Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: KayZee on November 23, 2012, 02:05:23 PM
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Aggghhh....
I'm beginning to feel like a broken record with all these NC problems. The same crap seems to happen every couple of weeks: my whole family leaps on me all at once, like jackals, or wolves, or whatever animals hunt in packs.
A little update/back story...
- I'm two weeks from my due date and still trying to finish up a work deadline as I wait for baby. My in-laws just arrived for a three week visit, so I'm not feeling quite so blue/isolated/family-less. I really, really enjoy my in-law's company and they are so helpful around the house and good with the kids.
- A few weeks ago, I heard from GC sister again. She called me up and got really aggressive, asking why I haven't sent her piece of writing to a work colleague. I answered because she hadn't finished the piece of writing, and I didn't feel comfortable sending work unless it was finished. But then, GC sis just started railing at me. I caved in saying, "Are you asking me to send it now? (she hadn't asked anything, just attacked me). Fine then, I'll send it now. G-bye." Typical GC sis behavior. Only calls when she needs something/wants to use me. I kind of emotionally detached after that. Realized we will never ever have a close, sisterly relationship. She'll never care about me or call just to chat. Been sort of grieving my whole family's hopeless dysfunction, not just coming to terms with NM.
- Sent a snail mail letter a few weeks ago to NM and co-N, enabling Dad, saying we're too overwhelmed with the pregnancy/forthcoming new baby and won't be traveling or hosting any holidays this year. Dad emailed me back from some new email address (one I hadn't blocked when I went NC) and seemed much more empathetic and less N-ish than he has in past communications. Saying he understood. And also, the kids' xmas presents were "too big to mail" and maybe they could drop them by some afternoon after the new baby is born. I said, "Fine. Sounds good. A day visit, only a couple of hours. See the new baby, exchange gifts, whatever. I'll let you know when." Hopefully, my in-laws will still be here, and there will be witnesses--people who will force my pressure my parents to be on their best/not-so-abusive behavior.
Anyway, barrage of emails and phone calls today. From both dad and GC-sis. This is the way it always works. Everyone swoops down and attacks me all at once. Dad emailing to say, he tried to call me and wish me a happy thanksgiving (we'd already done a thanksgiving email) and my cell phone carrier restricted his call (I'd blocked him), demanding to know what is going on? You know what's going on. I don't want to talk to you. I've asked for NC.
I've ignored Dad's email so far, and just don't want to get sucked back into drama of having to demand my space again (then they will lash out at me and attack me again). But then, of course, GC sis has started calling me out of the blue at the exact same time, clearly to report back to my dad about my phone number (I haven't blocked her). I've ignored sis' calls too. I just can't take it. It feels like they're just trying to stir up some holiday-shit, attack me, take their misery out on someone.
I don't know what to do. I don't want to engage with them any more than I've already done when I said, "Fine. I'll let you come and see your new granddaughter very briefly after she's born"). There is nothing more to say. If I engage, they will attack me. If I keep ignoring them, will they go away? It all feels like another set-up/head game and I don't want any part in it.
Another part of me feels like they do this every pregnancy. Right before my due date, when I'm at my most uncomfortable and preoccupied, they make a full-scale attempt to try to fuck with me.
Agghhh, please help. When will this cycle ever end? I don't want to toyed with anymore.
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You need to occupy yourself - wholly and totally committed - to something else. As a practical matter - a way to stuff your brain full of something else, so there's no time to let thoughts wander back to rehashing all the same time-worn paths of futility. Blocking more email/phone calls wouldn't be "mean" either. Just try to convince yourself that you need to postpone whatever experience of them, is ultimately inevitable.
It's the best thing for your stress levels and the little one. You're the one in control of that - not them. (Despite all the entitlement they think they have.)
Hugs to you, Kay...
and remember: they don't have a real grasp of boundaries or reality... so whatever they choose to lob at you isn't based in reality either.
Breathe. Enjoy the gorgeous fall weather (or snow... if you're getting some!) and simply make your nest for the new one, in peace.
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Thanks P.R.:)
Don't know why it's so hard to put it out of my mind. Bad habits on my end too, I guess. The patterns are still there; it's sooooo easy to let them ruin my day, make me crazy, make it difficult to concentrate on my work or my kids.
Snowfall tonight! Gonna try to take your advice, take on some projects, concentrate on weatherproofing some windows and making sure I've got everything together for the hospital.
Thank you so much for listening. And for letting me talk it all through when I was well on my way to bottling it up and feeling hopeless!... Kay x
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Hi Kay,
It will be on your mind, but that's because you are human and dealing with real emotions and real life. See it as a sign they haven't managed to drive you completely crazy yet :)
I'd just ignore. You've been very clear in your requests for space, privacy and so on. You've been polite and thoughtful. I remember an earlier post about your sister and this unfinished thing she's written, you told her then you'd send it when it was finished and she's ignored that and is bothering you again.
I found things changed for me when I started to control what I focused on. For me, that was my son, my health, our home, money, my friends - in short I wanted a better life for both of us. So when I found myself getting angry about my mum, I went for a long walk or took my son out somewhere nice - something positive for us. If I got upset about my step-dad, I'd clear out a cupboard or do some gardening - something productive. It's still a work in progress but it is helping.
Work to your script now, not theirs. You've asked them to stay away, they are refusing to. So act as if they are doing what you asked and try to focus on your time with your in-laws, your kids and most importantly, yourself. It's good that you're at a point where you don't need the drama, for a long time I think I was as addicted to feeling bad and being their victim as they were addicted to making me feel that way (I'm not suggesting that's the same for you, just trying to say that it's very healthy that you find yourself wanting space from what they do).
Ignore, ignore, ignore! Eventually it gets easier (((((((((Kay)))))))))))
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(((((((((((KayZee)))))))))))))))))))
These jackals/jackasses will NEVER recognize boundaries because they just DON'T CARE! Their entire world view is: "EFF you, ME FIRST!" I guess it's time to block ALL of their points of contact and ask the hubs if he can assist in guarding the castle from any further invasions. When your in-laws arrive to help, please recruit their assistance in keeping these invaders out. You're going to need it, especially when you go into labor and after the baby is born!
If the "Princess GC" sends you a piece of garbage that isn't good enough to put on the bottom of a bird cage, I would let it sit and ROT instead of bothering your friends with it! If the "Princess GC" somehow manages to contact you about it, state that the mail hasn't arrived yet, or it could be tied up in the Christmas rush, or whatever. Then let the hubs take over and have him tell "Princess GC" that you are now in full nesting mode and to LEAVE YOU ALONE!
Their entire world view is: "EFF you, ME FIRST" so turn the tables on them! EFF THEM!!!!
Bones
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I think ignoring phone calls you don't wish to take is just fine.
Ditto blocking emails.
And ditto the getting busy with things that are positive and productive for you.
I think where you feel most vulnerable is in the weak/frozen/inner "melting" feeling you get when any of them approaches.
All the practical "block" methods are important but what will make them more effective and comfortable over time is inner
work. It's the fact that you feel so vulnerable that makes it so difficult for you to set (and re-set and re-set) and hold boundaries.
Or, that's the only side of it you can control.
If the FOC is going to compulsively reach out, when you don't want them to, you have only two things you can do, both of which are learnable, doable, and will become easier with a lot of support, practice, and time.
1) set boundaries, communicate them clearly, and hold them when they're tested
2) get therapy, support groups, read books, seek assertiveness training, so you don't suffer BEFORE or AFTER you set a boundary
As you begin to do this more consistently and more calmly, and as you begin to feel like a strong and unscared person (this is what is going to happen the more you heal -- you are not doomed to feel your current emotions always, you reallly will begin to feel differently) ... it will be something like "weather" in your life. Times when you've got to stop and deal with it, but you will not take it personally.
love you,
Hops
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Thank you Tup!
I think I was as addicted to feeling bad and being their victim as they were addicted to making me feel that way (I'm not suggesting that's the same for you, just trying to say that it's very healthy that you find yourself wanting space from what they do).
I can definitely relate to this, and have been thinking a lot on the matter. I don't know whether I'm just addicted to the role I've always played in this dysfunctional psychodrama (and it feels weird to step away and let the part go unfilled) or whether there's something almost PTSD-y going on.
Lately, it's been feeling like the latter. When this kind of thing goes down, I toss and turn all night long for days afterward. Even when I do manage to sleep I have horrible weird disjointed nightmares about NM and the rest of family. Whenever FOO triggers me, I completely shut down for a few days and it feels very hard to live in the present...my body feels like there's a real emergency going on and the threat of danger is real. I zone out when people are talking to me, miss whole bits of conversation and tv/movies. Find it difficult not to let high-volume toddler noise/tantrums overwhelm me.
I think it's definitely time to find a good therapist...at least for the next few months before I'm facing expensive health insurance problems again. I just feel so alone sometimes. Like there's few people to talk to and even fewer that understand. The few really well-meaning people I confide in don't seem to get it. They seem to think I can't get over whatever childhood stuff happened to me. But, form where I'm standing, it is all happening right now, every day, in such subtle deniable ways. I feel FOO's desperation. All their other scapegoats have gotten the hell out of dodge. I want to keep myself out of their cross hairs, but I feel so cornered, stalked, surrounded sometimes.
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((((Bones)))))
Hugs of thanks! I think I am going to set up some more blocks today.
I think I've been holding out hope for years that my sister and I might be able to have a relationship sometime in the far-away future, when she finds some more maturity/inner strength and isn't so dependent on NM. But the sad fact is: we have never been close. We have never had a relationship. NM has always stood firmly between us. And even, years ago--when I thought we were finally connecting--sis was just reporting everything back to NM in secret, using even banalities about my life to stir the pot, using anything she gathered to fuel the family drama/dysfunction.
Blocking sis, ignoring her, all of it, feels like finally letting go of the fantasy that it can be okay, that I can have some family ties. The truth is: everyone my family camp is really, deeply mentally ill. And the rest of FOO has no interest in facing reality, getting help, healing themselves. The best I can do is plug on, on my own, and try my very best to get better myself.
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Thank you Hops,
It's so reassuring to hear this won't last forever. That's what I struggle with most: this feeling that there is no escape, that I'll never get out of the cage NM and FOO have put me in.
This is absolutely how it feels! weak/frozen/inner "melting" feeling you get when any of them approaches.
Just totally debilitating and frightening. The feeling is deep in my brain, firing off warning sirens to every part of my body, and it lasts for two days before and two days after family contact.
I would really love to get to the point where any small interaction with FOO doesn't have the capacity to ruin my concentration and emotional well-being for the week. But at the moment, that seems utterly impossible. So I think, for the time being, I will have to keep relying on these physical, technological blocks while I try to build up my emotional, inner blocks.
thank you so much for listening...Kay x
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Oh dear. I really feel for you. It is so, so difficult dealing with Ns during a pregnancy. You need emotional support not emotional sabotage, etc. You might want to rethink allowing Ns to see the baby post-delivery when you are at a weak/tired point. Sometimes, the only way to disengage is to end the contact. It seems the minute you waver and permit a visit, then they increase their attack. Abusers, beyond even pity.
Reach out for those who will sustain and love you during this wonderful time! So glad your in-laws are supportive. Also, the "toys are too big to mail" routine has been used by my Ns as a ruse to visit and attack. Don't fall for that one.
Wishing you comfort, joy and peace.
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Thank you Butterfly:)
I'm so glad to know I'm not alone--that you've been there before and gotten through it.
Ns really seem to ramp up their nastiness in late pregnancy, don't they? At least that's been my experience. Last time I was pregnant, NM came to visit a week before my due date and spent the whole time mocking me ("HA! Kay, you just waddled! You're literally waddling!"), stressing me out ("I'm soooo bored. You need to go into labor already. Go bounce on a trampoline or something") or speaking to me as though I was obese (the fact that there was an actual baby in my stomach seemed to be totally lost on her, she kept giving me long condescending lectures about how I shouldn't be drinking whole milk or using butter, how I should be doing the same kind of exercise she did, it had helped her "lose soo much weight").
The "too big to mail" schtick really is a schtick. Gonna beef up my tech blocks and see how I feel once the new baby arrives. I really, truly don't want to see my folks...don't want them anywhere near my family, but I find it so hard not to be swayed by others. DH in particular. He knows how horrendous every visit with my parents is...he sees the head games they pull on us...he's supported me in my decision to forgo the holidays with them and go NC, but he still feels conflicted where the new baby is concerned. He feels my parents have some right to meet her when the time comes. DH's family is just so supportive and normal, it's hard for him to fully accept that he's dealing with people who are deeply abnormal. Which is a totally healthy human reaction, I think. I mean, a normal brain can't wrap its mind around N-ish behavior; it's easiest to either deny it or run.
Anyway, thank you so much for listening and the support!
This pregnancy has really made me see how badly I need to sort my FOO situation and myself out. I realized yesterday, that I've spent the past couple of years not really challenging myself, not even paying attention to myself (fact that I didn't realize I was pregnant til the second trimester is a good indication of this!). Feel like I'm not really living, just trying to emotionally survive on some day to day level. I've sort of been in a half-numbed out haze because I haven't wanted to deal with all of this. But I've got to deal with it, can't go on living this way:(
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KayZee,
My personal opinion. If you don't want to see your tormentors, don't do it. It appears that their showing up will do emotional harm to you and perhaps the newborn. I'm a firm believer that infants have a keen sense of their surroundings and especially conflict. My vote is for you and the baby to be cloistered from the toxic people now and perhaps for a long period of time after the baby is born. It appears that DH is a very sympathetic person, a wonderful characteristic but for yours and the baby's wellbeing I would respectfully decline and not give in to the pressure that is at work.
tt
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((((Bones)))))
Hugs of thanks! I think I am going to set up some more blocks today.
I think I've been holding out hope for years that my sister and I might be able to have a relationship sometime in the far-away future, when she finds some more maturity/inner strength and isn't so dependent on NM. But the sad fact is: we have never been close. We have never had a relationship. NM has always stood firmly between us. And even, years ago--when I thought we were finally connecting--sis was just reporting everything back to NM in secret, using even banalities about my life to stir the pot, using anything she gathered to fuel the family drama/dysfunction.
Blocking sis, ignoring her, all of it, feels like finally letting go of the fantasy that it can be okay, that I can have some family ties. The truth is: everyone my family camp is really, deeply mentally ill. And the rest of FOO has no interest in facing reality, getting help, healing themselves. The best I can do is plug on, on my own, and try my very best to get better myself.
((((((((((((((((((((((KayZee)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I'm visualizing you being surrounded by THICK castle walls with the drawbridge pulled up and closed.....the moat filled with hungry alligators....the battlements filled with Klingon warriors, armed to the teeth, ready to fight off any and all invaders who attempt to FORCE themselves on you and the baby WITHOUT your permission! Q'Pla!
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Awww, KayZee.... this should be a happy time, looking forward to a new baby, and enjoying the holidays with help, and everyone tip toeing around to keep the peace! SO glad you enjoy your IL's!
I don't see there ever being any peace with your family around though: /
If I was you, and I realize I'm not, I'd let your father and sister know they have the choice of respecting your bounaries or the relationship effectively gets shut down to whatever level you need it to be shut down to get some peace.
If they can't respect your boundaries, they're the ones making the choice to be placed further outside your life.... wherever that may be.
I'd say it, e-mail it, snail mail it and let the entire family know in no uncertain terms....
it's their choice.
I hope you can find some serenity in the matter, and very soon.
Lighter
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This is a hard but really powerful declaration, imo, ((((KZ))))
This pregnancy has really made me see how badly I need to sort my FOO situation and myself out. I realized yesterday, that I've spent the past couple of years not really challenging myself, not even paying attention to myself (fact that I didn't realize I was pregnant til the second trimester is a good indication of this!). Feel like I'm not really living, just trying to emotionally survive on some day to day level. I've sort of been in a half-numbed out haze because I haven't wanted to deal with all of this. But I've got to deal with it, can't go on living this way:(
I thnk you deserve LOADS of support and I have such faith you can find it, and at your own pace, gradually unwrap and deal with it.
I have had critical help from a kind, invested, serious and compassionate T. One precious hour 2x-3x a month, with no guilt and no recrimination, just a safe, insightful space where I can feel safely, and then begin to think safely. To examine what I need to deal with.
You deserve that. And social, emotional, community support...sometimes when one looks for it from a partner, they can't carry the helpful new vision all alone.
love
Hops
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DHs can be very, very helpful. They want to help - even when they can't completely understand.
Just point out to him, that as uncomfortable, guarded and on-edge as he feels around your NM -- it's worlds worse being you and having to deal with them because of all the history and the fact that they're not "normal". My hubs now dreads any contact my d (A) even more than I do myself. Because of how long it takes me to "wash my brain" and recover my balance afterwards!! LOL. He has confrontation issues - so he withdraws completely (under protest) and leaves me to deal with it alone, or with H. (He is afraid of how awful it is and doesn't want to make it any worse by saying plainly what his feelings are.) I hear ALL about what's going on in his mind afterwards, though. Most of the time, it's really helpful too.
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Thank you Bones, Lighter, Hops & PR!
Bones: What I wouldn't give for a moat filled with alligators! I LOVE this image. Gonna wrap it around me like a security blanket when things get tough.
Lighter: So true. I'm coming to accept the fact that there will be no peace--not ever--with my family around. I am very tired, occasionally lonely, but totally unwilling to deal with the constant gang-behavior anymore. I only wish (my x-mas wish!) that they would stop circling me, stop coming at me, stop using the same language and the same mind-fuckery. You're absolutely right; they are the ones who keep creating the conflict and escalating it. It's passive aggressive and crazy-making.
Hops: Thank you. I've had a couple years off from therapy (I just couldn't afford it), and only hope in my new city I can find someone who's the kind of right-match you have with your T! I did a little research tonight and found a T in town who seems really compassionate and experienced in this kind of thing. I only hope she's got the time/inclination to take on new clients and thinks I'm a good fit for her too. Also, I hope I can find the solo-time for therapy with the hardcore breast-feeding I have on the horizon!
P.R.: I know just what you mean about "washing your brain!" It takes days to return to homeostasis, doesn't it? Yes, I imagine it's very hard to be a DH in these situations. And it really doesn't fall on their shoulders to "fix" it. I'm glad, in a way, that DH has limited understanding where FOO is concerned. If he understood the games NM and her cronies play, he'd likely either be N himself or he'd be seriously, deeply messed up from lifelong N-encounters (N-counters?) in the manner that I am. Sending you and your DH lots of strength and love through all those frightening confrontations and tough decisions you've had to make.
Came to the board really wound up tonight, but find you all have already helped me "recover my balance," in P.R.'s words! I'd gotten the below email from GC-sister, and felt deeply upset and depressed about it. It was like NM was speaking through her. She uses the same formal, passive-aggressive tone as my parents. She uses the same excuse as my parents (never in my life has sis given me or my family anything that's "too big to mail"--totally, completely ridiculous). Anyway, I felt totally cornered and gang-attacked again. And I really wanted to lash out at her, but I knew that doing that would only give her and FOO exactly the response that they've been looking for: more reasons to scapegoat, more proof that I have "an anger problem."
So, I kept it brief and unemotionally charged. Just said, essentially: "Sorry. I'm days from my due date and I have limited time, energy, access to the car DH and I share. And it isn't feasible to drive down to see her or schedule a time for her to come to my house." I wanted to ALL-CAPS SCREAM that I wish she would stop talking/acting/harassing/poking/provoking me in the exact same manner of NM. But after a few minutes of blind fury, I realized that I felt bad for her. Because as lost as I feel sometimes, she's lost even worse. She's actually utterly and completely voiceless. She's obliterated herself and vacated her life/will/relationships to make room for my mother. I suspect, deep down, most GCs don't feel privileged or lucky.
Hey Kay,
I hope you are feeling ok, I know you are approaching your due date. When you can, I need you to please pick a date & time that I can drop off the kids' Christmas presents. There's just too much to ship and I would like them to have everything for Christmas morning. I can drive up to the house, or if you would rather, you or your DH can meet me somewhere in between. Just please let me know as soon as you can.
Thanks,
Sis
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Argh, passive aggressive control is just so difficult to cope with! That note reads perfectly well and the majority of people reading it would think it was completely reasonable. Except - They know your baby's due (and have known you're pregnant for a while) so most people would assume you might not be up to visits/visitors and would have bought gifts to send or sent money for you to buy gifts yourself.
Except - you can mail washing machines so unless they've bought the kids an elephant for Christmas it's kind of hard to imagine what is sooooo huge it can't be posted.
Except - Buying huge presents without consulting the parents first is a bit of a no no in my book. Have you got enough room? Is it something the kids will actually play with? Is it some huge thing your DH will be expected to spend all of Christmas Day putting together?
Except - you've been telling them for months that you don't want to see them - so obviously the sensible thing to do is go and buy something enormous that needs to be delivered.
Except - given the aggro that it's causing most people would have exchanged what they've purchased for something smaller, plus with internet shopping these days you can arrange to have gifts delivered direct or arrange pick ups from local shops. It's not that difficult to arrange.
I feel your frustration! I've been through similar with my lot. Breathe. Focus on your babies. Your new T sounds good - take the baby with you and breast feed all the while! In all honesty Kay, I'd struggle to see how you'd genuinely have time to arrange this incredibly important present exchange with everything you have going on at the moment, even if they were lovely people and you were desperate to see them. Stay true to yourself. You're amazing xx
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Thank you Bones, Lighter, Hops & PR!
Bones: What I wouldn't give for a moat filled with alligators! I LOVE this image. Gonna wrap it around me like a security blanket when things get tough.
Lighter: So true. I'm coming to accept the fact that there will be no peace--not ever--with my family around. I am very tired, occasionally lonely, but totally unwilling to deal with the constant gang-behavior anymore. I only wish (my x-mas wish!) that they would stop circling me, stop coming at me, stop using the same language and the same mind-fuckery. You're absolutely right; they are the ones who keep creating the conflict and escalating it. It's passive aggressive and crazy-making.
Hops: Thank you. I've had a couple years off from therapy (I just couldn't afford it), and only hope in my new city I can find someone who's the kind of right-match you have with your T! I did a little research tonight and found a T in town who seems really compassionate and experienced in this kind of thing. I only hope she's got the time/inclination to take on new clients and thinks I'm a good fit for her too. Also, I hope I can find the solo-time for therapy with the hardcore breast-feeding I have on the horizon!
P.R.: I know just what you mean about "washing your brain!" It takes days to return to homeostasis, doesn't it? Yes, I imagine it's very hard to be a DH in these situations. And it really doesn't fall on their shoulders to "fix" it. I'm glad, in a way, that DH has limited understanding where FOO is concerned. If he understood the games NM and her cronies play, he'd likely either be N himself or he'd be seriously, deeply messed up from lifelong N-encounters (N-counters?) in the manner that I am. Sending you and your DH lots of strength and love through all those frightening confrontations and tough decisions you've had to make.
Came to the board really wound up tonight, but find you all have already helped me "recover my balance," in P.R.'s words! I'd gotten the below email from GC-sister, and felt deeply upset and depressed about it. It was like NM was speaking through her. She uses the same formal, passive-aggressive tone as my parents. She uses the same excuse as my parents (never in my life has sis given me or my family anything that's "too big to mail"--totally, completely ridiculous). Anyway, I felt totally cornered and gang-attacked again. And I really wanted to lash out at her, but I knew that doing that would only give her and FOO exactly the response that they've been looking for: more reasons to scapegoat, more proof that I have "an anger problem."
So, I kept it brief and unemotionally charged. Just said, essentially: "Sorry. I'm days from my due date and I have limited time, energy, access to the car DH and I share. And it isn't feasible to drive down to see her or schedule a time for her to come to my house." I wanted to ALL-CAPS SCREAM that I wish she would stop talking/acting/harassing/poking/provoking me in the exact same manner of NM. But after a few minutes of blind fury, I realized that I felt bad for her. Because as lost as I feel sometimes, she's lost even worse. She's actually utterly and completely voiceless. She's obliterated herself and vacated her life/will/relationships to make room for my mother. I suspect, deep down, most GCs don't feel privileged or lucky.
Hey Kay,
I hope you are feeling ok, I know you are approaching your due date. When you can, I need you to please pick a date & time that I can drop off the kids' Christmas presents. There's just too much to ship and I would like them to have everything for Christmas morning. I can drive up to the house, or if you would rather, you or your DH can meet me somewhere in between. Just please let me know as soon as you can.
Thanks,
Sis
((((((((((((((((((((((Kay Zee))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
As I was reading the e-mail from GC-Sis, I was seeing this image of this wooden marionette/string puppet being manipulated by the EVIL puppet mistress NM while the NM cackles EVILLY like an UGLY wart-nosed BITCHY WITCH. :evil: All that is left of the GC-Sis are empty, wooden eyes and a limp puppet body waiting for the next command by the EVIL puppet mistress.
I'm adding more Klingon warriors to the battlements of the castle and several more outside the castle walls brandishing Bath'Leths!!
Bones
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((((Tup)))) I can't quite thank you enough for understanding. Or tell you how comforting it is. How much it means to me.
Yes, to any reasonable person (or in a court of law or something) it would all sound COMPLETELY reasonable, even THOUGHTFUL! That's what bothers me so much. Bums me out. Makes me feel like I am the "crazy one," "the difficult one," "the bad one" (insert a million NM-isms here). The passive aggressiveness is maddening. I can't handle the nastiness disguised as being "loving."
Thank God for DH; real friends; my in-laws; you all on the board; not to mention my wild, kindhearted, self-possessed kids. All those people have taught me what emotional authenticity and real intimacy feels like. I think I know now (well, mostly) how to recognize people who are actually emotionally open, who want to connect and have my best interests at heart. And that is not, NOT how any of this holiday-related garbage with my family feels. Especially, this new stuff coming from my sister--a person who has mostly ignored me for the past five years except to 1) gang up on me with NM or 2) demand I do something for her (gimmme).
(((Bones)))) Thank you for the warriors! The puppet image is spot-on. And weirdly, it brings me right back to that box of puppets NM sent here all those weeks ago. I feel sorry for sis.
These days, in real life, my sis looks exactly as you described. Her eyes are just totally stunned like someone who's been caught by a bright camera flash; they're scared but totally vacant. And when we're together, she doesn't even acknowledge or speak to me. She doesn't speak directly to anyone. She just sits at NM's side like a parrot to a cartoon pirate and echos back everything NM says. I don't know what--if anything--could snap my sister out of the spell she's under. I think her mental health issues run even deeper than mine. And I've often wondered whether she might be BPD; she's got a long history of self-harm and chaos, plus serious emotional UPs and DOWNs that are just exhausting.
It's hard to watch sis trash her relationships, goals, life all for the sake of NM's (obviously never forthcoming) real love and approval. But I've been there myself. I know how frightened my sister must be. And I know how NM can amp up the charm offensive on whoever she finds most useful (a few years of occasional nice treatment and it's all too easy to start thinking NM's not the monster everyone makes her out to be. What IS so-and-so's problem?). We all know how much time, therapy, emotional energy and pain overcoming an N-parent requires. And GC-sis isn't really up for facing all that. She has always been someone who would rather dissociate and mentally "go" elsewhere. Ever since we were kids (and even now) she will shut herself in a room and watch the same DVDs over and over again, literally EVERYDAY, for months at a time. And it's like, she just leaves her body and lets the characters in the story consume her--exactly the same thing she does with my NM.
I've been thinking/feeling a lot about why I'm so upset by GC-sis, enabling-D and their gang-mentality and total mirroring of NM, and at the heart of it: I think it really feels now like NM has destroyed my family. Torched it. And I'm more alone than ever. It's like NM is this flesh-eating zombie who reduces everyone else to zombie behavior and language when she bites them. And yeah, hyperbolic as it is...the loneliness I'm feeling is sort of Apocalyptic. It's, like, there's no humanity left on the planet FOO. But maybe there never has been. Maybe all along, everyone's just been brutal, violent and emotionally starving. I just Googled "How to Kill a Zombie," and the first response was: "The undead are notoriously difficult to kill, the base reason being because they are already dead." Yes, that's it exactly. Everyone in my FOO is already dead. A few years ago, I felt dead too. And am still trying, very slowly, to revive.
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I think we close our eyes to the reality of it in order to cope. We accept bits a little at a time. We move back and forth, we can cope, we can't, we're being too harsh, we're not harsh enough, we're crazy and selfish, they're crazy and selfish. A punch in the face is what it is, it leaves a bruise, we can show other people and they say "Ouch" and most people consider it unacceptable. A 'loving' note about Christmas gifts speaks volumes by what it doesn't say and address, most other people can't see what we do, they think we're making a fuss over nothing, they can't see the hurt and we wonder if they're right. I think it's a bit like fixing a car - most of us can put the petrol in, pump the tyres up and check the oil, but you have to really know your stuff to get to the heart of the matter if it doesn't start. Stick with the people who get it! They're the ones who help the most.
And I did think, maybe you could tell your sis you'll come pick the presents up when she finishes that script she wants you to send to your friend? That might hold her off for another five years ;) xx
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Ah (((Tup)))! You're spectacular. Thank you for getting it!! This made me laugh out loud:
And I did think, maybe you could tell your sis you'll come pick the presents up when she finishes that script she wants you to send to your friend? That might hold her off for another five years Wink xx
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((((Tup)))) I can't quite thank you enough for understanding. Or tell you how comforting it is. How much it means to me.
Yes, to any reasonable person (or in a court of law or something) it would all sound COMPLETELY reasonable, even THOUGHTFUL! That's what bothers me so much. Bums me out. Makes me feel like I am the "crazy one," "the difficult one," "the bad one" (insert a million NM-isms here). The passive aggressiveness is maddening. I can't handle the nastiness disguised as being "loving."
Thank God for DH; real friends; my in-laws; you all on the board; not to mention my wild, kindhearted, self-possessed kids. All those people have taught me what emotional authenticity and real intimacy feels like. I think I know now (well, mostly) how to recognize people who are actually emotionally open, who want to connect and have my best interests at heart. And that is not, NOT how any of this holiday-related garbage with my family feels. Especially, this new stuff coming from my sister--a person who has mostly ignored me for the past five years except to 1) gang up on me with NM or 2) demand I do something for her (gimmme).
(((Bones)))) Thank you for the warriors! The puppet image is spot-on. And weirdly, it brings me right back to that box of puppets NM sent here all those weeks ago. I feel sorry for sis.
These days, in real life, my sis looks exactly as you described. Her eyes are just totally stunned like someone who's been caught by a bright camera flash; they're scared but totally vacant. And when we're together, she doesn't even acknowledge or speak to me. She doesn't speak directly to anyone. She just sits at NM's side like a parrot to a cartoon pirate and echos back everything NM says. I don't know what--if anything--could snap my sister out of the spell she's under. I think her mental health issues run even deeper than mine. And I've often wondered whether she might be BPD; she's got a long history of self-harm and chaos, plus serious emotional UPs and DOWNs that are just exhausting.
It's hard to watch sis trash her relationships, goals, life all for the sake of NM's (obviously never forthcoming) real love and approval. But I've been there myself. I know how frightened my sister must be. And I know how NM can amp up the charm offensive on whoever she finds most useful (a few years of occasional nice treatment and it's all too easy to start thinking NM's not the monster everyone makes her out to be. What IS so-and-so's problem?). We all know how much time, therapy, emotional energy and pain overcoming an N-parent requires. And GC-sis isn't really up for facing all that. She has always been someone who would rather dissociate and mentally "go" elsewhere. Ever since we were kids (and even now) she will shut herself in a room and watch the same DVDs over and over again, literally EVERYDAY, for months at a time. And it's like, she just leaves her body and lets the characters in the story consume her--exactly the same thing she does with my NM.
I've been thinking/feeling a lot about why I'm so upset by GC-sis, enabling-D and their gang-mentality and total mirroring of NM, and at the heart of it: I think it really feels now like NM has destroyed my family. Torched it. And I'm more alone than ever. It's like NM is this flesh-eating zombie who reduces everyone else to zombie behavior and language when she bites them. And yeah, hyperbolic as it is...the loneliness I'm feeling is sort of Apocalyptic. It's, like, there's no humanity left on the planet FOO. But maybe there never has been. Maybe all along, everyone's just been brutal, violent and emotionally starving. I just Googled "How to Kill a Zombie," and the first response was: "The undead are notoriously difficult to kill, the base reason being because they are already dead." Yes, that's it exactly. Everyone in my FOO is already dead. A few years ago, I felt dead too. And am still trying, very slowly, to revive.
((((((((((((((((Kay Zee)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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KZ I wonder whether there's a chance a carload of presents will arrive on your porch, soon.
Do you have a serenity-strategy for how you'll handle that, if your sister does deliver them regardless?
Maybe having a PRE-plan would help you feel in control. So you are not allowing your serenity to be hijacked again.
She's an addict (to the N-system), she can't change, so reasonable replies to her are kind of as useless as with your mother.
How about a PRE-plan of:
--not answering the door
--removing all delivered gifts to the car immediately, and on to Goodwill unopened
etc?
Is that what you need? Or if not, what are some ways you could have your boundary CLEARLY
defined in advance, so whatever she or they do, you will know what YOU will do?
That puts you back in control of your own inner space.
love
Hops
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Oh, Hops. You are so psychic....that or these N-games are so depressingly predictable. Thanks for suggesting a pre-plan. That would definitely help me feel more in control, I think. If NM, G-sis, anyone shows up here uninvited, I think I'm just going to bundle everyone into the car and say we have plans we can't break.
Anyway, I read your post right after I got the following from sis:
I can leave them on the driveway, it will no way inconvenience you. I love your kids, I picked out gifts for your kids, and I cant fathom any rational reason why they should go to waste. So with your permission, I would like to drive them up and ill leave them on your driveway.
It seriously makes my blood boil. As does the fact that I got an almost simultaneous email from my NM. What is WRONG with these email blocks--they don't seem to be working? And I am at the end of my rope with NM and G-sis working in tandem!!
Still, I am refusing to blow up. That is exactly what they want and I will not give it to them. Responded to g-sis with the following. This is the only way DH and I can think to handle this: let whole dysfunctional FOO come by for an hour after the baby is born, while my in-laws are still here for emotional support and vicarious sanity. Having sent it, will try to figure out how the hell to restore these constantly failing e-boundaries.
We are very grateful for the thought/care you put into Christmas. I will be in touch with you after we have the baby, and we can arrange a time for you (plus mom and dad) to come visit for the afternoon and bring your presents. Until I have the baby, I can't make these plans. I really hope you can find some way to understand and empathize with that. We are having a baby. Until the baby comes, we just can't commit to specific dates and have a lot on our plates/minds. Kay x
They are making me insane.
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Yikes. Sis's emails are not nice and even a person without N connections should be able to catch the tone. Notice that even though she mentions your approaching due date, she says nothing about the baby--it is as if your pregnancy is simply an inconvenience to her. Notice, too, her bullying: "I need you to . . ." so that "I can drop ..." and "I would like ..." so that you "can meet me" and "as soon as you can." Her email may mention gifts for your kids but it is really all about her need to control you.
And, her second email, where she mentions that she "can't fathom any rational reason why the toys should go to waste," is nothing but a verbal attack on you. Basically, she is telling you that you are the crazy one. And, does she really thinkg that dumping a pile of crap on your driveway is not an inconvenience?? I like Hops' suggestions. Yes, good to have a plan. If she drops off packages in the driveway, would that hamper your ability to get the car out and get to the hospital when the baby comes? I smell some sort of sabotage. Maybe it would help to have DH read some of the posts??
Thoughts and prayers for you, KayZee.
PS: One Christmas I received a package addressed to my daughters containing N Mom's old goves and scarves. The items were drenched in her perfume. It was disgusting and I immediately tossed the entire package in the garbage. Since then, I have had no trouble binning whatever comes.
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Old gloves and scarves! Why do Ns think so highly of their cast-offs and secondhand trash? My NM has spent the past couple of years doing the same. Dumping all sorts of crap off here because she wants to "downsize" (i.e. make room in her house so she can compulsively overspend on all new stuff), and DH and I are supposed to be, like, so honored and grateful. It's like NM thinks the fact that she once owned it increases its beauty and value.
Whew... Thanks for understanding, Butterfly. My rational mind knows that they're the ones behaving crazy. I mean, it is batshit insane to tell someone you're going to drive up to their house, dump a bunch of stuff on their driveway and peel away into the night. But, it all feels like such a set-up--such a game to make me appear difficult and crazy--that occasionally, at times, it's really hard not to succumb to feeling like I'm to blame.
GC-sis has always needed instant gratification. And in the past five years or so, it's only gotten worse. She's seriously chaotic. She only calls when she's in a manic state, foaming at the mouth with grandiose plans or demanding things. I'm gonna try not to take it too personally. Seems like the thing she really desperately wants (to be my NM's protector and hero) has very little to do with Christmas, my kids or me.
I'm not sure GC-sis realizes the way NM is using and gaslighting her. This all still seems like it's in reaction to that time, all those months ago, when I told NM she was not allowed to show up at my house uninvited. Feels like NM has created this scenario where now GC-sis (who has barely said two words to me in five years, let alone accepted any invitation to come visit) is now charging down my door to see me, leading me to turn her away, leading her to complain about me to NM and, voile, in NM's mind she still doesn't have to admit to herself that I'm a separate person with separate priorities and boundaries or that she's done anything wrong. The only thing that makes me really uncomfortable is GC-sis' history of getting volatile and violent when she's protecting my parents. The last time she played NM's attack dog, she tried to hit me.
I wonder if subtracting myself from the family drama has just made them all feel deeply unsettled, angry and scared. And the worst part is, likely, now that I'm ignoring them/keeping to myself, they don't even know who to take those uncomfortable emotions out on. Gonna try to hold my distance and store up some strength. Because I'm really ready to NC definitively, in no uncertain terms, for good, and I fear this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
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Old gloves and scarves! Why do Ns think so highly of their cast-offs and secondhand trash? My NM has spent the past couple of years doing the same. Dumping all sorts of crap off here because she wants to "downsize" (i.e. make room in her house so she can compulsively overspend on all new stuff), and DH and I are supposed to be, like, so honored and grateful. It's like NM thinks the fact that she once owned it increases its beauty and value.
Whew... Thanks for understanding, Butterfly. My rational mind knows that they're the ones behaving crazy. I mean, it is batshit insane to tell someone you're going to drive up to their house, dump a bunch of stuff on their driveway and peel away into the night. But, it all feels like such a set-up--such a game to make me appear difficult and crazy--that occasionally, at times, it's really hard not to succumb to feeling like I'm to blame.
GC-sis has always needed instant gratification. And in the past five years or so, it's only gotten worse. She's seriously chaotic. She only calls when she's in a manic state, foaming at the mouth with grandiose plans or demanding things. I'm gonna try not to take it too personally. Seems like the thing she really desperately wants (to be my NM's protector and hero) has very little to do with Christmas, my kids or me.
I'm not sure GC-sis realizes the way NM is using and gaslighting her. This all still seems like it's in reaction to that time, all those months ago, when I told NM she was not allowed to show up at my house uninvited. Feels like NM has created this scenario where now GC-sis (who has barely said two words to me in five years, let alone accepted any invitation to come visit) is now charging down my door to see me, leading me to turn her away, leading her to complain about me to NM and, voile, in NM's mind she still doesn't have to admit to herself that I'm a separate person with separate priorities and boundaries or that she's done anything wrong. The only thing that makes me really uncomfortable is GC-sis' history of getting volatile and violent when she's protecting my parents. The last time she played NM's attack dog, she tried to hit me.
I wonder if subtracting myself from the family drama has just made them all feel deeply unsettled, angry and scared. And the worst part is, likely, now that I'm ignoring them/keeping to myself, they don't even know who to take those uncomfortable emotions out on. Gonna try to hold my distance and store up some strength. Because I'm really ready to NC definitively, in no uncertain terms, for good, and I fear this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Morning, (((((((((((((((((((((((Kay Zee)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))).
As I was reading the last paragraph regarding the N's unsettled reactions to your going NC, the image that came to my mind was a large mobile that John Bradshaw used to illustrate one of his talks. He describes this scenario in his book: "John Bradshaw On: The Family - A Revolutionary Way of Self-Discovery". He used this mobile as an analogy for the family as a system and how, within a dysfunctional family, the dysfunctional ones will go to any length to maintain the status quo when one member starts recovering from the dysfunction and abuse. (When I was watching this lecture on PBS several years ago, a light bulb went on. When I was able to attend one of his workshops 20 years ago, I finally began to understand why I was self-medicating. All of this before I understood N's and NPD.)
I'll have to look and see if this book is still available through Amazon or not.
Edit in: Amazon still has this book along with an updated edition of it.
Bones
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I wonder if subtracting myself from the family drama has just made them all feel deeply unsettled, angry and scared. And the worst part is, likely, now that I'm ignoring them/keeping to myself, they don't even know who to take those uncomfortable emotions out on.
This is deeply insightful, kiddo.
The fact is, they're used to having you as a target, someone to pick on and at, someone to put down... to help them pretend they are "superior". It always seems to me, this is their raison d'etre.
So, when I suggest simply not playing their game - just stopping, no drama (which deprives them of another finger-point gloat) - this is why. Yep, it's true - they're beside themselves looking for a new target. My mom picked my sis-in-law... and GC-bro... while he tries to "make nice words" at his wife... is still completely under mom's thumb. So he can't take the stress and has arranged his life so that he's seldom home. Which leaves everyone else in a tense, with lots of explosive undercurrents, stalemate. Mom doesn't even call me to re-run her complaining, victim tape -- unless there's no one home... and I can only imagine, it's because she'd be called on her lies, right then and there. There are patterns that run through these situations that are predictable, sure. There's always some unique environmental and interpersonal details, too.
What you need is a total sensory cone of N-silence!! Where it's not even in your brain... not even a passing thought. I'm gonna prescribe something off the wall - fantasy island! Imagine yourself a place that your family can't intrude on -- whether it's a fortress or on another planet -- or they just can't find you. Invest some time in the details of the place: smells, touch, the works. Populate it with people you like. You have carte blanche -- so if you need a hunky looking pool boy to wait on you hand and foot - so be it! Or a pony... or whatever it might be that satisfies your whim of the moment - a mountain of chocolate?? (lol...) This is now your "happy place". Twice a day, drop in and see what's going on in your happy place... and hang out there. Even if it's only a couple minutes - since little ones have their own inner schedules - even that couple minutes will become part of your "normal" waking consciousness. And that helps to balance out -- and turn the binoculars around so that these N-things now look smaller and less important to you -- than when they proved the car mirror warning:
"objects may appear larger than in reality". Or something like that! hahaha!
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Aw, Kay, if it helps at all what you describe is pretty much word for word what my lot did to me over the years and I am so much happier and healthier now that I'm not around them - I'm hoping that will give you hope for the future?
They probably will up the ante, as you quite rightly notice, they will be looking for a new target if you no longer take on that role. My mum went through the roof when I stopped talking to her. She hassled people that knew me outside school gates, went up to friends of mine at their place of work, got my younger sister to her dirty work for her, bad mouthed me to anyone that would listen (I've heard some incredibly stories about things I'm supposed to have done) and completely alienated me from the entire family and lots of family friends and so on. It was so, so hard and I can't tell you how many times I've cried, sobbed, wailed, wanted to punch things and just gone round and round in my head because of the whole thing. But eventually she just gave up, I think because she basically ran out of things to do because she just didn't get a reaction. I've focused on my own life and just tried as hard as I can to ignore her, and slowly my life grew and got stronger and it's like they all got weaker and weaker. There's something almost vampirific about the relationship, as if they get their life blood from sapping yours? You're doing the right thing, just keep practising those boundaries, it honestly does get easier over time xx
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Kayzee:
It almost makes me want to put a calendar up at your house.....
in your garage, in a cabinet, so you don't see it unless you choose the time and seek it out.
On this calendar you will keep track of the boundaries your family crosses, after you've stated the consequence for said boundary crossings will push back the date they may come to your home and meet the new baby.
I know that sounds strange, and awful, and terrible, but they'd have a chance at seeing the baby while your IL's are there THIS YEAR.
Or not. :shock:
I know they aren't children, and it's an odd thing to come to mind, but their behavior makes me want to go through my consistent discipline toolbox so badly. :shock:
Lighter
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Thanks Lighter! I know just what you mean. FOO is full of overgrown babies! My own kids (who are toddlers) have more emotional maturity, not to mention more sense of social appropriateness, more compassion, more honesty/integrity/authenticity! It's funny...I made a list that was very similar to your calendar idea the other week. I felt like I needed to write it all down so I could pull it out in moments when FOO was successfully making me feel confused and crazy and remind myself that their abuses and boundary-crossings are a very consistent pattern of behavior! Thank you so deeply for taking this insanity through with me.
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So our new baby is here! Of course, births never seem to happen the way you think they're going to, but this was particularly out of left field....
I dropped DH off at the train station on Tuesday morning; he had to travel a couple of hours away to the big city for his real estate certif. exam. Then, I dropped my daughter off at her nursery school. Felt one or two light contractions during all that, but nothing more than I've been feeling for the past couple of weeks. Went home, read my son some books. Put him down for a nap and told my in-laws I was going to take a shower (had an appointment at the midwife scheduled for later in the day).
So it's, like, 10 a.m. at that point and by 10:30-10:45, I was having pretty intense, regular contractions and starting to panic. Part of me--Irealize now, it was the part that still believes NM and nasty FOO--worried that I was "overreacting," "being hysterical," "making a mountain out of a molehill." But another part of me realized I was, for all intents and purposes, alone and had to listen to my own body/voice (mildly terrifying). So, in a span of five minutes, I managed to call the midwife and say (albeit a bit too stoically, without enough urgency) that I thought I was in labor and needed to come in early. Also called my daughter's school and said I'd be picking her up early. Then asked Dad-in-law to help me put the hospital stuff in the car and drive me.
Anyway... We pick up DD from nursery school at 11, bring her back home, make it to the hospital at five minutes to noon, and DD #2 was born at 12:15 p.m. A photo finish. In under the wire. And I feel things might have gone very differently if I'd hesitated a few minutes more at any given point in the process.
Poor DH missed the whole thing! And couldn't make it back from the city until 8 at night. DD wasborn just as his exam was beginning and I didn't want to call and ruin his concentration! Had to wait a few hours til I was sure he was finished, and of course he was thrilled/floored. Not what we'd had planned!
Glad labor was so quick because I had to go through it on my own! Another thought that terrified me. Dad in-law was so sweet and out of his element. He hadn't done this labor thing in thirty years, though I could tell he secretly loved playing such a big role and saving the day! But quite understandably, he did not want to be in the room while I moaned and pushed. The midwife was such a lovely, calm, compassionate presence though, let me hug her through a few contractions and then, DD was crying in my arms.
DD is so loving, and has such quiet strength. She's such a nice spirit and seems like such an old soul. And I can't help but think she's gonna challenge me. Already, she's made me change so much, made me have to be so much stronger and more certain in my choices. Her big sis and brother are in love with her, and immediately welcomed her into their gang. DD wants to tuck her in and marvel at how cute she is. DS points at her and giggles, brings her toys.
FOO drama still there, but has taken a far seat in my mind. Really, I've kicked NM and her sidekicks out at the curb. With three kids under four, I have a long drive ahead of me, so to speak, and too many other little passengers/travel companions. Fend for yourselves FOO! Figure out your own journey/bad trips on your own!
There were a few hours when I was alone in the hospital with newborn DD, after D-in-law had gone home, when the tiniest inner voice said, "Should I call my family?" But a much stronger one answered back, "No. Not now. I'd much rather share the news with people who can celebrate with me." I called my aunt and uncle instead. I rested, cuddled DD and enjoyed feeling happy on my own.
I emailed FOO a photo last night, and invited them to come this weekend or next (while the in-laws are here and just so I could get their visit out of the way and enjoy Xmas without feeling anxious and stressed about it all). And, most predictably, NM wrote back the most superficial/brief "congratulations" followed by an accusation/attempt to pick a fight. Oh, and after everything she's put me through, did not respond to the invitation at all:
Congratulations! She's beautiful and looks just like you! Plus she came early enough to get situated before Christmas - you'll all be a well- oiled machine by then.
I am a little disappointed, however, that you chose to inform us by email. I understand that you were delivering a baby, but DH or his parents could have phoned. I only checked my email by chance tonight after a long day at work.
Mom
I'm not surprised. I'm not upset. I feel nothing and don't want to waste even a second of thought on FOO's mental illness and obvious attempts to bring us down (even typing this is wasting minutes that are better spent bonding, resting, celebrating). This seems like a very appropriate ending to our relationship.
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So our new baby is here!
Congratulations! and I want all the numbers!
How big?
How long?
Does she have a fuzzy little head like my girls, or was she born with hair, and is it straight standing right up, or curly little locks..... what color?
I guess your NM did exactly what you'd expect, so no surprised there, so no need to get upset......
that is.....
unless you were expecting her to do better?
At some point, and if she's to remain in your life, you grow a sense of humor about it, joke to her face in ways that whoosh right over her head, and know this is it.....
no expectations, no dissapointments going forward.
Ahhhhh..... I smell fresh cut Christmas Tree, and it makes me glad your dd arrived in time to be a part of your celebrations.
I can't tell you how much fun it was to read about your FIL being at the hospital, a strong and steady...... a comforting presense for you.
There's a small mean spot that might enjoy your mother's face when she hear's the retelling of that story, even though it makes me feel a wee bit small: /
::sigh::
Eh, back to that new baby smell, and snuggling in with a newborn....
welcome dd: )
Lighter
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Oh Kay, I am so happy for you and your family and a big, big welcome to your beautiful little girl. May you have a happy and prosperous time this Christmas and enjoy every second that you can together. Well done xx
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Congratulations, Kay!! How wonderful!! What a great story!! I am so happy for you that labor went quickly and smoothly, that you had someone with you who was sane and comforting, and that you are snuggling a sweet wee one. Enjoy every minute.
I nearly choked when I read your NM's email to you. I, too, received a similar message about how I chose to inform my own NM after giving birth. Of course, my method (a voicemail message) did not satisfy her and she, too, was "disappointed that I did not inform her properly." whatever that might have been, don't know, don't care, love my kids . . .
I hope you enjoy this wonderful season with your new little one and that those who love you stay close and comforting!
All the best,
Butterfly
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((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Kay Zee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!
I bet the newest baby is a CUTIE!!!!!!!!!!
As for the N's......on your behalf......I flip them the bird! :P They're dumb turkeys anyway!
Bones
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Hi again Kay,
I woke up thinking about you this morning - or more specifically, thinking about your mum's email. It just rang a bell with me - nothing was ever right. It didn't matter what I did, how I did it, I would always get it wrong in her eyes. Boy, when I think of the knots I used to tie myself in trying to make her happy!
So I thought I would mention my thoughts on this - you have probably already thought the same:
1 Ignore the nastiness - no response to it at all. You informed her of the birth - she sent congratulations - that's good. You issued an invitation - which she ignored. You've done your bit. Ignore it now. If they come to visit - as per your invite - great - anything else - ignore.
2 I also wondered, as your in-laws seem nice, each time you get a bit of crazy from your lot, maybe call or email them, not to complain or moan, just to say hi and get a bit of normal to re-balance you? Moan on here, vent, offload, scream, shout, cry, whatever you need to. You know we get it. And just gradually push the crazies away with a dose of normality each time they infringe. Imagine a great, big, fluggy doughnut around you, your DH, your kids and your in-laws and a big sign on the top that says "Keep out".
Congratulations again :) xxx
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KZ, congratulations!
This precious baby is a lucky one, since YOU are her Mom.
I'm so glad it went well, but jeez -- 20 minutes after getting to the hospital? Lord above!
And how lovely about your father in law...you will be closer to him always after this.
What a delight for him. Sorry you didn't have your hubby there but in a way, how
wonderful that he was off doing something for all of you, that will be a good thing.
4 under 4. Holy moly.
MUCH love and joy to all of you, in your own little Nativity scene...
Rest as much as you can, enjoy the babe...
lots of love,
Hops
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KayZee,
What a joy to get the announcement about the baby and the account of the hour just before her birth. Congratulations to you, DH and baby girl.
Blessings and peace for you and yours,
tt
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Thanks Lighter! Let’s see, she was...
6 pounds, 14 ounces (my biggest baby yet)
Can’t remember how long! I need to go back and look it up in her records. I was so relieved after the speed of it all and still so shocked that I was alone but or F-in-law that I dazed through so many crucial stats! I remember the midwife asking if I wanted to cut the umbilical chord, but I was just so exhausted, I asked her to do it instead.
At the moment, she has slate-colored eyes the softest downy hair (quite a bit) and it looks pretty dark. Which is a stark contrast to DD and DS who are very blonde and blue-eyed like my DH’s side of the family. People tend to think I’m the brunette nanny.
I can honestly, 100 percent say NM acted exactly as I expected her to. No matter what I did, how I told her, etc. it would have been the “wrong” way and NM would have attacked and punished me for it. So no big deal there.
I’m so glad FIL was there too! Looking back, if it had been MIL, I think I might have brought too much expectation to the table (or the delivery room, as it were). I might have been tempted to look at her TOO much like a surrogate mother and hoped she’d make up for all this NM-grief. But FIL was just so sweet and clueless! He wandered in to the room while I was pushing, then quickly (thankfully) ran out, saying, “I don’t need to see this.” All in all, a pretty funny birth story.
Tupp, thank you! So nice to have you and the rest of the board to gush to. I find it so hard, in real life, to celebrate and let the joy out. I always expect to be punished or taken down a notch. Residual NM garbage. Need to find some way to break the association and reset.
I’m so thankful for that advice about touching base with the in-laws when FOO acts up and everything seems miserable. They know the score. NM was so horrible to DH when we first got married. They see the really weird way my family behaves and I’ve talked about it a bit with MIL and her niece over the past year. MIL has an alcoholic N-sister that she and my cousin-in-law had to go NC with. They can both relate, which is an incredible relief. As I get closer and closer to the in-laws, the harder it is to hide my FOO’s dysfunction. They’ve been really supportive, and I’m beginning to feel more comfortable leaning on them during the N-insanity. I used to worry that they’d think I was crazy and toxic because FOO is, but that anxiety is letting up.
Butterfly, I’m so sorry your NM did the same. I feel a lot like you did. Not gonna let it get to me. NM would be “offended” no matter what I did, what choices I made. She’s tried to stir up drama at every birth (and on any big day); she never misses an opportunity to try to make it about her. As a new mom you deserved better. I’d like to think I do too. But I’m really inspired by your strength. I’m glad to know you got through it. Hopefully, I can too.
Thank you, Bones! Dumb turkeys they are! And actually, I think turkeys are just as vicious as FOO! (Watched some great documentary long ago called My Life as a Turkey.) I think DD is very cute. But I’m totally biased!
Thank you so much TT and Hops for all your support and advice in these past couple of months. Hops, you’re my assertiveness guru, and I promise I’ll return the karma someday. Just logging onto the board makes me feel so much stronger and saner.
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So having just typed that last reply, I wish I could end on that good note. But I feel I've made a mess of it again, and have let myself down. I let my boundaries get trampled. I set myself up for attack. When attacked, I got emotional to the wrong person. I got sucked into the FOO family drama (again). I screwed up, basically. I screwed up bad.
So after NM ignored the invitation to see the baby (fine, and a relief really), my Dad said he was going to drive up today for a couple of hours to see the new baby and drop off those legendary "too-big" x-mas presents.
*As a side note: the presents are really, aggressively mammoth. Like, ten huge bags worth of stuff. Some marked from "Santa" in those giant trash-bag sized sacks. Shoved it in the storage room (it makes me sick to look at). There are even some addressed to me, which I might Goodwill without opening.
Anyway...I thought it was good news that Dad was coming alone. I thought, fine, he'd get to see the new baby and there's no way he'd start anything on his own (without NM there) and with my in-laws there (FOO cares so much about keeping up appearances). Well, I was totally wrong. Dad pretty much ignored me, but then, in the rare instances when we were alone together, he would come at me with things it seemed like NM had asked him to say. Alone in the living room, he said, "Your mother and I would like to Skype with the children every week." Then, right at the end of the visit, he cornered me in the kitchen when I was alone, put a rather aggressive arm around my shoulder and says, "What's with the blocked phone calls?"
I was not prepared. I should have prepared! I should have written down and practiced something I could have said if he did something like this--something I could have recited and then made a quick escape back to DH and the in-laws. I did the absolutely WORST thing! I confided EVERY feeling and motivation. I said, I just needed a month or two break because I couldn't take the bullying from NM. He said, why block my number then? And I said, because you act just like her and gang up on me too, and I don't expect more from NM but it just devastates me when it comes from you. I called NM mentally ill and N (Dad insisted "she isn't"). I cried and said I wouldn't accept headgames, scapegoating, abuse. I said believe me, I wouldn't choose not to have a mother or a family if I didn't feel it was the only course of action. Dad recited all this stuff about how "he holds NM in his arms while she cried about how she wants to repair our relationship"). I said, it's not reparable; NM and I HAVE NEVER had a normal, loving, mother-daughter relationship. I said I needed a break. I did not have the energy for all the drama, and yet there I was engaging in the drama! I screamed how dare Dad come at me like that when I KNEW for a fact that he'd been in the same position I'm in, he'd been abused by her too.
Dad stood there dead-eyed the whole time. And it wasn't until he left that I realized he hadn't said one thing that was empathetic during the conversation (I'd always thought he was capable of empathy, but I'm wrong). He wasn't affected by anything I was saying. He showed no concern or emotion at all. It was like he had a checklist of things NM had instructed him to say and he just went down the list, ticking them off. Anytime I talked about how I felt, he disregarded it and told me how NM feels.
If any of my children ever came to me saying the things I told him, I would hold them in my arms and tell them I was so sorry they were hurting. But Dad just did this robot-thing. He had a hardness in his eyes. Then DH wandered in, and Dad pretended as though nothing was wrong. He just started asking DH about some kitchen gadget we have (a baby food ice cube tray, through out the whole conversation I was trying to make DS dinner). DH said it was the weirdest thing he'd ever experienced. The way Dad just switched off the conversation/confrontation and pretended everything was fine, while I was sobbing over DS' spaghetti.
Dad then went to the car, and DH followed him and had a talk. DH told my Dad that he didn't want NM or Dad to contact us for at least six months. It was the first time DH has ever gotten involved. And I feel so guilty, sorry and embarrassed about it. Some tiny sane voice in my head knows I shouldn't. It says, "After months of this shit, Dad came into my home five days after I gave birth and had a go at me." But I can't help feeling responsible for my Dad's behavior. I should have maintained NC, even with the baby's birth and all. There just felt like no winning. Like, no matter how many holes I plugged, FOO was going to find some way to burrow in after birth regardless.
I'm really worried too about what's going to happen next. I can't imagine FOO accepting six months. Even while Dad was here, he was pushing really hard to know where DD's new school is. DH said he's going to take in a picture of NM and Dad and warn DD's teachers not to let her go off with them should they turn up. I've been meaning to do it for months, but I'm just so embarrassed. Still, I think it's necessary, what with the way Dad was talking. And DH and I both remember the way NM threatened to snatch my niece from daycare.
Aaagh. I am in a tailspin. But I suppose today was another wake-up. Can't rely on/confide in Dad. Dad and NM are the same. Need to start grieving relationship I've never had/will never have with him too.
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This is brilliant:
DH said he's going to take in a picture of NM and Dad and warn DD's teachers not to let her go off with them should they turn up. I've been meaning to do it for months, but I'm just so embarrassed. Still, I think it's necessary, what with the way Dad was talking. And DH and I both remember the way NM threatened to snatch my niece from daycare.
This is so wise. It may never be necessary but it is absolutely the RIGHT thing to do!
And I am so sorry you have the grief over your scrap of a dream about a scrap of empathy from your Dad. I am so sorry.
But I want to say this too: You DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG WHATSOEVER WHEN YOUR DAD WAS THERE.
You behaved like a human being with human wants and needs, and you ARE STILL going to be able to set, draw, and HOLD the boundaries you need to hold. That event in the kitchen doesn't contradict this capability of yours one bit.
You were real, and present, and it didn't produce an outcome you might have wished for. But all you did was behave with integrity and honesty. You acted like a natural human being and there is no punishment if you skip the SELF-punishment. They really don't have any more power over you.
If the long-term result has to be tougher boundaries with your family, both your parents and your sister, well that's the outcome.
But don't add it to a list of things to be mad at yourself for. You did nothing wrong at all.
Enjoy that sublime baby, let each of your children fill your heart with love and knowledge that you have a famlly, and your DH sounds like a wonderful person. It is terrific that he asserted himself with your father and stood up for YOU, repeating YOUR boundary to him. BRAVO.
love and EMPATHY,
Hops
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Kay, it's early and I'm skimming mail so will write more later, but honestly - you did the right thing. You were real, you poured your heart out, you were honest, you have feelings. You did what any sane, rational, healthy human being would do. You love your family, despite everything, you've tried over and over again to make things better and your reward is this ambush just after you've had a baby. Hooray for DH! I'm so glad he stood up for you on this and had a word. Will write more later but you've handled this like any loving mother would. xx
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Kay:
I think you needed to tell your father how you really feel.
Just for your own process...... to lay it out there, and know he
had
the
chance
to be appropriate, but couldn't.
Now you know.... he can't.
He never will.
He's broken, like your mother is broken, and they'll never be able to do better.
That's a very hard thing to come to grips with, but IMO you had to have that conversation standing there, crying over spagetti to understand that.
Don't feel bad you let your dad in...... your IL's and husband were there. NM wasn't. How bad could it have been, right?
Well, now you know.
That knowing leads to putting proper boundaries in place, and your husband was on top of it, putting them in place, and bless his soul I think he did a smashing job of getting things started. Not only stating a boundary he understands will be challenged, but thinking about plugging holes proactively. He's on board, and it's good to have him on your side Don't feel guilty. Embrace it, feel fortified, and stay focused on what's important...... you, your family and that new baby.
Don't feel guilty......... he's your partner, and he loves you..... wants to protect you, and sometimes there are things we need protection from.
This is one of those things, Kay.
It's going to be OK.
ps Now is the time to stick to that thoughtful NC for 6 month rule. Embrace your husband's stand on this, and enforce it together for your family's sake, not just yours.
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Kay:
I think you needed to tell your father how you really feel.
Just for your own process...... to lay it out there, and know he
had
the
chance
to be appropriate, but couldn't.
Now you know.... he can't.
He never will.
He's broken, like your mother is broken, and they'll never be able to do better.
That's a very hard thing to come to grips with, but IMO you had to have that conversation standing there, crying over spagetti to understand that.
Don't feel bad you let your dad in...... your IL's and husband were there. NM wasn't. How bad could it have been, right?
Well, now you know.
That knowing leads to putting proper boundaries in place, and your husband was on top of it, putting them in place, and bless his soul I think he did a smashing job of getting things started. Not only stating a boundary he understands will be challenged, but thinking about plugging holes proactively. He's on board, and it's good to have him on your side Don't feel guilty. Embrace it, feel fortified, and stay focused on what's important...... you, your family and that new baby.
Don't feel guilty......... he's your partner, and he loves you..... wants to protect you, and sometimes there are things we need protection from.
This is one of those things, Kay.
It's going to be OK.
ps Now is the time to stick to that thoughtful NC for 6 month rule. Embrace your husband's stand on this, and enforce it together for your family's sake, not just yours.
I concur!
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Kay Zee))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
You did the RIGHT thing! You set a boundary.....FIVE DAYS AFTER GIVING BIRTH AND PHYSICALLY RECOVERING.....AND YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO SET A BOUNDARY! And I am DELIGHTED that DH is assisting you with ENFORCING that boundary!
I get the sense that DH heard the crap that N-father was shoving in your face, KNOWING YOU WERE RECOVERING FROM GIVING BIRTH, and caught him in a bold-faced LIE immediately afterward. I am SO GLAD that DH stepped up and DEFENDED you and the kids! Now it's time for the NC to be FIRMLY in place. If the N's continue to attempt to INVADE your boundaries, then the NC period will be extended for an additional six months per violation. If the N's don't like that.......EFF THEM!
Bones
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"I'm really worried too about what's going to happen next. I can't imagine FOO accepting six months. Even while Dad was here, he was pushing really hard to know where DD's new school is. DH said he's going to take in a picture of NM and Dad and warn DD's teachers not to let her go off with them should they turn up. I've been meaning to do it for months, but I'm just so embarrassed. Still, I think it's necessary, what with the way Dad was talking. And DH and I both remember the way NM threatened to snatch my niece from daycare."
Kay, don't be embarrassed. When my son started at his new after school club, I made an appointment, took a deep breath and explained the situation to the lady that runs the club. I told her about the false accusations my mum had made over the years, the child protection enquiries she'd initiated, the sexual abuse I'd endured at the hands of her husband and of my worries that she would do this again when she found out where I was living (and I knew from friends and neighbours that they were making extensive enquiries about his whereabouts). She was really understanding and supportive and to this day they've been absolute rocks and have helped us no end (and eventually she confided in me that her family are quite similar).
It's not as uncommon as you think, there are all sorts of disputes involving children and you can bet that your kids won't be the only ones who've had parents go in asking the school to make sure x, y and z don't get too close. Generally schools are quite hot on confidentiality and things like who can take the children out of school, but reiterating it will put your mind at rest and make the school staff extra vigilant. You can even have a password that only you and your DH know, that way if you need someone to pick the kids up in an emergency you can tell them the password so the school know they're okay to take them. Do whatever you need to to make you feel safe. Your safety and the safety of your kids is paramount, whether it's physical, mental or emotional. You have a right to feel safe and secure - you've just been made to feel that you don't. Hope you and your lovely babies (and DH of course!) are all doing okay xx
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Hops, Tup, Lighter & Bones,
Thank you so much for the “get out of jail free” (or more accurately, the “get out of self-loathing free”) card. Can’t tell you how much I needed the reminder that feelings are normal and human.
Ns and their schoolyard bullying ways... The way they push and push and taunt and provoke in secret and then stand back with smug satisfaction while you publicly go to pieces... It just kills me. Anytime I really emote and cry in front of FOO, I feel like they’ve won and I’ve lost. But yes, you’re right. I know, deep down, that you’re right: it was natural, normal, human and even valuable to get upset. Because I know now that Dad is not capable of compassion. Dad is not going to tolerate it when I give my side, talk about my feelings; he’ll just tune me out and yammer over me about NM. He must feel very unsafe when NM is feeling diminished.
I’m really glad that DH stood up to Dad too. I didn’t expect it at all. We hadn’t discussed it beforehand. But he says he was/is happy to do it. And he’s even said he’s happy to take charge for the moment and thwart sis’ visit if I want to. It’s really nice to have him there to help me be firm (it’s so easy to backslide on my boundaries). And he’s said the same thing--that I shouldn’t feel guilty about involving him in the conflict/family dysfunction. When I told him, “I hate dragging you into this sh*t.” He said, “You’re my sh*t. You’re my business.” Which felt better than anything. It’s nice to have DH (and you all) there reminding me I’m not family-less because DH and I have an incredible family together and I need to focus my attention there now.
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It's not as uncommon as you think, there are all sorts of disputes involving children and you can bet that your kids won't be the only ones who've had parents go in asking the school to make sure x, y and z don't get too close. Generally schools are quite hot on confidentiality and things like who can take the children out of school, but reiterating it will put your mind at rest and make the school staff extra vigilant.
Thank you (((Tup)))!
I swear, the things I want to do/say to your NM. Subjecting you to all those tough years and tough talks. I wonder if it hurt her on some level--to see you being such a wonderful, warm competent mother, knowing (maybe on some subconscious level) that she was incapable of ever being that kind of mother herself. Anyway, I am awed by your strength. And it's a huge comfort to know you've been there, and you go through it.
I finally got up the nerve last night and wrote to DD's teacher, including pictures of NM and my Dad. I got a response back this morning, and she was really kind and reassuring. She said, exactly what you said! Essentially, "Don't be embarrassed at all. We've heard this kind of thing lots of time over the years, and we've seen all kinds of family disputes. We're really happy when people give us this kind of heads-up, so we can be extra careful." My embarrassment is slowly fading, and I'm glad for the added piece of mind. It was just the way Dad keeps pushing to know where DD goes to school and what days of the week, combined with the way NM used to threaten to snatch my niece from daycare...
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It's an understandable concern, Kay, and a really nasty way to push your buttons and worry you - what could worry someone more than what happens to their kids.
Thanks for your kind words re my mum and our situation. I sort of gave up trying to figure out what pushed her buttons as I worried it would make me as crazy as she is! I'm just glad I got help at the right time and got out. Good counsellors are worth their weight in gold. I feel sorry for her now. I see a sad, lonely, little girl inside an old woman's body. She could be enjoying a lovely retirement (she's seventy next year) but she's so consumed with anger and bitterness that she's pushed away everyone that might have cared for her and kept herself for a raggety old man who's never been faithful to her and my younger sister who, bless her, hasn't got the brains god gave a gopher (she's very like your sister in that she acts like mum's henchman). I think it's a family dynamic that plays out time and time again. It gets easier over time. The sane stuff becomes normal, the insane feels like it's something to be avoided and eventually you look back and shake your head in disbelief that you ever did or put up with those things. I don't question myself constantly like I used to - it still comes on sometimes, but on the whole I listen to how I feel now and take notice, even if I don't understand it. Our bodies are good at saying "Hey! This is a bad thing! Keep away from it".
I'm glad the school are understanding and glad your DH is standing his ground as well. He sounds fab. Hope there's lots of loveliness going on with the babies as well :)