Spring Project: Design a healthy ego

[sKePTiKal]

Here I go again! LOL...

So, I been thinkin'... and it looks like a couple of you are thinking some of the same things... and I could babble a whole bunch and not make a whole lot of sense, but I think it's time to try something different. A different approach.

So, what is the difference between "us" - collectively - who've been so intensely affected by awful parents, evil spouses, and the infuriating bosses that we call Ns... and people who aren't as affected by them? The people who can interact with them, work with them, and don't ever waver in their sense of self? The people who don't second-guess themselves and can easily say of the N: they're messed up and just walk away... and they never "get any on them" in their dealings with them???

We've been hurt to the core and hobbled from learning to walk on eggshells... we've been so busy trying to dodge the next radioactive emotional grenade... that I think we missed out on parts of developing a healthy ego (in the Freudian sense) along the way. Hell, I'm not sure I even know what "healthy ego" is... or what it might offer one in the way of "immunity" to the interpersonal depradations that I know it's not possible avoid or hide from or completely remove from one's life without finding a cave and becoming a total hermit. Like it or not... these emotional zombies exist... and while I'm not interested in co-existing with them any longer than is absolutely necessary I do need to learn whatever it is can get me through the occasional encounter - centered, calm, unshaken & unscathed... and then go on to the next thing my attention needs to or wants to focus on. Constant battle readiness or seige uses too much energy at my age...

So, I'm calling on all you creative folk & deep thinkers here to help collaboratively design a "healthy ego"... maybe "solid sense of self" is another way to say it that means the same thing. What are those characteristics? Can we come up with examples? What do you think is important to developing a healthy ego... your positive sense of self? This can't be a "one size fits all" definition nor a frankenstein of everything patched together... but maybe more like a buffet where everyone's plate might hold different amounts and combinations of things...

I mean, I see that we're all struggling with this - each in our own ways. And yet there are people in our lives that we know well, for whom this kind of thing is not a struggle at all. When I asked myself what the difference between me and my hubs is - for instance - the only thing that returns is that he has a stronger sense of himself - healthy ego in other words - and so his interactions with the very same people who drive me into coniption fits hardly bother him. Maybe there's more to it than that... I don't know. But it seemed like this might make a good exercise - thought project - for us to explore.

So, who wants to play?

Here's one thing I've run across that fits here... I don't have to apologize for asking for or stating what I want/don't want. My asking or making a statement doesn't constitute a boundary violation, every single time in every single instance. Regardless of the Ns of this world think, you know?

[Guest]

 
I want to play!
A healthy ego is probably not too sensitive, since life is insane. It helps not to see that (to have self-serving goals and so on). A 'healthy' ego probably works best for the reproduction of the individual (to the detriment of others, unless they help the individual in that 'altruistic' way). Okay....

A healthy mind depends upon....trust in self. Trust that reality is what we perceive (and be pretty accurate about it!). The ability to hold the centre when under attack. To know when to move away from real danger, but not be unnaturally afraid of it. Oh that whole bunch of stuff. Examples? That seems almost impossible without being in someone else's head. Actually a woman I read on twitter seems to have one, come to think of it.

Self trust.

[Guest]

CB

Thing is, some people are very aware of the hum of tension, and some are not.  So maybe the reason we struggle so is because of the awareness.  I am not sure exactly what a healthy ego is, but I doubt sincerely that the majority of people have it.

Rings very true with me. First part, being aware of tension, oh my, in November I felt myself being strung / stretched out by interactions between other people (who i care about). One person was bullying, telling the other person what to feel, what not to feel....shouting at them, finger-pointing...and all in the name of doing what was 'good' for the recipient .. or so it seemed to me. While I kept my boundaries (it wasn't me being shouted at), the 'tension' was awful. I just showed and told the recipient that what they felt and thought was okay, more than okay. When 'tensions' are high, some people react by turning into complete inconsiderate control freaks...I should know. Okay that's not everyday tension, but I feel more aware of everyday tension than some seem to (but who knows?). I guess that's one 'benefit' of being trained that way and of hypervigilance...but it really does have benefits too. Knowing when to run, when to help, when to shout, when to back off...perhaps just that little bit quicker. Survival/acting.

On the other hand i can tell when people are speaking through the child/parent in their heads. It's as obvious as day.

I think it's doubtful too that the majority of people have healthy minds, are centred etc. The majority of people get by. Boundaries are key, knowing where I start and finish. Looking back, not having that sense seems ludicrous and insane. I'm losing touch with what I used to be. Sometimes I try to remember exactly how x moment felt, and it's more difficult. Which is interesting...but not very!

[Hopalong]

PR:

The people who can interact with them, work with them, and don't ever waver in their sense of self? The people who don't second-guess themselves and can easily say of the N: they're messed up and just walk away... and they never "get any on them" in their dealings with them?

CB:

Just because someone says I am the problem, doesnt mean I am--doesnt mean I need to accept their analysis and start "fixing" myself.

Guest:

The ability to hold the centre when under attack. To know when to move away from real danger, but not be unnaturally afraid of it.

I love all of these comments. Great topic, PR.

PR's quote brought immediately to mind for me: "role models". For me, seeing responses like that, in a situation that for me triggers "unnatural fear" (thanks Guest) ... is something I could try to use intentionally as a guidepost. Maybe what will help is if I tell myself while noticing, "I can work on underreacting like that, too. I will start by trying to release my reaction in this moment, whatever it is, more quickly. Maybe next time I'll have less of a reaction."

The trick would be to not shame myself for not being like them, but just to take their example as a helpful gift. An appearance of something in nature (human reactions to each other are just another thing in nature, after all) that I can contemplate. Would I feel inferior to a gazelle because I was a rabbit? No. I'd watch it, take it in.

CB, oh I hear you. Harsh critics are everywhere. I think part of the Nsurvivor brainwashing is to believe that a bold negative observation by definition must be more true (because it sounds "braver" and in this culture we worship power and force)...than a soft positive. When it may really be just: 1) bold, and 2) negative.

I don't know if this has any applicability to building a strong ego, but I found myself telling my T yesterday morning that over the weekend I'd realized that one of the drives I believe is behind seeking therapy, counseling and support...is the need to be assured that one is a good person.

My failures and heartbreaks sowed doubt. Because "happy" (again the culture) looks more "right". So if I have been in that much pain, or have been victimized, I must've...deserved it. A healthy ego, I think, would toss that off like rainwater off an umbrella, and not have to ponder whether I am good.

For some reason that exchange really helped. Something eased greatly. I have been taking all the stresses and fears in my current situation and personalizing them, as evidence of failure. They really are not. I was diagnosed with ADD last year. I lived for decades not understanding why my approach to things was chaotic. I think some of my "unnatural fear" came from that. Too much was inexplicable. And others didn't seem as hampered as I felt.

Going forward, I can just do the best I can and instead of seeing that as a meaningless statement, realize it's a healthy one and I can celebrate small milestones.

I think a lot of having a healthy ego is building the habit of being on one's own side, without the eternal inner-UN that tries to be all things to all people and create perfect justice in all situations.

xo
Hops

[SilverLining]

Something I've been working on:  having sympathy and compassion for other people and their problems, without feeling (or being made to feel) that I am somehow responsible for their well being.   Maybe this is another aspect of having and recognizing healthy boundaries.     

[sKePTiKal]

Yes, I think not having strong boundaries is mutually exclusive with a strong sense of self (I just tortured some syntax - sigh)... and there are many "root causes" of that boundariless-ness. I like what guest said... about being being sensitive to a sort of interpersonal "frequency" - be it tension or otherwise... I can relate to that!  And maybe it does take what was once a "problem" - hypervigilance - and turn it to a positive use - protecting one's calm. I can see it also over-riding boundaries, sometimes, too... and even barraging a sense of self. (thinking repetive, ongoing violence or aggression...)

Empathy - yes SL - we feel for others without getting "blown away"... and try to help or at least console or comfort. Without this capacity, how can we be whole humans? (on the other hand, I think I can also understand "injuries" to empathy that can heal)...

... the need to be assured that one is a good person.

Hops, this jumped out at me... I've been there too. And I think that even something this basic... might be absolutely one of the major first building blocks... for sense of self. I'm gonna ponder on this a bit more... it kinda strikes me as a neon arrow waving at me - and yelling HEY - OVER HERE - YOU GOTTA CHECK THIS OUT... coz there's more than face value here.

Oh... and teartracks? When you get over here? Yeah - I think what you said about the system and entropy do fit! I get what you're saying... I think...

[Guest]

Hops

The trick would be to not shame myself for not being like them, but just to take their example as a helpful gift.

Very very difficult and awkward and excrutiating.....................but..............do-able.
Hell, what's the alternative? Oh I know what the alternative is and it stinks. Not somewhere one can stay i think.

[sKePTiKal]

A healthy mind depends upon....trust in self. Trust that reality is what we perceive (and be pretty accurate about it!).

Well, here's another piece I'm picking up off the buffet as "important", to go along with Hops' "good person"... for my plate. They might even be intertwined, interdependent... but I've gotta ramble my way to these - just thinking out loud here... taking a detour back again to boundaries.

I hadn't even HEARD of boundaries - in all my reading, "seeking", and oh yeah, I lived with a psychologist for a couple of years; off & on... until I started therapy. At the same time, my neighbor gave me/Twiggy the book "I and Thou"... and I read and got the rudimentary gist of it at 12. Buber talks about this as if it's a mystical, spiritual concept or ideal. It was the closest explanation of what transpired between my mom - and her "targets"; including me. (tried to reread it recently and just couldn't)

Well, in practice... boundaries are quite different. But perhaps Buber was right about the loftiness of boundaries, when considering the value of them. There has to be an acknowledgement of "this is me" and "this is you" between two people - no matter how unspoken or unconscious this acknowledgement is. Strangers on the street acknowledge this basic fact in allowing each other an amount of physical space to "be" in. The more intimate the relationship, the more important that acknowledgement is, I *think*... but when there's an "us"... well, things aren't so clear anymore but there is some room for "error".

When that acknowledgement is MISSING, inconstant, and/or unreliable - let's say in an insecure or disturbed attachment situation (or living with an N) - one is left with a problem to solve: what did I do wrong? what can I do to reacquire that acknowledgement? And if this problem doesn't get solved or solutions remain temporary, one-off kinds of things... when the goal posts keep moving... this turns into a self-reflection... self-judgement... self-analysis and image and... of "I" must be a failure; "I" must be a bad person - weak person - not fit to take up space on the planet, much less ask for, work for, try to be - acquire - X Y or Z. [I'm speculating... not stating fact here]

Giving and receiving that positive kind of acknowledgement is a kind of emotional, nurturing equation I think. And when it fails repeatedly, or in a huge significant way, or for a long, long time... that emotional understanding of oneself above... the fear that one is a bad person starts to feel like it might be true - external evidence of empathy, compassion, and long-standing relationships to the contrary. The fear that it might be true... is self-doubt. The repetition of failure to acquire that acknowledgement - emotionally - turns into lack of trust of self. And all this alchemy is going on emotionally... not always noticed by one's rational mind.

So, OK - maybe just like one needs a plate at my metaphorical buffet... maybe the plate is like paying attention to these emotional patterns and undercurrents, making them more conscious, and then acknowledging the real need to have someone acknowledge oneself ENOUGH... to finally feel "safe" enough to trust one's own perception... oneself... and to stop questioning if one is a good person or not; because one is as good as one is - in the moment. (I think we all have the capacity to be lots of things we normally aren't, when the situation demands it.)

Maybe the buffet needs to be followed with a dessert course - paired with an appropriate wine of course - of compassion and empathy for ourselves as "everyman" - 'coz we're all just doing the best we can???

[lighter]

I think just letting negative or undesirable thoughts go by, without giving them any energy, is part of a healthy ego.

Everyone must experience negative thoughts, but some people choose not to focus on them. 

They move on, as a matter of habit.

Lighter

[Guest]

Yes Amber (all of it)...except....we're not all everyman, no, really, we aren't and I'm not doing an us and them, oh wait, i might be! Actually, yes I am. There comes a time to draw a line and say, no: they did not just do the best they could. They chose to do the worse they could. Okay, maybe they couldn't have done much otherwise, but they nevertheless did it.

This thread isn't about 'them' though is it?

Some 'negative' thoughts and feelings - like guilt, and real fear - serve a very useful function.

I do agree with the bulk of your post Amber, I'm just not there at the moment.

[sKePTiKal]

Since I've been officially dubbed the List Queen in my house... let's see what we've got so far:

healthy boundaries (ie. - strong, but open to connecting with others)
self-trust
a general inner sense of oneself as a "good person" (ie. - we make mistakes, but not intentionally on purpose try to hurt, cheat or make someone else miserable; we apologize when our wrongs are pointed out to us)

and I think I can sum up my last rambling post as

self-awareness; self-attunement; self-acknowledgement - synonyms maybe? or 3 completely separate things that are usually co-present with each other?

What about sense of humor? The ability to laugh at oneself... and one's own BS (y'all know I'm full of it!)?

I think Lighter's suggestion has merit, too - about not dwelling on, obsessing, or getting tangled up in negative thoughts. She's right, you know... we all have negative thoughts... everyday...

I guess, based only on my own experience, I've noticed that there is a big difference between the time I used to let them take up so much of my time and energy and attention - because of a whole pile of radioactive, toxic waste that I hadn't really addressed... when those thoughts are the predominant "reality" one is working with... it kinda precludes the possibility of "healthy ego". And whatever that phase of healing could be called, it's almost a pre-requisite to being able to let the negative go later on...

now, I feel there's more of a balance... somehow... and also way more "space" where all that stuff used to be in my head (for me, my head's almost the same as my reality - I also include feelings now & I do allow for the universe to insert whatever into that reality; I like surprises and randomness and variety)... space for other kinds of things & new people... whatever they might be.

But... until Lighter said something... I hadn't really looked at this. Noticed. And of course, my old habits are really entrenched... and they haven't completely "let go" yet. But I wonder... would it be possible for someone to hang on to negativity and still be defined as having a healthy ego? or are these mutally exclusive? [Digression warning... does the answer to that question really matter to our design process?]

Here's something to ponder: what about relationships? Is it absolutely necessary for a determination of "healthy" to have relationships? How many? What kind? What is the range? Or is this completely personal and individual - even to the extreme of someone being classified as "healthy", yet living with almost no relationships?

Do we need to put relationships on the buffet list?

OH and I just remembered a topic Leah talked about a lot - authenticity... do we need some of that, too?

[Guest]

When I wrote the last post above, I was frustrated about a particular 3D subject and I think it shows (a lot of displacement going on though in what I said).

Lighter, what you said:

I think just letting negative or undesirable thoughts go by, without giving them any energy, is part of a healthy ego.

Everyone must experience negative thoughts, but some people choose not to focus on them. 

They move on, as a matter of habit.

sounds too much like the emotional bloodsuckers to me. I think it depends on what you mean by negative thoughts. If I think to myself "I really screwed up there" I don't want to move on, I want to learn not to screw up like that again. But there are negative thoughts that do no good at all (I remember them)...but: if I hadn't have thought about the thoughts, surely they'd still be there?
You know, I've probably got caught up in something here that has zero to do with what's being talked about. I'm thinking too much about a (sad, frustrating) 3D reality and it's so far away from 'healthy' that it's affecting my focus. Hmmmmm. I need to change my focus; see you later.

[lighter]

I think we all need to be known and accepted, as our authentic selves, on some level in order to be healthy.

If we're spending a lot of time figuring out how to "act" in order to be accepted, then we're in some kind of trouble.

Everyone wants to have what's most important about them acknowledged, not challenged and certainly not threatened.

This goes for the N's, us and every other PD person walking the earth.

We all want to belong and feel secure.

It's what everyone has in common, and we all need some kind of relationship/contact with others.

I guess maybe there is no "them" and "us."

They're "us", but something's broken.  Something's arrested inside. They believe they must take and control in order to be accepted and be loved.

I guess a healthy ego can step back, and observe life, without feeling the need to control everything and everyone.

A heatlhy ego can accept reality and roll with the punches.

A healthy ego lets go of the past, and embraces today, not the future.

Very interesting thread, Amber.

When I wrote the last post above, I was frustrated about a particular 3D subject and I think it shows (a lot of displacement going on though in what I said).

Lighter, what you said:

I think just letting negative or undesirable thoughts go by, without giving them any energy, is part of a healthy ego.

Everyone must experience negative thoughts, but some people choose not to focus on them. 

They move on, as a matter of habit.

sounds too much like the emotional bloodsuckers to me. I think it depends on what you mean by negative thoughts. If I think to myself "I really screwed up there" I don't want to move on, I want to learn not to screw up like that again. But there are negative thoughts that do no good at all (I remember them)...but: if I hadn't have thought about the thoughts, surely they'd still be there?
You know, I've probably got caught up in something here that has zero to do with what's being talked about. I'm thinking too much about a (sad, frustrating) 3D reality and it's so far away from 'healthy' that it's affecting my focus. Hmmmmm. I need to change my focus; see you later.

[lighter]

Guest:

I understand the struggle to determine what's worrying and hanging on to negative thoughts, and what's productive, relationship building energy.

Lighter

[ann3]

Listening to the voice within.

In retrospect, if I were to pinpoint just one thing that made me prey to Ns & diminished my sense of self, it was my failure to listen to the voice within.  This above all, to thine own self be true.