bulimia question

[Nonameanymore]

hi everyone,
a new friend i have here in greece for a year now, confessed to be suffering from bulimia
does anyone have any experience with bulimia in their environment?
it's interesting because there were a lot of issues that didn't seem to be the root but when she told me of her bulimia her behaviours sort of made sense
she is usually a very angry person and i read in various sites that the underlying causes of bulimia is anger and anxiety
i feel really sad for her because she uses an excess of antidepressants, then takes xanax and lexotan because as she says she gets really angry and anxious and cannot sleep
i am not asking advice to help in a codependent way, i just want to understand so feel free to share anything because she has been a very good friend to me and i want to understand her rather than judge her
thanks so much

[BonesMS]

hi everyone,
a new friend i have here in greece for a year now, confessed to be suffering from bulimia
does anyone have any experience with bulimia in their environment?
it's interesting because there were a lot of issues that didn't seem to be the root but when she told me of her bulimia her behaviours sort of made sense
she is usually a very angry person and i read in various sites that the underlying causes of bulimia is anger and anxiety
i feel really sad for her because she uses an excess of antidepressants, then takes xanax and lexotan because as she says she gets really angry and anxious and cannot sleep
i am not asking advice to help in a codependent way, i just want to understand so feel free to share anything because she has been a very good friend to me and i want to understand her rather than judge her
thanks so much

I've dealt with bulimia with someone I know and the situation can be VERY confusing AND COMPLICATED!  I'm glad your friend is being honest with you.  The person I knew was not.  It took a while before I put two and two together and figured out what was REALLY going on!  When I brought up the evidence I was seeing, her first reaction was:  "Who are you going to believe....me or your lying eyes?  Then she finally admitted the truth that she had been doing this for YEARS and had been using me.  There were other issues that were going on where I caught her in other lies and she attempted to justify lying.  It took me YEARS to finally understand that I was dealing with a manipulative N who wanted everything to revolve around her.  She's no longer in my social circle.

It sounds like your friend is VERY DIFFERENT and that she is always honest with you.  It's best to take things slowly and one step at a time.  If possible, you might try and contact Overeaters Anonymous and ask if there are any support groups for families and friends of people with eating disorders.  If there are none in your area, then maybe ask for information to help you understand eating disorders and what you can do as a friend.

Just rambling......

Bones

[Nonameanymore]

Thanks Bones for sharing. We're actually in Greece and there aren't any (organised) 12-step programs which is a pity.

Yes, she has been very honest and I really appreciate it but I think it's because we do some self-development stuff together so it came up. It's funny because she said she told me long time ago but in all honesty, it didn't register. I also noted that some of her issues that seem like N issues were not N issues at all but rather her low self esteem and the need that bulimics have to control certain things (not as in manipulative but rather 'I will try to control what I can').

It's great that we're doing all the spiritual/healing stuff together and they work but I think it has worked more for me more because I have been years in therapy and Coda so these cleared only remnants of old stuff. I really think she needs therapy...
Another amazing thing is that I thought she was a cold person (helpful but distant) and she also recently admitted that she would like to be able to show more emotion and she has started showing some at least to me and I can see the difference in her.

BUT now that I know, it's really hard to spend time with her eating, knowing that 2 minutes after we're done, she will go the bathroom and purge everything... 

[sKePTiKal]

Dr. Houtini,

I don't have a personal experience with eating disorders, but I believe they fall into the category of self-harm issues, emotionally. That I know a bit about, first-hand. The way to perhaps helping your friend, is to understand that she fears extreme boundary violations, emotionally. (Invalidation) She doesn't feel "safe" being herself; isn't comfortable in her own skin. (anxiety) She might feel her anger is "bad"... makes her a bad person... yet she can't help being angry, about whatever invalidation is still stuck in her stomach... indigestible; unprocessed... and so she also feels --

helpless and powerless and the one thing she can control is her own body. Complicating that, is probably an association of food with comfort, filling her needs (tho' in reality those needs are emotional - not hunger; the food is a substitute)... and so she is compelled, in the midst of all this emotional push-pull confusion, to purge also.... which keeps the cycle (feedback loop) going round in circles with no apparent way out.

There is always a way out -- but those of us caught in these are too close to them, to see them. We believe that "this is just the way we are" -- WHO we are and we can't stop, without stopping being ourselves. It almost always takes a compassionate friend (or three) or therapist to help us see those doors out of the loop - in a present moment - repeatedly, until we learn to start seeing these and walking through the door, ourselves. Because of the identity-association with the behaviors, it's a traumatic fear to comtemplate letting go of the feedback loop... and becoming "someone else".

My advice is to help her feel safe, recognized and seen/heard, to gently (and without criticism) show her the doors (choices) in front of her if you notice she's running the maze of her feedback loop... and try to slowly persuade her that she's not a bad person, she's competent, confident, and has immense control over her choices - internal and external. Help her see/learn and feel boundaries. Listen for her code-speak about her feelings, help her learn other ways to express her feelings verbally -- and not through abusing her body. Let her know you "hear" her (and her feelings) loud & clear -- the thirst for that kind of validation seems almost insatiable at first. But with experience of boundaries, it normalizes over time.

All easier said, than done. Good on you for wanting to help her and best of luck!

[Nonameanymore]

Thanks Phoenix, your first paragraph actually sums her up... Very useful, thanks again.

[BonesMS]

Here's a possible resource that could be helpful:

http://www.oa.org/

There's also online and telephone meetings.

Bones

[Hopalong]

I echo Bones' suggestion of using the larger eating disorder organizations as a resource...

best
Hops

[Nonameanymore]

Thanks Hops, will def look it up

[Meh]

I "live" with someone who makes herself throw up. I can hear her doing it in the bathroom. It's heartbreaking and also it freaks me out and I wonder if I could do anything to help. But then I tell myself I'm over loaded with my own compounding issues and I should not get involved. She is not a close friend of mine but she seems like a person who has had too much misfortune through no fault of her own and she is pretty young still.

I don't know much about it. I know that she was raped when she was younger by a step father. I know that she was married to a strange older man who turned out according to her to be having an incestuous gay relationship with his own uncle.

She sees a counselor but that doesn't seem to help and she can't afford a fancy treatment center I guess.

It's hard for me to believe how hard it is for some people to get the help they need.

So, I don't know much about it only that the current person in my life who suffers from this sort of thing has a very traumatic past.

[Nonameanymore]

Thanks for sharing boat.
It's interesting that you point out a few things that ring true for me this morning. We did a self-development seminar the weekend before and although the instructor told us not to go around helping people before we strengthen ourselves, like the recovering codependent that I am, I went around 'helping' people (in quotes because sometimes I do it when it's unsolicited) and today after a long time I woke up burned out...

She is back on her antidepressants and as per the other discussion on this board about them, it means to me that she went back to the 'easy' way of dealing with it rather than her core issue, although I have to admit that I did read everywhere on the net that it's the only actual chemical treatment to bulimia.

We had a discussion the other day and I expressed how sad I was and that I did some research, trying to point out some of the health issues involved and told her that I will not enable her by buying food and eating it with her is she will throw it up.

A general realisation that includes myself is that like with any addictions or addictive behaviours, a person cannot do something or stop something for someone else other than themselves. So for now I will stick to my own recovery for my issues and be there for her when she decides to change.

[river]

although the instructor told us not to go around helping people before we strengthen ourselves, like the recovering codependent that I am, I went around 'helping' people (in quotes because sometimes I do it when it's unsolicited) and today after a long time I woke up burned out...
  

......I think helping in a healthy way doesnt burn you out, it makes you well.  But finding the healthy way is the challenge.  Helping others is the very thing that makes life meaningful.  Its the question of what is help that is the issue.  Doing something for someone that they need to be doing for themselves is not help, thats true.  Likewise...

a person cannot do something or stop something for someone else other than themselves  

..... this actuall works the other way round also, its paradoxical, the change has to begin within us, but the reasons for wanting to do so may be many, including for someone else.  I always felt this myself, but only realised for sure about it by reading Dr Frankl, really worth checking out.  

[Nonameanymore]

Thanks for sharing River.

I respectfully disagree with your second point and this has been a major thing for me. Wanting to change someone else is the recipe for failure in any relationship really. A person cannot stop/quit an addictive behaviour for someone else, nor can a person change because someone else wants them to. Even a therapist cannot 'change' you. I think a therapist can help you change by finding the point inside you that thinks a change is needed. I know this for myself and I saw it in other people too. I read Frankl an age ago but do not remember the point you are referring to.
I talked to our instructor yesterday and she sort of confirmed this point saying that a person can be the impetus for change in another person but that's that... I remember this with trying to eliminate addictive behaviours in myself...
I also found a pattern, that I use my time on other people's issues, when I am not brave enough to face my own...

As for the first point, I always remember one of the first things I read/learned in Coda books/groups and it's funny I was pondering on it last night, this metaphor for when cabin pressure on a plane drops and they advice mothers with babies to apply the oxygen mask on themselves first so they stay conscious and able to then apply to the baby's face...

In my case, I am trying to discern between contribution and service to another person, being one of the basic human needs, and 'help', as in either unsolicited trying to pinpoint to the other person what's wrong with them or using resources I don't have, as in the case of the baby and mother on the plane with no air.

I am also starting to learn that EVERYBODY has the capacity to change themselves and help themselves, we are all equal in this and that maybe by 'helping', I am depriving the other person of working on their thing and do them more harm by forcing them to stay stuck.

[river]

I do understand what CODA is saying, and also you are saying.  And yes, for me it has come back to 'let it begin with me'.  However, its just not that simple.  I think the key is where you pinpoint that its about the question of what is healthy helping and what is  not.  

   In my case, I am trying to discern between contribution and service to another person, being one of the basic human needs, and 'help', as in either unsolicited trying to pinpoint to the other person what's wrong with them or using resources  

 
........ the baby in the airoplane is a good illustration.  
On the other hand, too many people in the fellowships get this back to front, and say things like to a newcomer 'I cant ehlp you, Im not well enrough yet', or something, which denies the basic building block of recovery that 'one alcohlic talking to another' is the basis of the whole 12 step recovery movement.  Theres a sort of coldness and rigidity about that, and I hate when that happens.  

But me too, Im a veteran of helping others coming out of my own dream, that they themselved didnt share.  Looking back tho, if I had been wiser in exactly HOW I went about it, all would have benefitted, including me.  hhhh hindsight and sorrowful concern!   Still learning.

[teartracks]

.....I think helping in a healthy way doesnt burn you out, it makes you well.  But finding the healthy way is the challenge.  Helping others is the very thing that makes life meaningful.  Its the question of what is help that is the issue.  Doing something for someone that they need to be doing for themselves is not help, thats true.  Likewise...

You're so right on with this.

tt

[Nonameanymore]

RIvs I am with you on the not available on the support group front. When I joined coda, most of the sponsors were already have had their newcomers. I remember that after a year or so a lady offered to sponsor, added her number on the list and when I rang her she never picked up... I completely blocked this one!
IMO with an exception or two, nobody seemed to be doing really well enough to help. In all honesty, unlike fellowships like AA which require lifelong membership to stay sober for support, coda is not. When I stopped going weekly and revisited occasionally, I heard people share the same stories even after 3, 4 or 5 years. In that sense, they really were not able/available to help me, since they were dealing with their own issues still...