Perfection

[Anonymous]

Thankyou Gardener for the link.

Portia asked,

Have you, Disco Guy got some personal animosity towards DG?
No. None    I commented to draw attention to something that had a negative domino affect.

It sure sounds like it!
Thank You Portia for your honesty, and I am not about to argue with you about your assumptions. We are all free to think whatever we want to. Of course you are entitled to impose your own personal interpretation and meaning structure into my words.

I wonder why?
I repeat. I have no personal animosity towards DG. Your assumptions that you are wondering about me are wrong.  

I am also wondering about things here as well.

I wonder why did DG immediately assume the worst of Guest? Why did DG turn her immediate assumptions into solid negative innuendo by calling Guest's comments 'bait'? I felt that type of thing was quite typical of DG. That is a personal observeration and opinion I hold at the moment about DG's style.

I wonder another thing as well. I wonder if any manners will be shown here to Guest. I wonder will DG come back and apologise to Guest? She's made negative comments about Guest. Will she come back now, say something positive, and correct her misunderstanding?  

I felt the 'bait' comment of DG's was very leading. I also felt it was imposing an ungrounded suspicion and mysterious negative agenda to Guest.  It was was easy and simple to me to see what Guest was saying. It appeared to me to be not 'bait' but merely interest and exchange.

It appears clear to all now that there was no 'bait' and apologies are in order.
 
Until then, my assumptions about DG stand. The charge of 'bait' by DG was silly unfair innuendo, negative suggestion and suspicion and mildly combative. DG felt justified in her assumptions and continued on that line by following up later even with an order to Guest to name themselves.

These comments to and about Guest were based on a negative and untrue assumption by DG that she was happy the throw around. They were out of order and her one accusatory comment seemed to lead her and justify her making another.

This type of thing may or may not be common here, but is it acceptable?  Is Guest not entitled to validation and acceptance here too?

Disco Guy

[Discounted Girl]

Oh boy, I wasn't going to post on this thread again, but Portia, I have to reply to you. Thanks for the deflective shield -- you are sweet. You have had lots of practice I think in recent months deflecting attacks. "Whump" your ass -- hahahaha -- you are funny. Sometimes around here they say "Boy, I'll whup on you like a red-headed step chile," -- or "I was so mad, I kicked the dog and spit in the fare." j/k Actually, I can go for two or three days at a time without running into any hicks.

That's the third time some unnamed guest suggested I give orders. I wonder when and to whom I gave orders. I wonder about this -- truly I wonder. I don't see a wondering emoticon or I would surely use it. At first I got all excited when I saw the last remark came from Disco Guy -- it reminded me to watch Saturday Night Fever over the weekend. I hope Disco Guy (maybe she, oh, excuse me, he is the biker dude of the Village People?) is Stayin' Alive - and regardless of her, errr, I mean his hopes, "I Will Survive" regardless of little snickers. Funny how you can get a cyber-opinion of another's personality. In the flesh and blood world people say that I should not go to the great lengths I do to avoid being bossy. Things get distorted many times on these forums; however, I know I am honest, that I have strong convictions and that I would never purposely hurt anyone's feelings on an internet forum or in person. I just don't like sneaks and hypocrites and I see nothing wrong with saying that.

As I was getting ready to submit this post, I got an email saying there was another Perfection post. Now I see that Mr. Disco has posted again. Seems to me there is a lot of wondering going on around here.

[Anonymous]

I am the original guest and decided to take a couple of days to stay off the board. But I guess I am a typical guy. Someone presents with a problem (I didn't know Seeker was venting - how would I know that? I took her literally) and decided to put across what I thought was a reality based solution in a general way. Guys will usually offer a solution to someone because we are wired that way. I don't do the touchy-feely thing as well as women. I will admit that.

I think Disco guy is right about DG starting something that didn't need to be started. I think if you all were honest you could see that.

One more thing. This is a public posting board and not everyone will hear you. Even those who said they took my point, obviously really didn't. If you don't want to see what I wrote in an objective manner, then you see what you want. And Seeker, I will not take the power you were giving me. I don't, in fact, have such power. Sorry, peeps. I am an NT and we are not understood in this world. And I am a male and you females can be needlessly sensitive and bashing sometimes without due cause. There are many problems on this board by this. That's my opinion. You don't have to agree and probably won't. Thanks, Disco guy for injecting a male perspective. Whew!!!

[Anonymous]

Oh Sorry, forgot one thing. Somebody asked what an echo chamber is. It is an internet blog/board where like minded people get together to pretty much reinforce each other's view. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. The advantages are obvious. The disadvantages are that sometimes people can get too comfortable with the same idea without introducing new ideas and it makes them less able to cope after being in a cocoon of sameness. I've been reading too many political internet blogs - it happens there all the time.

[Discounted Girl]

Oh, Mr. Disco, you little rascal -- who are you who keeps stirring up trouble on this board -- why do you do it (more wondering)? I suppose it shall always be a mystery.

You said you:
" ... felt that type of thing was quite typical of DG. That is a personal observeration [sic] and opinion I hold at the moment about DG's style."

I have never started a conflict on this forum. You hold an opinion on my style? What style do you have and I'm not talking about dancin'? No one can even see your name to discern a style.

You said you:
" ... wonder will DG come back and apologise [sic] to Guest? She's made negative comments about Guest. Will she come back now, say something positive, and correct her misunderstanding?"

No, and I am still trying to find that wondering emoticon.  

You said:
"It appears clear to all now that there was no 'bait' and apologies are in order ... These comments to and about Guest were based on a negative and untrue assumption by DG that she was happy the [sic] throw around. They were out of order and her one accusatory comment seemed to lead her and justify her making another."

Mr. Disco, you sound very pompous and authoritative. That's just the personal observation and opinion I hold at the moment. You ruled on orders twice there. I thought I gave the orders around here. Maybe next time you can Guest in as Robert's Rules.

p.s. You might want to use spell check sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Oh Sorry, forgot one thing. Somebody asked what an echo chamber is. It is an internet blog/board where like minded people get together to pretty much reinforce each other's view. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. The advantages are obvious. The disadvantages are that sometimes people can get too comfortable with the same idea without introducing new ideas and it makes them less able to cope after being in a cocoon of sameness. I've been reading too many political internet blogs - it happens there all the time.

Thankyou guest for explaining the echo chamber comment   . There is so much truth in what you say about this. The advantages and also disadvantages.   At the end of the day it's all growth and learning though, isn't it?

At least that is, if one can maintain an objective independent mind. Even an echo chamber of common issues can have much to teach. Becoming aware of our own discomfort when presented with presumably conflicting ideas is a true growth experience. Or how about observing our own rejection or resistance to anything that doesn't resemble our chosen cocoon.    That can be fun if we're willing.

Thanks Guest for the health check.

[Anonymous]

You are welcome.

[Anonymous]

Hello again,

Well, this is getting sort of interesting.  I'm glad Guest is here so we can explore the intricacies of invalidation.  He'll give the whole class (many co-eds here) as many demonstrations as needed until we conform to his world view (great internet term, dude!)  BTW why are you here?  What is your story?

First, I will admit that I shared DG's perception about bait but decided to ignore it and answer plainly the first go around.

But Guest (dude!), I'll have to cut you some slack (something you seem to appreciate) because this is apparently your first impression of me.  I don't usually go off on people.  But oh yeah, you're busy recovering from the shock of being wrong by Being Right.  How does this happen?  

You said:

And Seeker, I will not take the power you were giving me. I don't, in fact, have such power. Sorry, peeps. I am an NT and we are not understood in this world. And I am a male and you females can be needlessly sensitive and bashing sometimes without due cause.  

Wow.  This sounds like a wounded ego.  And bait (now).  Did you take a peek at Gardener's link?  Or do you know it all, being the Rational Guy you are?  And what power?  Now I don't know what you are talking about.  You can't just graciously accept my peace offering?  BTW, I notice you still don't think you did anything wrong.  I wasn't giving to get, but I do feel your response nullifies mine.

Go to Gardener's link.

So being NT is a free pass for not being understood, but I am branded for being female?  Wow.  now I know what I'm dealing with.  Perhaps you should head down to the university and sign up for Emotional Intelligence 101A.  You may find it refreshingly challenging since you have Rational Man down to a tee.  Find out why saying "you females" might be interpreted as bait.  The whole syllabus is on the Invalidation link from Gardener.  That's where you'll find the "due cause".  Honestly.  It will do you and the women you meet a world of good.  

Go to Gardener's link.

Don't believe me.  I'm female.

Go to Gardener's link.

No, don't apologize.  I'll wait here for more crumbs of wisdom from you, Rational Man.  I'll sit here with folded hands, real nice, looking up to you, waiting for  you to explain the ways of the world to me.  I'm batting my eyes now in admiration.  Waiting for the dulcet tones of Reason.  Of Sanity.  Of Wisdom.  Of Intelligence.  Ah, the highly prized gifts of Gods.  Never mind the gifts of Caring, Compassion, Listening, and Love.  Wimps!  Weaklings!  Women!  And yet, there you are, shaking your head, still trying to figure out how the human heart works.  There are no diagrams, charts, manuals.  Just Feelings.  Men have them too as you might notice from your wounded ego.  Oh, that's right.  You are allowed to have your feelings and still be respected and admired.  If someone else has them, you should be condescending as hell.

Go to Gardener's link.  Go ahead.  No one will see you.  Take a chance on a different world view.  Practice what you preach.

Buh-bye.  Seeker

[Anonymous]

Ooooh, I'm getting an idea here. And it is this - DG and DG really belong together. Stay with me now, I'm not a great storyteller. But say that an outspoken, but sensitive girl meets a realist who is more liable to see people as science projects than human and she uses her sensitivity to make him more human and just a bit less logical. Then he uses his logic and rationale to make her more grounded in her emotions. They were originally trying to use each other as pygmalion projects and instead end up really valuing each other's differences and falling in love.

Okay, pretty hoky, right? But these two are paying a lot of attention to each other on the board. And insulting each other is a staple of Hollywood movies before the two protaganists get together. And they live happily ever after and have kids that are well cared for and loved and that are sheilded against contact with their N grand parents.

Just having a bit of light fun with this idea. I hope it's taken as such. And of course I don't know if the two are involved already. And.....well, the list goes on. It is just a bit of silliness.   And hardly original.

[Anonymous]

Seeker, won't be here long. I am the original guest. And I did out myself as a feeble male who didn't get it.

But since you want a nugget of wisdom (yes, I know that you were being sarcastic) , please note that the INFP type is the type that projects the most. And that's what you are doing (in spades, may I add). And I've already had my share of the INFP emotion 101 class. I am me and have as many and as varied emotions as you. It is simply a matter of display. I'm not you and can never be you. My sister in law is also NT and she is like me. It's not a male/female thing necessarily. And being INFP isn't bad at all. But you can be just as hurtful as others in a different way.

So long. I won't be back this time so you may fight with yourself if you choose to. This is about you. You do know that, right? Be gentle with yourself.

[Anonymous]

Original guest and Disco Guy are the same person.   Everyone should just ignore the troll.

[phoenix]

Gee, did my dad find his way to the board afer all? What a wet blanket. What was it, were we having too much fun?

I ditto, or is that echo? DG's sentiments.

Isn't Echo the one who falls in love with Narcissus?  Who can only echo because she is not heard? Yes ,echo is appropriate. Thank you for furnishing the word. I will echo DG 's words', I too thought it was a set up, and I waited that whole day to see how diplomatically Seeker would handle it. And she came through. Beautifully.

Good going Seeker!

And I found this little tidbit in the archives that so aptly illuminates what is going on here:

Bravo, XXXXXX. You are recognizing Narcisstic behavior, and calling attention to the fact that you do not have to deal with it. Remember, Narcisstic people love to mince words and argue semantics. Empathetic people are able to see the meaning behind the words, even if what is said isn't one hundred percent grammatically correct, or if the perfect word isn't used. Empathetic people want to understand each other, Narcisstic people need to be right. Congratulations, XXXXXX, you responded perfectly.

Another thing, Guest, concerning DG , you remind me of an incident with a friend and his Rottweiler on a camping trip.  The dog did not like and feared me  for some reason. Whenever my back was turned to it,  the dog would sneak up and take the bottoms of my jeans in it's mouth, growling. It was too afraid  to bite me, though I could tell it wanted to. Look at you, sheltered in your anonymity. So why are you so afraid of DG?

[Moonflower]

I wonder why did DG immediately assume the worst of Guest? Why did DG turn her immediate assumptions into solid negative innuendo by calling Guest's comments 'bait'? I felt that type of thing was quite typical of DG. That is a personal observeration and opinion I hold at the moment about DG's style.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it appeared to me that Guest started out baiting Seeker.  Also, Disco Guy is very obviously baiting Discounted Girl.  

I wonder another thing as well. I wonder if any manners will be shown here to Guest. I wonder will DG come back and apologise to Guest? She's made negative comments about Guest. Will she come back now, say something positive, and correct her misunderstanding?

If apologies are due, then Guest and Disco "Stu" Guy should be the ones offering them up.

And I am a male and you females can be needlessly sensitive and bashing sometimes without due cause.

If you don't want to be around us "females", fine.....just don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Moonflower

PS:   I do not read/respond to troll posts directed to me.  I will remind everyone else not to waste their time reading and responding to the troll.

[Anonymous]

sorry, Guest, I just can't let it go;

But since you want a nugget of wisdom (yes, I know that you were being sarcastic) , please note that the INFP type is the type that projects the most. And that's what you are doing (in spades, may I add).

 You are really quite funny.  You challenge everyone to entertain a different view saying we can't when in reality you can't.  That's projecting in spades, too, I might add.

And I've already had my share of the INFP emotion 101 class.

Really?

I am me and have as many and as varied emotions as you. It is simply a matter of display.

 Yes.  But you insist on having me recognize your emotions, insist on your rightness.  You still will not acknowledge this.  You don't acknowledge my points.

 

I'm not you and can never be you.

Ditto.

My sister in law is also NT and she is like me. It's not a male/female thing necessarily.

I know that.  Thanks for insulting my intelligence again.  It is YOU that threw the gender thing into the works.  You really have a hard time tracking another's line of reasoning.  Oh, but I'm projecting again.

And being INFP isn't bad at all.

Thanks.

But you can be just as hurtful as others in a different way.

 Agreed.  It could have been avoided but you refuse to acknowledge any responsibility on your part.  I was willing to go 50/50 with you.  But you slapped my handshake away.  Remember?  

I think you're bugged because I won't bow down to your intellect.  Oh well.  Here's something you won't find on the Myers Brigg test.  It's called Respect.  When someone is invalidated (I notice you say you had enough of Emotions 101 but you won't acknowledge the concept of invalidation) it shows disrespect.  Hence the entire downward spiral of which YOU were apart.  You find being held accountable hurtful.  Too bad.

You're not my enemy, you're my FATHER!   (Cue for John Williams score here.)  

Seeker

[Anonymous]

This is for Disco Guy/Guest:

I wonder will DG come back and apologise to Guest?

Why bother?  I did, and look what it got me.  More invalidation.

Over and out.

Seeker