Getting Professionals Involved?

[Twoapenny]

Hi all,

Has anyone had any luck in getting an outsider involved in their batty family?  I am currently wading through the six years of false allegations made by my mum and she is crazy!!!!!!  I know this site is all about people who have NPD but I think it's only really starting to sink in to me now just how bad she is, although whether it's a personality disorder or the drink that causes it is anyone's guess.

She has woven this incredibly intricate web of lies about me, based around my son's disabilities and my supposed mental health problems.  I have totted up everyone myself and my son have seen in relation to our health problems since he was born and it is around seventy different professionals.  My mother is convinced that I have a mental health problem that only she has been able to spot and that my son has been wrongly diagnosed with a disability she insists he doesn't have, despite there being extensive medical reports relating to it and him being registered disabled since he was four.  I have proved her accusations false every time but she just didn't stop.  It seems from reading through the records that there have been people she's tried it on with who saw through her and disregarded what she claimed.  She's then just kept trying other people until she's found someone that's believed what she says.  The most outrageous one is her telling the police that I have schizophrenia but am very good at hiding it so often come across as completely normal!!!!!!!  She is obviously covering for her husband re the abuse, but both social services and the police have been informed and neither did anything about it.

I am pulling the paperwork together with a view to taking legal action so it can't happen again, but am also wondering if I should aproach her GP?  I know he can't really do anything but I feel like I want someone who is involved with her to actually know what she's been doing and what she's capable of.  I feel so badly for my sister's children, who are caught up in all of this, but my sister is so enmeshed she doesn't see it and has been making the same accusations as my mum.

What do you think?  I kind of feel like if I alert the doctor at least I've done what I can with a view to protecting those children, although to be honest I don't think it will actually do much good.  I also wonder if I'd just be setting myself up for more problems; she convinced the police that my accusations against her and my step-dad were just me being nasty and that they shouldn't be taken seriously so I'm slightly worried about doing anything more as the police accepted what she told them (and obviously what she is trying to do is stop me making any further complaints against them).

Any thoughts?  My head is aching!!!!!

[Gaining Strength]

such a delimna Two Penny.

first of all I hope you are able to do what I am not so good at - keep your cool and keep your focus when you engage any professional whether it be your mother's physician or anyone else. 

I think it  might be helpful to practice (imagine) the conversations ahead of time.  Imagine yourself keeping your cool if you get a response that is not helpful - either a brush off or an argument. 

God knows this is frustrating work ahead of you.

The way I have survived such situations (and I have had more than a few) is that I had great fortune in having a therapist who is in my corner and has stuck upfor me in more than one situation AND my child's doctor has done so as well.  Other than these two - I am on my own and I often have been my own worse enemy by getting frustrated and reacting to my chain being yanked.

Do you have a professional of any sort who you know you can count on?  A doctor, attorney, priest, psychologist ...?

[Hopalong]

((((((((Tupp))))))))))

I hate to say it, but I'm not sure you'll ever completely be able to clean up the poisonous trail your mother's left.

But what I DO know is that you will surely get to a point where you know your worth is real, and reputation is only minimally mattering...

It's you, and your boy, and your bright recovering spirit, that are real and solid. Not gossip, and not the distortions of a mother who never defended you from the sexual predation of a stepfather.

You know. Anyone who becomes a real friend will know.

And the great day will be when -- that's good enough. Really good enough.

She loses when you no longer feel shame, whether or not the toxic paper trail is ever fully cleaned up.

You'll just be on a different path entirely, living your life and smelling the flowers.

love,
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Hi GS,

I am better at keeping my cool than I used to be!  But yes, it is a real problem.  Reading through all of this stuff is soooo difficult - not least because some people are so dumb.  There are really clear procedures to follow regarding child protection in the UK, which include - unsuprisingly - checking allegations before acting on them!  There are times when people have done just that and found them to be false, but oh so many where they've just accepted everything she's said and refused to believe me, despite the fact I am telling the truth and other people were backing me up!  No wonder you end up thinking that you're the crazy one!

My T is great and I see a homeopath as well who oddly enough has turned out to be a great source of support - I say oddly because he is around the same age as my step-dad and normally this would be enough to scare the be-jesus out of me but this guy never has.  I suppose it's the Universe's way of showing me they're not all bad.  I'm seeing my doctor later on this week and I think I might ask her what she thinks about the whole situation.  I think it's that whole aspect of 'voicelessness' that bothers me so much about this.  They live over the road.  I want to go round there and batter my step-dad around, smash my mum's car up (just because I know it means so much more to her than I do) and give my sister a good slap and tell those children if they're ever scared to run across the road to my house and I'll take care of them.  Sometimes the anger is so strong and so overwhelming I feel like I'll explode.  But I can't do any of those things, obviously, and instead I sort of pace around indoors and do housework or gardening to try to get rid of it.  I think it's the unfairness of it all; we have all of these systems in place to protect children and adults from harm and yet when it comes down to it you are basically on your own, which seems to make the systems pretty pointless.  aaaargghh!! Sorry - rambling on.  So frustrated!

Thank you for getting back to me, and I'm sorry to hear you've had similar problems.  I hope things are better for you now?xx

Hopsie, sadly, I think you're right, and I mean that in a good way!  It was made very clear to me a long time ago that the agencies don't like to admit they've got it wrong - so saying, sorry, we listened to the woman who lied to protect a pervert instead of listening to the woman he assaulted isn't high on their list of things they like to do!!  I'm hoping that we've got some sort of legal redress but if we haven't I feel at least I have got my version of events down on paper.  I've been so scared that if I died before my son was able to look after himself that he might be sent to live with her and she'll fill his head with all the crap she's filled mine with.  So I figure if nothing else if I get written up a really long explanation of what she's been doing (it's a hundred pages so far with roughly another hundred of reports and assessments that have been sparked by her claims) it can be used to stop him being sent to live with her and it means if I'm not able to tell him the truth myself someone else can.  I've been so worried that if I die he'll read all the filth she's told people about me and be made to doubt his own memories, like I was about my dad.  I've kind of got to the point where I'm not so fussed about what other people think about me but the thought of him being told that I'm crazy and I neglected him so badly he ended up disabled just breaks my heart because it's just not true, I love him so much!  I can't bear the thought of him not knowing that.

The shame is lessening!  But isn't it odd how you feel shame and they don't?  They're in the wrong but we're the ones that feel bad?  Wow.  Messes with your head!!

Thank you Hopsie ((((((()))))))

[sKePTiKal]

But isn't it odd how you feel shame and they don't?  They're in the wrong but we're the ones that feel bad?  Wow.  Messes with your head!!

Yes, it really messes with your head. They "project"out their shame to anyone with the ability to feel it, I think - because they can't... followed with blame... and the kind of accusations you have documented. Anger & rage, too... sometimes.

As to your project, I also am in the midst of deciding to do something along the same lines. Right now, struggling with concepts of fairness, self-interest, and even questioning my own perception (for the millionth time...). Some of my support believes that reality will dawn on my Bro... very, very soon. And refer to themselves as "glass half full people". If I could come up with at least one or two examples of that kind of turnaround and accepting of reality... I would be tempted to really doubt myself and buy the glass half full vision; I patiently tried for 2 years as it is... however, it's a glass half empty when what I know from long experience to be true, keeps being proven over & over: they aren't going to change - nothing wrong with them, you know? - and instead, they keep tagging me with all kinds of dismissing and discounting comments and behavior.

For a long time, I've aspired to the vision of "they just don't matter anymore" that Hops described so well. I really would like to be able to feel that; be in that place. But, for whatever reason - this last go-round with MomBro - has made me realize that I can't do that UNTIL, I have squared away all the legal stuff in such a way that they can't exert an iota of control over me for any reason. Where I don't have to always be the adult in the room, saying something has to be done about X... being avoided, decisions delayed beyond reason, and even flat held hostage financially. Maybe I can try to revisit Hops' vision of peace, after...

... but the fact remains: no one - absolutely no one, including Hubs - can do what's necessary or make the decisions that will make it possible for me to plainly, in no uncertain terms, state my rights... and reject the attempts at control (passive or overt)... only I can make the decision to stand up for myself - clear the air - and take care of myself. I'm not exactly rushing into this, myself. I had to and still am, taking a step back from that for a bit - breathing - making sure of the result I want (or think I want)... looking at possible other reactions and consequences...

so Tupps - what will her GP be able to do, assuming he recognizes the behaviors in your documentation? (There is always a possibility that you will not be believed - don't know about you, but that's such a big risk for me that, for a long time I've been unwilling to take it. No more.) Where is the hall of justice for emotional abuse? Where are the legal consequences? How can it be proved... in court? About the closest legal issue to what you've endured would be slander & libel that would be addressable in court. She has smeared your reputation, correct? Probably with people in a position to provide/deny you and your son assistance... that might be enough to interest an advocate or lawyer... I don't know. In the US, probably not - unless things were posted on the internet, published, on tv... etc.

But, do me a favor - and keep your documentation. Distill it. Put it into publishable form.... but hold on to it; use it to heal some more first... and decide later on, what you really want to do with it. It was people with stories like yours who came out and told them, that helped inspire and spread the rape support groups; domestic violence shelters and assistance and lobbied for and got some changes to the legal system here - that, while there's still work to be done - those laws (and enforcement) are better than they used to be.

The fact that there's such an extensive papertrail and you've documented it so well is unusual; and probably valuable down the road.

[Hopalong]

I bet he knows you love him.

I bet he always will.

How is he doing?

hugs
Hops

[lighter]

Tupp:

I can't imagine sitting back, and saying nothing while your sf has access to innocent children, without benefit of protection from your sister and mother.

That would make me want to rage and rant too.

It's so unfair that you were preyed on by your sf.  So unfair that sf never suffered a consequence for his actions.

TOO unfair that he'd be allowed to harm your sister's children too.

I don't know how you contain yourself, but it's astonishing you've managed to keep your cool, and not go off half cocked (which would make you look unstable, as we know.)

As for documenting your mother's harmful behavior towards you, and your son...... she's been the main reason you've been denied services for years.

She's likely left enough evidence, with regard to paper trail and written reports, that you could file a suit, and hopefully you will, if it helps.

Get it all together, sort it out, and see what the professionals say.

I don't think I'd contact your mother's doctor, but things may be different here than where you are.

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Hi Phoenix,

You've sort of listed all the things that have been running through my head over the last few days!  The legal aspects are difficult; I've been told I have a case for slander/defamation but would have to fund it myself which I am not able to do.  In all honesty, as much as I despise what they've done, I am also aware that suing them personally would in some way mean communicating with them again and I just don't want them in my life so I think even if I had the cash I probably wouldn't do it.

The damage to my son is where I am bothered and where there may be a legal avenue to pursue.  My concerns about his health were dismissed in favour of the nonsense my mother told people.  The people she made the claims to should have made some basic checks but they didn't.  It kind of follows that he's been treated badly because he's disabled; ie no-one would have believed her if it weren't for the fact he was having problems and his diagnosis was delayed by about two years because of it.  He was denied medical treatment, educational support, respite services etc etc, so, in theory, there is a case there, but again it's about funding and that's what the solicitor is going to look into know, but obviously he needs all the details and to say it's an extensive papertrail is something of understatement!!  It's huge, a really mind blowing amount and the more I read the more bits I find.  The other aspect is that I believe my son suffered a brain injury during the birth.  I'd like to explore compensation via that route but obviously the first line of defence will be the six year history of child abuse allegations that were accepted without question!  What a mess.  But putting all of that aside, I think I needed to prove to myself that it was her, not me, and, as you say, I want to have it like my story, to pass on and help other people if possible.

There's enough proof there to show she's lied repeatedly.  I don't think it would be enough for a doctor to do anything about it but I feel like someone ought to know the truth?  She's surrounded by sycophants; anyone who questions her is ousted so no-one around her knows she did this.  I don't know how he'd respond; he's aware she drinks too much because he's had talks to her about it before.  He's also good friends with my homeopath and I know the homeopath believes me and has been helping me work through all of it.  I was going to ask him what he thought when I saw him this morning but we ran out of time in the appointment.  I guess I'm just thinking aloud about it all at the minute.  Something's niggling me saying "you need to alert someone to this" - even if they don't do anything, just for my conscience?  Lots to think about.  Thank you ((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))

Hopsie, thank you.  I hope he does!  I saw something on tv a while ago, a mum was saying how she really needs time to herself from time to time and she was so laid back about her kids, saying they know she loves them to bits but sometimes she wants to be on her own.  I envied her confidence about that so much!  I just never felt like anyone cared at all, let alone loved me to bits and I probably over do it with my boy because I'm so scared of him feeling like I did.  He is doing great, getting really tall and strong and telling me to leave him alone mostly   Thank you ((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))

Lighter, thank you, I think that's the bit that's niggling me, what if?  I have already alerted social services and the police and they did nothing because of her claims that I was crazy and harming him.  I feel like I want to have it all written up and say to someone, look, these are all the lies, here's the proof, she's lying, not me - even if they did nothing I'd feel like I'd really tried.  But, thanks to my new found personality via all the counselling, I feel able to be patient!  To keep ploughing through the paperwork, even though it disgusts me, pull it all together and then start asking people what to do with it.  I think I need to balance trying to do 'the right thing' with making sure I do right by my boy, who still needs a lot of my time every day (even though he says he doesn't anymore!).  So I'll keep going through it and maybe the answer will present itself at some point.  Thank you ((((((((())))))))))))))

Thanks everybody for all your help, as always!  Thank you xxxx

[Gaining Strength]

So glad you have support from homeopath, and therapist and (cross your fingers) your doctor.  Use that support in your mind and know there are people who are in your corner.

[Guest]

Twoapenny

you may find this thread interesting - and there is the indication of further information from the 'Family Rights Group':
http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/children-parenting-190/drop-clinic-652/570382-how-get-injuction-out-your-parents.html

[BonesMS]

(((((((((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[sKePTiKal]

Something's niggling me saying "you need to alert someone to this" - even if they don't do anything, just for my conscience?  Lots to think about.

Yes, it is a lot to think about. I've learned - the hard way - to not rush that thinking either. To get a really good understanding of what's going on with me, my perception, my wants... the now versus the then... to do a lot fact-checking... to accept and acknowledge support and validation... and to simply wait. Days, weeks later... I'll finally understand what I wanted in the first place.

Sometimes, that need to tell someone, is me telling ME - that this is bad behavior; that there's something really screwed up about MomBro - and that yes, in the end (gulp!) I really DON'T matter to them. I do still kick myself for being surprised, over & over, by this fact... and I think I do myself a bit of harm, in clinging to the idea and expectation that there is some shred of relationship between us. Buying into that facade; charade; false appearances... sets me up for the "surprise" every single time.

So - I have told someone. Y'all, my T, my hubs, the estate trustee, and now my hired advisors. Despite all the validation and information about what my rights are - I still have that "niggling feeling" too. I think I know what it is, even though it changes "flavor" sometimes... what it is, is guilt - that I am not like them. Maybe like survivor guilt. And I'd like for the guilt to go away... and so I keep looking for that Hall of Justice, the person or institution which has the authority to "do something" about MomBro and clear my name, once & for all... but there are no laws about emotional abuse; without a valid psych diagnosis or a crime  they're just screwed up people... and it's a free country, you know? But I don't think the guilt will go away even if they're put on a stage and a list of wrongs they have committed is read and the whole thing gets video'd and posted on YouTube. It's my job to pay attention to that guilt - just like the expectations that are shattered over & over again, when they prove they're not normal - and learn to let it go, all by myself.

No one else can do that for me.

That's MY version of a similar experience... your core feeling might be something else...and what you choose to do will probably vary, too.

[Twoapenny]

Thanks Bones and GS for your good wishes

Guest, thanks for the link, I will look into this more.

Phoenix, what's quite bizarre/interesting is that, with my step sister's mum dying this week, two things have happened.  One, I've been able to see how the family operate from an outsiders point of view and, because of all the counselling, I am much better now at picking out the emotional blackmail and the alternation between love and threats.  But two, in a small, funny way, other professionals have now been made aware of her, without me having to seek them out.  I have almost got all this documentation together now - as it is the draft is readable, so, if necessary, I could show them the proof that I have.  I have made them aware that I have evidence, and there is also proof now of the way she tells different people different versions of the same event.  I've been writing down everything that's been happening and there's now clear proof that she's told three different people a different version of what's going on.  I also feel I have handled the situation pretty well, supporting my sis without getting too involved.  It will be interesting to see if she has done this once to often now and she will finally be caught out.

And I think you are right about the need to tell someone being you telling you (or me telling me!!).  Funnily, with my T this week she said she feels I should be angry at my step-dad and I'm not.  I still feel that I was in some way wrong about this, it was my fault, I misunderstood etc.  I still feel sorry for him.  I can't quite get to the anger.  My sister played me a voicemail he left her the other day.  He's rude, abrupt, threatening her if she doesn't do what he says.  He shows no compassion or empathy for her situation - mum just died, daughter in hospital.  He doesn't offer to help, he tells her if she doesn't 'deal' with things he will take out an injunction.  There's no respect for her as a human being, no softness or kindness about him.  She is a 'thing' that is being a pain because she won't do as she's told so he's going to be mean to her until she gives in.  And I listened to it - the first time I've heard his voice in about seven years - and I thought - that's what he was always like with me.  He's a mean, vicious, ignorant brute of a man - and my mother convinced me it wasn't his fault and I should feel sorry for him.  So I see what you're saying, it feels like this was the little push I needed to go into therapy next week and tell her I'm ready to start getting angry at him because there's nothing he can do to hurt me now.

Thank you, everybody, as always!!  xx

[BonesMS]

(((((((((((((((((TwoAPenny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[sKePTiKal]

Oh Penny...

yes, I think you you can probably find your anger about him... as well as being angry at your mom for not doing a better job of protecting you; standing up to him. Not much of a Mother Hen or Tiger Mother, was she? I know that from here, looking at the dynamics of what was going on... many will find it easy to say, oh Mum was afraid of him and was having her own issues coping. Some people want to excuse or give mum a pass, under the circumstances. I think I have a dissenting point of view; my opinion is quite different... yet I know that mums were who they were; are who they are; and they truly don't/didn't have what it takes to be any different. That's not the same thing, as excusing them. There isn't any beneficial result from blaming, really.

We each have to come to terms with those dynamics, in our own way. I think you're doing a brilliant job and it must feel pretty good, to watch others come to the same conclusions about your mum based on her behaviors, that you have. That kind of validation is amazingly powerful and will have long term impacts that'll help propel you along toward your own life's balance and power and freedom.