Author Topic: Finally! An answer...  (Read 6636 times)

lighter

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2011, 09:17:18 PM »
I was wondering how your SIL was going to handle BoMom's plan to put SIL in charge of your mother's recovery, without her input, and against the Doc's orders.


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teartracks

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2011, 09:37:05 PM »



PR,

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it's as if I'm self-nominating myself for the job of shaking them out of their delusions (out of habit; my old role...) but I can't quite bring myself to do this ONE MORE TIME...

Good decision.  Good decision!  Keep that veil up.  Take care of you.

tt 


teartracks

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2011, 12:16:16 AM »


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I was wondering how your SIL was going to handle BoMom's plan to put SIL in charge of your mother's recovery, without her input, and against the Doc's orders.

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(MomBro - they're one two headed entity-

I think the doctor mainly wants the assurance that the patient will receive adequate care and that the patient or responsible party sign off to that effect?

tt

sKePTiKal

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2011, 08:41:30 AM »
Hi tt -

There are medicare regulations about how long and under what conditions a patient can remain in the hospital. The doctor can make his recommendations about care after release, and this one was even helpful explaining the reasons for his recommendation - but once the patient is released, his responsibility (and decision-making authority) ends. I continued making his arguments - plus a few of my own; my mom continually blames SIL for the tension and stress she experiences at home and has expressed a wish for years - that she live somewhere else. So I used this little delusion of hers to try to convince her that she'd have more peace & quiet somewhere other than home. I knew my bro would follow her lead - or support whatever passed between them as to her wishes on their closed, little ESP wavelength.

I wasn't surprised when he did just the opposite of what we'd decided, in the hospital. I wasn't even angry. A tad freaked out, maybe, that their joint illnesses have gotten to this level. Afraid of saying or doing anything to represent my own opinion and views; including anger about being kicked aside - completely rejected in my role as daughter/sister; as a rational person willing to negotiate and accommodate others and try to find a win-win solution... this is the old anger of the orginal FOO wounds. Pigs will fly, before anyone in my FOO acknowledges that I have a right to be angry about those wounds.

However, I'm not going to be completely passive in this situation and do nothing. I've already made an incremental move, following up on something business-related that was started a year ago and that bro hasn't made a decision on yet. I am seeking professional advice and considering all my options, while the saga plays out... not being caught up in it, affords me this opportunity to look to my own natural self-interests, because it's clear that those don't even register for MomBro.

Also taking care of myself... finally went & got that massage I've been talking about for a year! Working out in my landscape - planting what I left in hubs' care while I travelled for no reason at all - except perhaps, an expectation on my brother's part, that I'd jump at the chance to interfere, take over, absolving him of responsibility... so I could be at fault & blamed later on. And yeah, you are hearing anger in that... but I finally know what the anger is about:

Mombro are totally immune to anger; especially mine. I feel totally rejected as a sane, rational human being. I know that expressing angry will just get me rediculed and rejected, all the same - and have no effect whatsoever on them. I am angry that I'm being denied my right to be angry, of all things. I feel rendered impotent and voiceless; how I feel doesn't matter to them - I've known that for years. It's a Twiggy temper tantrum, for sure... but so far, she's accepting my explanation that this is what Mombro wants; it's their ego-satisfaction to make me yell and tell them how insane they are so they can laugh at me... and Twiggy knows now, it'll just get her sucked into being involved with them on a level without boundaries again. She's cooperating, so far.

Things between bro & I - businesswise - are fast approaching a stalemate. Even before I travelled, I realized that this isn't going to work; that his P-A and denial of fairness to me is a huge problem (not to mention not even understanding the issues). Others are aware of this, also. I'd already starting seeking my own private advice.... and contemplating putting myself in "Training" - training to be able to do what I need to do to protect myself, take necessary actions in spite of my old PTSD fear & anger, training to be able to have my emotions and remain rationally engaged... and to not let feeling sorry for them, or pity, or even empathy get in the way of taking care of myself... because it simply doesn't register with them that I do care, I'm trying to be fair - the end result is always the same: do something to make me - or SIL - angry, then sit back feel smug and ego-gratification for getting under someone's skin.

People who out & out reject oneself to this extent - and can't be reasoned with - regardless of familial relationship - do they deserve empathy and pity? I would like to think I'm a big enough person to feel this for them; but when I have - it's always been at my own expense. Maybe I'm not that altruistic and enlightened.
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Gaining Strength

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2011, 09:57:24 AM »
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I feel totally rejected as a sane, rational human being. I know that expressing angry will just get me rediculed and rejected, all the same - and have no effect whatsoever on them. I am angry that I'm being denied my right to be angry, of all things. I feel rendered impotent and voiceless; how I feel doesn't matter to them - I've known that for years. It's a Twiggy temper tantrum, for sure... but so far, she's accepting my explanation that this is what Mombro wants; it's their ego-satisfaction to make me yell and tell them how insane they are so they can laugh at me... and Twiggy knows now, it'll just get her sucked into being involved with them on a level without boundaries again.

I relate to this on a deep, deep level.  I could write these words up until the last sentence about countless personal experiences.  But it is the last sentence that is so remarkable to me.  Twiggy's (your) ability to stand on that razor 's edge without falling over is beyond words to me.  It is extraordinary.  It is superhuman.  It really goes to the thing of the arts that is a mythological power to stand apart and not get sucked in, it is part of defeating the wretched creatures encournted on the journey through the forest. Standing in the tension on that edge must not feel so remarkable but looking on from this perspective I see Twiggy standing in the shoes of giants.

Guest

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2011, 11:11:38 AM »
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do they deserve empathy and pity?

Everyone deserves those things, whether they want them or not. Think of it as mercy. But:

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I would like to think I'm a big enough person to feel this for them; but when I have - it's always been at my own expense.

You can feel those things, but you don't necessarily have to act on them.
When you act, you may put yourself in a situation where you have expectations, involvement, investment (perhaps?). This is what creates expense?
Is it possible to act for what you think of a good outcome to a situation, let the chips fall where they may, without causing you expense?

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Maybe I'm not that altruistic and enlightened.
I've given up trying to be good. Content to be human. As for en-lightened, not with my penchant for chocolate...

teartracks

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2011, 11:51:58 AM »




PR, I'm hearing you.  I think your head is in the right place about each and every scenario.  Sometimes when things are complex, it requires us to do one right thing at a time until they add up to one more broken stronghold.  Right mindedness provides the foundation for us to do right things.  I hear gentleness, grace, and mercy in what you say.  At the same time, I hear that these are coming from a well informed, well intentioned heart.   

Have tried to write something that's bouncing around in my head several times about what you and SIL can expect from 'the team' not too far down the road.  It hasn't completely jelled. 

I like your idea of 'taking training' for what lies ahead with bro (and I think you meant about the business).

Ata girl!

tt






sKePTiKal

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2011, 05:34:25 PM »
Ah jeez... you all are great!

Guest - I am trying for that win-win outcome; it means I expose myself to all kinds of character assassination. That's OK, under the circumstances. Bro often doesn't recognize what is really is his own self-interest.

GS - I have to disagree with you (unusually) about how my boundaries are superhuman. They are inevitably, all too human. I refuse to be steamrolled yet again, for fear that someone will make baseless accusations about how I'm crazy, or greedy, or "un-natural" simply because I won't just roll over & take any more abuse. I realize there are consequences to this decision, too. I've looked at them; the alternative is that I give myself reason to not trust myself nor my sanity. I am so TIRED of this - done with this strategy - I must needs try something else.

TT - I hope you can figure some way to say - no matter how it comes out - about what you see happening. I need all the help I can get right now. I am trying to not speak or react or even act, out of anger. I feel quite besieged - again - with not that many resources, except you all here. I am still obsessed with "them"... and trying to drive it into my head, convince myself without a shred of doubt - that I am the only one who cares about my own self in this situation. It's rather tiresome. And I'm not seeing that many ways forward - any real progress - and since we're mid-stream in my bro's life drama... since nothing is definite... there's little real action I can take. I'm feeling totally impotent and helpless... except to validate for myself that I'm not being unfair, greedy, selfish or mean. I can't help the feeling of bitterness; knowing how completely I've been rejected. I'm trying very hard not to let it take root. I don't see any point in that. They truly can't help themselves; I know this. I'm just tired beyond patience and reason of always having to be the one who "takes it" and keeps on pretending there's a relationship here.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Gaining Strength

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2011, 08:07:56 PM »
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I need all the help I can get right now. I am trying to not speak or react or even act, out of anger. I feel quite besieged - again - with not that many resources, except you all here. I am still obsessed with "them"... and trying to drive it into my head, convince myself without a shred of doubt - that I am the only one who cares about my own self in this situation. It's rather tiresome. And I'm not seeing that many ways forward - any real progress - and since we're mid-stream in my bro's life drama... since nothing is definite... there's little real action I can take. I'm feeling totally impotent and helpless... except to validate for myself that I'm not being unfair, greedy, selfish or mean. I can't help the feeling of bitterness; knowing how completely I've been rejected. I'm trying very hard not to let it take root. I don't see any point in that. They truly can't help themselves; I know this. I'm just tired beyond patience and reason of always having to be the one who "takes it" and keeps on pretending there's a relationship here.

Your vision and understanding of the value of not acting out of anger is key here. 
I am not writing out of experience or ability.  I have not gotten there.  These very issues that you delineate in the last couple of posts are such powerful triggers for human beings.  It is human nature to feel impotent and helpless, bitter and rejected.  But your determination to not let these dark forces take root is your power. 

Your struggle here is more with yourself than even with bromom. ( But your ultimate outcome, whether you give into the anger or not,  will make a difference in their reaction.)  It is a process of the ultimate growth. Whether you master this or not - not letting it take root, not acting or speaking in anger - you are growing and shifting quite simply by the work you are doing here.  And I believe but cannot prove, that in the work you are doing, you are also healing.  Your awareness of the forces and behaviors at work on the part of your bromom and yourself is one part of that.  The work you are doing and your determination to not react in anger is another part of it.  (I was reading today in a book by Bikram about his yoga poses in which he writes that doing two sets of his poses accomplished this: 1st set is getting the body and mind familiar with the pose and how your body is responding today, the 2nd set is the opportunity to push forward and grow - not to overdo and get injured but to move forward from the 1st set which gave you information about your body and mind's present ability.)  I think you are doing something like what Bikram describes.  You have a very good ability to identify the new information from bromom and from your own internal reaction (1st set) and then to see where you want to go in reaction and what it might take to get there (2nd set).  You are in your 2nd set.  It is painful but it is progress.  I am wondering out loud if this process is like yoga in yet another way, it is a lifetime practise with continued benefits.  As you make progress you move forward but there is always more progress that can be made.

You are making progress.  But this is very, very painful work.  The alternative (to stop working) is just worse than the pain experienced by pushing forward.

My heart is with you in this process PR.  I hope for you a sense of release and clarity as though a barrier is broken and a new level achieved.  That is my heart felt wish for you.  And in your progress others might find hope, hope for al of us who feel such bitterness and anger in our rejection and hoplessness. 

sKePTiKal

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2011, 07:25:42 AM »
Thank you, GS!

It's odd how I can be so strong and forceful and determined - and yet be held back, because I need another person's understanding, encouragement and reassurance - almost, but not quite permission - because of the old ingrained, programmed habit of never, ever validating and standing up for myself. It is getting better, though - this "encounter with the zombies" has really stressed me out and so I revert back into my own old dysfunctional crap.

What you've written is balm; it soothes the worry... and alleviates the necessity of getting it "just right". I can breathe a little freer now - thank you again!

What you've connected to yoga, reminds me that it's probably time to get to the "training" portion of my processing. I can't be the only one who has found some strange mind-body link that impacts healing strategies. I'll start a new thread for that; looking forward to hearing about other's observations & experiences with a physical approach or compliment to healing. Sat - I finally got the massage I've been promising myself for a year... to help detox my muscles. It only helped some. Sunday, I worked most of the day in the hot humid sun in the yard and repeated the process a little less strenously yesterday, cleaning pollen & leaves off the patio. Hubs asked me last night if I was done abusing myself outside - he feels like I haven't come home yet; that's how preoccupied, ruminating & obsessed I've been. Withdrawn and using up physical energy; pushing the physical limits.

Because I don't want to dump out the yuck on him - force him to wade through the insanity with me - and I think I'm a little afraid he'll say something like - why don't you just let it go and move on? Well, he would be right... but I guess the thing I got from this period of ruminating is a new definition of helplessness. Rather than a form of paralysis and misery... (though it's been far from pleasant)... I've come to understand the whole MomBro situation as something I'll never fully understand; I can accept that I am safer, doing, helping, explaining and "fixing" as little as possible and that this equation has always been, and continues to be - the more I do the worse the toxicity for me; and that by shifting my telescope lens from THEM to ME... there are all kinds of things I can do for me and lots of things I have a right to control... taking care of me first - and looking out for my self-interest. Somebody has to.

It's abundantly clear that MomBro doesn't have a clue about me, what I need, and they flat out, write it on a billboard - DON'T CARE. I think I'm over the idea of expecting "family" to instinctively, naturally, see me as a human being with free will and value. Hell, they don't even acknowledge that I care and try to help them!! I had stalled for a week, about even making the trip - my warning signals were blaring - but Bro appealed to my empathy and I finally agreed. He hasn't thanked me nor apologized for not spending any time with me... why should he? he didn't even respond to my last text, about the necessity of a cordless phone for Mom.

In his reality:

I'm the evil one who tried to put my mom in a nursing home. I stepped right into the villain role - as expected & set up by them - once again. And I suspect - he never said it - that really, Bro thought I was just going to come stay indefinitely and care for my mom... even after I sent him my flight details and repeated over & over that I was leaving Monday. Like I don't have a life here... so once again, it's my fault ya know? Because I won't sacrifice my whole life, being and sanity because he won't step up, be an adult and be rationally responsible. I don't think he ever expected that I would really leave - nor SIL, either.

Because MomBro thinks they can control people through emotional head-games and because they are convinced they have this "special power" and deny people the right to choose for themselves... they're always stunned and react as victims of foul treatment & abuse when we do just walk away, sans anger - sans reproach - simply saving ourselves.

Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2011, 07:50:11 AM »
Hey ((((((((PR))))))))))

This is a very, very tough time for you. I don't think there's anything strange at all about how hard and turbulent it is. Because warts and all, you're about to lose your mother. Anticipatory grief. And the grief, also, is for the TRULY unfinished business...in the sense of you grieving the mothering you needed, and though you rationally have known for a long time she isn't capable of giving it, that really doesn't have anything to do with how your grieving self is feeling about the coming finality of that possibility being forever and permanently closed.

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I am still obsessed with "them"... there's little real action I can take.

These things jumped out at me as true and helpful and honest. The obsession is a signal for self-care (if you haven't had massages in a while, maybe you need one every other week--I've found it can take several before my body begins to accept healing touch or benefit, but then when it does begin, what a relief). But thinking about them? How could you not. Just notice and expand the moments when you let Amber-life, Hubby-life, ocean-life be present with you, show you its own beauty. It's still there and you are not going to lose what's good, dear.

The little action you can take is right SMACK in the face of your ability to take charge, be competent, analyse, assess, and solve. Control. It is both your talent and your fear-place and in this situation, you can't retreat to it.

Ditto everything GS said, so wisely and kindly. It's not mombro who are hurting you, it's Amber.

Fierceness and anger may help in a rigid way, to keep up the boundaries you need. Another thing to think about is that anger always covers either hurt or fear. Or both.

In a safe place, in safe arms, in a safe setting, maybe those need to come out a little every day. Not WITH mombro, but about them, in a caring and tender space where you, Amber, all of you, are accepted and loved unconditionally. Maybe by that I mean, not alone. Have you checked out a kind T in the area? A grief counselor? (You're still grieving over MIL, you know. And here comes another. This is pretty hard stuff. You are strong as hell, of course, but your psyche is still taking some big blows. Recoverable, learnable, healable. But surely if there was any time for a compassionate listener ftf, to supplement your support, it's now.)

There is NO managing end-of-life issues with an Nparent perfectly.

I also think I heard a chime of guilt, in there. Perhaps your artist side is really the only one who can express your love for your mother now. If the pragmatics are going to be all twisted by their own fears, and you can't do anything about how they interpret things if they're determined to see them "wrong"--you can still put paint to paper, and make cards to mail her that come from the true child heart. Your grief and love can reach her, and leave her knowing more than she knows she knows about you.

And that you would never regret. You'll never know how the sheer magic of opening something someone has made for you with their own hand, affects a heart.

with compassion, with a lot of love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2011, 10:23:21 AM »
Hopsy,

I apologize for taking so long to reply. A bunch of P-A rejections of your kind, caring advice and excuses why it wouldn't work or apply to me started coming up in my head - and well, I knew you didn't deserve that. I do appreciate what you've suggested and understand the value of it. And a few sessions talking through the issues again - beginning to end - might just speed things along for me. But I also don't want to be sidetracked into looking again at issues that I've spent years on, simply because a new T doesn't have the background info. There's that P-A "but" again... makes me a butthead, I guess. I've gotta start catching that and stopping it - I really don't need to "qualify" what I want, think or feel anymore - do I?

In fact, your advice is probably responsible for the dawning realization I'm getting, that I've tended to punish myself - via the smoking and worse - for the undeniable fact that I do see things - reality - quite differently than MomBro; that I do want things contrary to their comfort zones; that I AM DIFFERENT than they are... and that I'm beginning to see that some of the misery I've suffered all these years is due to the fact that I've always "rolled over", did as they expected of me, and didn't maintain my boundaries and basic rights as a real human being... I've kept the peace in the family, at my own expense and then helped punish myself further for DARING to want something contrary to the status quo.

That's a little different than what the trustee chalked up to "family disagreements", you know? I guess he doesn't want any of this crap, on him... and I did apologize for asking him to once again play go between, with Bro and I on a real estate issue. But who can blame him? I don't want to be in this situation, with this kind of yuck, either. I have simply not been given a choice - and so far, I haven't asked for, insisted on... anything different. That last part is my fault and I can - and am - doing something about it.

I've been looking into exactly what my rights are - and the one thing I knew I wanted and hoped for - is a possibility. It's daring and bold and would be completely unexpected - yet the situation that exists means that I am legally, morally, within my rights to pursue that action. And this action would also amount to a statement and the reality of NC with MomBro (also something I want - no matter what others think of how "sad" that is...). The action is overtly aggressive and I will be painted with a very negative brush - all the things that will trigger a lot of old tapes and taboos. However, it's been pointed out that at present, I am under a hostile attack - no matter, the P-A nature of it... it is still aggression and hostile, and is harming me.

I've kind of decided I need two threads - one for how I'm gonna put together the plan and toolkit to decide what I will do, how I'll commit to that and stay on track, and rock & roll with the unexpected things that come up... and also the pieces that heal. And then this one, I'll keep as a "bucket" for the old stuff that comes up... separating old me/them from now... a place to do the ranting that I know has it's place; the raw observations and acid sarcasm... the letting off emotional steam.

But I'm gonna go back to a Twiggy - me conversation for a while. We make a good team when faced with this kind of stuff. So I'll still be posting some... but I've gotta take the conversation to a level you all don't need to get on you, either!!  :D I'm on sort of a tight timeline - I don't have the luxury of making a decision whenever it "feels right" or I get around to it.

Thanks for caring, Hops.

((((((())))))))))))
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2011, 11:44:18 AM »
You're welcome (((((((Amber)))))))).
I think I understand how you feel derailed by my Desmond Tutu routine at times.

One T said to me years ago, "You are the only expert on you." Applies to us all.

Sounds like you're going to be a warrior, for a while, to get yourself legally free of your brother.

I can sure relate to needing to be untied from the whole massive dragging stinky fishnet of legal entanglements with toxic family. Those rogue nets just drift through oceans, long after their original purpose. It would be so good for you to swim free.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2011, 05:52:45 PM »
Thank'ee Hops.

I'm feeling a bit exposed posting online about all this. Sure you know what I mean. Bro called - unprompted - and he agreed to one of my requests. I am processing. Thinking. Feeling my way through this.

There are a lot of "wrong" things about getting legally untangled with him. Philosophically, morally, "normally" if he were but normal. But on the other hand - what I'm hearing from objective 3rd parties is that I have that right, should I choose to exercise it. I am being validated in believing that I should exercise it. Thanks to my T - and you all - that I've learned how to sit with these things before acting. I remember also, what a respected tai chi teacher told me: just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you should.

I truly have to beware my own empathy. It's so awful that this is what people will use to seduce you into their sick worlds and manipulate you.. I really have a hard time believing that anyone would stoop so low... even though it's happened to me more than once.

On a way more pleasant note - did you see the royal wedding this morning? I was so happy to see the Queen's happiness (she's been through so much!) and just loved Kate's choice of dress. Exactly perfect... elegant, royal, but simple and strong lines...
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Finally! An answer...
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2011, 06:51:16 PM »
I caught bits of it and enjoyed it despite all my kneejerk objections to class, royalty, aristocracy, etc.

Yup, it was gorgeous.

They seem very sweet, both of them, and I feel sorry for them.

Hellish life, imo.

xo
Hops
PS--I mostly lusted after the bio-fueled Aston Martin! The fuel is made from surplus wine. Probably the only "green" thing happening but it was good to know...I like Prince Charles' passion for the environment and hope the next generation takes it up too.
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."