Advice again, please, friends.

[Lupita]

I was sick in the hospital for four days. My N boyfriend was with me all the way. All night and day. Drove to the hospital everyday and stayed until he was kicked out. Supported me.

Sunday I was released and he brought me to his home to recover.

Monday his ex-wife came and spent three hours with him while I was lying down on his bed upstairs. She constantly comes to visit him. He chooses to keep her around. She has a lover. She lives with him, but she still comes an visit the house where they lived together for so many years. Almost 30. I have only one year with him.

But, when I am not here, I am at my apartment, and they get together in the privacy of the home where they spent so many years together, does she touch him? Does she try to have sex with him?

How can he be so insensitive to leave me in his room and spend three hours downstairs with her? “talking” I know it was “talking” because I was in and out of the room several times. So, they were just “talking”, but when they are alone, …..

My question, what is in there for me?

Now I am sure that Nism is in the genes because all his children are Ns.

His daughter 25 years old, said on the phone to him and he spoke so loud that I could not help to hear, “she better not be there when I come to visit”, she was talking about me.

I told him, “my son would never talk to me that way”

Now it is going to be Thanks Giving and it is our one year anniversary, we have been one year together.

His other son is coming to visit and he told him that he does not want me around. But I am here recovering from being in the hospital after a bad experience of intestinal obstruction and food poisoning, and pneumonia.

The worst thing is that he told him that he was flying in last night. M was worried, keeping his phone all the time, and he did not call, he did not come, he stayed in the middle of the road to attend a basketball game of his ex university with friends. He found out through facebook.

Those children are evil and M needs so much approval of them that makes me sick.

I told him, if you kick me out and allow your children over 30 years old to govern our life, it will be the last time.

Now, he helps me when I need. I need the help that nobody else gives me. I need the company that nobody else gives me. He is the first boyfriend and serious relationship I have in twenty years.

Should I ignore all of this just to keep the part that I want?

By the way. His flirting is almost nothing. He does not flirt like he used to. He only plays around like I do, and does not flirt in a malicious way like he used to. It has been three months since the last time he flirted.  And before that, it was another two months. He used to flirt every single night we got together. He has changed so much. He does not go out without me anymore.

So, he has made some changes. Am I making excuses or I am giving him credit for what he deserves credit?

Somebody help me here. CB where are you? MO2, Hop, PR, my friends, where are you?

Miss you.

[lighter]

Hi Lupe:

So glad to see you.... but sorry about the recent health issues.

Sounds like it was bad.

Look, the holidays and the kids and the flirting are all things that orbit around you and M, right?

You're still calling him an N.

You're calling his children N's.

Your upset that his wife is a stationary part of his life.

I'm having a hard time figuring out how much good there is compared to the bad.

I guess it comes down to your boundaries and expectations.

Have you done a pro v con list lately?

((((Lupita))))

Sounds like you're feeling better.

I'm so glad: )
Lighter/Mo2

[Hopalong]

Hi Lup,
So sorry you've been sick, and it sounds like it was really scary!

I don't know what to tell you about your bf, unfortunately.
I know it would be hard for me to merge into a family where kids ordered their father about.
I'm not sure I'd handle that well. But I think the big issue is whether you could completely
let go of trying to control him, or them, so you could be at peace in the relationship.

Nobody else can answer that question for you, but I do advise you to continue with the therapist
you mentioned you'd found.

The idea of being alone in life is very hard. I like Lighter's idea of a list of Pros and Cons.
That can really help you see, or somehow help your inner self communicate to your
"mental" self.

Stay well, keep healing, keep going to therapy...

xo
Hops

[Lupita]

I watched the video that Hops posted of sam vacning. M has many of the traits he has.

Thank you Mo2 and Hops.

He took care of me when I needed. it is not the only time he has helped me in a moment of great need. It has been several times.

He gives me company most of the time.

He casues me stress. Is stress a personal choice?

[Lupita]

His son did not want to come here to visit because of my presence. He told his son that he did not have anything to do with me, that we were only friends. His son came. His son observed that we are not only friends. His son is saying that he is going away to some other place with friends. The daughter does not even want to visit at all if I am here. The ex wife was here yesterday while I went to the doctor. They all went shopping together. She stayed five hours with M. And the son. M chooses to keep her around. He ( I think) likes to have her around. Sometimes I feel like a piece of furniture that can be pushed away and pull in back at his convenience. He wanted to send me to my apartment for the ten days of my vacation. Just because the son was here. I said, I will go and never come back. Then he did not let me leave. I visit him when I am tired after work, practice dance with him, make him look well in the dance floor, help him when he has back pain. Why should I have to spend my vacation alone? If that is the case I prefer to leave him forever.

So, having somebody during vacation is extremely important for me. Holidays are extremely important for me. Besides thank giving is our anniversary. Why to celebrate our anniversary with his ex wife in the house?

Why would he want to have a thanks giving with his children and his ex wife and me in his house? Nobody wants that.

Last year we hooked up because we were alone for thanks giving. Why no celebrate our anniversary?

Suddenly he wants to have thanks giving with all people? The x wife has a lover and she wants to spend it with that man. What is wrong with him? He is jealous that my son loves me to pieces and wants to compete with me?

Somebody help me understand this imbroglio.

[lighter]

Lupita:

It sounds like you stood your ground on being sent away over your vactation.

You stated the boundary, and he caved in, but not what he wanted to do.

Let's look at what he wanted to do:

1)  Send you away bc his grown son wants you out of his father's life.  This might be very odd, or it might mean that M is saying things about you behind your back to his family.  Is there any reason that his son would want you out of his father's life, that you can think of?  Any real reason?  It seems that the mother having a live in lover makes it less likely that M and his son want M and his ex to get back together.

2)  He wants the entire crowd together for Thanksgiving, even though it seems innapropriate and uncomfortable on several levels.  Would the ex's lover be there as well?  How do the kids feeel about him?

Does M not know what's apporpriate?  Maybe he doesn't.  Maybe uncomfortable is where he feels comfortable?

For that matter, maybe feeling uncomfortable, which is where you seem to be with M a lot of the time, is where you want to be, bc it feels comfortable to you?

You have to sit down, make a list of what you're willing to deal with, and lay it out for M, in my opinion.

Along with that comes laying  out consequences, and standing behind them if he crosses your boundary.

If you don't intend to enforce a consequence, then don't make that threat.

((((Lupita))))  It's good to hear you've been dancing, and receiving some care.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

I know a lot of people who WOULD like this, Lupita...feeling that the holiday is all about togetherness and family (even ex-es, in some cases--I would've enjoyed that too if mine had lived, though not as much as your bf enjoys his--just saying some exes do stay close) and inclusion. Not so much a "couple" thing:

Why would he want to have a thanks giving with his children and his ex wife and me in his house? Nobody wants that.

love,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Hi Lup sweetie! Sorry I've been preoccupied with some life stuff.

Here's what I'm hearing in what you wrote - let me know where I didn't hear right, OK?

M sounds like he's pretty non-traditional; non-conventional. Where you are more conventional & traditional in keeping holidays, etiquette, manners, social conventions, etc. That's bound to make both you uncomfortable at times! It also sounds like M's family is important to him - divorce or no divorce. Many people divorce and still maintain close relationships with an ex; only some go completely NC. It could be that these aspects of M are what you find attractive - the importance of family; the non-traditional, throw out all the rules of "how to be" side of him. That, by the way, leads me to think that you may be judging him a little harshly by throwing "N" into your description of him.

On the other side of things - it sounds as though he cares a great deal for you to devote himself to you through your recovery. You are becoming important to him, too. Maybe not quite as important as his children; they are after all his kids - no matter how they treat him, you know? And of course, you don't have as much life history with him as his ex does. That old history connection may very well be why he maintains this relationship with his ex - and not so much a romantic, sexual connection, as you might fear.

All my surmising here - on the little that you've described - makes me want to give M the benefit of doubt. I imagine that his feelings are complex; maybe even a bit conflicted about what he wants... about boundaries and rules. You obviously care for him a great deal, also. So, if all this is anywhere close to reality... why not stop trying to make him into someone else? You can't make his family go away - nor his natural feelings for them. If you want to be a part of his life, too - then you will have to accept some kind of compromise with the other parts of his life. Exactly what that compromise turns out to be, is probably impossible to plan out on paper. I expect it won't be very traditional. You'll have to wing it, with his input. Because, you know, to be with someone means you have to respect their feelings, wants, boundaries, etc too... just the way you want them to respect you.

I've done the blended family situation a couple of times. The one thing I know for sure, is that it requires loosening up the expectations, wants, and ideas about "how things should be" - especially when it comes to traditions and holidays. And even the shape of the relationship isn't the romantic, ideal picture either. It can't be when there are children involved; no matter how old they are. There has to be flexibility, trust in exceptional situations beyond normal relationship roles, and intentional, non-threatening communication. The last one is the most important, I think; it helps support and grow all the rest.

To help you decide whether or not you are comfortable with things as they are, why not ask him directly about his relationship with his previous family? Ask him about his feelings and why the relationship with the ex is important to him? What is he talking about with her? the kids? Ask him how he sees you fitting into the picture....  and then, go think about that for a bit by yourself.

Weigh that on the other side of the scale with what you want with him and how you feel about him. Do you care enough for him, to allow him to keep some kind of relationship with people who important to him? What do you see that relationship consisting of?

Then, go back to him and tell him about your feelings and what you've thought about. And see if there isn't a chunk of common ground - what you both want together - to consider a starting point for negotiating, and finding compromise between you for the other things that are making feel unsure and uncomfortable.

Hope this helps, Lup - he sounds like he might be a "good one" to hang on to, so you might have to edit your romantic dreams a little. I've found that if you can do this, you discover some great treasures this way!

[Lupita]

Lighter, the ex-wife’s lover will not be here. This woman, according to M, lives with a man and his wife, they are swingers, and belong to the only nudist camp here in the area. I know that the nudist camp is true. He let me use scrap paper for my studies and I found a copy of that woman contract with the nudist camp.

M says that she comes here because the kids would no go see her anywhere. So, the only way for her to see her kids is coming to the house when they are here.

I would say that if they see her kids or not it is not M’s problem, it should not be. She should fix that problem. Not M.

So, I left them for seven hours the other day. I went to different errands and what happened? The ex came. They went shopping together. The kids walk together and the ex and M walk together. So, I give him time and instead of spending time with his children the first thing he does is spend time with the ex.

I think he wants to re-live his family life, although his children are over 25 yo.

Hops, you are right, blended families is going to be something very difficult.

PR, you are right. He might be someone to keep. That is the only reason I continue with this Endeavour. Because I think that way too.  Few men take care of women in need, When they see a woman in need they run away. M helps, blends me with his family, brothers, mother, kids, ex-wife, etc. That sounds like a good man to me, It is just the other aspect that I have to re-evaluate like Lighter says, pros and cons.

Is the sense of belonging too important to put up with his dementia? Because the things he does I think are result of dementia. Like trying to organize a thanks giving that he has not done in years, why now? Just to ruin our anniversary? We were alone last year. And that is why we hooked up. Because we were alone during thanks giving day. I thought we were going to do the same and he surprised me . It seems that he does not want me to have peace.

CB, I think the way you are is because you have several children and if is not one it is another, so they will always keep you busy. I only have one and he is engaged and he is crazy about his girlfriend, and he has little time for me. I do not mind that. I want him happy.

Also, CB, you were raised  in USA, so your mentality has to be a little more liberal than mine. I do not understand how can you hook up with a Mexican and understand each other. That to me is a miracle. He is happy with you because you have nothing to do with your ex. If you ex was around, he would not be very happy. Now, I am an expert in latin lovers. If you want advice about him, I can give you a lot of wisdom. They are selfish. I am very happy for you and for the Mexican guy who got you, he is very lucky to have you. Any man would be lucky to have you. I bet he wont let you go because he knows your value.

But, the fact that I suffer about M’s ex is like you say, ti pushes buttons of my insecurities. She is not more intelligent than me, She does not have education, she is not pretty, she is overweight, and she has a lover, she wants to have his Thanks givng with her lover and come here late. But M wants her here and she does not want. She only comes here when I am at work. I have talked to her in person twice. She deos not seem to me like a bad person by M satanize her when talking to me. But he writes her nice e mails and M cannot do one single step without asking her for her opnion. He cannot even post an add in craigs list without talking to her first. I am very disappointed of M.

M feels my disappointment, and he feels my lack of respect in a very subtle way and he treats me bad to compensate that. 

My son and his GF are cooking for TG too and I have to go ther during the day, If M does not go with me I am going to be very happy. If he goes with me, I am going to be very happy. If I have to spend a dinner with the ex I am going to be very stressed.

So, that is where I am. Is this worth it? Like Lighter says, pros and cons. My therapist which I have not seen in several months, said that M is a used car that I will use until I get  new one.

I wish I did not have to think that way.

You guys talking to me, is being very helpful. Now, I only need help to find out what to do next. How to create a life of peace. Help me out.

[Lupita]

Why does M needs so much aproval from his kids? It should be the other way. Why does M needs so much aproval from his brothers?

Why cant I live and forget about this? Why cant I enjoy anything in life?

Why cnat I just feel happy with what I have instead fo wshing and desiring something I do not have?

Why do I feel bad all the time? no matter what?

Why this hole in my heart is never filled?

I am going to start a medicaiotn for anxiety. I will let you know if it helped.

I will tell you, when I was a child, I was punished if I said something positive about naybody. I was punished, my mother got mad at me telling me how ungrateful I was by saying something positive about somebody. And if I looked happy? She did something to change it. I am picking up the pieces.

I

[Lupita]

My mother always stuck needles in my skin. She told me very ugly things and then accused me of being sower. I was 5 years old and she asked my father all the time to punish me for things that were totally irrelevant.

That is why i dont have slef worth and let M treat me like sh=t, because this is the first time somebody let me in into a family.

Lack of dignity.

About M talking bad about me, it is possibility, but thinking about that makes me very paranoid. I try to avoid it. When I get paranoid I cant think clearly.

I need to feel weel. I need to have peace.

[Lupita]

Daer CB, Hope that I did not sound ungrateful to your answer. Your answers are veryimportant to me and for nothing in this world I want to lose your desire to answer to my needs of advice.
Just want to make sure that I did not discourage you of keeping advicing me. Your opinions are really important to me. I think to almost everybody of us. Many times I am just wating for your answer.

It is amazing to me that you were able to construct a nice relationship. But I do belive dip in my heart that you are able to construct a relationship with almost any person because you know how to gte the good of everybody.

In the iother hand, I know how to get the bad on everybody. Everybody gets mad at me almost all the time.

I start to think that I have a disabuility and my thinkking process is all crooked.

I have my doubts about M and that is why I come here. To hear you all guys what you have to say.

Love you, CB.

[lighter]

Lupe:

IMO, everyone needs to tell someone everything about themselves.... everything good, bad and ugly.... in order to remain level on this earth.

Who do you tell?

Who does M tell?

Sounds like he uses his children and ex...... sounds like he's pretty dependent on them for his emotional serenity.

Now, he's added you, and you have your idea of what a relationship should be.

You point out his flaws.

You point out his shortcomings.

You attack the way he navigates socially, and accuse him of attacking you personally.

Maybe it's just the way he copes with his life, and it will be how he copes after you're gone?

Maybe you state your boundaries, and he'd like to help you out with them, but he hasn't learned any new coping strategies, so he can let the old ones go? 

Relying on approval and attention from other women, he used to flirt with, might be something he has under control now, but what has he filled that void with?More need for approval from his ex and children?

Are you a safe place for him to be vulnerable?

Are you his friend, even if he can't meet all your needs?

What's best for him, even if the answer doesn't make you very happy?

Can you see yourself fitting into that scenario, with different expectations of that relationship?

What's best for Lupita? 

I think it would be finding a guy who's pro and con list is something you can live with, without tweeking his entire life.

It breaks my heart to see you writhing in pain over a relationship that might be something other than a life partner relationship.

What if this guy is a great friend for dancing, filling small voids of time and keeping at a distance?

What if you're trying to force this relationship to be something it can't be?

What if he's just a guy you enjoy being with, but won't be THE guy?  Can you change your expectations, and let the relationship be something else?

I'd love to hear that you're enjoying time with him, not agonizing when you're together.  What can YOU change to make that happen?

I'd love to hear that you're reading, and growing and spending time with other people who might be better life partners.... but you'll never know unless you explore.

You're not married, Lupe.

You can get out and look around...... I think you'll learn about yourself as you go.

Lighter

[debkor]

Lup,

I can tell you if it were me...It would be a big problem if the man I loved and had a serious relationship with had his ex-wife hanging around and coming to visit him.  Thier children are not minors.  They are grown and don't live in either's house.  Sure they can be friends (which I think is a great thing) when you share children but this would be Way Too Much for Me!

It wouldn't cut it for me.

I just couldn't image my husband...ex is coming over today, I'm here with ex, ex being down stairs as I was sick, ex going shopping with him, Um No Lup....I couldn't do it.

This is beyond holidays and blending families....

Seems like a lot of Red Flags...from the time you met M. 



Love
Deb

[Lupita]

Are you a safe place for him to be vulnerable?   NO

Are you his friend, even if he can't meet all your needs?  NO

What's best for him, even if the answer doesn't make you very happy?  NO

Can you see yourself fitting into that scenario, with different expectations of that relationship?   NO

What's best for Lupita?   I wish I knew. Somebody more straightforward, honest  with no hang ups from the past.
   
But who does not have hang ups from the past? This is the only man I have found that I have fun with and I enjoy being with when we are alone.

And I know I have problems because right now he went to the airport to pick up his son who was here yesterday and decided to visit a friend away and coming back today. I know I have problems because when he is not under my eye I feel incomplete, anxiety separation.
I am trying to find a place to go to because I don’t want to be in this house alone.

I will start my anxiety medication tomorrow.

Deb, I hear you. I must not have any sense of self worth.