new phase

[river]

  One thing I've noticed lately, is that this resistance has a knee-jerk reflex when another person tries to tell me "don't be like that"... "don't phrase it that way"... as if they are trying to define me and mold my expression of my feelings and self into something that THEY prefer me to be   

........ and people often do say that one way or other dont they?    .........
Your way of healing, that hug sort of bit didnt really work for me.  In fact nothing did.  Lots nearly did.  And I always felt that theres something which will work for people like me, if it could be put together.   
r

[Guest]

Glad it's working for you PR.

I get a bit bored with 'me' sometimes, know what I mean?

edit: that may have sounded trite, so I'll add some more words. Hmmm...choose something to talk about:

it's an unrealistic expectation of others... that they are going to be exactly what you want them to be at all times.
It's more than unrealistic!

I don't know PR. Where are you going? When will you 'get there'? Will you ever 'get there'? What's wrong with 'here'? Nobody's perfect. If a person aims for perfect, who are they going to converse with?

It's like the 100 year old in an old folks' home whose kids and peers have all died. Okay it depends on attitude, but realistically, that's not going to be top of most peoples' lists of 'what I want in life'. I'd imagine.

So what's the next phase? What number is 'death' on the list? Seriously.

[sKePTiKal]

Yes, FW... I agree about it getting boring after awhile! In an odd way, tho... it's also very comforting and self-soothing. But, this duality of self means I'm not comfortable in my own skin -- STILL -- much of the time. So I'm making smaller and more delicate "refinements"... and yes, I'm that detail-oriented; I used to do stippling pen & ink drawings... and loved drypoint.

River, I don't know that this will work for me either. But it feels right, I have an intuition that it'll work. Or heck, maybe I'm really going off the deep end into wacko-land! Like FW reminds me... no one makes it to the "goal" (and no one who proclaims they have can live up to it)... somewhere along that path we deal with mortality and what does that mean for people who have been or are, split? That's on my to-do list, too... I've been working through those legal documents and trying to make choices; hopefully we'll finalize that soon. The experience itself... well, that'll be something REALLY different, I think! LOL...

I guess I'm creating a way for myself to measure "progress" - a personal definition. I'm doing "good" when I'm being open to people and actively being with people, in a social setting... and not squirming in discomfort about whether my last comment was TMI, really stupid... when I don't have that much focus me at all... when I can simply be me, with other people and not be afraid at the same time... that the shame-shoe is going to drop on my head. When I'm not "hiding in plain sight".

[Guest]

PR

and not squirming in discomfort about whether my last comment was TMI, really stupid.

what is it called if you turn that around? I mean, not about oneself. Is there such a thing as paying too much attention to others? And I don't mean in a caring way; I mean in focus terms. Ha! I guess that might look like a Psycho Therapist. That's a joke. Not a bad one, either.

edit: I mean my paying attention. I reckon that needed clarifying for understanding by others. I think that probably makes my point?

[sKePTiKal]

Psycho Therapist... ha ha!

[Guest]

Glad you saw that it was a joke. I bet somewhere though it isn't a joke, sadly. Gee! Don't call on me today, I'm in a great mood! Hmm. Feeling somewhat better already...

Last night I dreamed. My father called me from inside a building, like a church, he was standing high up. He said come up, I want you to meet someone. I went up. I saw a small girl standing some way from him, she'd be about four. I said hello and she, and he, started to speak to me but both of their voices were broken up, like a bad phone line. I bent down to her and saw her mouth moving but i couldn't hear any words at all. Then, like a link restored, I could hear everything she was saying, she was talking fast, burbling about her stuff, animated and so I picked her up and carried her to him, her balanced on my hip. And he seemed happy and I carried her out, still talking. I woke up and knew who she was. It was very simple. And I feel very sad.

[sKePTiKal]

Thank you for sharing your dream, FW. Glad you "got it", too...

Sadness for me is always linked to it's opposite emotion - love. We just aren't sad about things we don't care about, you know? (hoo boy... those double negatives...) We are only sad, about what we care about... there, that's better.

These are yin-yang and inextricably linked for me, making sadness a "positive" emotion. The caring comes first and when we experience loss or separation, then there is exquisite sadness that carries that love off to the other, then grief and mourning... which are subtly different to me. Then, one day the sun comes up emotionally... and only the love remains, the loss is accepted and then...

it's chop wood and carry water again.

I'm having dreams like this, too... though I don't remember much of them. Whatever this phase is all about... and I don't even feel motivated to try to define it... it's feeling good - and different. Kinda like my whole internal experience is going through a hard drive defragmentation process; an internal subconscious or unconscious reorganization and consolidation. And physical symptoms are improving; going away. I allowed myself to just "stop" everything for weekend and became a fixture of the couch... not even cooking - just grazing... cocoon and mental vegetable time. It felt pretty good! And I was still able to do all the "have-tos" that needed to get done. Without whipping myself into a frenzy or demanding it be done a certain way or nagging hubs to do something, anything... or much "left brain" stuff at all. My "right brain" self isn't a clueless idiot, after all... just... fuzzy and less focussed on details. It's perfectly OK a lot of the time for me to drift from here to there, seemingly (but not really) aimlessly... I don't have to be "on" all the time.

[Guest]

Definitely PR, no sadness without attachment.

I don't have to be "on" all the time.  - Realising that even when I am 'on', I'm not the same, or so it seems. We'll see.

Had another of 'those' dreams after waking and going back to sleep following the one above. Very different, tells me stuff i don't want to know but have to accept sooner or later. As if i don't already 'know' anyway and hardly surprising. Shrug. It's just stuff in my head, defragging.

[sKePTiKal]

So, a quick summary update (I hope... sometimes the fingers start typing and I find I have way more to say that I thought).

My dreams continue... and I still don't remember much of them; just the feelings linger as I become conscious of my body again in the morning. I could be wrong, but it also seems that the strength and intensity of the resistance is also beginning to wane. The physical symptoms are also lessening and becoming less noticeable; bothersome.

Externally, it doesn't seem like anything is different about me - yet. But internally, it sure is. And it defies description right now. It's rather like how a tree grows. Seems like you just planted it and it was a vulnerable little thing. Needing constant attention: a stake to keep it growing vertically... some fertilizer and mulch... to help it weather the weather... and then one day, you look at it and realize it's becoming a mature tree and can stand on it's own; it's roots are deep and strong; it's canopy spreading dappled shade and providing shelter and food for birds and other critters. Storm resistant, too.

Something old-new has crossed my path again as far as entertaining and educating my busy little brain: social science. I remember, back in the late 60s, just hearing about this in passing. Maybe it was still a rather new field then. It certainly peaked my interest pretty deeply - but then I got pushed off center for 40 some years on all that personal crap. Personal "history" now... dry dusty artifacts that tell a tale... that doesn't matter to anyone but me. I don't know beans about social science, as it is now, so that's my next brain foray... if the rest of the projects that are on the discussion table leave me any time.

Those including building/remodelling/maintenance, landscaping, interior decorating, sewing... and possibly a computer upgrade, carving out a personal, private studio space after the "man cave" is set up and once for all: taming the paper invasion that threatens to consume every single flat surface in the house. Oh, yes - and finding my "place" in my new community where I can be useful again. Somehow my "social calendar" seems to be overflowing... and that's a whole 'nother new development; something I couldn't ever say I experienced before in my life. Finding that balance keeps me busy, too. Tai chi is coming up again, too. Finally!

I guess, that means I'm finally learning to juggle???

[sKePTiKal]

So... got my Kindle fixed and looked through some of the social science titles... and wound up with something that deals with concepts and ideas in psychology related to what's called "adaptive unconscious". Still reading, but already chewing over the proposition that our unconscious selves can/do change; that they don't have one static, distinct personality - per se. So much for my feral cat/Twiggy metaphors, huh? Maybe not; it might be too soon to tell. He does allow that "adaptive unconscious" might not be a single thing or entity; it might consist of multiple "modules"... hmmmm.....

The other idea I gotta admit is more perplexing to me: the idea of "discounting" interest or like in something when a reward is given. The examples presented were explaining the difference in observed behavior and self-reported behavior in young children... trying to determine the age when this behavior related to child development shows up. Like ages 3-4...

2 groups of kids: both given markers to play with... one group given a gold star type certificate for drawing; one without the "reward". When talking later on, at a certain age the kids generally liked drawing with markers more consistently when no reward was given; younger children the opposite - this is the "discounting effect" concept. In reality, the reward made no difference to what they actually did; amount of time using the markers.

So far, I'm seeing an explanation for why the behavior-mod technique of giving myself "rewards" for not smoking backfired every single time. It feels like the theory of discounting a reward/actual like or interest actually "fits" me. And why I've persisted in finding another way through to the end result, than what is typically recommended (and so far, so good - my current pack was opened 3 days ago). Now, that's not the same as saying I understand this! Because it seems backwards to me, from what commonsense logic would expect...

if you want to encourage an interest or "like" in something, a reward should sweeten the deal, right? Like Pavlov's dog training theories...

But this concept is saying that some 3 yr olds and most 4 yr olds, will like something less, if they're rewarded for engaging in it. I guess the author is leading up to explaining this by saying their adaptive unconscious self is already separating/individuating... resisting and demonstrating a separate sense of will. In some respects, there are parallels between this idea of "adaptive unconscious" theory and what I've read before with L-R brain theories... and the 3 or 4-D chess game-like newer neuroscience theories that have demonstrated how much more complex, interdependent and interelated (and adaptable) things are in the brain, compared to the old system of assigning things to L or R brain functioning, solely.

I don't know what I'm doing reading this or what I expect from it. Just reading it and may very well hit the permanent delete button on it later... it's something to read (other than current event - how depressing & boring!) when it's too chilly to go out and I'm just feeling lazy and cozy and hubs is watching TV. I've been busy cleaning house... and purging... trying to make space room by room... for "something" else. Guess I'm deciding later what that is...

Meanwhile, getting a lot of "have-tos" done in the process... and thinking about fun "want-tos" too.

[sKePTiKal]

OK - LOL!!!!!

NOT a good idea to drastically change hair color while reading a book about conscious/unconscious self theories and how that translates into personality/identity!! (If one tends to overthink things...or has an over-busy imagination!)

I like the color itself. It's PRETTY. I just don't know "if it's me" or not yet. Or if I'm any kind of reliable judge of what's "me" or not.

Edit: the picture doesn't do the color justice; it's kinda dull copper-penny with lots of lighter highlights. Not a color my hair has EVER been, quite, before.

Comments?

[Guest]

Like it.  Looks pretty natural in the pic too, although I guess it looks darker in real light? The highlights are good. Now I want some highlights!

As for hair colour being me....well I can't see my own hair, so colour isn't that important unless it makes my regular clothes colours look horrendous and hurtful to onlookers.

I recently saw a young woman with two-colour hair. She had a white blonde heavy straight fringe, but had dyed the hair on either side bright orange (not hair auburn, but orange) and had curled it. I couldn't stop looking at her. It didn't look good or bad, just very affected, like a clown/circus wig. And she was dressed fairly ordinarily. She was a white European but non-native English-speaker so I'm thinking just maybe there was a cultural 'thing' I wasn't getting. Certainly made me look though.

Remind me PR, your hair was white before? If yes, I LOVE it!

And that was a complete post about hair.

[sKePTiKal]

Yes, FW... my hair was pretty much white before. For some bizarre reason, the back of my head was "hanging on" to more original color than the rest of my head (sort of like inside... LOL!)

For the life of me, I can't figure what the "big deal" about this is, for me... because I consciously just wanted to change the color... because I can, why not?, it's just hair... and yes, you're absolutely right! Hair is a great example something so "outside" that I can't see it (it's not that long yet)... so I'm really not aware of it most of the time. The last time I thought I even cared about "girly" stuff... was right before/right after Twiggy's Day when the Sh_t hit the fan. The before was normal pre-teen fascination with clothes, makeup, growing into female potential... body changes and all that. The after was more OCD obsession, self-consciousness, fear-based - freaked out.

Of course, that's what this thread is really about: a new level or approach of working on that part of me - the one who's been having a hissy-fit for 40 years - weaving "her" back into "me" enough so that there is cooperation more of the time, than there is unconscious resistance, self-harm and sabotage. This book I'm reading about the concept of Adaptive Unconscious seems to be saying that my goal here ain't gonna happen; that we're not built that way... that some of my basic premises and ideas are wrong. Could be! I haven't finished the book yet. And there are almost no descriptions or explanations of this theory in action for people who suffered abuse or trauma... those kinds of life-events where things go wrong with the self, the emotions/mind, the unconscious-conscious relationship. I'm gonna have to think about that some, after I finish the book.

So the changes I'm currently making that seem unimportant, irrelevant and "silly" to my conscious self, are meant to satisfy some of needs & wants of this inner, supposedly unconscious self. Which I'm not supposed to be aware of... much less able to "know" what it's wants & needs are, according to this author. Maybe one of the positive, unintended benefits (silver lining) of what I've survived and the way I tried to work it through - making sense of what happened, chronology, fitting it all together... and accepting as me the parts that were banished for so long... maybe, that gives me a way of "knowing", of accessing that unconscious self. I still don't know yet if that's an accurate description, if it's simply a self-soothing visualization (= sheer fantasy), or if it's sort of an unformed, undesigned motivational goal that I'm not able to consciously control.

I mean - why should the techniques of therapy be limited to only working through the negative things in life?? Why not apply those ideas to figuring out the fun, the happy, the fulfilling, the big existential or spiritual questions, for ourselves too?? If I'd had a "normal" emotional attachment/education I'd already know those things about myself... in reality, I don't have clue one - it's as if I grew up in a parallel universe, really, where "fun" and "happy" didn't exist - and at 55, I've gotta work FAST to remediate that particular oversight in my self-education!!  (No, I have no idea why I feel that way... or if I'm still just as NUTZ as I was before... )

[Hopalong]

I think it's a very pretty color...kind of like bourbon and water, or diluted peach, or firelight at the edges.

Nice!

The real pleasure is seeing your face.

Hops

[teartracks]

Amber, that's you!   I'm with Hops, the best part is seeing your face.  The hair doesn't  look colored.  It looks very natural.

Thanks for the pic.

tt