things are.

Thanks you so much for hearing and responding.

sunblue

SilverLining

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2010, 12:20:13 PM »



I think setting boundaries is something I definitely need to work on.  I'm in the same boat with an N boss and an entire organization which takes advantage.  People say you always have a choice....but when the choice is "continue to go along or lose your job", it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of choice when there are so few job opportunities out there.

I

Hey Sun.  Yeah work is a challenge since you can't go NC with a boss.  I sure have wanted to at times :)  I had the opportunity more than once to just walk out of bad jobs, but since I hadn't worked out what was really going on, I just  recreated the same situation again and again.  Work became a proxy for the FOO.   In exchange for a little bit of validation, I was willing to work myself to death.   Security was always a big issue.  Since I never felt emotionally secure in the FOO,  the feeling carried over to the work situation.     

Maybe within your current job you can start finding small ways to draw a line in the sand.  "Yes boss I agreed to work overtime this weekend, but I'm not giving up my lunch hour today."   Since you are the dependable workhorse, you might discover they really aren't going to risk losing you.   

 

sunblue

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2010, 06:01:51 PM »
Silver:

You hit the nail on the ahead.  We could be twins in that regard. (In exchange for a little bit of validation, I worked myself to death).  I've done that my whole career.

Yes, boundaries are definitely key.  I'm looking for a new job and I'm hoping the economy will improve a bit but we'll see.  I think in the interim, I have to stop caring so much....But good advice Silver.  Seems like we can't escape Ns wherever we go :)

Sun

Hopalong

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2010, 10:39:07 PM »
Sun, you are just sounding so SMART.

You really are thinking new thoughts these days.

I am soooooo impressed.
And excited for you.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Ales2

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Re: Is it really a matter of self-fulfilling prophecy?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2010, 02:34:54 AM »
with assertiveness, i am learning that the problem is not with asking for what i want or telling someone what i need from them, but dealing with the consequences when they say NO or try to manipulate me with underhanded tactics in return. i'm learning to stand firm (i also learn about reasonable expectations, so there is little reason for them to say no) and finding ways to answer to their objections, or not, depending on when i am drawing a line with them. for me this is the hard part. its also harder to be generous with time and resources, but as i am learning, i do mysellf in the long run when i say no.

also, i've just learned NO means negativity overload...

all the best to you...