Author Topic: Becoming free?  (Read 4775 times)

Twoapenny

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Becoming free?
« on: March 29, 2011, 08:14:20 AM »
Hello everyone, I just thought I would share this with you :)

I saw my mum this morning.  I felt nothing.  Not in a numb, disassociated way, not in a "oh there she is, I'll ignore her" way, but just a kind of "there's a lady in a car" way.  I didn't feel negatively affected.  After she drove by and I'd realised it was her I just started laughing.  I suddenly felt free.  I don't feel bad things towards her.  I don't feel like she's a big deal.  She was just there, and it didn't feel like a problem.  She didn't do anything.  In the past she'd wave, shout, scream, swerve the car across the road or beep the horn.  But she did nothing.  Maybe she's finally realised what she does has no effect any more?

I've seen her and my step-dad a couple of times in the last couple of months and not had any adverse reactions.  The sight of my step-dad used to be enough to leave me unable to breathe and vomitting.  But lately it's not been an issue.  So maybe, finally, I'm starting to be free of them?

I know things come and go in waves.  I've had plenty of times in the past when I've felt 'cured' for a time, and then it's all crashed back down again.  So maybe this is another one of those times.  Maybe it's more permanent?  Either way I am going to enjoy it for the time being.

Just thought I would share it, I hope it shows there is light at the end of the tunnel - albeit flickering at times! :) xx

sKePTiKal

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2011, 08:51:11 AM »
LOL!! That's VERY good progress Penny...


But, when "she'd wave, shout, scream, swerve the car across the road or beep the horn" - when she DOES do this, and you still are calm, cool & collected... then you really are forever free. I think you're almost there (and maybe are closer than either of us know!)

((((((((((((((((((((Penny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

And a long Snoopy-Happy-Dance to you...
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 11:38:33 AM »
That was a wonderful post to read, Tupp: )

Lighter

SilverLining

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 01:43:53 PM »
Hi Penny.  I think it's good progress and have had a few of those experiences myself in the past couple of years.    It's like finally perceiving the parents  as (crazy) "others" who really don't have the power to ruin my experience, if I don't let them.  It feels strange at first, but also very freeing.  Sure there can be setbacks, in a 2 steps forward one step back kind of way, but overall I believe it's very positive.


BonesMS

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2011, 09:13:02 AM »
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))

Happy Snoopy Dance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   :D

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Twoapenny

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2011, 02:50:32 AM »
Lol, Phoenix, I hadn't thought of that!  Might go and hang around outside her house to see if I can provoke a reaction ;)  Only kidding :)  Thanks Lighter, Bones, Silver for your good wishes :)

Have also been practising boundaries!  My sister came round yesterday - now I still struggle a bit with telling people it's not convenient or getting rid of them quickly - need to work on that - but I did chat with her without asking about or getting involved in any of her divorce/kids/financial problems.  Felt a bit strange and I did literally bite my tongue at one point but was glad I managed it.  Now just learn how to deal with unwanted interuptions during the day :)

Thanks all :) xx

Hopalong

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2011, 06:26:14 AM »
Tupp, that is wonderful.

So amazing to experience your own under-reactivity.

I wonder if that's what it's like to heal from ptsd.

xx
Hops
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Twoapenny

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2011, 07:51:08 AM »
Hops, I don't know, maybe?  When your reactions/interactions are more 'normal' - by that I mean in proportion to what has just occured rather than being in proportion to some horrible trauma in the past - maybe that's the point at which the PTSD is kind of being laid to rest?  I did think maybe I'd have a delayed reaction but still nothing.  Next door's been yelling at her kids again - that hasn't triggered anything other than what I would suppose most people would feel - "dear Lord, those poor children, I wish that woman would learn how to talk to them".  At times in the past I've had terrible emotional reactions to hearing her shout.  Now it just seems not so much.

I also realised a few days ago that I'd visited a couple of friends last week - old friends that I hadn't seen for ages - and I wasn't doing that whole triple voice thing - you know when you're interacting with them but also hearing the old criticisms about how you sit, stand, talk, eat, drink your tea etc etc, as well as your new "I'm an adult.  It's okay to sit on the sofa.  I don't have to justify the way I speak" and so on, you know how tiring it is?  I only realised a few days later that I'd just sat, chatted, had a bit of a laugh and then gone home again - like other people do!  I didn't anyalyse the whole thing or worry about what they'd be saying about me after I left.  And I didn't get the sort of sexual response to being around men that I usually do.  I think the abuse left me a bit hard wired to see myself in terms of someone to have sex with rather than as a person?  That whole area I think I still need to do quite a bit of work on, I'm seeing my T later so I'm going to chat to her about it.  Usually with men I see myself only in terms of whether or not they would fancy me.  So around friends husbands/boyfriends I constantly worry that they will think I'm after their blokes and that their husbands will think I fancy them.  Around single men I think that if I speak to them they will think they can have sex with me and it really affects my behaviour around them - what I wear, how I present myself, how I feel and so on, because I don't want anyone to think they can touch me.  But I wasn't doing all that, I just chatted and when it was time to go I didn't feel obliged to kiss them/hug them or anything like that.  I feel comfortable with one, uncomfortable with the other.  So I hugged the comfortable one and didn't hug the uncomfortable one!  Which felt okay.  But I think that's my next big thing to work on.

Sorry I have wandered off the point a bit!  Hope things are okay in HopsieWorld :) xx

sKePTiKal

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2011, 09:03:53 AM »
Hey, Penny....

I hope you share some more about how you feel and react around men. I have issues here, as well.

I've always felt more comfortable in groups of men, versus women. But at the same time, I go way overboard to compete and "prove" myself capable of competing with them... to the point sometimes, where I'll unconsciously shred egos with very sharp claws. It's a remnant of how my mom objectivized all men... lumped them into a group... stereotyped... and didn't accept that they were individual people with feelings too. And there's an aspect of power-struggle, too. It's kinda hilarious, now that I have white hair and my extra 20 "grandma" pounds... but it's also kinda pathetic. Jeez, ya know? I shouldn't have prove anything to anyone any more.

When I was younger, I had the same idea that you described about men, sexually speaking. I could become extremely uncomfortable in situations, at the drop of a hat because of it. I didn't have any useful skills for dealing with it. At some point, I realized that this was all coming up in me... something in me was responding this way - it wasn't being imposed from outside. So, OK I could own that. I do like men and I am a sexual being. I recently had one of these "frozen moments in time" when I realized what I was feeling - and it was so electric, scary and inappropriate - that it scared me to death! And then... thankfully.... sanity returned and I realized I was "translating" or interpreting a deep emotional response into something physical again. I don't think I scared him, as much as I scared myself... but there have been times when that has happened! LOL....

a big shift happened somewhere along the way, when I realized it was me thinking about, obsessing on the sex angle... and other people weren't necessarily paying attention to that wavelength. (Kind of a relief...) And the bigger shift was when I realized I was mixing up emotional - physical responses... getting them confused.
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Twoapenny

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2011, 02:18:44 PM »
Phoenix, yes, I hear you!  Our house was very odd when I was young.  My mum and dad - real dad - had separate bedrooms from when I was about five or six.  I never saw them even sitting on the sofa together, let alone touching or kissing.  My dad was very old fashioned - I never saw him in anything other than trousers and a shirt.  The only flesh he ever showed were his hands and face.  I never saw or heard him use the bathroom, or saw him in pyjamas or a dressing grown.  In fact, that isn't strictly true, the one time I saw him in his dressing gown was when he was in the hospital dying - and even then he wouldn't let us go in until he'd got up and put his dressing gown and slippers on over his pyjamas.

My mum's relationship with my step-dad was entirely sexual.  They had very loud, very frequent sex when they first got together, for about the first six months.  My step-dad constantly walked around in the nude, with an erection.  He made frequent comments about sex and women in general.  He used to take us to the video shop and hire porn whilst we browsed the children's section and he brought porn magazines into the house.  He used to buy my mum sexy underwear which she then used to give to me - weird.  They had books about sex on the bookcase in the hall and it was just in your face the whole time - both literally and metaphorically!  My sister told me once that they'd had sex on the floor in the front room while she was sleeping on the sofa - the noise woke her up.  She'd have been about ten at the time, maybe even younger.

So I guess they were like male versions of the virgin/whore stereoptype?  My dad was completely sexless almost - there was nothing about him that was anything other than 'dad' like.  My step dad was like a rutting elephant - his whole world revolved around it and because of that, ours did too.  I found it impossible to say no to a man who wanted sex, regardless of whether or not I wanted to.  Until I was in my late twenties I had never had sex sober.  After I got pregnant with my son I stopped drinking - and then found sex was a real problem, and so attempted it less and less.  I've never had what I'd call healthy sex - two people, on an equal footing, playing an equal part in something that is loving and pleasurable.  I've never felt comfortable around men.  I'm always anticipating them making a move, which of course will be my fault.  If/when they don't, it's because I'm too fat, too ugly, too lazy, too boring, too demanding, etc etc.  There's something wrong with me because I'm not being what they want and that's why they don't want me.  So I always have this act thing going on - trying to be friendly without being too friendly, responding to what they do without thinking about how it makes me feel, completely unable to just see a man as a man - just chat, share some time, without it meaning 'something' or it being some sort of a big deal.  I think that's what I want to work on next - getting past all that c**p, seeing men, as you say, as individuals - good points, bad points but real and in the here and now.  Does any of that make sense??  Lol!

Had a good session with my T today.  She's great.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2011, 09:24:49 AM »
Yes, it does make sense Penny.

In a way, I think this is a form of boundary violation for children. I don't know that there's any good criteria of what's appropriate at different ages either. It might even vary from child to child. I'm not a prude by any means... and I do realize that even very young children are at least sensual creatures, if not quite sexual... but I think the amount of exposure you're talking about could be overwhelming to a child, who is in need of clear examples of how people behave... control themselves (or not)... fulfill their roles, etc.

It certainly doesn't do much to teach a child about public and private boundaries, does it?
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Twoapenny

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2011, 04:34:31 AM »
Hi Phoenix,

I wonder if it's also to do with where you come in the hierarchy, as a child?  I mean in terms of what's important?  In our home a lot of other things took precedence over us - sex, alcohol, housework, money, the dogs, what both adults wanted/had etc.  We didn't really feature; our views weren't welcomed or considered, any attempt to gain attention was deemd to be selfish.  When I look back I feel like I was gagged my whole life.  There was just no room to speak, ever, at any time.

I think you're right when you say it varies from child to child - maybe that's why it's so difficult when adults don't recognise their children as individuals?  I guess there's a line between affection and sexual activity?  Maybe it's what goes on behind it that matters - if it's loving, caring, attentive perhaps that doesn't have such an adverse effect as something that is much more basic and almost animalistic in it's nature?  With my step-dad it felt like it was very much about control - almost like he was marking his territory - this is my house (which of course it wasn't, it was my mums), I'll do what I like, when I like and f you.  My mum had been on her own for two years and had run the house, decorated, done DIY, managed the money, etc etc.  He moved in and suddenly she was nothing more than this sort of concubine and she just sat simpering and let that happen.  So maybe it's what's behind it?  Maybe you can sense that need to control in people - which is scary - and that acceptance of control - which is equally scary - and maybe that's the real problem, rather than the actual activity itself?

It's a lot to think about!  Interestingly I went out with a friend yesterday and met her new chap.  Felt very uncomfortable all day, even though he was a very nice chap and did nothing at all to make me feel that way.  He was quite big build - I think perhaps I find that intimidating?  I always have a terror that if I am nice to a man his partner will think I'm after him?  Apart from both my mum and step-dad having affairs - maybe it springs from that - I also remember a time when I was pregnant with my son and my cousin's husband stepped forward to say hello and kiss me on the cheek.  My mum shrieked "Don't get too close to her, P, she's looking for a father for that baby".  It was mortifying - for him as well as me, and the other people standing in the group who all suddenly downed their drinks and went off to the bar to get more.  I don't blame them!  I'd have done the same if I could.  Maybe that's got something to do with it as well.

I hope things are going okay with you at the minute xxxxx

sKePTiKal

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2011, 10:35:44 AM »
Hi Penny... I'm OK, doing all right.

Well, a few days ago I wouldn't have said so, being in the midst of a serious reality-challenging panic attack... but I survived this one too and things are much calmer, saner, and not nearly as dire as they seemed on Friday!  Know what I mean?  :D   :LOL:

You ought to read, what I just posted for Gaining Strength today on the "childhood wounding and healing" thread. Some of your observations kinda tie in to the same thing we're talking about over there... especially what you were saying about where children ranked in importance in your FOO household. At least the processes in my allegory are applicable... the actual subject matter for you is different... just swap out control for sex... oh WAIT... I forgot that for some people... control and sex are the same very thing. Yeah - go read that...

And maybe my little allegory of "mirrors" over there, will help you get to an explanation about the tie in between your level of comfort now with men and the things you've experienced at the hands of your mum and stepdad. It's pretty normal to have some doubt about whether you're now "programmed" to be like them... having grown up in that environment. Ain't necessarily SO... really, it isn't! Looks like, in reality... you might've gone a bit far to the other extreme... to protect yourself from even the implication or appearance, that you're anything like that. Your father wasn't like that - and that's very important to you - the why and the difference, that is... what he offered you, versus the new family reality later on. Sex doesn't have to involve love, respect... caring. Sometimes, love - respect - caring are shown via sex. It can be very confusing "in the moment" to know exactly what's going on. Especially for people who've gone through abusive situations involving sex.

You posted a great example of this:

It's so nice of your mum, to project her own view of HER self-interest and fairness... via the comment about looking for a father... onto you. I hope she wasn't trying to be funny - because it's pretty obvious that everyone there felt uncomfortable about how she exposed herself - through this remark. It's just as much lobbing a turd into the party, as it would be, if she stripped down naked right then and there... and of course, she "assigned" this motivation to you, instead of herself... because it's what she would do in your position. I'd have been mortified too and have really, really wanted to slap her... though I probably would've fled the scene, instead.

[... and of course - the fact that the actual circumstances were merely socially polite and acceptable behavior, between you and P, other than something "about her", reflecting on her ... and that you in fact ARE different than she is, and have different values and motivations, ... simply doesn't exist in her reality. There's a whole lot going on in this one little story... you might be able to work with it and gain some major puzzle pieces of your "whole picture" from it.]
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Hopalong

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2011, 12:55:11 PM »
Tupp,

Your stepfather was being sexually predatory and exploitative whether he laid a finger on your or not, imo.
On some level he was getting off on parading naked (and erect) in front of two little girls. I find that ... evil.

Your mother's indifference to how the whole rutting-porn atmosphere would affect her kids...she was UNFIT.

Imo.

Your newly won indifference and under-reactivity to them now is the beauty and power of healing -- you inspire me to think that if one just keeps with it, one DOES get stronger.

So impressed and pleased for you.

xo

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: Becoming free?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2011, 02:32:35 AM »
Hops, I agree with you entirely.  I read a book years ago called 'Toxic Parents'.  I kept it hidden at home and read it in secret because I felt so wrong daring to suggest there was something wrong with my family.  But it was really helpful and one example stuck in my head.  A therapist is discussing her client's relationship with her family and things that happened when she was young.  The client kept defending her parents and making excuses/allowances for them (with regard to the things they had done to her).   The therapist asked the client if she would do those things to her own child.  The lady immediately replied "No way!"  The therapist asked her why it was okay for her parents to do it then, if she wouldn't.  And of course the poor lady got really uncomfortable, it was her lightbulb moment where she really had to see her parents in a 'real' way and start accepting that what they did to her was wrong.

I'm going around the houses here, but my point is, that is the rule of thumb I go by now.  If I would do the same to my son then it was okay, but so much of what they did I wouldn't tolerate for a minute around my boy.  And the idea of some man moving in without a bye or leave, parading around with his willy out, taking my son with him while he goes to choose porn?  My God, I'd rip him apart.  I wouldn't tolerate that in my house for five minutes, not a hint of it.  So I agree with you - neither of them were fit parents.  As for my indifference towards them - well it's waning a little at the minute because I'm writing a lot in my journal about what he did to me and it's making me really angry.  So I'm not as indifferent to it yet as I thought I was!  But it still feels like progress.  A year ago writing about him would make me vomit and disassociate.  I was just so scared.  But now I feel angry and I think that's a better emotion, in some ways, it gives you an energy whereas I think fear can block your energy or take it away?  It's not a scary anger where I feel out of control, more a slow, steady one where I feel like I can get it out of my system and move past it.  We'll see what happens, though!  Thank you ((((((((((((((((((((Hopsie))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Phoenix, yes, I completely see what you're saying.  My mum's view has always been that any man is better than no man.  I didn't want just any man, though, I wanted (want) a good man who will treat me well and respect and care for my son - not someone who wants to control me.  I think she mixes control up with love?  She always used to say to me that her husband was jealous of us (children) being around her because he loved her so much he couldn't bear to share her.  She saw that as a good thing?????????  And you are right, the whole situation was completely inappropriate, this man is my cousin's husband, we were at their son's Christening (or first birthday, I forget which now), the other people in the group were friends of theirs who I knew from meeting at other famiy gatherings, so apart from the fact I was only twelve weeks pregnant and therefore not showing (so no-one but my cousin and immediate family knew), I wasn't looking for someone (at that point the baby's dad hadn't told me he wouldn't be around so as far as I was aware it was all going to be okay with him) and, as you say, P was just being polite and saying hi, as anyone else would have done.  I think she projects a lot of her own nonsense onto other people.  She's batty!  I will read the posts on the other thread you mention, thank you.  Hope you have a calmer week than you did last week and that things are levelling out a bit. (((((((((Phoenix))))))))))))))))))))))))))