Becoming free?

[Hopalong]

Tupp, thank you for this:

I was just so scared.  But now I feel angry and I think that's a better emotion, in some ways, it gives you an energy whereas I think fear can block your energy or take it away?  It's not a scary anger where I feel out of control, more a slow, steady one where I feel like I can get it out of my system and move past it. 

It's on a totally different subject but I've been feeling a lot of fear. Under that, I'm really angry, but at myself. I hope there's a way to have anger at self create energy.

love,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Thanks very much for your concern about how I'm doing, Penny! It feels good to know I rate that high with you. You're doing some really serious, heavy lifting in your own work, yet you spared a thought for me. Thanks again!

And also, thanks for the anger comment. It's a timely reminder for me in my own situation. I learned early on, that "anger is my friend"... mostly because this kind of anger is usually the response to boundary violations or intrusions. I really didn't have any boundaries when I was at the point in the work, where you are... but I was trying to learn as quickly as I could where mine were. I went a little overboard - overcompensated in the other direction - and found out that wasn't the "just right" I was looking for either. It was pretty lonely there. I think different people have different needs for space within those boundaries... and when someone assumes that everyone's boundaries should be where their's are... well, we have discomfort or conflict.

Hopsy - I won't pry, but I gotta tell ya that right after guilt, I find anger at myself to be on the top 10 list of most useless emotions going. At least, right now, that is!

[Hopalong]

Ya, me too, PR.

I am generally as mild-mannered as Caspar the Milquetoast, I mean Friendly Ghost.
(He was the only cartoon character I loved as a kid, as he was the only one I remember as being gentle and friendly...I was/am such a wuss. I couldn't enjoy things like the Roadrunner or Bugs, since they were always hurting each other.)

Really, when I look back, I was one overwhelmingly sensitive kid. I didn't try to be that way, it was just how I was made. I don't know how I survived. Well, I do...books. I read fiction with near desperation. Novels were the one thing that would take me away from the bullying at school, and at home with my brother.

Books were my friends. Who ever got angry at a book? And, the anger I saw in books was something I was amazed by, but never hurt by.

I am feeling an undercurrent of anger at myself recently because my own soft-headedness meant that for all the lyrical stuff, poetry, compassionate things I could create or contribute to...I didn't learn some of the common sense practicality I needed to learn. And I'm learning, late, and determined. But scared.

I am trying, so hard. Just weary.

xo
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

I understand weary, Hops.... especially this kind. It's what I was telling GS - it's not our fault (maybe it's no one's fault) - that we didn't learn or get what we needed as children.

And you're doing pretty good, I think... in putting one foot in front of the other despite being scared. I can relate to that, too. Fortunately for you - you're pretty much past having to deal with your Bro; I'm on the edge of seeing just how far one can push an N toward the "middle ground" of compromise on some financial business. As you know, this "confronting the lion in it's den" action tends to add a mask layer over the rest of life... like a fuzzy filter that dims and dampens all the OTHER things in reality that could balance the task at hand and provide some relief/comfort.... with only the center of the picture, in terrible, stomach-wrenching focus.

Well, I need all those things in the rest of life that get fuzzed out - the flowers, the sun, driving with the top down - in order to even get my brain working properly, to be able to feel centered in myself and not always running for cover/hiding/reacting out of anger.... or even turning that anger unfairly at myself. I am completely, to-the-bone-weary of always being the one who "gives way" in any dispute with my Bro... and I've let it go hoping that he would come to his senses, in time. He hasn't and now I have no choice except to say: this is what I need, I need it now, and you can't tell me what to do with my share of the 50-50 resources at hand. To your NO - here is my YES, and here are the facts - whether you understand them or not; whether you understand the reality of them and the consequences of your NO. Because you don't have the final say... you don't have real control... so here are your options for a compromise and they will benefit you, as well.

Makes my legs go all jello-y. Makes me hyperventilate. Keeps me talking to Twiggy laying awake at night... running the same old crap through my head one more time, hoping I find something I missed before. NOPE - I got it the first time... so what this is, is precisely my inner child's fear of breaking that taboo of looking out for me, enforcing a boundary about "control" with my bro, and caregiving my self - instead of caretaking him to protect the world from his inner monster. My poor child quivers at the thought of this, loses her connection to the physical reality all around her, can't think in a linear fashion - except to run the same old tapes over & over again... which will progressively put her - and me - in an overwrought state of anxiety and stress. I don't function there.

I ain't goin' there again. Life happens - and even when it involves Ns - it's absolutely the most important thing to remember that their idea of their own power and control.... IS AN ILLUSION. Follow that up, with a heavy daily dose of detoxifying mantras: that even if they think it is "all about them".... in reality - it's only my allowing it to be all about them (the fear of speaking up and the outrage at their illness and the anger at myself for not being superwoman & perfect & heading him off at the pass) that keeps returning me the same exact results of trying to deal with them. They live in a delusion world that doesn't have any other people in it that matter... like I described about fuzzy filters, their focus is only on them. I don't live there now and I won't go back there again...

but I will, if I don't draw a line in the sand... say "time's up" - decide now... and be absolutely ready to back up my request with facts, figures, blessings from others... and an introduction to the reality of what 50-50 ownership means in regards to control.... and it's NOT what he thinks it is!! He sees this only in terms of 1 winner/1 loser... he doesn't have any experience of what win-win is... nor the functional fundamentals of compromise. His "fairness" only benefits him.

Twiggy needs to hear me loud and clear - that this is the best way to protect her and that in reality, there is no place safe from the misery and pain of giving away control of what is mine.... UNLESS, one stands up for oneself in a reasonable, fair manner. And I know she can do it; I know what she's made of - steel - but my bro doesn't know this or has forgotten. And yes, Hops - I have been seen as "overly sensitive" as a child too and retreated to the safe distance of books between me and emotions. But I truly believe that claiming those emotions as me... and then identifying what my self-interest is, based on that emotional intelligence (we do think with feelings... I want/don't want)... and developing and carrying out a strategy to protect that self interest would prove a point about overly sensitive not being the same as "weak", "no boundaries", malleable, a doormat... a puppet of someone's else wants projected on me.

Au contraire... real strength comes from being able to be that sensitive and to balance that with common sense, fairness, and the "common good". Amber's "middle path"... I guess you could call it. (Why do I all of sudden feel like a Hobbit?)

Anyhoo... hang in there!! It will be OK - because you care about the right things. We've interrupted Penny's train of thought... apologies Penny!! (Sometimes I just get carried away... and this has been bubbling up like witch's brew for some days now.)

[Hopalong]

Thanks, PR.

I'm glad you're engaged by asserting yourself with your brother and hope it's not taking too much out of you.

Will update more on me on the other thread...

xo
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Hey Phoenix, don't apologise, what you described there is exactly what I have been through with my family.

I've been talking to my T about this kind of thing - this was when she first explained to me how your child is the one responding to a situation with absolute fear and panic, even though the reality is you are safe and, as an adult, you can deal with what is going on.  It's your child that is terrified and snaps into survival mode and that's stronger than your adult response to someone who is yelling at you down the phone - you can just hang up.  It's taken me ages to get my head around that and I still struggle with it a bit but I think it's the same kind of thing that you are talking about?  I don't think I could have any kind of contact with my family because I would just find it too difficult to have to keep dealing with them and my own very frightened reactions.  I've found it so much easier to cut them out completely.  Trouble was I cut everyone out and have been quite reclusive over the last couple of years.  That's changing though, I'm starting to interact with the world a little bit more and to have faith that not everyone is out to get me and that, if they are, the adult in me can deal with that (thank Lord for the therapist!).  And yes, I do rate you highly, you (and many others on the board) have helped me so much! 

Hopsie, you describe a childhood just like mine and it's funny that Phoenix had the same.  I did nothing but read, I read endlessly, constantly, anything I could get my hands on.  I remember so vividly reading Enid Blyton books as a very young child, sitting on my bed wishing I had friends like that and could go off to solve mysteries and have wild adventures.  I think reading is a magical escape, and such a source of knowledge and inspiration as well.  And I just wanted to echo what Phoenix said; no-one taught you good skills for life.  I think people who've been brought up in abusive households have to put so much effort into getting through the day that it leaves little time for learning other skills - even if there were someone there to teach them to you.  My mother's lessons about money were spend, spend, spend.  Image is all important, nothing else matters.  Through an enforced low income in my thirties, I've learnt how to budget and be thrifty.  I've learnt how to make good meals cheaply, how to stretch a few pounds out into something meaningful, how to save for things, how few of the material things we are all encouraged to buy and unnecessary and, through all of you on here, not to buy cheap stuff in charity shops just because it's cheap!  I can enjoy chatting with my son or reading with him, or just watching a film with him - my mum couldn't enjoy anything unless she was drunk.  So I don't think you should be angry at yourself - you learnt how to survive and that is really what it's all about.  And everything you have learnt you've taught yourself, which is something you should be really proud of.  I'm just thinking through posts you've made on here - off the top of my head I can think of you talking about how you've managed the situation with your daughter, how you got through a horrible time with your brother, you dealt with your mum's care for a long, long time and handled your own feelings about the situation as well.  You mentioned a book about money to me and it was you, if I remember rightly, who urged me to clear out all my junk and stop hording.  You've got a difficult boss that you manage at work, you dabbled with a bit of dating, you've got health problems of your own that you are managing and the yard sale situation which you bravely said you would deal with, somehow.  You sound to me like a wise woman, Hops!  And you've done all of that on your own, which I think is pretty incredible.  Pat on the back time, I think xxx

[Hopalong]

Thank you, Tupp. You've made me cry.
(In a good way).

xxoo
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

... how your child is the one responding to a situation with absolute fear and panic, even though the reality is you are safe and, as an adult, you can deal with what is going on.

Hi Penny - what you wrote so simply and clearly sums up the predicament I've been working on, within myself. I was totally mystified by the fact that I was so competent, calm and efficient in my working life and personality (except for my Nboss)... yet dealing with personal relationships - particularly my family - that was such a friggin' mess.

For me, the way to healing some of that, was to mother myself - that inner chld - on my own. And then, to open up the gate in my solid steel, barbed-wire topped boundaries, and allow others to also help calm & comfort that poor traumatized child. I experienced both kinds of trauma - the short, intense, physical life or death kind - and the slow, drip-drip-drip, gradual realization of how I was used, abused and didn't matter - that in the hierarchy of the FOO I'd been abandoned as a member of value. Usefulness - yes; value - no.

Over time, I began to intuitively sense that my adult self and the child were merging; my T suggested that the child self was growing up... sort of the same thing. I also experienced a few moments of awareness where I could hear my child speaking, instead of my usual self... the voice is actually different - go figure. Those are spooky moments and certain kinds of stress can bring them out.... usually breaking taboos about feeling happy, expressing that or standing up for myself. I still sometimes have to take a "time out" from whatever is going on and have a little chat with that child - either she's really angry; really hurt; or really scared... and she's about to have one the tantrums or meltdowns that I'm famous for... but that are now more rare.

With my bro - it's almost like my child disagrees with me about how I'm dealing with him. Her way isn't feasible and it's very angry and full of old resentments about being forced to mother him, care for him... because my mother couldn't... and he was the golden child... and still, at 52, not a grown up person. Oh yes - he also has these old resentments and unfair judgements about me, too and I have to occasionally remind him forcefully - that I am not that person anymore. He hasn't changed behaviors, but I have. It's clear my way of dealing with him, isn't satisfying my child's need for fairness and justice either. So, the search is on for "something different" in the way of compromise between myself and my SELF... before I even attempt to propose or work on anything else with my bro. Hence, my babbling about self-interest and fairness, ya know?

I would LOVE to have an option where I didn't have to deal with him, but we've both inherited 50% of a business - neither has an advantage nor control - and the structure of this, is one of the last acts of the one of the main actors in my inner child's trauma. I've chosen to see this - as much as I possible can - as an opportunity to change the status quo of the old FOO roles and assert myself - in a fair and just manner. It's as if I'm being asked to prove myself capable of rising above reacting to the passive-aggressive, subtly insane and paranoid abuse that exists in my bioNic mom and bro. To free myself, from thinking that this kind of thing can control me, affect how I feel about myself and my actions, where my Dad just ran away instead.

I've been keeping up with your posts Penny - here and elsewhere - and it's amazing to me how quickly you're healing; how much progress you've made in only a few months of working. It took me years to make that kind of progress.... and I am still having to revisit my old lessons and remind myself and seek out reassurance and validation before I'll allow myself to trust my own judgement and instincts. I'm way better than before, though!

Big hugs to you...

[Twoapenny]

Hops, I know what you mean about good crying ((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))))))))  My T is always saying she wishes I could see myself as I am, rather than as my mother made me think I am.  I bet the same applies to everyone on this board.  We're all doing incredible things but being made to think we just aren't good enough. (((((Hops)))))))))) xxx

Phoenix, I can't imagine how hard it is having to have such dealings with someone you really don't want to be around!  I think my lack of contact with my family has helped me so much, I can't imagine how hard it would have been if I'd had to have kept in contact with them for some reason or another.

I do feel like things are moving quickly but........(there's always a but!)  I haven't done masses on the sexual abuse yet and I think that's going to really upset the apple cart.  It's next on my list of things to tackle.  I've been writing bits down to take in to my next session and I can feel it making me bubble up and start spinning.  But I'm going to do it.  I need to get through it and get past it.  I've met a nice guy.  I've no idea whether anything will come of it or not, or whether it will be a friendship or a romance, but either way I'd like to do this 'normally' - having normal feelings rather than reactions based on things that happened years ago.  So I'm trying to see it all as a learning curve.  I've known this guy for a long time but we lost touch for about ten years.  He knows what happened when I was young - not in detail but he knows things were bad.  He also lives a long way away - about three hours in the car - which for me is a good thing because I feel like I can do things a little bit at a time and just find my feet a bit.  If he lived round the corner I'd be rushing in - either towards him or away from him!  But this way I have to take my time and at least be realistic about what is going on.  I've also got my therapy sessions to use to keep my head straight and I like that idea of being able to go in and say "This is what I'm thinking" and talk it through with someone who I trust will be giving me clear, middle of the road advice (unlike my friends who generally just want guys who will pay for everything, regardless of what their personalities are like!).  Hope you are doing okay xx

[sKePTiKal]

Absolutely nothing wrong with "going slow" - both with the new man and where you are in T. Pacing yourself might make the difference between really "getting there" - and just a temporary reprieve.

Sounds to me like you're head is on straight - so trust yourself! You deserve to.

[Twoapenny]

Thanks, Phoenix

I am slowly learning that it's okay to do things slowly!  I always used to be in a huge rush.  I was forever on to the next thing, trying to predict (force) the outcome - maybe it's all about trying to control everything?  Now I'm slowly learning it's alright not to know what the end result will be, just to experience it, see what you learn from it, take it really slowly - if it takes ten years, so what?  It's hard though, those old beliefs are so strong!  And they pop in and I have to really make myself push them out again and tell myself it's okay, this is how normal people are - even over things like couples being polite to one another.  It used to really freak me out, I just wasn't used to it.  But it's coming slowly so I am hoping things are changing for the better - even if it is taking ages!!!

[sKePTiKal]

12 years ago, my hubs asked me this question:

which is more important, the destination or the journey?

He wishes he'd copyrighted it!! It's now a mainstream-ism... and I think it was already part of the collective consciousness; but it's a really important question and we revisit it often.

Of course, zen's viewpoint is that it's all journey and there is no destination - so you'd better enjoy travelling! LOL...

[Twoapenny]

Yep, it's a good question!  I think my views have changed over time - maybe through learning more, maybe through just getting older, or perhaps both?

I had a very strong, vivid inner child 'thing' last night, different to anything that I've experienced before.  I felt like she was part of me but individual to me as well, which hasn't happened before.  She was shaking and crying, absolutely terrified that he was coming.  She could hear him on the landing and smell his aftershave.  Oddly another part of me was very calm and not at all scared, able to reassure and comfort her.  I didn't get much sleep at all and today feel completely 'adult' and myself.  It was very strange, before I've sort of felt I'm reacting in a childlike way and kind of worked from that basis but this was much stronger and more direct.  I guess this is a good sign, in some ways?

[sKePTiKal]

Yes, indeed - a good sign!

Being able to comfort her the way she needs to be comforted is the "relationship" between you and little Penny. You're now on the "same team" watching out for each other!