Need strngth, he just e-mailed me

[BonesMS]

IZ, I will not answer that. It is out of place. Sorry.

Lastnight, for the first time in several weeks, I was laughing, by my self, home alone, just watching a comedy on TV. I was watching how I met your mother and two and a hakf man. But the one about how I met your mother, they trcking eachother, she wanted to have a girl and he wanted to have a boy and both were doing witch craft to get their desires true. It was hilarious. I did not laugh in a long time. I was relaxed. I did not have fear.
Today I just wook up and wook up with out fear.

I do not understand how this happen. I nee so much to grow up. I need not to feel unprotected, or that I have to have somebody to rpotect me. i can protect my self.

I just have to be normal. I need to be strong tonight. No option.

Morning, Lupita.

Like you, I decided to watch some funny stuff on TV to help myself laugh.  In my situation, I discovered a cartoon channel, (not cable), that has programs that are educational, uplifting, and laugh-out-loud funny!  It's been a long time since I've been able to even giggle at a cartoon.  I'm still beating myself up about needing to grow up and realize that I'm continuing the emotional and psychological abuse that was rained down on me while growing up.  We weren't allowed to be children while we were physically children because the NWomb-Donors and NSpem-Donors relentlessly demanded that we be THEIR OBJECTS tor their every whim and abuse.  Attempting to be human children were mercilessly punished on a continual basis.  Even though we are physically adults, we still need to nurture and heal that Inner Child that is in us all.  That Inner Child is still hurting.

Bones

[sKePTiKal]

I am very happy to hear that you've found a support group, Lupita!

Beginning with solo T sessions will help you unravel why this situation with M feels very like your Nmom... help you see where the connections are... and help you understand how you mind is "tricking" you into wanting to be back in the same old misery of the relationship with M again. It can be really complicated... because it's so hard to see ourselves, sometimes. The feelings are all upside down and inside out... don't make sense. That's not a matter of good-bad; child or grownup... it's just something we can't do all by ourselves. Just like there's this one section of my back I can't reach, that gets itchy...

Later, the support group will let you make some new friends - people like us who can "go there" on topics like this with you. And you won't feel so alone anymore because maybe one or two will become very close friends, that you can rely on and share things like this with. People who will care about you - and that you'll care about - in a healthy way. That you can actually go do things with; spend time with... unlike us cyberscribes!

And in the meantime, don't - as lighter so accurately said - volunteer to be M's victim... it'll just make things even more confusing for you. Sure, you'll see him at dances - why should you give up something you love to do so much, just because he's there? - but you also don't have to play his games anymore - to feel like a "whole" Lupita. You're going to figure out what's going on with Lupita... and why... and start to heal that so that you'll be able to see this relationship - the relationship itself, I mean - for what it is.

Good luck, sweetie! I know you'll be able to sort this out now - once and for all time.
(((((((((Lupita))))))))))

[CB123]

Lupita,

I know that Izzy's question annoyed you (and she did pose it rather bluntly), but I wonder if you might not think through what she is asking?

There are even physical reasons (hormonal releases) that will cause us to bond to someone we have slept with.  The feel-good hormones that come from the connection can be very addicting....and can skew ones perception of what is going on.  I look at it as a BLESSING when you are in a committed relationship--it has a smoothing-over action to the daily irritations that come with living with someone everyday.  Personally, I think it was DESIGNED to serve that function.

When you are in a relationship that is not going well....or that is too new for that level of physical involvement, I think it can cloud ones perception of what is really going on.  It can blur boundaries in a relationship that needs them retained for a while longer.

Dont answer the question on line.  Dont answer it for anyone but yourself.  But I think its important to sit down with yourself and ask yourself: if someone that you had never been intimate with were treating you the way this guy is treating you, would you stick around and try to make it work out? 

Would you feel the almost irresistible pull to go back with him if your total experience with him was dancing?  Imagine that all you have done together is dance, go out to eat, go to the movies.  And during those times, he treated you exactly as he does now.  No intimacy.  Would you feel confused?  Would you feel pulled two directions?  Or would it be very clear about where the relationship is?

Would you have the expectations of him (about his kids, his ex wife, his behavior on the dance floor) that you do, if you had not been intimate?  In your mind, does the act of intimacy include a level of commitment that he is now not living up to?  Do you think that he knows that you expect that level of commitment?  Could intimacy mean something else to him than it means to you? 

Perhaps you two keep hitting the same wall because you want different things--and you are assuming that the intimacy means you want the same thing.  So it feels like he is betraying you over and over, when he is actually not saying the same thing you are when you are physically intimate. 

So.....see if any of this gives you more insight into the dynamics of what is going on.  Sex is very very powerful and can have a lot to do with the sense of powerlessness that you feel now.

CB

[debkor]

Hey Lup,

So you loved him?  I loved my ex-h for a long time (even after I was not with him).  Alright there were many (nuts things about him) for sure (he was crazy) but there were many thing's (loveable) about him. 

Um yeah that sounds crazy (I know) but every now and then you would and could....Enjoy him....Just not be in a relationship with him.  And how did I learn that  (being in one) that was way different then when I had met him.

You just don't stop loving.  You did/do love him.  That's alright, Lup.   You can but you are not his doormat.  He can not welcome you in and show you the door and welcome you in and show you the door.....You can and must stop this (even loving him). 

It takes time to heal.  Your heart is broken. You are disappointed and heart sick.  And there is no time clock of.....End it Now.   

Sure you know you should and are not ready to do it, yet.   I think you are heading there (carefully) thinking out everything.  I don't see you making any excuses for his behavior nor do I see you allowing this to go on for much longer.

But I do see you......you are covering all end, putting them together and that takes time.  You want to complete it..well thought out..and very clear about it.

You are strong.

What you write is of (strength).   Your thinking!  Your doing the puzzle.

Ah Lup ...that is what I hated to do the most.......but we do.
Then we get the whole picture (of ourselves)  what we are made of, what we have been through, why we went through it, where we may be mixing up (our own issues) trying to resolve them with some one else.....and then.......we do the talk to self, the examination, what's really wrong with this picture and find a (whole lot of pcs) that we took into the (new puzzle we are to solve) the relationship...that we might have been attracted to (of something we missed in childhood) what made me stay when I knew I should have run.  What do I have to really resolve and with whom.

I found it was me.

And you found it is you.....

Our past experience trying to have someone (fix it for us) and ran right to the one's who couldn't.

Only we could.

It is up to us....

And look at you go....

Don't put a time on it.....Look how far you have come.  Look at the puzzle you are solving (you).  I'm just watching you put it together.

Cut your self a break.

You come a long way.

Love
Deb

[nolongeraslave]

Lupita,

I know that Izzy's question annoyed you (and she did pose it rather bluntly), but I wonder if you might not think through what she is asking?

There are even physical reasons (hormonal releases) that will cause us to bond to someone we have slept with.  The feel-good hormones that come from the connection can be very addicting....and can skew ones perception of what is going on.  I look at it as a BLESSING when you are in a committed relationship--it has a smoothing-over action to the daily irritations that come with living with someone everyday.  Personally, I think it was DESIGNED to serve that function.

When you are in a relationship that is not going well....or that is too new for that level of physical involvement, I think it can cloud ones perception of what is really going on.  It can blur boundaries in a relationship that needs them retained for a while longer.

Dont answer the question on line.  Dont answer it for anyone but yourself.  But I think its important to sit down with yourself and ask yourself: if someone that you had never been intimate with were treating you the way this guy is treating you, would you stick around and try to make it work out? 

Would you feel the almost irresistible pull to go back with him if your total experience with him was dancing?  Imagine that all you have done together is dance, go out to eat, go to the movies.  And during those times, he treated you exactly as he does now.  No intimacy.  Would you feel confused?  Would you feel pulled two directions?  Or would it be very clear about where the relationship is?

Would you have the expectations of him (about his kids, his ex wife, his behavior on the dance floor) that you do, if you had not been intimate?  In your mind, does the act of intimacy include a level of commitment that he is now not living up to?  Do you think that he knows that you expect that level of commitment?  Could intimacy mean something else to him than it means to you? 

Perhaps you two keep hitting the same wall because you want different things--and you are assuming that the intimacy means you want the same thing.  So it feels like he is betraying you over and over, when he is actually not saying the same thing you are when you are physically intimate. 

So.....see if any of this gives you more insight into the dynamics of what is going on.  Sex is very very powerful and can have a lot to do with the sense of powerlessness that you feel now.

CB

Very true, CB. I think people underestimate how powerful that bonding hormone is.

[lighter]

((Lupita))

I was so happy to read you're feeling strong, and able to protect yourself.

It's true, you know.

What a wonderful post to read: )_

Lighter

[Lupita]

CB, although I do not like your post, I appreciate your time and your intention. Lighter, Thank you.
Deb, your post was totally uplifting for me. Thank you.

Last night was a sad and painful night. He arrived at the dance with his brother and his sister in law. He had a team with him. I was alone. That has happened all the time. Many women wanted to dance with him. I had to work hard on getting somebody to dance with me. Still, I danced with five different gentlemen. He and his team sat with me.

Like Deb says, it takes time. I am decided, I made up my mind that I do not want to continue with him but ti takes time. I told him that I will dance with him but I am not his girlfriend anymore. Still we danced most of the time but he danced with others and I did too.

He wanted to give me a gift and I said shove it up your a**. I did. I treated him like sh*t. He flirted all night. I did not show any love for him. Still he stayed with me most of the time. A polish woman, tall and blonde, and pretty, flirted with him all night. Before he left, I heard him tell her “we’ll see each other again”.

He is keeping his options open. He does not see me as something important, he sees me as an object. He is narcissist. He behaved like nothing had happened.

H has no idea how much I am suffering, he odes not care. I am sorry all the dancers think we are still together, and they respect him. The men respect each other, the women do not.

I am the one who lose a dance partner and I am the one who will have a very difficult time. He has many women wanting to dance with him, he does not suffer, and he has a family with him all the time. I am alone. I have nobody.

Every time he talked about his Christmas party, I walked away. Until he stopped talking about it.

I am starting to think that to be able to detach from him I am going to have to stop dancing so I do nto see him. But, it is so sad, to stop the only activity I really like.

But, it hurts to see him flirting, to see him around, he still sits with me and men think that he is still with me.

He did not talk about tomorrow, he is going dancing to a friend’s place, he did not invite me, I do not know if he is going to invite me.

He still wants to celebrate new years eve with me in a tango party. I do not want to be alone for new years eve, I want to have fun. I have no place to go if I do not go with him.

He does not give me any security, like telling me what is he going to do. He enjoys torturing me.  That is why I need to get it out of my heart, my brain and my life. Maybe if I find a place to go for new years eve and I do not see him at all it will be easier. But that means stop dancing,  I have spent so much money in dancing clothing, shoes, classes etc.

I regret so much to have been hooked up with him. I am sad again, despite I was OK on Monday night. I am very sad and lonelier.

[Lupita]

The good thing is that I did not melt in hins arms. I did not feel love when I was dancing with him. I felt disgusted, mad, sad, furious, and at any moemtn felt that I wanted to hug him and kiss him and get back with him. I felt in pain all the time, all the time.

I think that was good because other times when he had pushed me away, and he came back, I recieved him crying in his arms and loving him like crazy, kissing him, hugging him and showing all women that he was still mine.

Last night I did not have any desire to kiss him, oor hug him, I just danced with him, but I was very sad and hurt and mad. I hope that is a good sign.

The other good thing is that I did not feel desperation when he was dancing with other women. I saw him as less. He does not know that he has psychomotor problems, and how much I helped him to advance ind ancing, how much a piched his leg to show him what leg he had to move, how much I dcihpher what he was doing wrong to find out how to get a move, how I worked for him, how I devoted so much time for him and he things he was doing me a favor. He has no idea what he has lost. He does not know that he has lost. He has no idea I am hurting so much. He things anther woman is going to be able to help him like i did. He has no idea what he has lost.

[lighter]

Lupe:

I wish you could have a core group of female friends at the dance class.

Whatever happened to the nice older lady who spoke to you?

It's OK to be social and invite conversation with normal nice people.

It's Ok to let people know you aren't still with M at class.

It's Ok to move on.

I hope you keep dancing.

I hope you stop focusing on M, wherever he is.

Focus on Lupita, and what she wants.

Actually ask yourself.... "What do I want to do/eat today?"

Then make mindful plans for yourself, and focus on them/yourself.

M doesn't know exactly what he's lost, but he'll feel the sting if you redirect yourself and get over him.

(((Lupita)))

[Lupita]

I need to read and re-read CB's post number 3 in this thread.

Then you will be dancing and he will do all the things that he has done in the past that make you crazy--leave you on the dance floor to show someone else how to dance.  Flirt with someone right in front of you.  Leave you sitting at the table while he dances with someone who appears to be laughing at your discomfort.

Picture yourself kicking yourself for falling for it again.  Picture yourself wishing you could go back and say "no" when he called.  Picture yourself wishing you could go back....

Oh!  You are back!  You arent there yet.  You havent said yes.  You can let this be the second chance that you will wish for tomorrow night.

I need to focus on MYSELF like lighter says. I need to forget about M. I need to forget. I need to move on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please, God, give me peace. Help me.

By the way Lighter, the old lady last night danced very close with M and she closed her eyes while hanging from his neck, I almost vomited. Women are bad in the dance floor. They are no good friends there. Not true. I know two ladies that are very honest and respectful of me. I'll Keep them.

[Lupita]

Although I read and re read cb post right now, I am kicking my self for saying no last night. I said no last night. i said no. I sadi no.
Now the polish blonde tall woman is going to have fun on new years eve with M. i am going to be alone. I have no place to go. I have to be alone. Like always. Always alone. It ha sbeen my destiny.

I know that God does not give me M back because he know it is not for my good. I know M does not bring any good to my life, but just pain and sandness, scorning, despise and making me feel like nothing.

But still, at this moment it feels horrible. Horrible.

[Lupita]

Having M in my life is like drinking poison. I have to internalize that. I need to feel well.
I am fine.
I am OK
I will survive.
He is nefarious, he is deleterius. He makes me look bad, he provokes me, he elicits the worst from me. He likes to torture me.
Why do I want somebody like that in my life?

God knows better.

I am fine. I will be fine.

God help me. M choosed the worst time of the year to do what he has done. I said no last night. I know in my brain is the correct thing to do. My heart is devastated.
I dont think I can go to the new years milonga. I have to find something else. I am lonely. God be with me. I need you god. I need somebody to be with me.

[Lupita]

I mean nothing to him. Nothing. I am nothing for him.

How can I feel sos sad for somebody who does not care about me. He does not give a sh*t. I am nothing. I am disposable. He can find somebody immediately.
I saw it last night. In front of my eyes, the polish blonde tall woman. She flirted and before he left he said, "we will see each other again"

M has no sense of loyalty, or consideration for my feelings. He does not care. He does not care. He does not care at all.

[debkor]

Lup,

Alright enough about M.  Let's talk about Lup.  I think you heart will be broken if you sit home or if you dance (even with M there or not there).

You love dance.  You always loved dance.  You danced before you even met M.  I don't think you should give it up.  It's your passion.

I believe you to be stronger (then you think you are). Of course it will hurt seeing M there but why (Isolate yourself) from something you love (DANCE).

Do not give up (your own passions) because (HE) makes you feel bad.  You love your dance.  You want to dance and be at New Year's Eve.....Why shouldn't you be there?  Your heart will still be (hurting) and I know for me....At home....Isolating myself from something I love (like dance) would be worse.

Of course you would be alone.  You would be making yourself be alone....And why should you?  Tell me why?

So you won't see M?   You have been seeing him (for a long time).  You really see him and are wounded.  You loved him.  You loved the (illusion) he once gave.  Now you see the real him. 

Would you have fell deeply in love with him if you Knew him to be this way the frist time you met him?  I think you would have thought him a Jerk (and needs to get over himself) and danced off with other people.  You wouldn't have given him all these thoughts you are giving him now.  And you wouldn't be feeling so lonely because you wouldn't have let him in to your heart.   You didn't know.  It's alright Lup.  It has happened to many of us on this board.

Stop this.  Stop this now.  Feel your pain.  Pain is telling you something but pain will not freeze you...it will heal you.  Let it happen (no matter how bad you feel).  You are saying it....He is no good for me but I loved him and it hurt's.  Yes it hurts deeply.  I understand you completely but don't shut down or shut out. 

There is no one on this planet that can heal you quicker.  No one.  Feeling the bad heals you.  Looking at what is really going on (heals you) as you are.
The things you are saying, the things you are looking at, the heart broken.....is clearing it's way....to healing.

Don't try to Stop It....Let it happen.  I know it sucks......But Please Lup....don't give up your passions.  If you want to dance.....Then DANCE!  DANCE YOUR ASS OFF....DANCE LIKE YOU NEVER DANCED BEFORE... and hold your head high for Lup (loves to dance).....Put on something now to listen to and Dance...laught, cry, yell, and Dance!    Just don't stop doing what you enjoy!!  It may be hard but don't Give Up what you Love so much.

Since I have known you from Day one...You alway's talked about your love of Dance don't let what happened spoil that for you.  He does not have that power.  He does not have that power.  Repeat...he does not have that power..

I will continue to live my passion's and Dance!!!!!!!!!  Oh hell Lup, if I lived by you I'd dance where you dance because I can (so feel) the passion about dance through you...it's electric!!!  You give that off.  Did you know that?  Go Dance Lup!!!  You were born to dance!!!!! 

Cheerleading you!!! 

Love
Deb

[Hopalong]

I am starting to think that to be able to detach from him I am going to have to stop dancing so I do nto see him. But, it is so sad, to stop the only activity I really like.

You may have a whole lot of reasons why this is not a good suggestion, and please do not feel you have to convince me. I don't think for a minute you should abandon your passions or things that make you joyful. I do think you could be thinking about altering their form for a time. So I'll ask (because I care about you):

How about giving up THAT dance community and giving up COED dance, especially tango, for one year?

Instead, could you consider:

--a NIA class (usually all female)
--a volunteer role teaching dance to senior citizens?
--a modern dance or community theater activity you can volunteer for
--teaching dance to kids (you could be paid)

In all of those settings you could tap into your talent and joy in movement, meet nice (new people) who aren't about mating-dramas on the dance floor, and even earn money that could help pay for therapy.

I'm sure there are other ways, too, that I haven't thought of.

My main thought is that I do think you should avoid him for a while because you don't feel right now strong enough to be in his vicinity without terrible anguish.

I liked hearing that you suddenly began to see him as human when you were observing him, and not a drug you had to have. Even for a few moments. That is a sign your mind is waking up from the drug's effects (fusion literally alters the chemistry of the brain).

love, encouragement, keep thinking of new experiences you could have that are DIFFERENT.

xo
Hops