Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on July 10, 2014, 03:02:20 PM
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I am having problems with my daughter in law. Does anybody here have a daughter in law that is control freak and obsessive about what others do? She is emasculating and castrating my son. Can somebody help me?
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I don't think there's an awful lot you can do if the situation involves adults. As hard as it is, involving yourself might push your son away. People tend to need to see the problem for themselves before they can do anything about it. Not an easy situation to be in, it's very hard to watch someone you love be in a situation that isn't good for them.
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From my perspective, if your son has not asked for help, then you need to leave the situation alone. If he has asked for help, then the best advice to give him is for him to talk to a professional marriage counselor, alone, if necessary to figure things out. It is NOT Mommy's place or responsibility to fix his marriage. If he's old enough to get married, then he is an adult who needs to figure out how to deal with life's problems. A piece of advice I had to give someone, after she tried to recruit me to interfere with her child's marriage, was this:
"Your nose ends where their marriage begins."
If you attempt to force your child to choose between you or their spouse, you're going to lose. It's hard to keeps hands off but you have to do it and let your adult children resolve their own dilemmas. If you attempt to "fix" your son's problem for him, you could easily find yourself being cut off by him.
Just my two cents.
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Maybe, just maybe it might be of value to voice your concerns in the form of sympathy to your son. To say something to him about noticing that when your DIL does so and so it seems emasculating. Or say that it is painful for you to see your DIL do this thing or that thing. Avoid saying negative things about your DIL and only talk about her actions.
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Lupita:
I always find that saying something nice or positive about the control freak/personality disturbed person can make the emasculated/bothered person feel safe enough with you to voice their concerns or complain.
At that point you're more likely to be able to discuss solutions, if that discussion is going to take place at all, IME.
Hugs to you, Lupita.
Lighter
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I vote No Comment, Lupita.
Your son is an adult and you cannot control his relationships. Your job is to be supportive and kind to them both and never criticize his mate. IF he brings it up with you and he asks for your thoughts, give them gently. But only if you are directly asked. (Don't spend time hovering and ready to pounce at an opportunity to tell him what you think of her.)
If he does not, understand that accepting his separateness from you as an adult is a critical transition for you that will affect the rest of your life. Including whether you are a welcome grandmother.
The cliche of "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?" might apply.
You can't weed her out of your little family herd and I think if you try to, it will be disastrous.
Good luck...
Hops
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Twoapenny,
Thank you so much for your answer. My post was there for several days all alone and nobody cared. You were the first one to have compassion and show some care about a lonely person. Thank you. And, you are right, it is not easy to watch. She snaps her fingers at him. She yells at him and claps when she is in a hurry. Not even a waitress deserves to be treated that way. My son is overly compliant. She tells him "you irritate me so much" and all of that in front of me. She is an N I think with no empathy. She thinks she is the non plus ultra. When my son leaves home he carries many things for work, cables, instruments, etc for the entertainment industry. Nobody helps him. When she leaves the house she gets overly mad if he does not help even though she only needs the pumps for the breast mils. When she cooks, she only cooks for her self and does not let anybody touch her food. My son works hard and he cannot eat the food she cooks.
I like the fact that she is strong and hard worker and a good mother to my baby grand son. I even love the fact that nobody f**k with her. I want her to kick ass but not the one of my son. At sometimes I think she does not like my son and she hates him. And sometimes I think she hates him because I love him becasue her mother is not as helpful with her as I am with my son and her. I babysit for them all my free time for free plus my full time job and not only ofr them to work but for them to go out and hgave drinks and have fun. But I am getting to the point that I am very frustrated.
Thank you Twopenny.
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BonesMS,
Thank you so much for replying to my post. I was very sad to see that for several days my old friends were they posting about other things and completely ignoring my post. You are right. My son gets mad at me very much for telling him how much I dislike the way he is treated. He says it is OK. I do not think so. But you are right that he gets mad. That make sme sad, depressed, frustrated and concerned.
Thank you again.
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Gaining S,
Thank you so much for writing. It is true. I tell him how much it hurts to see it. I say how wonderful she is hard worker, focused, excellent mother, determined, and maybe my son is a little procrsatinating, and that is why sometimes I get irritated with him too.
I told him it makes me sick of my stomach each time she gets in a rampage of ugliness. He told me, go vomit to your house and come back when you feel better. of course, he will call me if he needs baby sitting. I baby sit at least four times a week. Had to forget about my dance lessons, and my social life because their work is unpredictable and I always have to cancel. But I love so much that baby that I will do everything I can to be with the baby.
I am being used and abused, at my own will. LOL. I love that baby so much so mcuh so much!!!!!!!! For me being with the baby is a meditation. He does not critizice, does not need to be impressed, he only cries for milk. I totally feel present with him and forget about my own problems.
The baby is magic to my life.
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Light!!!!!!!!!
I miss you so much!!!!!!!!!!
How are you? How are your children?
I think that my DIL has a hole in her heart and she doe snot how to feel it. First she wanted a dog, then a second dog, they a house, then a baby, now she wants another baby, a bigger kitchen, and so much disfunction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Her mother is a total sick twisted individual. You have no idea what they have put me through.
The good thing is that I am imrpoving at my work and my personality so much!!!!!!
Her family is Jerry Springer material. Not that I am a perfect relative, I have my issues, but I do not mistreat people. She does.
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Hop,
Thank you ofr writing. It is very difficult not to say anything. I wish I let h8im learned his own lessons, but I cannot. I still have some impulse control to work on.
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Oh, honey. I do understand. I'm sorry I'm so blunt.
She sounds AWFUL. I would tear my hair out watching that...except that she controls access to the grandbaby.
So I'll be blunt again (since that's how I show you I care):
I told him it makes me sick of my stomach each time she gets in a rampage of ugliness. He told me, go vomit to your house and come back when you feel better.
This is where your answer is. You feel what you feel (and boy would I feel the same!) BUT because of the impulse control AND boundary-with-adult-child problems (you know I know this because I FAILED at it, and my D no longer speaks to me)... you say it to him anyway.
And he, clearly, very clearly, has told you exactly what he wants you to do.
He wants you to NOT comment. So that's why I vote No Comment (from you, about her--evermore).
At the same time, another thing occurs to me... if you are distressed and upset and destabilized by being around her behavior, well there's an opportunity to set healthy boundaries for YOURSELF. You have no obligation to sit there passively and quiescent while you observe abusive behavior.
But rather than taking it up with your SON (which distresses him, obviously) -- you can just speak about YOURSELF. Your OWN well being. For example (and take this with a grain of salt because I've had a beer):
I love you all so much. But I'm going to have to take a break (go outside, not be available this week), because when you ARGUE/BICKER/CRITICIZE EACH OTHER I find I feel so upset that I can't enjoy being with my grandbaby. Please call me next week...I would love to babysit. But I just need a break from this tension. I can help and support you two but not when it's affecting my happiness. Please let me know when thing are calm and you can talk to each other respectfully.
Repetez ad nauseum.
See? That's talking about YOUR feelings and wellbeing. I think if you say how it affects YOU, not your son whom you cannot speak for, it could become an adult non-victim-triangle kind of dialogue.
[Edit: Edited out a guilt-trippy little scolding that I didn't like when I read it this morning! Sheesh, ewww.]
Love you and I've MISSED you. Spent a lot of time thinking about your life and so so so wanting you to find happiness.
love to you
Hops
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I didn't respond right away because I needed time to think of how to word what needed to be said. I've seen this kind of situation before and when the in-laws attempt to intervene ... or, more accurately ... interfere, it NEVER ends well. He is an adult and, in Judge Judy's words, he picked her. The best thing you can do is stay out of their marriage if you want to continue to have access to the grandchild.
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They bought tickets to travel to visit my son's father side of the family, (ex-husband). My son had it well hidden from me since he knows that I hate that man for the abuse he did to my son. So, he asked me to stay at his house alone ofr five days to watch the dogs. I dislike to be in thier house alone. I only like being with the baby. Just to watch the dogs and ofr five days is too much. So, I said no and finally caved in. But I placed a boundary. I said that the only way I would stay so they can travel would be if they make an appointment with the counselor so we can go the three of us and I can say what I need to say without being kicked out of the house.
He wants so much to make that trip that he accepted.
I hope something good comes out of this. Because I am sacrificing by stayin in that house for five days. It is going to be an eternity.
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Crikey, Lupita.
You better get that therapy appointment before they stick you with the dogs.
I doubt they'll hold up their end of the bargain, once you hold up yours.
((((Lupita))))) So nice to hear you're doing well at work, and feeling better about how you relate to others!
I've missed you too.
Lighter
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Lupita, I'm so glad you have that precious baby to love.
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Oh, honey. I do understand. I'm sorry I'm so blunt.
And he, clearly, very clearly, has told you exactly what he wants you to do.
He wants you to NOT comment. So that's why I vote No Comment (from you, about her--evermore).
At the same time, another thing occurs to me... if you are distressed and upset and destabilized by being around her behavior, well there's an opportunity to set healthy boundaries for YOURSELF. You have no obligation to sit there passively and quiescent while you observe abusive behavior.
But rather than taking it up with your SON (which distresses him, obviously) -- you can just speak about YOURSELF. Your OWN well being. For example (and take this with a grain of salt because I've had a beer):
I love you all so much. But I'm going to have to take a break (go outside, not be available this week), because when you ARGUE/BICKER/CRITICIZE EACH OTHER I find I feel so upset that I can't enjoy being with my grandbaby. Please call me next week...I would love to babysit. But I just need a break from this tension. I can help and support you two but not when it's affecting my happiness. Please let me know when thing are calm and you can talk to each other respectfully.
This is what I can use, and thank you Hop ofr the time you took to write.
I have no obligation to witness this abuse.
In fact, I did it on my own. I baby sat on Thursday and she was bitching me and make me give him a bath when I did not want to. So the following day I arrived just in time for her to leave. That way she cannot give me orders. And she did not. She just left.
Thank you for your positive vibration GS.
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Hey Lupita:
You chose well.
Showing up right before the DIL leaves is better than showing up early, so she can boss you around, and create trouble.
Remember to stay focused on your joy, and to do your best to have the relationship YOU want with DIL, son, and that beautiful grandson of yours. I hate it when negative people rub off on me, and train ME. Sometimes you have to shake your head, and change the way you're thinking to get out of that negativity. It helps if I ask myself....
"I wonder what happened to that person to make them behave that way." Then I thank God I'm having a better day, and keep moving, bc our altitude is determined a good deal from our attitude.
Your grandson is learning from everyone in his life, and this is your opportunity to help him learn how to deal with stress, and problem solving. He's watching all the adults, and learning from them all the time. What will you model for him?
Give that little crumb cruncher a hug for me....
I do love babies; )
Light
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(What Lighter said. Wow.)
And you're very welcome, ((((Lupita)))).
love
Hops
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I am so mad and so disappointed!!!!!!
He told me today that he was not able to make it. She found an excuse for every date the counselor offered. He said that we will have a meeting after the trip. I said:
"Dont count on me" I wont do it. That was my condition.
I think she knows she is in the wrong.
Now what? If they find somebody else or they just dont go they are going to blame me.
I feel just in front of my mother. When I finally feel free from my mother's power I start giving my power to someone else.
I have to be able to be happy even if there is a problem.
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I am so mad and so disappointed!!!!!!
He told me today that he was not able to make it. She found an excuse for every date the counselor offered. He said that we will have a meeting after the trip. I said:
"Dont count on me" I wont do it. That was my condition.
I think she knows she is in the wrong.
Now what? If they find somebody else or they just dont go they are going to blame me.
I feel just in front of my mother. When I finally feel free from my mother's power I start giving my power to someone else.
I have to be able to be happy even if there is a problem.
Sometimes the best thing to do, for yourself, is what I learned in Al-Anon ... detach with love. You can't force people to get the help until they WANT the help. He has the option of going on his own ... if HE WANTS IT. If he thinks/feels that he doesn't want it, then no one can force him. He has to decide when he's sick and tired of the entire mess.
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Thank you Bones for your words.
I am very upset. All the attempts done to have the appointment have been destroyed by her. For every appointment she finds a pretext. I am so sorry for my son. So, it seems thay might get somebody else to take care of the dogs. This is not the first time I cannot help my son. I am powerless. I am so disappointed. I have tried so hard to gte this woman to like me. I even babysit ofr her to go out with her friends, just to make her happy. But nothing seems to work.
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Thank you Bones for your words.
I am very upset. All the attempts done to have the appointment have been destroyed by her. For every appointment she finds a pretext. I am so sorry for my son. So, it seems thay might get somebody else to take care of the dogs. This is not the first time I cannot help my son. I am powerless. I am so disappointed. I have tried so hard to gte this woman to like me. I even babysit ofr her to go out with her friends, just to make her happy. But nothing seems to work.
Sometimes, no matter what you do, nothing works. I have a similar situation with some relatives who love to put the "fun" in DYSFUNCTIONAL. I've come to realize that no matter what I do, or don't do, no matter what I say, or don't say, this bunch of relatives are always to consider me as the dirt under their feet ... so I decided I was not going to waste my time and energy on them anymore. I've found better and more fun things to do without them and let the situation go. Turning myself into a pretzel just wasn't worth the aggravation.
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Well, it seems that I am powerless. They decided to pay somebody else to take care of the dogs. They do not need me. So they do not have to get a counselor and there is nothing I can do. In the name of God.
She got mad at me on Thursday night and wanted to talk to me. I said that I could not talk to her unless there was porfessional help. She continued and raised her voice. I said, you see, you cannot control your impulses. And that is why we cannot talk without help. Hope that, that make her eager to accept help.
For now I have to leave it in the name of God. Tonight I will baby sit but will get there late enough that she cannot boss me around.
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Well, it seems that I am powerless. You have power over yourself, Lupita. To think you have power over anyone else isn't useful.They decided to pay somebody else to take care of the dogs. No. You layed out a boundary, and followed through with consequences when they tried to weasel out, and stomp your boundaries into the dirt. I think that's progress. They do not need me. Ummmmm, you'Ｒｅ going to babysit tonight. It's free babysitting. Everyone needs free babysitting.So they do not have to get a counselor and there is nothing I can do. In the name of God. You can stay calm, keep communicating the way you want them to communicate with you, and have a relationship with your grandson. I wouldn't threaten to stop babysitting if they don't see a counselor with you, but it's not like you have zero power as long as they need you for babysitting. That looks sad to read, Lupita. Do you think your son and DIL would cut you out of their lives if you don't let the DIL pick fights, and jerk you around? It's normal to stop sujecting yourself
She got mad at me on Thursday night and wanted to talk to me. I said that I could not talk to her unless there was porfessional help. She continued and raised her voice. I said, you see, you cannot control your impulses. You can tell her that you won't have a discussion with her if she's going to raise her voice, name call, or change the subject before settling an issue. You can say you're going to remove yourself from the situation for X amount of time, and will be willing to reengage after that, but only if she can follow those rules, which are reasonable, and appropriate. You deserve to be treated respectuflully, nad since you're willing to be respectful, it's a boundary DIL will have to respect, or she sees less of you. Maybe it works out that you take the baby to your place, on a regular basis, and you just see very little of the DIL if she can't control herself? And that is why we cannot talk without help. Hope that, that make her eager to accept help.
For now I have to leave it in the name of God. Tonight I will baby sit but will get there late enough that she cannot boss me around. You can't change your DIL. All you can change is yourself, and engage with her with compassion, and no judgement. That's it. Maybe if she loses something she really depends on from you, babysitting when she's going out with the girls if she can't be respectful at all, then she'll stop poking you so hard? On the other hand, maybe she'll find another babysitter, and your son won't want to make waves. What do you think will happen? Do they have enough money to pay pet and baby sitters to replace all you do for them?
Calm, Lupe. Breath. Love on that baby, and know this too shall pass. Lighter
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I have power over myself.
I layed out a boundary, and followed through with consequences.
Everyone needs free babysitting.
I can stay calm, keep communicating the way I want them to communicate with me, and have a relationship with my grandson.
I do not know if my son and DIL would cut me out of their lives if you don't let the DIL pick fights, and jerk me around? It's normal to stop subjecting myself.
I will tell her that I won't have a discussion with her if she's going to raise her voice, name call, or change the subject or leave before settling an issue.
I deserve to be treated respectfully.
I need to work on getting the baby to my place instead.
I can't change my DIL. All I can change is myself, and engage with her with compassion, and no judgment.
Do they have enough money to pay pet and baby sitters to replace all you do for them? I HOPE NOT. I WANT TO BE WITH MY GRAND SON.
So, today 7/29/14, my son had asked me to take care of the baby for him to go to a rehearsal. That was since Saturday. She knew it and she did not say anything. My son called me today just five minutes before I left my house. He told me that she did not want me to go. That she was going to take care of the baby and that she was in a bad mood and he did not want that problems spark there. I had my lunch ready, my plans, everything. She waited until the last minute to do that. I think that she planned it just to show me who is in power. Just to hurt me. My only desire is to be with the baby. To be part of something. Why is she so jealous of me? Why does she have this desire to hurt me? I have not done anything to hurt her. I have been very nice to her and take care of the baby even for her to go out with her friends without my son, just to have fun. Nobody helped me that way. What can I do? Just remain calm and love the baby and be with the baby all the chances I have, when she wants to. My son has very little authority in that
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Hi Lupe:
Update?
All you can do is placate the DIL, and try to have the relationship you want to have.
Kill DIL with kindness, don't show upset to her, and enforce reasonable boundaries.
You can't change anyone but yourself..... how are things working out for you now?
Lighter
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Light!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for asking!
Worse and worse.
Her mother has lived with then since the day they decided to move together. She is a dreadful person. She said that she would go to another state to take care of her mother. She did. I thought it was heaven. But she lied. Instead of staying with her mother in the other state where this old lady has a house and pension, she got her and came back to live again with my son and his wife with her mother too. So, now I go baby sit with having my daughter in law'smother, and grand mother in a wheel chair. She really makes my life very difficult becaue she oides not work and stays in the house all day saying ugly things about me and when I get there to baby sit everybody is mad at me and nobody welcomes me. Very sad.
What DIL and her mother want is that I give up and she takes care of the baby instead of me. I have not given up so far but they constantly break my spirit and disapprove everything I do. My son gets mad at me because he is there with them and hears so many complains about me. He is irritated when I get there. He told me that I get there and everything because chaotic. I am the only one who helps. And I help and go to my house. The pother woman does not help, she is a leech, and a parasite and she is welcome.
Sad.
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Dear Lupita,
I am so sorry that this has happened to you.
What do you think of taking them to Court asking for1 day a week with your grandson at YOUR HOME.
Your reason for asking is the way you are treated when you go there, by her, by your own son, and the rest of the Bridge Club. The only reason I didn't do that is that I have my disabilities and I felt that would go against me. Don't you think that a grandma needs her grandson, and vice versa? and you need quality time without the bridge club watching your every move!
Good Luck
Izzy
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So sorry things just keep getting more and more complicated, Lupita.
Sometimes that's the way it goes.....
there will be days you eat the bear, and on others......
the bear eats you.
Remember.....
nothing good nor bad, lasts forever.
This too shall pass, and you don't want to look back on these times and wish you hadn't squandered so much time and energy on the negative people.
There's this lovely little shining light there for you to focus HERE. Now.
I say give the MIL and negatives others as little as you can, so you have more everything for yourself and that darling gs.
Remember.......
be chipper, and keep your sense of humor in tact. Don't rub their lazy noses in their shortcomings.... it just draws more fire, and I can imagine how I'd feel in your position... I'd be cleaning little corners, and shaming them right and left, not meaning to, but having to control myself or make it worse, bc that's what I do when I'm under pressure.
I clean with great vigor, and there's nothing more satisfying than shaming nasty people with that kind of energy. It's just not helpful though.
Let's face it.....
Those people are miserable.
You don't have to be.
Don't let them transfer their unhappiness and aggression TO YOU, Lupe.
Detach emotionally, and focus on your next adventure.
BEFORE you're triggered, invoke a helpful mantra...
"Nope, you aren't triggering me today, I have a world to conquer with my gs." Whatever works, Lupe.
I love conversations and activities with little children!
You never know what they're going to say: )
Lighter
It's fall. Go outdoors with the little one and kick leaves.... marvel at things under rocks, and play by creeks!
BE AUNTIE MAME, not the victim your DIL wants you to be. YOU get to choose, and aren't you the lucky one?
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Izzi and Light
She asked my son to tell me that she did not want me to baby sit anymore. She also asked my son that I do not go in the house when she is there. But she is there all the time so my chances are very little. My son promise me to bring to baby to me once a month. That is too little. Hed said he might bring him next saturday. I am afvraid that she is going to sabotage it. I do not understand why she wanted to get rid of me when I was helping her so much.
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the pain is unbearable. I want to scream, to cry to die to I dont know.;
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(((((((((((Lupita))))))))))), I'm so very sorry.
I think she's just reacting to your tone and emotionality. And to her own insecurity.
Perhaps feeling that she is not viewed as the most important woman in your son's life.
I've never had a daughter in law but have read advice columns for many years, and this problem
is mentioned over and over again. The advisors always always always say that a parent must step
aside, be nearly submissive, respectful, and never reproachful or critical, in order to ease into
their child's new family and not threaten their child's spouse.
To limit your time with your grand-baby is cruel, and the oldest power game in the book.
I am so sorry.
The only advice I have to to accept your once a month visit with the deepest inner peace and
joy you can create, and hang on to that. If you escalate the drama you may lose all contact.
I wish some family counseling sessions could happen with you and your son and your DIL.
love and comfort
Hops
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I'm sorry to read your last posts, Lupita.
It sounds like your DIL is trying to cut you out of your son, and gs's life, and that your son is stuck in the middle, trying to keep the peace.
He has a child to consider, so I understand him stepping lightly.
He can't afford to start a war with his wife over your time with the baby.
What can he do?
Bring the child to you as often as he can manage it, but how can he minimize the conflict?
I have no idea, but maybe you do? Get busy for the month, and don't contact them. At all. When you speak with your son make sure you aren't pressuring him, and that you seem happy, and busy, and not bothered by lack of contact. The more you want something, the more your DIL might sense it, and mess with you. Maybe you can start getting some weekends or shorter visits during the week if things cool down? They need to cool down, Lupe.
((((Lupita)))))
Remember self care rituals, and hold compassion in your hearf for DIL and her mother to the best of your ability. If they feel you're up for a fight, or have entered into a fight with them, you're never going to get more time with that baby, IME.
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I think it's important to try not to view her as a villain, Lup...nor yourself as a victim.
Just remember there's a scared child inside HER, and she may be fighting her own battle
to feel confident and in charge of her new role as a mother...
It's possible that you do overwhelm her.
If you could start trying to look at her as a possible DAUGHTER, and not as a RIVAL,
and pour all the compassion you can toward her...it will help.
Don't just view her as an obstacle between you and YOUR gbaby.
Look at her as the marvellous person who created this baby with your son.
KWIM? It would be the hardest spiritual challenge you'd ever face, but
if you can hold her in your heart with gratitude, in some way, I know that
will eventually soften her fear of you.
Just remember that she's only controlling, because she's afraid.
love
Hops
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Hi Lupita:
I want to validate something here, so you can turn away from it in the 3-d world, and not have to share it with anyone involved.....
cutting you out of your grandson's life is a terrible act of violence.
Not just against you, but against your gs as well.
You can't say that out loud, or seek understanding in your situation, so I wanted you to experience it here.
It's the truth, but saying that out loud will harm you in the situation.
It's also true that your DIL will likely thwart your son's first attempts to set up a visit with you and your gs, however,
if you remain level and positive there's a chance things will improve.
IMO, your son will advocate for you more heartily if you aren't being negative, and adding to the conflict.
I'm hoping your DIL will get bored with jerking you around. That only has a chance of happening if you don't give her the reaction she'll be expecting.
If she gets bored with jerking you around, she might have time to remember how nice it is to have some time in the house without her child, and her mother requiring her attention. She might actually ask your husband to set up a visit if you play your cards right; )
That's the hope.
Lighter
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With the greatest respect for Lighter, who is strong, unequivocal and powerful in so many ways...
I gently disagree with "a terrible act of violence."
I think that kind of rhetoric amps up the intensity and polarization, which ultimately will increase the estrangement.
It may not be accurate, but what I read is that DIL doesn't want Lupita to babysit.
That's pretty tough, but I don't equate it to "cutting her out of her grandson's life."
Because Lupita's son is planning to bring his baby to see his mother monthly.
I do think it's a terrible situation and that the DIL's feelings are powerful and worrisome.
But I repeat my suggestion that compassion, not "enemy language" -- will increase Lupita's
chances of smoothing over the conflict and restoring her relations with all of them.
Couldn't be more critical, in my view, than now, to have an objective family counselor
help them re-negotiate baby time. If that's at all possible, Lupita, I hope you can have
a few sessions.
From inside the stockpot, it's terribly hard to see what's going on in the kitchen.
love to you, and Lighter too--
Hops
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I love this board for the wise information you can get from the people here.
Thank you Light and Hop. I am mixing the advises.
it's a terrible situation and that the DIL's feelings are powerful and worrisome. compassion, will increase chances of smoothing over the conflict and restoring relations with all of them. have an objective family counselor help re-negotiate baby time.
If she gets bored with jerking you around, she might have time to remember how nice it is to have some time in the house without her child, and her mother requiring her attention. She might actually ask your husband to set up a visit if you play your cards right; )
this last one is my goal
Gracias
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I am not as desperate as I was. but the pain is very big.
I dont think i can forgive this daughter of a bitch. I cannot. But I can do my best to pretend so I can have the baby. I will never trust her again. She is a snake and she will bite. It is in her DNA.
I have to be very careful and very prudent. Not loving.
Respectful, prudent, careful, very very careful.
I wish they get a joint custody and they divorce soon. I wish that.
God!!!! Please help me.
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I have never seen my eneymie to be punished by God. Neved. Ever.
I wish she was punished. I wish she suffered. I dislike her.
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Lupe:
You may not see the harmful people in if your life punished, but this life is hard. They suffer, just like everyone else, and if that comforts you at all, grab it and file it for future reference. Every time I have the urge to feel like the harmful people in my life are getting away with it, I just remember how hard life is, and trust that God reaches out and touches us all for unkind thoughts and deeds. I BELIEVE that, and I don't wish harm on anyone, or pray for negative things to happen, bc it only backfires, and harms me, IME. have to trust God, and fate, and try to have the best darned life I can have, which is impacted negatively when I waste time on the negative rabbit holes.
Life is here, right now, in our own heads, where our feet are. It's looking into the eyes of a child, and making them feel seen, and heard, safe and loved while embracing the change in weather, and what we find under rocks. THAT's a good life, and that's what it's about.
About act of interpersonal violence....... it's real. As real as a punch in the gut, or a choke hold, and I can say I prefer the gut punch, bc I've experienced all those things. The ongoing interpersonal terrorism in my life is more harmful than a punch to the gut, esp as it effects everyone in my orbit.
You have a right to feel harmed when your DIL attempts to block you from seeing your gs, esp since you've been in his life on a regular basis since his birth. It's evil to deny you that, just to harm you. It's truly evil, but your DIL can't do any better. It's sad, and painful, and wrong, but your DIL can't do any better. She's broken, and it's better to wonder what happened to her that made her feel she needs to behave that way, then be glad you aren't having that kind of life right now, and turn back to what you want to model for your gs.
Model forgiveness, and compassion.
Turn back to what you'll do with the time you do get with him..... to the positive happy things you DO have in your life.
Like I said, when your DIL jerks you around with seeing your gs, don't escalate. Don't spend time dwelling on the loss/unfairness/pain....
think ahead to when you do see your gs. It's coming, and will come again, and you have the choice of how to handle yourself in this situation.
Remember when you and I first started posting to each other? The imaginary helmet? To keep things out, before they can get in and trigger you/pull you down/harm you? Don't let DIL into your head, Lupe. It will take practice, but you're smart, and you can do this.
Forgive her, and know she can't do any bettter, of she would, bc she loves her son, and your son, and harming them isn't what she'd want if
she
could
do
better.
She can't.
You can.
Rise above, gain some emotional distance, and remember.....
your DIL is following the voices in her head, and the scipt that likely helped her survive as a child, but now harms her in her life.
It harms your entire family, and it's sad she can't give them more joy, but she can't.
How can you mitigate that harm? If at all? Certainly limit escalation wherever you can, right?
Not one negative peep to your son. He'll help you more if you aren't part of the problem, Lupe.
That's what you have to work with. Getting angry robs you, and you have the choice to adopt an attitude of intestinal fortitude, and always always always go back to wondering what happened to your DIL that makes her act that way....
shrug....
be happy you're having a better, day, week, month, life, and go on about a better day, refusing to let her drag you into the depths of despair.
That's the choice you have, and IME modeling that, in deed, word and esp your attitude/ spirit when around your gs IS HUGE. Kids can sense how we feel. THEY KNOW.
It will be huge for you too, and I'm praying every day your DIL stops lashing out, as you gain some distance from her, and you get a regular schedule with gs, and go on about your business.
It's going to be OK, Lupita. Trust. Be positive, or as positive as you can, vent here, and know all will be well.....
you're going to be OK.
We can't defend against stress and the fight or flight chemical dump. All we can do is try to STOP it from getting into our heads, before it starts, if we can. We choose how to handle the asshat in traffic, the mean waiter, the emotional slap from a family member, and either let them make us feel victimized, and rotten....
or not.
Don't let them control you, Lupita. Don't let them pull you down, and rob you of your joy. Ask yourself.....
I wonder what happened to that person instead.
Make it a habit.
Find your serenity Lupe, and I know I've been posting to you for years and years, and that you usually don't get much of what I say, but I keep saying it, bc your such a good person, and your challenges were inflicted on you by your mother, and it's not fair, and I want so much more for you. You've grown so much, and it's been so nice to witness your victories: )
Much love, and light...
Lighter
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Lighter, thank you for writing.
Why do you think I dont get what you tell me?
Anyway,
DIL accepted finally to go to counseling with my son and I. App on Tuesday at 4 pm.
I need all the advice I can get on what to say. If he asks what when why, to me, can I say I am hurt by her actions? I really want the counselor to realize that she has a personality disorder but I have to be careful what I say.
There has to be something I can say for him to know that hse is inflicting so much pain on me.
Please, write as soon as you can. Lighter, write, everybody, help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All my friends. please, write.
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That is such fantastic news, Lupita.
I would recommend not having an agenda about what the counselor sees or concludes about your DIL.
That would be manipulating the session.
This session is your chance to be open and honest about how YOU feel and how much YOU
want a positive, loving relationship between yourself and your DIL.
That's where the problem is. And if I were you, that would be my only goal. Not to be "right" (as
in proving her "bad") -- but to be happy (have a renewed relationship with her and more time with
your grandbaby). If your focus remains on proving what is wrong with her, rather than owning
the part YOU can own in the troubles between you, nothing will heal.
As to what to say? Listen to the counselor's questions and speak honestly. Only specific verbal
advice I can think of is to be sure not to use YOU messages. You this, you that, you think, you want,
you are.
Instead, stay with speaking for yourself and from your heart. You can say: "I feel so hurt when
you say you don't want me to babysit." OR "I feel so sad our relationship is strained because
I want it to be happy!" OR "I feel confused about how all this happened and I want to know
how I can make it better." OR "I feel frightened of losing my family when you are angry at
me...because I've already lost too much family." Whatever your truth is. But make it about
YOU and how YOU FEEL.
Not about her. This isn't court. Your job isn't to convict her. Or yourself, or anyone.
Your job is to ask, "How can I make this better?" and then LISTEN to the response.
Good luck, so glad you're doing this. And please notice that your DIL is doing it too.
(I believe, from reading your series of posts here, that you might benefit a lot from
taking "NVC" in your area. I really do. Cheap or free, the classes are based on the
work of Rosenberg.
“All violence is the result of people tricking themselves into believing that their pain derives from other people and that consequently those people deserve to be punished.”
― Marshall B. Rosenberg, Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life )
It doesn't mean a person can't be a victim. That is a misunderstanding. But the training
might have a big impact on how you behave near your family, I think.
love
Hops
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update for us lupita?
just remember dil might be able to hear what your needs are if she first feels heard and that her needs are important.
I would be very focused on getting everyone's needs met and have that remain my focus. You might have to endure endless blame and scathing accusation that are actually about dil's behaviors and not yours. you cant calm things down if you defend or point out the truth. all you can do is endure....bite your tongue till it bleeds and steer things back to....
this is what I need.....what do you need or ask what son and dil need then tailor your answer regarding your needs accordingly.
The goal is to calm the dil and see more of your gs. what will dil say she needs from you? how can you compssionately state your needs and not jack up your dil and the chaos?
you can say....
I need my dil to feel safe and comfortable with all gs' grandparents...including me. How can I work to bring that about?
saying you need your dil to stop acting like a maniacal b@itch prolly wont solve anything so check your emotions at the door and be ready r
to help put concrete actions in place that help dil feel less threatened and negative about you.
God help you Lupe.....Dil might be counting on you getting upset and blowing it. Rise above with some mindful emotional distance and keep your eye on your grandson (((lupe)))
lighter
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Thank you to all my friends who wrote.
The psychologist was a university professor, with research experience, expert in family therapy and very knowledgeable individual. He did not let me complain, he asked me to say positive things about her. She complained and I defended me and she could not lash out back at me because what she said was so absurd that she had to stay quiet after my answer.
He asked what did we know about neuroscience and my son and I were very knowledgeable and she of course very ignorant she just watches zombies and walking dead, very shallow person.
He asked us to have a phone conversation fo 15 min without criticism. We are going to have that on Friday, tomorrow. He asked us to get together on Sunday and eat and she said OK. So, I am going to their house on Sunday to eat with them.
We paid $135.00 divided in three. My part was 45.00
I should be grateful that things start to get better but i feel so humilieated and powerless and insulted, my tongue is bleeding for biting it so much.
I am still depressed. And very resentful and wishing that I can dance over her grave some day but have to count my blessing that I am going to hug my baby grand son this weekend.
My only triumph was that she complained that I was playing with the baby in the guest room instead on the sofa like we used to, but I replied immediately:
"Your mother was on the sofa ALL DAY LONG" remember?
She got quiet.
Then she said, my mother is in Oklahoma now.
Then I said,
"You did not give me the chance, you kicked me out of the house"
She got quiet again.
So, she had nothing to say. Nothing. She breast fed the baby during the therapy session, she surely planned it to impress the Dr. She also said that I could not hold the baby during the session. What a devil.
But, anyway, she accepted to go, to comeback in two weeks and to do the homework of the phone call and the food on Sunday. So, counting blessings. The pain is a little less but still is there geting me exhausted everyday.
I did not update before because the sadness does not let me do anything. I barely get up to go to work.
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I believe your pain, Lupita.
Of course. I can't imagine loving anything more on this earth than a grandchild.
Demonizing and belittling her is going to backfire and I so don't wish that for you.
Let loving, mature, older-woman-who-understands-insecurity thoughts come in.
Let yourself stop hating.
Jealousy and competitiveness destroy.
Collaboration and mutual love create...happiness.
I am so so glad you're doing this process.
As GS says, feeling the painful feelings but DOING (the right thing, which is biting your tongue and NOT criticizing) is what changes your life.
love
Hops
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Are you OK, Lupe?
Lighter
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Sorry to hear you have a troubling daughter in law.
I am not thrilled about my son in law and at times feel he is ruining my grandchildren. He is wearing my daughter out as he is quite immature and makes impulsive decisions that are reckless, annoying and undermine the stability and joy of the family.
Once I told him off and was banished from their home and it took years to repair the damage. It changed nothing.
Now I try to follow the advice of Al Anon and mind my own business. However, I model respect toward my daughter and him. I don't think he has experienced that before and he is coming around slowly.
I also pray for him as I can just seethe with resentment over his behaviour toward my beautiful daughter. This transforms my feelings for him and brings me back to a more healing and loving place.
You just can't interfere. He is sexually bonded with her and mom has no place in their relationship. He will feel torn between the two of you and this only causes pain for him. Get busy with your own life so you don't focus too much on theirs. I had to and it was not easy. I felt so compelled to protect her but it was not the right thing to do.
Also don't watch too many crime shows as they show these evil women etc who are so far out of the norm
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So beautifully written SeaStorm.