Author Topic: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff  (Read 22961 times)

sKePTiKal

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2011, 09:53:08 AM »
Thx, FW... that's pretty close to what I was thinking too. But I notice that this is done usually right in front of said husband... with the "out" that wifey is just teasing... don't take it seriously, etc. It just feels mean, like trying to one-up hubby's ego or put him down... for the sole reason of being considered "one of the girls" and "witty" (or snarky)... I think I'm finding a way through this; each situation is a bit different.

I don't like to pounce on hubby like that (in the name of "playing") because he does have his insecure side; his inferiority (in comparison) issues... when in truth, he's a very sensitive, sweet, and very smart person. It's precisely because he doesn't have the huge, outsized, "see what I've achieved" male ego... that I like him, too. Most women do. But I think I see the dirty laundry behind this social game... it's that the women (for the most part) haven't had their own careers; they've not competed with men on that level. So this is a mean-spirited way to "level the current playing field". And it would seriously backfire in real-world competition in the workplace.

-----------------

NLS:

try to keep the personal stuff separate from the cultural pressures, in how you think about this topic: guys & marriage. Your mom is used to them being one and the same; and accepting this as "the way things are". They are NOT.

And whether your mom wants to admit it or not, the trend in marriage statistics - especially in your generation - among white society is improving. My guess is, that even in India... the tradition of arranged marriages is giving way to modern life also. She is clinging to this one aspect... as if it's the sum total of your cultural identity. It is not. The culture can and will survive and change and adapt and grow... without arranged marriages.

However: that's an important cultural norm for your mom; a part of her self-identity and your breaking with that tradition is going to be tough on both of you. Years ago, I went through something similar - breaking with another strong cultural identity. Ironic isn't it? The word "cult" comes from culture... and one has negative connotations and the other positive.

I keep coming back to the fact - culturally and personally - that you and only you have control over that boundary; of whom you choose to be in a relationship with. That is your right as a woman in this current world we live in. I wouldn't be too eager to give that right up, just to keep mom happy, you know? It is possible to keep one's cultural heritage and identity intact, even if one doesn't subscribe to individual pieces of it.
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sKePTiKal

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2011, 09:20:22 AM »
So, today... I'm thinking I kinda understand those women who essentially are saying: Take my hubby, PLEASE! I'm also reminded of the reports of Japanese women committing suicide after their husbands retire ...

Despite the fact, that hubs and I are together almost constantly 24/7... from the time I wake up till the time my lights go out at night... if I go somewhere to do something alone - he "gets lonely" and comes & tracks me down. He won't eat unless I do. He claims to not be able to "do" anything on his own without my assistance. If I'm here writing too long... he whines. Like a child tugging at my skirts - mommy, mommy!

Our constant struggle is over his ability to do tasks, solo - whether it's sorting and recycling his magazines, washing dishes... organizing his workspace and files, even his garage. Yet the man was very competent in his work life. And quite social, as well. And he doesn't seem to understand my need to go do things all by myself, either. This doesn't bode well for starting to do creative work again, does it? I had one of my famous "meltdowns" yesterday, because I was trying to clean up, visualize further decorating ideas, put away our creative, christmas-y mess... so that I could wrap presents. I tend to "flit" as he says, from one type of task to another if it's in my direct path. Progressively accomplishing a totality of clean, in the space. Every step I took - he was in front of me. Every move I made, there he was... and of course, he made comments and asked a lot of what are you doing now?? questions and worst of all: I was trying to work and he just stood there watching me. This is his definition of "helping".

aaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhh!!!

We have talked about this for 10 years. I have explained that I need time alone. With other people. Without him. That it drives me up a wall to have someone stand around and watch me work - when there are things that he could be doing. And that I resent being made responsible for cleaning up his messes... and that I can't take care of everything around the house all by myself - I need his active participation... but not in the way he likes to do this: telling me what I'm doing wrong and then inserting himself into the process, so that once again the divide and conquer strategy is sabotaged.

When he's working - he does want me to stand there and pat him on the back and make suggestions. He needs his gold stars and hubby points. The minute I turn my attention to something productive -- he stops; it's as if he needs an audience to perform. And then he's interrupting what I'm doing....

On the one hand, I feel like he absolutely doesn't understand the need to be alone that I have; why I enjoy it... and I completely don't understand his need for my attention, every waking minute of his existence either. How on earth did he put in those long hours at work without me???  I'm not buying the "I love you more" line either. It's almost as if he doesn't trust the strength of the relationship enough, for each of us to have our own individual lives within it. SIGH............. I keep telling him that was one of the other wives; not me.

[/vent]
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 09:24:42 AM by PhoenixRising »
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Guest

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2011, 01:34:58 PM »
PR!!!

Quote
aaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhh!!!

How about subscribing him to a riveting online forum for his fave subject?

I don't know how you cope, I really don't!

The problem we have is: who's turn is it on the pc???? Two pcs would solve the problem but hey, we'd start sending each other chat messages from across the room...

Hopalong

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2011, 03:35:29 PM »
NLAS, I am sorry you feel so despairing.
You need to befriend YOU, the person who is neither daughter nor mate.

It's your recognition of a SELF that needs your love, your energy and thought...not your slave self who is bullied by mother and tormented by anxiety over a present or absent or potential mate. The real and whole person inside you, whom you have rejected.

This doesn't mean you will be alone forever. You are young! I know people who married in their 40s...even a couple in their 50s.

It means until you can befriend being with yourself, no companion or label or status will fix these feelings.

I feel for you. Please don't give up.
But tackle the issue of recognizing and healing and befriending yourself, hopefully with a brilliant wise therapist.

The other people in your life aren't up to the challenge, and I believe can't help you with this deep identity healing.
You can still turn to them for connection, but don't look to your mother or any mate for this ultimate answer, the actual recognition that you really are a person. Not a label, or a role.

My wish for you is that you will assert this over and over, not just in defiance, but in experiencing love of yourself.

YOU can help yourself, with a therapist ally.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2011, 05:01:12 PM »
OH, FW... we don't lack for multiple pcs... his currently resides in the "office" which is conveniently located for me, as my studio space. I'm making one last effort to convince him the space has to be at least accomodating for that activity... or I'm moving it to the pool house!!!!!!!! At least it's a big house - and we can separate that way. PROBLEM is that he will always track me down... saying "I couldn't find you"... with his sad-dog look.

What he doesn't realize yet - despite setting it off multiple times already - is that in my unconscious vernacular, he is asking me to kick him. And I hate myself when I kick him. Dammit. This stuff doesn't even feel important enough for me to vent about it, but if I don't... yaaaah! crazy lady time. What a weird dance to do... like two over-stuffed turkeys fighting over a pile of grain... ACK!! to quote Bill the Cat.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2011, 05:51:51 PM »
Oh how difficult. PR...wow.

Your description reminds me of a very insecurely attached small dog who comes to work with my coworker, who is alternately doting and controlling (way too much) of him. The result of her overwhelming domination is that he is literally incapable of relaxing if she's out of his sight, even momentarily. It's distressing to see. He doesn't know how to be a dog on his own, interacting with the world. (She also can be cruel.)

I think a lot about dog language. There's a kind of fear that goes along with clinging.
From the outside, though I'm sure it's both, it looks mostly like a fear-attachment, not an affection-attachment. In people, may additionally have a lot to do with intraversion and extraversion...old news.

Somebody's too powerful. That's probably you. (Which is not a blame thing.)

I have been the incredibly anxious clinger, and also the clingee.

Both are misery.

Glad you're spelling it out, taking another look.

xo
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2011, 07:13:58 AM »
Yah... Hops & tt... last night he apologizes (yet again) for irritating me and then says I'm all he's got. Talk about feeling only yay-high... and yet this is where our "us" resides - I felt the echo of the same kind of gaping loss in him, that I had. I knew that he knew and I didn't have to explain.

You've both got valid points and x-ray vision insights. I think I'm coming down with a more serious form of head-cold than I've been fighting for a week... and am not even making much sense to myself this morning. Maybe when the front moves offshore a bit more, my head will clear. It's quite possible that not feeling well... I'm looking for a problem where none exists...

We'd both like to be taken care of by a good mommy. We just have to figure out how to do that for each other.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

sKePTiKal

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2011, 05:07:18 PM »
yeah, well I'll be right behind ya in line -- or butting in front of you: OH LOOK! A naked Santa!!   hee-hee!

no, I'm not feeling much better and yes, I had my chicken soup. At least my nose is giving me 10 mins between sniffles now.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Meh

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2011, 01:05:29 AM »
I'm sick also, I have the stomach flu...urppp. Total yuck.

Managed to try on a velvet Christmas dress that fits but I don't have shoes, purse etc. that go along with it.

After chit-chatting a little on this topic here.. (flirting)...well I decided I would go ahead and flirt more.

I think the outcome is maybe people think I am generally friendlier? Also I now have a guy who is six years younger than me texting me and calling me....that was probably not a great idea. He seems rather nice and my goodbye attempt just wasn't strong enough I guess...most likely it will peter out eventually. He is some sort of salesman...they can be persuasive...I admit it, I might as well be an attention whore now. I like the attention, that can't be bad really...that must just be human. Its okay to want attention. What was just fun has become a bit of a burden/distraction though?

I just spent two hours talking to him on the phone.

Maybe I need to cut him off. Is that really something I need to do?.....hummm...I don't really know right now.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 09:57:12 PM by Boat that Rocks »

sKePTiKal

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2011, 07:50:32 AM »
Hi Boat - if my typing falls apart, it's because I have a new 'puter and I haven't kept up with new techie stuff, since quitting my job a couple years ago. I'm either hitting wrong keys or typing online settings needs some tweaks.

I'm sorry you're not feeling well! Hope you can keep some good food down soon. I think I've kicked my cold; it was weird - I was totally down for the count for 24 hrs, slept like a log (thank you cold medicine)... and was just fine the next day. Something fishy about that!

Look - your new guy... it helps a lot if you can think of him as a friend, for now. Just enjoy the attention and connection-feeling as much as you can. You might set some boundaries with him, to see how he reacts... I can't talk to you from ________ to __________ or on Tuesdays. Ask him if there are times you should avoid reaching out to him, too. Explanation: you both have personal things to do in your own life and while you're enjoying each other's company there are reasonable limits and other important things. Tell him you don't want to be clingy or something like that... but keep flirting... lots of couples have plenty of autonomy and space within the relationship... and that means there's a high level of trust that developed over time. Everybody and every relationship is a bit different. It will be interesting to watch his response to boundaries... and your own, too. 

24/7 togetherness is fantastic - for awhile. Especially when you're still getting to know each other. But it can also make me want to run away - very quickly and very far - because of my fear of being smothered by another person. The "friend" category doesn't have any set definitions; a high level of intimacy is still possible... but it does have the advantage of lowering that fear factor, wiping out expectations & some of the negative associations we have with words & events like "date", "going out", "boyfriend", "relationship"... that absolutely get in the way of simply enjoying being together, and feeling connected to and appreciated by... another person. One feeling I have tells me when I have a good friend... or when the relationship might be getting to be more than that, in an OK way... and that's when I feel protected - that he's on my side - and will watch my back.

And if he brings you chicken soup and hangs around to cheer you up... he might be a keeper!  Feel better soon.
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Meh

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2011, 12:37:53 AM »
Well, I evaded because it was meant to be a passing entertaining flirtation, tonight though I told him about my personal situation in no flowery terms. Didn't go over very well....don't think he will be calling me again. I laugh at myself with the darkest humor possible, oh well. There is just no way to light up this Christmas tree...wink

APRIL FOOLS!....no really I am a skank.....Fa la la la la la---LA---LA---LA----LAAAA

Somehow I feel like the bigger person in the end even though I get it that people don't understand. The bigger person even if that doesn't make sense because I CAN sit with myself and try not to put hate onto myself.

Thing is often one flirts before they get to know the other person really well, as a kind of preliminary. It doesn't often happen that a person gets to know another really well and then flirts after the fact. Well, I guess this will learn him to not be so naive.

The guy wasn't even near to being wealthy and that was never my focus (my point being he isn't super "better" than me)....sort of makes me ask myself now....why exactly is he excused from jerkdom. Banished to Jerkdom.
I was playing at flirting and it took off like a horse with my leg stuck in the stirrup, but now I feel like I played a MEAN JOKE ON HIM!!!!!!! Why would I even feel that way!!! Makes no sense.

I don't feel very good about it though, sort of confirms in cement almost that I am not only in, but a part of the "underworld", a lower eschelon of bottom dwellers.

Needed a break from seriousness, needed some sweetness but I knew that I was only proving something disappointing to myself.
At least I got called "lovely" out of it....haven't heard that in a long time.
Why did I have to tell him the truth? Now I see the appeal in elaborate fibbery. I should have lied to hear more "lovely,lovely,lovely" but I  can't do stuff like that it's going too far.

I like the sweet nice goody goody guys....but really I should be flirting with the scary skinheads.

There I vented about my messed up life that should be one big social experiment and not even called a "LIFE".
Anywho more to write somewhere else. another day, another time

Boy the board gets still around X-mas
Peace Y'all
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 02:51:51 AM by Boat that Rocks »

sKePTiKal

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2011, 08:50:11 AM »
Well, Boat... just like you take a risk in flirting, so does the guy. It's up to him to be responsible for his feelings and boundaries and taking his own chances. Not your job to protect him.

But I wonder: is it possible that you started to like him, for real, just a little bit?
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Hopalong

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2011, 01:41:43 PM »
Hey Boat.
Occurring to me that maybe the focus needs to be on boundaries (self and others) and relating in a healthy way, no matter with whom.

IOW, if one "gets" or learns to gradually get closer to...

strong sense of self
healthy boundaries
assertiveness
I-statements
present-moment
and play

Flirting could evolve out of that. I think focusing on it as a separate distinct behavior can generate confusion or frustration.

At least it does for me. (Whole sets of cultural shorthand, assumptions, and "scores" just rush in. Overwhelmingly paralytic. Or triggering.)

If I think of healthy reciprocal communication that takes turns, is present-focused, is honest and is safe and playful...well then sexuality could be
one thing that's expressed. Or creativity. Or nurturing. Or delight.

The honesty part is connected to the boundaries part which is connected to the self-care part.

Rambling,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Meh

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Re: .............
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2011, 01:50:32 PM »
Looks like he didn't totally go away afterall....but hay, things are not fun anymore right. He is trying to tell me that he doesn't judge people but I think he just doesnt want to look bad. I can't process it all right now I need to go to an appointment.

Hops, I like your ramble...helps me to clarify my own thoughts.

Is this one of those things that maybe I shouldn't think my way through? why not just throw myself into it like a goofy idiot :)
I know its reckless. I know.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 02:01:58 PM by Boat that Rocks »

Meh

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Re: New thread for flirting, opposite sex relationship stuff
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2011, 01:56:21 PM »
But I wonder: is it possible that you started to like him, for real, just a little bit?

I don't know him that well, he has that charming thing going on. Could charm the pants off of the president. We like each other's company a lot, we have just hung out and talked nothing beyond that.

What is "like" any ways? We all need our hearts to be transformed in someway....the heart just becomes helplessly addicted to love....like the song.

Isn't it our job to protect other people that we are involved with though???
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 01:58:13 PM by Boat that Rocks »