Author Topic: AvPD vs. NPD  (Read 2070 times)

English

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AvPD vs. NPD
« on: May 23, 2010, 06:39:54 AM »
I don’t know where I belong. I have an NM and a schizoid F. Nm is a recovering alcoholic too.  I have a VERY bad memory.  Even of things that happened last week.  It’s like I trained myself to forget because my whole life is painful.  I also have diagnosed myself with avoidant PD with some dependent and passive-aggressive tendencies.  My life is one long anxiety.  What I do remember of my childhood are bad memories.  I cant’ remember a single good memory from before my son was born 25 years ago.  I don’t remember much about his growing up, but what I do remember makes me smile inside and out.  Anything to do with my son is good feelings.  Those are my only good feelings.  I know that when I saw a T for 10 years in the late 80’s-early 90’s  there would be things he wanted to talk about, but I would curl up in a ball and not be ABLE to respond to him in any way.  I could hear and understand everything he was saying, but I could NOT move or respond.  After a little while I would slowly come out of it.  These were mostly memories about F. 

Is there some sort of dissociating going on because I have no memories?  It’s really embarrassing when people have to remind me of something that happened and I can’t recall it at all.  But other people including NM and DH have excellent memories of all kinds of little things from their past.  I wish I had happy memories: but two sustain me-breast-feeding my son and reading to him in bed before sleep.  It really does bug me, my lack of memories.  I can feel that I am blocking a lot of my childhood, but it’s like I grew up learning how not to remember. So to this day I have memory probs.

So I don’t know if I belong in this group or in a group for people with avPD.  I have problems from both situations, but people in this group do not seem to have the extreme anxiety I have, but the avPD  group doesn’t understand about narcissism.  I realize the lack of anxiety of the posters on voicelessness is just my impression.  Maybe many of you do have this problem with anxiety.  I have such LOW self-esteem and self-confidence that I rarely post to this group.  I don’t think I have anything to offer.  But I WANT to offer.  I just don’t feel capable of giving good advice. 

Hopalong

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Re: AvPD vs. NPD
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2010, 08:19:12 AM »
You don't have to offer advice to be valued here, ((((((((((English)))))))))).

Just sharing your own story, gaps and all, is a gift to everyone else who reads VESMB.
Every voice here makes this a better place, imo, more the better. It goes through lively cycles and quiet cycles....

I don't know how memory works in detail, but I think forgetting is often like the mind "splinting" an injury so it can heal.
I wonder what it would feel like if you told yourself, it's all right if I don't remember something?

Meaning, if you said to yourself (often and seriously love): I have permission to be exactly who I am.
I have worth, dignity and value exactly as I am.


Then working on memory issues, if you want to, would not be in the context of "I SHOULD have memories (or I'm a failure or wrong or "bad") but instead "I'd LIKE to have more memories, so I'll see if I can figure out how to encourage them."

Maybe talking to yourself with those self-love statements would reduce your anxiety about memory?

hugs
Hops
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sKePTiKal

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Re: AvPD vs. NPD
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2010, 08:26:10 AM »
Giving good advice is not a prerequisite for posting! (Thankfully!!)  :D   I know I've been 100% wrong, sometimes.

And yes, several of us deal with anxiety - mine was so intense at one point I had a panic attack. I think after awhile, you'll notice that there are some symptoms that cross lines of "diagnosis explanation"... a symptom/affliction all by itself doesn't necessarily mean you absolutely "fit" into some predetermined label. On the other hand, I know first-hand how important it is to have those big, non-verbalized questions about ourselves answered - I really didn't care what it was, as long as I could finally KNOW what had happened to me, why I was the way I am.

Memory blanks... well, that by itself kind of makes one nervous, doesn't it? Who knows what lurks in those blank spaces? And memories are so elusive... the harder you try to remember, the more the memory seems to slip away. I found I had to learn to relax - intentionally - before I could start approaching those memories and "bring something back" to work with. Like when you get "stuck" for a word - you know what it is - but it just won't pop up in your mind. My latest one of those was "Esther Williams". I was trying to describe my new bathing suit, and it just kept eluding me; finally I asked my daughter and she knew right away. What a relief!  :)

Seriously, I know how troubling it can be to not remember. I have the ability to remember all kinds of sensory info in conjunction with events - almost a photgraphic memory. Yet there was a distinct place in my chronology of a set of events where the memory screen just went blank; it picked up later on - and again, I could fill in a lot of background details. Something you have to ask yourself, is just how important is it to you, to remember? What do you think remembering will gain you? And if you decide to pursue that, I'd advise you to find yourself a gentle, trusted guide - someone to be with you and help you process the bits & pieces that might come back to you, slowly or in a flooding torrent. It's quite frightening to do this all alone; my actual "remembering" was solo - and then I'd report and discuss with my T. There were times I overwhelmed her, I think. Also, the brain has a tendency to "fill in the gaps" - to leap to conclusions that may/may not be accurate. It's easy to build a narrative memory or stream of cause/effect/facts that is a total fairy tale from a meager set of facts. The talking heads on TV do that all the time! So those kinds of things need to be set in context with feelings, other memories, and tested & retested & assumptions checked repeatedly... and having a partner or guide, in the form of T is, to my way of thinking, the safest way to do this.

For me, this became an all-engrossing, obsessive crusade. It took years. Fortunately, I was able to devote that kind of time to that "project". Not everyone can. And in the end, there are still places where the screen is blank and "memories" that I'm still not sure about; not sure they're 100% true the way I have them arranged in my mind. I can live with not knowing those bits, now... because I do have enough to explain to myself, why I am the way I am... and with the fact that many of my assumptions or things I thought I knew about myself were all wrong.

Maybe instead of starting with "giving good advice", you could simply start writing out what you do remember on the Members Stories page? That's kind of an online journal, and people are supposed to not respond there, though sometimes people just have to say something and it will go on the main discussion board. I found that the more I wrote - the more I remembered. There was something about the eye/hand connection that worked with my brain... and I still get a few details of things floating to the surface from time to time. For me, it flowed better with pencil & paper. It had to be pencil - but it could just as well have been crayon. Last count, I have 16 journals; a lot of revisiting the same events, same feelings, the same whining, wailing laments that I didn't want to inflict on other people - but on a regular basis, some "theme" in that stream of consciousness scribbling would start to emerge... and then I'd come here to describe it and ask for help understanding, or support when it knocked me for a loop, or sent me headfirst into despair. OH YES - and then there were the triumphant "I GOT IT"s, too.

In the process - I guess I've been posting here about 5 years - I've made a lot of friends. People who "know" what it's like to make this kind of journey, are willing to walk along side and keep you company; willing to offer encouragement, caring and support. In a way, I think the board was just as, if not MORE important to my healing - digging out the memories, processing that "new" information about myself, learning to adjust what I knew about myself... and learning to trust others and in the process, trust myself - the board was equally as important as the work I did in therapy. For me, it provided a safe place to learn the tools I needed to rise from the ashes, to be able to connect to people again, and to "go forth and conquer" (well, sort of....)!

So, lean on us. Tell us about yourself. You've posted before and I recognized you and am curious to get to know you better. I remembered you have a son; are you currently married? How close are you with your parents? Do you have siblings?

Bring problems or questions or just babble - as I'm so wont to do, like now!!!!!! It's all good.

:D
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

teartracks

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Re: AvPD vs. NPD
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2010, 10:40:14 PM »





Hi English,

Anxiety - I have it.

Lack of memories - I have that too.

Recovery - have been at it for about 10 years now.

Has it been worth it?  Yes.

Would I painstakingly whack my way through the jungle of misery again knowing the results would be as they are now?  Absolutely.

Do I feel wiser and more enlightened about my behavior and human behavior in general now?  A little.

Not sure I had any, but if I'd had any goals at the beginning of the 10 years, they would have been, like it or not, to survive.  Just survive by the minute, then the hour, then the day, week, year, years.

What personal good came of the last 10 years?  1.  I relinquished the debilitating fear I had of all other humans.  2.  I learned that everyone is vulnerable to the wiles of life.  3.  That each of us plays a part in seeing to the well being of the person next to us - call it reciprocity or the Golden Rule.  4.  That blaming and shaming those who caused my childhood anguish was a dead end street, but spending 7 years doing it seemed necessary.    5.  In my case, my parents did the best they knew how.   6.  With fear removed, I see people in general, but specifically individuals through different eyes now.  The fear I carried most of my life prevented me from seeing the real bad AND the real good in others.  My perception was all skewed. 

Somewhere along the way after having poured every waking moment into studying, introspection, self focus,  I asked myself the question, what does it matter what my diagnosis or their diagnosis is, aren't the tools I have to work with the rest of the way going to be the same as they are now?  Somehow that helped me get a clearer focus of where I needed and wanted my recovery to take me.   At first, the process worked me.  Now, I think I'm better equipped to work the process.  But it is a process!  It all takes time.  Not many of us here have had the luxury of a trouble free, trauma free, anxiety free, abuse free life.  The nature of life is that it takes time.  Time is its fuel.  The peculiar thing about us is that an extraordinary amount of our fuel, our time, is burned retrofitting us to survive, and if we're really lucky, live now. 

tt



« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 11:02:05 PM by teartracks »

seastorm

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Re: AvPD vs. NPD
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2010, 01:45:49 AM »
Hi English,

It is ok if you have big feelings. Anxiety, grief, panic are all part of having parents who were Ns or Ps.
You don't have to have the answers or be a shining example of mental health. This has been a place where I have shared a lot of my pain, fears, confusion etc. Sharing my story with witnesses who offer compassionate support has really helped me.

As for memories.... Alice Miller says that one does not have to unearth all the details to realize that they were abused as a child. The body holds the memories in the form of illness, tension, fatigue etc. There is probably enough available at this level to help you start coming to terms with the impact of your abuse.  And to have compassion for yourself in what you experienced then and now.

I hope you can feel safe and welcome here. I hope you keep posting. Tell your story, write about what concerns you and find your voice.

Sea storm
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 01:16:12 PM by seastorm »

swimmer

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Re: AvPD vs. NPD
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2010, 06:53:49 PM »
Hi English-

I understand what you mean about drawing blanks.... Sometimes I'll have a memory and I'll just be left with the feeling something is not quite right.  I've had poor memory on another front lately cause I'm a new mom.  I can't quite remember to give an example, but when I see your name on here on posts, I think good, this person English understands:)

I wonder if I contribute to this board as well.... I wonder if I belong anywhere sometimes....  I don't feel great about this, but understand intle tually this is normal.

Take care and carry on :)

 

Logy

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Re: AvPD vs. NPD
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2010, 08:15:45 PM »
English,
I made a post a while back where I shared my fears of not belonging here.  Of feeling lost in alot of posts and that I had nothing to contribute.  Thanks to everyone here, I realized that nobody cared if I had words of wisdom.  Just wanted to be a sounding board.  And I was allowed to contribute if I wanted, read others comments, and no one expected me to fix them.  What a breathe of fresh air!

Memory problems.  I have had them my entire life and still haven't figured them out.  I  doubt my memories every day.  I have very few memories of childhood.  Those that I do have are either feelings of being stressed or one of those memories burned into my mind where the pain feels as real today as it did 40 years ago.  Lately I have been thinking about why I have issues with my memory of things from last week or last month.  I think the memory issues from childhood are due to abuse.  But why do I have them now?  About something that was not abusive?  Is it a wire in my brain that never developed, a learned pattern of forgetting?  I do know that sometimes I just "check out" in certain situations.  Almost like I retreat, go inside, shut down.  For no reason that I can find.

English

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Re: AvPD vs. NPD
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2010, 05:56:14 AM »
Swimmer, seastorm, teartracks, phoenix rising, hopalong, thank you all for your support.  I'll have to think a while before I respond.  Logy
Quote
Lately I have been thinking about why I have issues with my memory of things from last week or last month.  I think the memory issues from childhood are due to abuse.  But why do I have them now?  About something that was not abusive?  Is it a wire in my brain that never developed, a learned pattern of forgetting?  I do know that sometimes I just "check out" in certain situations.  Almost like I retreat, go inside, shut down.  For no reason that I can find.

Logy, that sounds just like me.  It does seem that my brain is wired to forget.  I also check out a lot. That is an interesting thought:  abuse from parents teaching us not to remember.  wired to forget...I'm going to have to think about this.

seastorm

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Re: AvPD vs. NPD
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2010, 12:42:39 AM »
Hi English,

This place is called Voicelessness and is about finding your voice. There is something about being heard and understood that is really healing. You dont have to write Beethoven's Fifth or sound like Joseph Conrad to be listened to.


Today I feel sad. I read that Joely Richardson has discovered that grief is like having a dinosaur take your head in its mouth and then throw you around.....violently.  That is such a great description and I love that she comes out and says that. I love her  more because she is a wreck. I am one of those people who take a long, long time to grieve. It is messy, inconvenient, energy draining but necessary to being a human being. I have tried EVERYTHING to avoid this but my body, mind and soul just go on this path and I am like a passenger on a crazy ride to despair. Until it stops and I can breathe and feel ok again.

I hope you find a way to write a little and share again.

Sea storm