To Izzy

[ann3]

Yes, Kathy, you are correct:  Homosexuals, Gypsies, anyone considered "undesirable" were put in the camps & murdered.  The "undesirables" interfered with the nazi's master race.  You are also correct about the pink triangle.  Today, those pink triangles are also a symbol of "Never Forget". 

It always drives me crazy:  What would the world be without Gay People?  Leonardo Davinci, Michaelangelo, the Ancient Greeks, artists, writers, etc, etc, etc, just to name a few of the mega shapers of our world & civilization.  It just makes NO sense.

But, even today, less than 20 miles from Stonewall, anti gay, life threatening attacks.  It's the same kind of sick hatred of the Holocaust Denier, the Neo Nazi, the racist.

[Izzy_*now*]

  Board Registration Agreement and other Rules: Please read before posting!
« on: April 20, 2009, 02:37:17 PM » 



2)  When Posting, Do not Diagnose other Board Members:  Only professionals are qualified to diagnose, and such diagnoses require a complete, multi-session evaluation.

3)  No Contact:  Members may choose to have No Contact with one or more other members.  No Contact means no communication in posts or via Personal Messages, and no mention of or allusions to the no-contact member in posts.  If a member chooses No Contact with another member, the rule is always reciprocal (i.e., no contact in either direction).   

[ann3]

Board Rules?

What about the denial of crimes against humanity? 

[mudpuppy]

  In the five years I've been here I'd say 9 out of 10 political topics blow up in people's hands and the only ones that don't are because one side or the other is biting its tongue.
  Izzy posted some fairly inflammatory stuff along the same lines awhile back and the only reason that one didn't detonate is because the conversation was quickly changed and people, amazingly to me, didn't say nearly as much to her in response and she was IIRC somewhat apologetic. However I'm not entirely sure, as Hops suggested we should assume hate is what motivates every person who holds these type of bizarre beliefs. She still seems kind of oblivious to just how counter factual what she believes is and how inflammatory others find it; like everybody sits around and contemplates how maybe that Hitler guy was just a little misunderstood and Neil Armstrong was really in downtown Burbank on the Laugh In set when he said he was taking one giant leap for mankind.

mud

[cgm1028]

Two can play that game!

(The bold type has been added by me)

Registration Agreement

The purpose of the Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board is to provide a place to discuss experiences with “voicelessness”...

You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law.

[cgm1028]

Mud - you are absolutely 100% right.  These discussions never go well.  Religion and politics are two hot-button topics in any setting.  This is why I suggested that these type of posts NOT be allowed here.  Its not the purpose of this board.  As I said, there are other forums for those types of discussions.

[ann3]

  She still seems kind of oblivious to just how counter factual what she believes is and how inflammatory others find it; like everybody sits around and contemplates how maybe that Hitler guy was just a little misunderstood

Agreed, Mud:  "oblivious", but that is no excuse.  This Board is not a place for neo nazi diatribe.  IMO, she's "oblivious" because she REFUSES to understand or acknowledge the gravity of not only posting that here (and posting it several times), but she consciously REFUSES to acknowledge WHY it's wrong in general.

IMO, the obliviousness is a cover, she knows what she's done (several people have told her), but she REFUSES to acknowledge.

[ann3]

" otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law."

Thank you cgm.  Well, since Holocaust Denial is a crime in many countries, Izzy's violated International law* & therefore, she's violated Board Rules.


*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

Holocaust denial is explicitly or implicitly illegal in 16 countries: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Hungary, Israel, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, and Switzerland.[161]

The European Union's Framework decision on Racism and Xenophobia states that denying or grossly trivialising "crimes of genocide" should be made "punishable in all EU Member States".[162]

[CB123]

wait, wait, wait.

What Izzy has written is not in violation of United States Federal Law. 

In the United States, the US law takes precedence over international law.  Laws of other countries are not applicable here, nor are EU laws applicable in non-EU states.

I have gone to the ground with people in 3D who hold the position that Izzy espouses.  But hers is not a "neo-Nazi diatribe".  Be careful.  Look up neo-Nazi and what it means.  It is so easy when emotions run high to say more than one means to say--its especially easy to do online.

I really really like the way Richard has handled this.  He laid out factual proof.  He stated how Izzy's assertions made him feel.  He did it publically since her assertions were made in public.  What she has said is seriously wrong. 

I agree with Mud.  I think that she is oblivious.  I think she is scared--of her own loss of control in her life.  Of her sense that everything that should make sense, no longer does.  Day and night are mixed up to her.  People who should be helping her, arent.  She is in pain and on strong pain meds.  (yeah, I know, Iz....I'm diagnosing you.)

For me, this is not the person I knew when she joined the board.  If someone came onto the board from out of nowhere started writing this stuff, I would be going "what the hell????"  But I havent seen this in Iz  before she was run over by the car in the last year.

I guess if I were Richard, I would do exactly what he has done, stand up for the truth.  Beyond that, I dont see much value in calling anyone an N or saying that anyone here knows why her daughter is estranged from her.  I just dont see that that has any relevance.

CB

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi everybody,

I think the relevant issues have been raised and discussed, and it’s time to lock this thread.  

I do think it was an appropriate issue for this board.  6 million voices were silenced—and an attempt was made to deny that this happened.

Izzy, I hope your views are simply based on ignorance and naivete.  If not, they are a repetition of the same themes that directly resulted in the murder of 6 million people. There are wonderful books to read so that you can educate yourself.  I have listed a few at the top of this thread, but there are many, many more.  I’m sure, if you ask, other Board members will tell you about the ones that moved them most.    

Richard