Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: David P on September 25, 2005, 10:39:58 AM
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Hi all, well it was not good. In fact it was as bad as I expected ,maybe worse.
I met my folks in the T's waiting room.My Dad looked like he was about to tear off all the Reader's Digest covers. He was so tense and wound up. We made meaningless smalltalk and Mom looked totally spooked by being there.
My T came out of her office and ushered us in. I had all my notes in a folder and slapped the folder down on her desk in front of parents. About a month ago, my Dad was asked by both my T and me to get a copy of Toxic Parents. As we proceeded to get the meeting underway he made some comment about the local library not having a copy,and then a wisecrack ,"and they also did not have a copy of the sequel,'Toxic Children'." That kind of summed up his mood. Nice ! NOT! I knew that I was in for a tough time.
He had been browbeating my T by phone for a few weeks trying to grind her down. She fended him off as best she could but this guy is relentless ( how like an N).
During many early sessions with my T, I had discussed the events of my childhood and we agreed that I had been raised with abusers for parents and that my Father was the active aggressor and Mom was a passive aggressor. I was OK with those descriptions.
As the meeting started to warm up I pulled my notes and started to read about my recollections of events from as far back as I could remember.
I used the word 'abuse' to describe some of their behavior toward me when I was about nine years old. MY T stopped me , looked at my parents and said," Perceived abuse."
I said to my T," We never used that phrase, you and I called it ABUSE."
She retreated into some psychobabble about there being no real truths and that life was all just personal interpretations and perceptions,blah,blah.
My Father jumped up and looked like he had just won the Lottery and said," So this is all just about how David views things?" More psychobabble from T who was retreating fast. My Parents smelled a bloody victory and stared ranting about how THEY had been manipulated and this was all about how my brain had been damaged from too much booze and so on. My T was beaten and continued to babble on about how the long term objective was to 'bring us all together with love and healing'. More sentimental slop!! She just fell apart .
She did not understand that by saying that it was 'perceived abuse', she played right into their hands .They had always regarded my feelings,thoughts,wishes hopes and dreams ( and perceptions ) as utterly worthless,so when she talked about 'perceived abuse' she in fact had reduced the felony charge to a minor misdemeanor.
I did the best I could after that and tried to maintain the rage, but I did so feeling that my T had betrayed me. I am not sure why she did what she did. She and I had a few angry words after my parents had left,but she just rushed off to another office across the hall making some excuse as she walked away.
What do I do now? Fire her ass or get another T and start over, or forget the whole deal.??
Any comments?
One exhausted David.
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I would surely get another therapist, but more importantly..you need to understand that confrontation with Nparents will NEVER amount to any good for you. Standing up for yourself is one thing..that I am all in favor of. In time they will see you as someone they can't mess with anymore and you will become "boring" to them. You're not giving them their supply anymore so they'll be on to bigger and better things to get it. That's your ticket out. I understand your personal need to lay all of this out in front of them..I think we all go through this and it's part of the healing process. But if you're waiting for them to have some revelation and take any personal responsibility for anything..you'll be waiting until Hell freezes over. It will never happen. The most you may get is "we did the best we could" which is just an attempt at them to get you to accept that they did the least that they could get by with.
My advice..distance yourself from these people NOW. Get on with your own life and start healing your soul.
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David, Im so sorry about your T
So this is all just about how David views things?"
Im not an expert on T stuff, but if your father is an N, they most likely he will never admit it's any of his problem. Only months and hours and hours of T for them before they begin to see the light.
I would try and work alone with the T. Maybe your mom and you could work it out.
N's will twist everything around to make you feel just like he did.
Your view is important, why you did drugs may have been because of the pain from him.
Not knowing how to deal with an N as a child is understandable. Look at your T, she ran too!
Your father may need to sit in the corner and watch how you can grow without his twisted input.
It's sad but we here have seen the devistation they will cause. Learn how to grow in strength about who you are and your VIEW of life. Don't get wrapped up in seeking their approval for now, until you approve of who you are. I think it's a waste of time to get your father to understand you, he will not see it your way.
It's like a kid in school that is a smart ass! he knows it all. The teacher tries to explain the rules and he just keeps telling her how she is the stupid one. How he will ever learn is beyond anyone.
Do you keep trying or let him learn the hard way. He does not want to change, he already knows it all.
good luck ...................OR
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In fact it was as bad as I expected ,maybe worse.
David. I am sorry you are still in this muck. Have you ever heard the expression: you get what you expect? I think it applies well here. It sounds like you are mired in the negative energy of your N parents (father in particular). He is still in control of you, your thoughts, your reactions. Until you "leave the ring" entirely (boxing metaphor) to let him "swing at air" or another "opponent", things will not change. I'm sorry.
The therapist was doing what any "negotiator" will do: if she wanted your parents to be "open" to what you had to say, do you think "I think you are just as screwed up as David does" would have helped? Calling it "percieved" was her attempt at keeping them receptive to seeing that what they saw as acceptable parenting, was percieved by YOU to be abuse. I don't think she was undermining you, rather attempting to make a certain train wreck, stay on track a bit.
Frankly, I am surprised she agreed to any of this, as if she knew anything about abusers/controllers, she wouldn't have let you bother...but maybe you are persuasive.
Anyway, can you see how the negativity just grew and grew? Until you learn to DROP this as your focus....you will see your life as this negative runaway train. Only you can save yourself, not your therapist, not your parents suddenly realizing how screwed up they are, etc. (and that's unlikely).
When we focus on what we DON'T want in life....we get more of the same. It's the way, I believe, energy works.
When I find myself focusing on my ex, what he is thinking of doing next "to me" in court, what his strategies might be....it's ok for a second or two, for I need to plan, but quickly it can turn into nothing but negativity and I have given him control over my thoughts. (always a choice...whether you are consious of it or not).
I realize that I can stop the downward spiral of my own precious thoughts...and "leave the ring" emotionally. It's all about finding what you want for my life and making that my focus.
I will echo what others have said before: wanting to right an injustice (believe me, I know about THAT one!) or to show these screwed up people the error of their ways is FUTILE!!! Got that? FUTILE.
If you see it as "then they have won..." well, heck, that's a mind game you can play in your head or not... (I'd choose not).
If you see it as "there is no hope for them, I cannot save them, God bless them but I have to LIVE my OWN life..." then YOU have won! Won what? Your life back! Your power back!
Another expression for you to mull over: "Attachment equals suffering".
What are you attached to that is causing you suffering? In my life, it is that I am attached to something I cannot control, but am emotionally attached to having that control anyway. A certain recipe for pain. Let it go, David. Let your parents go. (and that will hurt). Pain is there for us to learn lessons in life.
Learn it and you will be free. This doesn't mean you won't feel pain again, it's just you will know what to do with it...which is to let it go, again and again, and refocus on what you DO want out of life. You get to choose.
Bless you, David. The best lessons in life are the hard ones.
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It's all about finding what you want for my life and making that my focus.
OOOPS. What a lousy editor I would be (am)! Of course, I meant to make this entire sentence first person (noone else needs to figure out what I want...... :oops:)
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Hi David,
I am so angry with your therapist that I don’t have words to express it. She has betrayed you all right. “Perceived abuse,” huh? Might as well have said alleged abuse. Even in a court, it is only opposition lawyer who uses words like alleged, not your own.
I don’t think that the confrontation was doomed from the beginning, if you’d had a competent and experienced therapist. It seems to me that your purpose was not to change them, but simply to say to them with the support of your own therapist that what they did was wrong. I can relate to that.
Although most of us had scented something quite wrong with T from the beginning, I am really astounded by the level of her betrayal. First she incites you to have this confrontation, then she does not make her own role in it clear to you, then she makes you doubt yourself and pulls a crazymaking number in presence of your father by calling it perceived abuse, then she talks about happy reunions. I also suspect that you and T were working at cross purposes. She probably fancied herself as the mediator, and may be you expected her to be your defense lawyer. It is inexcusable that she did not spare any time for you afterwards. I am sorry to break it to you, but you have been taken for a ride by her! She probably has unresolved issues with her own parents, and instead of confronting them herself may be she gets off on getting her gullible clients to confront.
David, please dump this therapist. Take it from a therapy abuse survivor that you’ve been abused. Go to her, express all the anger you feel about the situation, and then walk out. At best she is incompetent and immature, at worst she's abusive. I’d advice you now to focus on healing with another therapist, hopefully experienced in N abuse and AA issues.
Marta
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David
I am really sorry about what happened. I can absolutely understand the difference between talking about 'abuse' and 'alleged abuse'. I have discussed this with several therapists, telling each one that it is important to me that they understand that what I say is true. Each one has told me that it does not matter to them whether it is true or not, because as far as they are concerned they are dealing with my perceptions.
I said to one psychologist, do you believe me? He said, I have no doubt that your perceptions of your parents behaviour are real. I asked him what on earth that is supposed to mean, and where on earth can you go in therapy with that approach? In fact we went very little further. Communication broke down completely at the point where my 'reality' was his 'perceived reality'.
Therapists might be happy with perceptions, but I have to know that what I say is true, because I have been fed so many lies, so many distortions, over so many years, firstly by my parents and relatives, then by my then husband and his family, that if ever I know I have lost my grip on what is real and what is not, I will lose my sanity. It is that important. If my memories are not accurate (within accepted parameters for normal memory distortion), and do not reflect in some meaningful way not only what I think happened, but actually, what did happen, then I might as well give up. What else do we have?
At some point, when I was small, I learned to think for myself 'this is not true', and to believe that, in the face of a whole world saying the opposite. A therapist would need to be alongside me in understanding that, before he would get anywhere in helping me. To call this a perception is to join with the perpetrators in laughing at my lone voice, and ridiculing my efforts to be who I am.
I have to say, I have yet to find a therapist who can understand this. Plenty to talk about perceptions, none who are willing to get to grips with true v false.
I am very sorry for what has happened.
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Hi all, thanks for your comments. I have written out my thoughts ( and my anger) to my T.
On the issue of 'abuse truth' Vs ' abuse perceptions' - I agree with Mata and October. Abuse is abuse in reality ,otherwise why define it in the literature.
The 'relativism' which is popular in academia and the meanderings of eastern religions about, "there being no truth, only interpretations" is such a limp and mindless approach.
Somewhere in 'John' we have Jesus saying,"And the truth will set you free'. If there is NO truth, then what is Jesus talking about. Of course there is truth and fact and reality. To claim otherwise is to reduce the world to a mishmash of personal conclusions, perceptions and emotional observations.
Winston Churchill said it best ," The truth is INCONTROVERTABLE. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is ." Smart guy!
I want to say to those of you who miss the point of what I am doing .I do NOT want or expect my parents to be understanding or to" change" . I have said this several times. A confrontation is about 'unloading' or'venting'. Some of you still reply asif I am expecting subsequent changes in their behavior toward me. Maybe I do but only in thie way that they will stop attacking me in the devious cunning sneering way that I grew up with. Maybe this process will make them worse. However I am NOT frightened of them any more,and THAT feeling alone is worth all the drama that is swirling around me. I cannot see how licking my wounds in private therapy for a few years is courageous and self enhancing. It is just more victim behavior to me.
See you all soon..David.
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Oh, David, I am so sorry. Fire your T. She absolutely betrayed you and set you up for it. I would be so angry with her.
Best thing you can do with the parents is detach....totally. Your dad is never going to get it. Mom eventually might, but she has never protected you from the abuser, so it the relationship worth it?
Alleged and perceived have no place in therapy.....abuse is abuse.
A very angry on your behalf,
Amethyst
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David, your therapist absolutely utterly betrayed you. Worse even than that, she deliberately set you up. If she knew she didn't have the guts to go through with this - and she damn well should have known, she's a therapist, knowing things like that is what she is paid for - she should have called it off. But to sucker you into putting your stuff out there, and then fall all over herself placating your abusers by JOINING THEM!
I am furious for your sake, and am thinking very violent things, which I will keep to myself because they won't do anyone the least bit of good.
Now for a bit of advice: Dump her, at Warp speed.
And before committing to your next T, tell each candidate in no uncertain terms that you were abused by your prior T and want to be damn certain that (a) this will not be repeated and (b) you will instead be helped to deal with it.
Longtire had a relevant experience recently - hopefully he'll see this thread and chime in about how he changed Ts.
Please also see an elder law expert and check to see if your state has a 'destitute parent' law. If it does, your parents have a legal way to abuse you financially at some future time, and you may want to take steps to prevent that.
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Hi David,
I wonder if putting your thoughts and complaints about your parent's abuse in the form of a letter or a series of letters to them might more effectively achieve your ends. You would eliminate any unreliable middlemen such as your T and you wouldn't have to listen to your parents pathetic rationalizations and projections. You can be assured they, especially your father, will read every last word you write, so you need have no fear of your words being tossed away unread. Ns can't resist hearing anything, no matter how negative it is, about themselves.
If your goal is to get on record and in their face what they did, then the written word can be perfect.
If your goal is to somehow dominate them or shut them up I think you'll have a long sad time of it. I believe face to face confrontatons with Ns are hopeless for relatively normal people precisely because we are relatively normal and they aren't. For me that type of confrontation never satisfies because they always redirect the thrust of the conversation away from their own guilt. They have spent a lifetime practicing redirecting blame. They're like master matadors sidestepping the consequences and recriminations of their own misbehavior and we usually end up like big dumb bulls with a sword through our heart.
They will almost undoubtedly attack you more not less. The only hope of shutting an N up is to so threaten his facade of competence and superiority that he has to retreat. It is very difficult to get to that position; they are master manipulators and slanderers. If you ever did get to the point where you were able to go toe to toe with them as long as they can and in the same way as them, I'm afraid you may have become more like them than you would like.
Jesus said something else one time. 'What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul.' Just make sure you don't lose your own soul trying to hook the b*****ds with your horn of justice. They never tire of slipping the sword in when you're off balance. It seems to be their only pleasure in life actually.
mudpup
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David, I'm sorry to hear that you had such a miserable and disappointing experience with this. I get the strong feeling that your T may have theraputical "experience" with NPD and abuse. Which is to say, no personal experience at all. I don't get the feeling from your posts that your T is unhelpful or incompetant. I do get the sense that they may not be able to understand or "get" this enough to help you in this situation. If you do decide to change T's, I would recommend that you talk to your T and tell them how hurt, disappointed, angry, etc. you feel before you switch, even if it is only over the phone. That is the one thing I would do differently in changing T's next time. You have every right to be heard one last time. Your T might even try to explain away the behavior or go into the "how do you feel about that? line. Don't buy the "I'm an expert" or "I was doing this technique," etc. excuses unless they actually ring true for YOU. It is clear from your posts that you know what you want in this area. You deserve better. Personally, the only way I would keep this T is if they acknowledged their mistakes and apologized profuesly for the hurt they caused.
Trust your perceptions, then and now. What did you hear? What did you see? What did you feel with you body? These things are true. Live you life accordingly. So easy to say, but tough to do.
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David,
I pretty much agree with what everyone wrote. They DID abuse you, as my parents abused me. Plain and simple. When I read your post, the first thing that tipped me off was your T telling you and your parents BOTH to get "Toxic Parents". WTF? Why on earth would your therapist want your parents to read that? So they can resolve their issues with your grandparents? If this was a battle, she just gave the plans for attack to the enemy.
Really dumb move.
You don't need warm and fuzzy; you needed some righteous affirmation that the evil things done to you were wrong and that they did them and that should apologize at the very least. I would find another therapist. I would also write one final goodbye letter to your parents, telling them what they did, how it hurt you and until they get it, you will not communicate with them anymore.
I did this with my dad. i can start to think clearly, and my soul is starting to feel like it's mine again. David, you don't need them anymore.
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Hi David,
I agree with everyone: your T blew it. Dump her. I'll bet this is the first time she has conducted a confrontation...even if she is a "good" T, she absolutely annihilated any comfortable feeling I would have with her. I would not feel she took me seriously if she said "alleged" abuse. Why would you make it up? How did she experience your dad? Why did she even say that?
The scene reminded me of the first anecdote Scott Peck writes about in "People of the Lie" where the parents are simply going through the motions in order to look like concerned parents of a troubled boy. Then when SP tells the parents his conclusions, the dad, a lawyer, jumps on the fact that this is just SP's opinion of what's going on, and opinions are not facts are they, doctor? and the runaway train gains speed and the kid is toast. (Exception being that SP was taking the kid's best interests and advocating for him. Ahem.)
I must follow up on what October said about truth. I just went up against a bully at school who has been antagonizing one of my kids for, like, ever. I caught the bully in the act and jumped on it. Bully's mom calls me to "get my side of the story". :shock: I let her have it. I totally did not care if she believed me or not. After years of enduring crazymaking behavior, I knew that to get caught up in he said/she said is a total waste of time. I just said, the bully knows I got his number. He knows and I know what really went down. I don't care if you believe your child or me (I said to the mother). Go ahead and take him out for ice cream. But he knows that I know the truth. So back off.
Your T is an idiot and I'm glad that your dad put her through the grinder to be quite a stinker about it. She naively thought she could handle him. Wrong. I am glad that your dad's "power" is shrinking in your eyes. You're not the punching bag anymore.
peace! MP
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Hi David,
While I'm not the right person to evaluate a T, having had few experiences with one, I must say that I was apalled by your t's lack of integrity.
For me, once trust is gone, I have a hard time opening up again.
She ought to apologise profusely, but even if she does, you can still fire her. You don't owe her anything.
Also, why did your T allow your dad to continually beat up on her all week and wear her down? Is she very young? Why would she start to see things from his perspective? Stockholm Syndrome? Is she very weak? Why would she set that whole thing up? Isn't she YOUR therapist? I have never heard of a T having multiple conversations with an abuser. For what? To get the 'truth'? From an abuser? What is up with that? And you're paying her?
What I did not get from your post was, how do you feel? On the whole was it useful or harmful? What do you want to do now?
I did get that you wanted to confront in order to come from a position of power and fight back those whose foot was on your neck for so long. I cannot totally disagree with that. But in the long run, face it. You might never get the satisfaction you want and need from them. And you could get stuck seeking it. Like everyone else, I say, the worst thing you can do to an N is to walk away and not look back.
If you actually succeeded in making the confrontation a thing of horror for them, they would be glad to see you go. But if you fade away when they still have little idea you are on to their lies, they are perplexed and they want the old you back - the you that has died forever, reborn as a person with the self esteem to never need or want them again. If you want to strike back, use a different weapon than what they have used on you for so long (they have major practice with it); use withdrawal. Force and anger and direct argumentation are their forte. When they lob their cannonballs at you, make sure they fall into the void.
However, having given all my advice, I can see that you will have to find your own direction. You are what in my family was called a 'hardhead'. That is probably the best thing about you now. You will find the right way for YOU, and you will get through this healthy and happy. Just make sure your anger is channeled correctly. If you can't get it out on your parents, because when you try it just creates more anger, where will it go?
After all you've been through, you are (rightfully) very angry. That is better than depression, anger turned inwards, but it can also be a problem if not managed. I have had lots of anger in the past. Sometimes it was controlling me.
So, how are you?
a preachy
Plucky
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Hi David:
By calling your experience "perceived abuse", your therapist invalidated your feelings.
In other words, you feel that you have been abused, you feel abused, and the T is telling you, and your abusers that this is your perception, not your feeling, insinuating it is unreal. As if your therapist could possibly know how you feel or what is real? She can't, it's your feeling and your experience.
A perception is a thought. Thinking you have been abused is different than feeling the pain you have sustained by being abused. I might be tempted to point this out to the T, in my letter of good bye to her. I don't think I would waste my time talking to her in person, as she would likely come up with a way to invalidate my feelings about what she did in that confrontation, adding more discomfort for my effort. Yes, Mud's idea of writing letters is a good one, if you ask me, and I'd suggest taking that a step further and sending a real dilly to that 2 faced therapist, who quickly abandoned you, infront of your N-abusers.
They have spent a lifetime practicing redirecting blame. They're like master matadors sidestepping the consequences and recriminations of their own misbehavior and we usually end up like big dumb bulls with a sword through our heart.
Right on Mud!! So David, refuse to leave the dock. Stand still and speak with a pen and paper and then walk away in the other direction. All the bucking and grunting in the world won't stop the sword. Leave it no where to peirce but the thin air.
Sela
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Well gang I am still walking around. I wrote myT and blasted her for betraying me. She called me and basically said that my anger is part of my problem and that if I am angry it is because, "You choose to be angry!" By this time I had about had enough of her psycho crapola -I CHOOSE TO BE ANGRY?
What sort of people talk like that? This woman is a looney tunes with a diploma. Is she serious?
I told her that she,"Emotionally f****d me over and I am firing her ass."
She replied that she is writing me in more detail and I should read her letter before I make any more decisions. Gee I can't wait for tomorrows mail.
Maybe I should demand a refund because I am dissatisfied with her service?? Anyone know a barracuda of an attorney??
David P (Do you think that I am getting invited home for Christmas?)
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Good for you for firing her, she has absolutely failed you and added to your experience of abuse... obviously she is invested only in defending herself. I wonder if any of the articles here http://www.therapy-abuse.net/ would help? I have not read them so can not recommend, just happened to come by the site this morning while searching for something else.
Good luck!
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Dear David,
She called me and basically said that my anger is part of my problem and that if I am angry it is because, "You choose to be angry!"
:shock: :shock: :shock:
she has absolutely failed you and added to your experience of abuse
Agree, agree, agree!!!
Holy Schamoly! Don't walk, run from this train wreck of therapy malpractice. Now.
MP
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Maybe I should demand a refund because I am dissatisfied with her service?? Anyone know a barracuda of an attorney??
Hey David,
I am so sorry this happened to you. But it is all part of the healing process. Even though it was pretty much a sucky experience, there were some useful things in it. Notably, the preparation for your onslaught. Your t might have been sorely lacking in the confrontation itself, but at least up until then she was not obviously incompetent, at least not from your viewpoint. So that was good. You got to vent, to be validated, for a while, and that is the road to healing.
Now, you have all this anger and no where to fight. Your 'parents' are either in retreat mode or fighting back with all they've got. Who's left but your T, who failed you and lost to your dad, maybe she will lose to you also?
You might feel you have to win SOMETHING now. Something! But all the 12 step programs, 5 stages of grief./anger, etc say that anger is one of the early stages and you have to pass through it. Or, you can get stuck there.
Thank about just letting it go and moving on. All that kicking butt and taking names can get old.
Plucky
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David:
She is not merely an abuser, she is also a coward. As soon as she saw that your father was a bully, she ditched you and joined the gang. And you may tell her I said so.
A coward, a liar, and a thug. Josef Mengele would be proud of her.
Feh!
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Yes Stormie, she is a coward. Nothing worse than a big Wussbag!
I am going to write her and demand a refund ! May not get it but it will be some fun trying.
"Dear T, I paid all your fees over the past three months. I assumed that you were on my side and that you represented my interests. However when the going got rough you found a way to bail.
I therefor did not receive the services from you that I paid for. You owe me $2200 and I want a cashiers check within 5 days or were go to Small Claims Court"
What do yoall think?
David P.
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Hi David,
I think you already know what I think, but at the risk of being repetitive, I'll respond. Either you
1. Really think you'll get your money back.
2. Want to make a point.
3. Need to bully somebody to feel better about your situation.
4. Just need to go ahead and crash and burn a number of times to get it out of your system.
Of course you are really angry with that dimwit T - we all are. I feel like pimp-slapping her myself. However, keep your eyes on the prize.
When I still had so much anger and did not fully understand the root of it all, I was much more argumentative with people providing services to me. I would fight to the death if I felt someone had wronged me. (My N mother is still like that.) Now I realise that sometimes, it is just not that important. And the result I want is just not coming to me.
Your T was sadly misguided. It might be better to report her to the entity that regulates therapists, so she can get more training or something, before inflicting her simplistic methods on others.
Plucky
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Hi Plucky
I know you really want to help David, but I don't think that characterizing his anger as bullying the T - when he has just been horrendously betrayed and abused by her, and his anger is wholly justified - is the most helpful thing to say to him just now.
Neither is telling him that he has a need to crash and burn - both of these things really come across as putdowns of David, at least they come across that way to an admittedly-not-totally-detached third party. He doesn't deserve to be put down. He's just been badly hurt.
I mean - we gals are always trying to get guys to share their feelings. Here's a guy sharing his feelings... let's keep it safe for him to do that.
Yeah, this probably is none of my business, but I tried to put it out of my mind, and even went away and had a cup of tea, and it still bothered me so much I decided I had to say something. I'll understand if you aren't happy with me, and I'm sorry if that does happen.
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moving right along...
David, Plucky's suggestion about reporting your T to the licensing board, or whatever it is, is an excellent one.
You might combine that with a request for a refund, if you're serious about seeking one. I believe that these boards do sometimes handle things like that, or at least can refer them to mediation... depending on where you are.
If you try that, you'll probably be most likely to succeed if you write the stuff you REALLY want to say, all hot and strong, and then put that in a desk drawer [or the freezer!] and write a very detached description of events... then wait a couple days, read the 'cool' version again, and if it covers everything, send THAT one to the board. We humans tend to attack strangers who express strong feelings, rather than supporting them, all too often. Don't know why. But it happens all the time.
Incidentally, enclosing a notarized (!) copy of whatever letter this T sends you, with your letter to the board, would probably clinch it, if you write your letter calmly and comprehensively.
Speaking of 'hot and strong', the best way to know if you have a winnable malpractice case is to find out if lawyers would take it on contingency. For future reference. This, I actually do know about. But I am not suggesting you bring a suit. This is just info in case you find you are really hungry for justice and that option becomes almost irresistible in your mind. Remember, then: (a) the law isn't about justice, unfortunately; and (b) if a reputable lawyer won't take the case on contingency, you don't have a case... they won't tell you that in so many words, but the actions say it all.
Good luck David. Thank God you found this board before your T did this hideous thing.
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Yes Stormie, she is a coward. Nothing worse than a big Wussbag!
I am going to write her and demand a refund ! May not get it but it will be some fun trying.
"Dear T, I paid all your fees over the past three months. I assumed that you were on my side and that you represented my interests. However when the going got rough you found a way to bail.
I therefor did not receive the services from you that I paid for. You owe me $2200 and I want a cashiers check within 5 days or were go to Small Claims Court"
What do yoall think?
David P.
Yes!!!! And if that doesn't work, there is malpractice. Is there also an association you can report her to now?
I know this T is a she, but she has no cajones. :P
PS. Don't worry about feeling angry. It will go away after you have taken care of what you need to do.
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Hi ladies, a couple of points - Yes you gals are always trying to get us guys to express our feelings -does that request NOT include anger? Maybe some gals just really mean only affection,and those nasty negative emotions like anger are taboo. Ladies, ya gotta except the whole enchilda !
Plucky, I appreciate your concern and your comments but I am NOT a bully and I do not see how suing a bad practitioner is even close to bullying. I need to do this my way (when the fire has died down a bit). I cannot just stand by and let abuse happen to me any more .It gives it license to prosper. Your way seems to be more retreated and passive. Do it your way if that is what makes sense to you .It makes NO sense to me. That way is the way of the beaten child and that was how it was for me as a kid -I don't have to take this shit any more in silence.
I am feeling depressed and tired now so I need to go watch Maximus( after I go to my AA)..Talk soon
David P.
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just popping in before I try to grab a LITTLE sleep--
My impression of your therapist, David, is that she is a dimwit. I don't mean that as a general insult-- I think she genuinely isn't that smart or intuitive. How old is she? How long has she been practicing? She is working from one book, for heaven's sake, and while it's an ok book it is a pop psychology book that should not be the be-all end-all of a therapist's arsenal on family relationships. And having everyone in the room read it as if she was assigning homework makes her seem pretty amateur. You can't deal with particular client's issues by just handing them a book, anyway. Not that books are bad, but she is trying to take a short cut that really smacks of lack of experience and/or dimwittedness.
She also seems to memorize psychological ways of talking without any sense of what she is saying or how it fits in her general philosophy (if she has developed one, which I do not think she has). So, Susan Forward talks about confrontation and she is all for that. Then someone else talks about "it is all perceptual" and "it is important not to make definitive judgments in relationships" and she says that to you. Of course, the two notions lead in utterly different directions in your case, leaving you understandably confused-- what the heck is she trying to say to you? She doesn't know, herself. She doesn't even seem to acknowledge that she is being inconsistent. There's nothing really wrong with either the idea of confrontation or the idea of re-coding things in your mind to better live with what happened, but either philosophy takes commitment and a particular life view-- just switching mid stream like that is-- well, dumb. And not helpful to anyone. MAYBE if she had really followed through and said to your father, "yes, of course it is about David's perceptions-- I assume the perceptions of your son matter to you. After all, in human relationships all we have are perceptions and it is unclear what your perceptions are, and whether you have any sense of what David's are, and this is a real problem. If a child perceives abuse, then the family relationship has broken down" or something similarly strong and clarifying then things could have gotten on track, especially if she kept to her guns when he started talking as if his truth was the only truth.
The alternative to my perception is that she so clever that she is at a higher level of cleverness than anyone on this list, in which case her letter will presumably be awe-inspiringly clarifying. Here's hoping...
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ps-- I'm not saying I take the "perception" point of view-- I was just trying to give an example of how a useful application of that point of view might have led to a better meeting. Saying that "it is all perception" is not a license to be wishy-washy or to run away from definitive statements and clarifications. Her use of that philosophy missed the point, in my opinion, and basically allowed her to abdicate responsibility for the situation that she at least in part brought about. Especially when she let your father say, in effect, "if it's just what David thinks, then it doesn't count." At that point she should have really stepped up to the plate, and instead she ran away.
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I am wondering if she will try to tell the Judge in Small Claims Court that "David's claim of lack of service from me is only his perception". Could get to be an interesting case .
My Mom called me to 'test the waters''.
She babbled on as if nothing had happened until I told her that I was in the process of writing out a list of her behaviors which I will not accept from her in future( if we do have any contact.) I could hear her take a huge gasp of air and she screamed ,"WHAT? I BEG YOU PARDON!" Poor Mom still thinks that she and old Dad can do and say whatever to me in whatever way suits them.
I repeated," I am setting some limits on what I will take from you two in future. When the list is done I will mail you your copy." It sounded like she almost had a stroke- noboby has ever talked to her like that before. This will be a hot topic for her to tell my sibs -talk about stirring the pot.
She sounded hysterical - like a one legged lady in a brush fire. A brandy may help, Mom.
David P.
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Hi David & all,
Doncha just hate it when the "helping" professionals do more harm than good? I have two examples of total malpractice: one was a counselor at our school who likes to accost parents in the hallway during dropoff and discuss their children with them in earshot of everyone walking by. Or wave nondisclosure papers and release forms at them. :shock: Another was a speech & language therapist who admitted that she parked my d in the corner while she wrote notes to other parents! She couldn't understand why my d was referred to her (nor could I) and thought my d was "playing games" when she couldn't remember certain facts of the story read aloud (er, hel-LOH! she has a memory problem?) My H's jaw just dropped during that little pow-wow.
I would be a little careful about how you handle the follow up with the T. They aren't supposed to, but some of the really twisted ones will pass along their "difficulties" with patients to other Ts to do the CYA of their own reputation. Frankly, I would just go find another T after I said what I had to say to Napoleon's idiot. I might document everything and report it to the board. I have to think long about that one, if it were me. But I might do it. And then I would want to get past the drama after giving my two cents and then get on with finding someone who knows what they are doing.
David, I'm glad you're p*ssed. I think everyone here has said one way or another they are/were angry. So you need your turn. Take as long as it takes. At least you know what it's all about. I'm still beating a dead horse over here myself. :? MP
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Vunil:
basically allowed her to abdicate responsibility for the situation that she at least in part brought about. Especially when she let your father say, in effect, "if it's just what David thinks, then it doesn't count." At that point she should have really stepped up to the plate, and instead she ran away.
Vunil, great point!
Mudpuppy:
Just make sure you don't lose your own soul trying to hook the b*****ds with your horn of justice.
Seriously seconded.
David,
It seems to me that by going to small claims court, you are setting out hoping for a victory in another losing battle. If you wish to take up an issue with your T, small claims court is not the correct avenue, but some kind of T board is. Once you write her this letter about refund and small court blah, you damage your chances of going to a T board. Although I am not a lawyer, as I see it, legally speaking the issue is not that she did not deliver the services, she did -- she showed up for the sessions, and you voluntarily continued with them, up until two weeks ago you thought she was helping you -- but rather she engaged in malpractice. So it is not a refund that you are entitled to for non-deliverance of services, but rather punitive damages for malpractice. Who will decide that she engaged in malpractice? You’ll need an expert witness for that. You’ll need evidence other than “he said-she said.” For all you know, your parents may be called as factual witnesses from her side. I see your chances of being affirmed in the small claims court very slight, and decent with a malpractice board. I see that you probably have no what idea what going to small claims court entails for a case of this kind.
May not get it but it will be some fun trying.
You are demeaning and devaluing what happened to you, by making it some ploy for cheap fun. Why do you want to take her to small claims court? What is the probability that you could win? If the judge dismisses your case and says that there was no evidence of abuse, how would you feel? Would you sue the judge? If not, won’t your anger keep growing? I ask these questions not because I have a shred of sympathy for the idiot T, no, I want her to be accountable for what she did to you, or I have any problems with your anger. But I care about you and what you are doing to yourself. Don’t think that this advice is coming from a book either; I’ve learnt the hard way myself. Of course you should do it your way, and I have no problems with you expressing your anger; I only think that you are going to end up hurting yourself further if you are not careful about how you let the heat out. The only thing some of us may be trying to tell you is that sometimes what feels like “our way” is not really our way; it is “their way,” or rather the way we learnt to cope as best as we could with the twisted realities of our N families.
If it is “righteous affirmation” that you are looking for, as Will has beautifully put it, then you are not going to find it in small claims court. May be you should find the correct avenues for this affirmation; stop looking in places where you won’t get it.
What did the slave owner say to Maximus? That winning with the sword was not enuf; if you really want to win the prize, learn to play the crowds and win the public. Do you know what it takes to win the prize you want? Do you even know what the prize is?
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She retreated into some psychobabble about there being no real truths and that life was all just personal interpretations and perceptions,blah,blah.
My Father jumped up and looked like he had just won the Lottery and said," So this is all just about how David views things?" More psychobabble from T who was retreating fast. My Parents smelled a bloody victory and stared ranting about how THEY had been manipulated and this was all about how my brain had been damaged from too much booze and so on. My T was beaten and continued to babble on about how the long term objective was to 'bring us all together with love and healing'. More sentimental slop!! She just fell apart .
One exhausted David.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
This is horrible David!
Your t acted like an abuser and joined your parents in belittling and berating you. Shame on her!
I am so sorry you went through such abuse of power by a t. The woman should have her licensed revoked. Despicable!
What you described is the typical behavior of an abuser. I've heard it all before with my h and his favorite words being my perception. What that does is take the heat off him. That is what your t did. She took the heat off herself and placed you on the hot seat.
I don't know if you are in the U.S. and what type of counselor she is. There are regulations in the U.S. which therapists must follow. I posted a web site about that (down below). Check it out and do follow through with reporting this abusive therapist and seeking a refund.
((((((((((((((David)))))))))))))))
Here is the web site I posted in another topic on this forum:
http://www.advocateweb.org/hope/costofabuse.asp
it covers more on sexual exploitation yet has lots of resources.
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Hi ladies, a couple of points - Yes you gals are always trying to get us guys to express our feelings -does that request NOT include anger? Maybe some gals just really mean only affection,and those nasty negative emotions like anger are taboo. Ladies, ya gotta except the whole enchilda !
Plucky, I appreciate your concern and your comments but I am NOT a bully and I do not see how suing a bad practitioner is even close to bullying. I need to do this my way (when the fire has died down a bit). I cannot just stand by and let abuse happen to me any more .It gives it license to prosper. Your way seems to be more retreated and passive. Do it your way if that is what makes sense to you .It makes NO sense to me. That way is the way of the beaten child and that was how it was for me as a kid -I don't have to take this shit any more in silence.
I am feeling depressed and tired now so I need to go watch Maximus( after I go to my AA)..Talk soon
David P.
((((((((((((((((David)))))))))))))))
Your anger is justified and needed in order to take action against the injustice and abuse your t inflicted upon you.
Go for it, David!!!
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Thanks to all the respondents thus far.
My lawyer said that Small Claims court is a tough call because the Judge does not have the skills to decide the merits of the case. He suggested ,like Marta, that we go for malpractise. However that requires that I be seen by two of my T's colleagues.I can imagine the outcome right now. Maybe I am just being pessimistic because I am tired but I need to back off and at least wait and read T's letter to me which should be in the mailbox tomorrow.
I would not have the energy to continue if it were not for you guys and your supportive strength.
I am still keen to continue with the original plan to 'confront' my parents. I just need to vent and have done with my impacted pain. It needs to come out one way or another. Maybe a letter would do the trick? I think that Longtire ( ?) suggested that approach.
The AA program is so cool. Kinda confronting in a gentle but measured way. I like the phrase ,"defects of character" Not politically correct by today's standards, but right on the money nonetheless. I wonder what I am going to do when I get to the step about making amends? I guess that in some ways I have hurt my parents too ( along with several oher people) Do I need to make amends to my parents? I will if that is what the program requires. However I have not talked to my sponsor yet about THEM. I am still taking my inventory step so I have a ways to go.
NIce people there, kind of eccentric .I like that.
David P. ( going to Block Buster fora nice DVD)
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Hi all:
David, if I had a therapist and she behaved the way yours did, after spending so much time preparing with me for that confrontation, taking my money, pretending to support me, and then "wussing" out, as you put it, when the day finally came......I'd feel very angry too, I think, and disappointed, and betrayed, and insulted, and tricked, and belittled, and ripped off, and distrustful of therapists??, and abused!!! Your feelings are valid, whatever they are.
Ofcoure, you will express them as you choose, to the therapist directly, in writing, by sueing her, by reporting her to authorities, or indirectly by painting the fence, jogging 5 or 10 miles, or by pounding on some bongo drums for a period of time (my fav 8). The thing is.....it's ok and necessary to express/release your feelings and you get to choose whether you wish to do that in a way that does, or does not, cause harm to anyone else. That's the beauty of choice. We all get to live with our choices eh ( :roll:).
:D Sela
PS: Plucky! ....anger is one of the early stages and you have to pass through it. Or, you can get stuck there.
Thankyou for putting it into words like that Plucky. I think you have really made a very valid point above and I am so proud of you for the growth and healing you have accomplished to be able to share this wisdom. Way to go Plucky!
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Maybe Stormchild and David had a valid point and it sounded as if I was trying to deny David his feelings, and counsel him to accept the aggregious behaviour of his T and just swallow it down. On the contrary, I share his feelings and he should feel them fully for as long as they go on. David's future actions are a different issue and can have their own fallout. I should not have used the word bully. I think Marta and Sela expressed what I was thinking in much better terms. I was just concerned that David allow his anger to start controlling his thoughts and actions. I know all about that. I lived like that for years. Lost years, from my perspective now. Years when my anger propelled me into actions that were eventually destructive to me. When my anger became a defensive wall that I used to keep from really having to feel the hurt. And a barrier from being hurt any more, by getting really close to anyone. I don't wish that on anyone. In my clumsy way I was trying to keep David from this.
Maybe I'm too close to this and putting to much of myself into it. David is a separate person after all.
Plucky
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I am still keen to continue with the original plan to 'confront' my parents. I just need to vent and have done with my impacted pain. It needs to come out one way or another. Maybe a letter would do the trick? I think that Longtire ( ?) suggested that approach.
David P. ( going to Block Buster fora nice DVD)
Hi David,
I used a letter of confrontation for my Nbro, Nmother and NishFather. Each one got a letter. They simply covered each other's *sses and told me I was crazy and we had a perfectly normal family. To this day that is their story.
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Thanks again guys, I do understand two things -
Firstly that this anger in me has to be expressed. Hopefully in a way that does not damage me in the doing.
Secondly that there are always seen unforseen consequences of our actions. I accept that a confrontation is the most aggressive form of expression and also that way danger lies.
However, some of the replies on this board are predicated on a projected belief ( on the part of the author) that I should 'speak gently'or not at all because that will smooth the path to future reconciliation with my parents and eventually we will all be good pals. I do not want a relationship with them.
I have tried all that I can think of to placate them, appease them and seek their approval over the years. It made them WORSE and it made me a 'people pleaser' and it did not accomplish my objective. The only way that my parents and I can be reconciled is if THEYwant it and are willing to do the work to bring that about . There are NO signs of that. My parents are dangerous people and I need to treat them as such.
Some T's are also dangerous as I found out.
Talk soon. David P.
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Thanks again guys, I do understand two things -
Firstly that this anger in me has to be expressed. Hopefully in a way that does not damage me in the doing.
Secondly that there are always seen unforseen consequences of our actions. I accept that a confrontation is the most aggressive form of expression and also that way danger lies.
However, some of the replies on this board are predicated on a projected belief ( on the part of the author) that I should 'speak gently'or not at all because that will smooth the path to future reconciliation with my parents and eventually we will all be good pals. I do not want a relationship with them.
I have tried all that I can think of to placate them, appease them and seek their approval over the years. It made them WORSE and it made me a 'people pleaser' and it did not accomplish my objective. The only way that my parents and I can be reconciled is if THEY want it and are willing to do the work to bring that about . There are NO signs of that. My parents are dangerous people and I need to treat them as such.
Some T's are also dangerous as I found out.
Talk soon. David P.
Hi David,
My Nmother, Nbro and NishFather are all dangerous people. I confronted them and then stopped seeing and talking to them. This is one thing my current t and I agreed on but my N-t didn't. She in fact encouraged contact which made my therapy precarious.
I should have added to my post that confrontation was a very important part of my healing process even if I never got a confession from them. Actually the more they defended themselves the more it proved they did the things I said they did. I also set boundaries at the time of my confrontations. And with my Nmother I have confronted her in person, on the phone and by letter. Not one of them has ever been to therapy nor would they think of going to therapy. They never will change and that is one of the things which makes them dangerous. The other is my Nparents sold me to my perpetrators and my bioNfather. Anyone who would do something like that is a dangerous person and never to be trusted.
One year I sent my Nbrother a nasty birthday card which I never regret sending.
"Money's tight
"Times are hard
"Here's your
"F***ing Birthday card!"
And another card which said,
"Jesus loves you
"The rest of us
"Think you are
"An *sshole!"
It was a very creative way to express my anger. The tone of my confrontation letters were very accusatory and not nice. It was my way of letting go of my anger and the relationship once and for all.
My NFather sent me a letter after the confrontation letters telling me that if I was "vitriolic" then I shouldn't write any more letters to family members. His response only spurred me on and that is the year my brother received those two cards above. My h and I made jokes about the word "vitriolic" for several years. The word "vitriolic" is now an inside joke in our family.
I no longer have that anger towards them because I was allowed to express it.
I found other ways to express my anger as well. I used to throw dishes and glasses from garage sales against my cement-bricked basement wall. I loved the shattering sound the glasses and dishes made. I would scream at my perpetrators while breaking them. One time an old toilet was removed from a bathroom. It was taken down into the basement where I took a sledge hammer to it, screaming at my parents and perpetrators. I wore protective clothing and goggles so I wouldn't harm myself. Very therapeutic! :lol:
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I have tried all that I can think of to placate them, appease them and seek their approval over the years. It made them WORSE and it made me a 'people pleaser' and it did not accomplish my objective.
Amen to that. Perfectly phrased. Its amazing how easily they manipuate us when we look back isn't it?
On the topic of suing your T. I have a lot of experience in court. :? :(
I'm there right now as a matter of fact.
Is your T insured? You'd be surprised how many professionals are not these days.
If she is, you can no doubt squeeze some dough out of the insurance company just to make you go away.
If she isn't I would leave her be and move on. Unless you can find somebody to do it on contingency (not likely I imagine) you're looking at at least 30 grand out of pocket and frankly not much chance of winning. Saying your abuse was only 'perceived' is wrong, insensitive, back stabbing, infuriating (insert adjective of choice) but malpractice is a very high bar to clear, especially when you're dealing with an area as vague as her opinion of your perceptions. You'd be throwing good money after bad IMO.
Actually I suggested the letter approach. Having many pointless shouting matches over the years which resulted in nothing more than a permanently throbbing vein in my temple and the image of my smirking antagonist etched in my brain, I have found the letter approach more satisfying. Keep in mind you must only speak the truth and not be overly hostile. Letters have a very long shelf life, so don't say anything you can't back up or anything you hoped you hadn't said.
As you've stated, the purpose of the letter is not to change them, that's not in the cards. Its to vomit the poison they have inflicted on you back out. Only when you do that (it often takes a lot of tries) can you get past the anger and resentment, which is just more one form of (indirect)control they exercise over you. When the anger begins to be replaced by pity at just how pathetic and unhappy they are and what a waste their lives have been, then you're on your way to really taking control of your own life. Its only at that point that you could ever think of making amends either. Its pretty tough making amends to someone you hate. Not so hard to someone who is just pitiful.
Congrats on AA. Hope you stick it out.
mudpup
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Well, David, I clearly missed the mark. I am sorry my comments about the therapist were not supportive and I certainly see that they were not. My attempts at seeing why the therapist would have chosen to do what she did caused me to miss the more important big picture. You know your story, I don't.
I realize that where you are right now is simply where you need to be. Like Plucky, though, I understand what harboring so much anger did to me. I acknowledge the need to go through it, but as a habitual lifestyle, it almost ruined me.
I also see, daily, what being and staying an angry man is doing to my ex husband. And although I bless whatever path you are on, I'm still sorry there is so much pain for you. I'm sure you will get through it somehow. Learning is such a personal experience....so best of luck, truly.
I hope you find the healing you need in whatever choices you make.
PS: from personal experience with a never ending court battle, I would echo Mudpups note to take care. There is a lot of misery to be spread around in the courts and very frankly, the attorneys are the only ones who come out ok in the end.(unless you don't care/have tons of expendable income...in which case: carry on).
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Just a quick question David-- why are you still feeling your anger hasn't been expressed? Seems to me that it has, but maybe I'm missing a part of the story. I have a theory about what is going on-- that you are expecting anger to lead to a personal catharsis, and it isn't, so you are assuming it hasn't been expressed enough. That makes perfect sense and I see why you feel that way.
Anger is really complicated, and I disagree that it is always something that builds up like lava and has to explode or else. I don't think anger always leads to a catharsis. Sometimes getting angry seems to create more anger, instead of less (there is a lot of interesting research on this, for those of us geeks who read such stuff)-- for example, see http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/nytimes.htm
This is not to invalidate anyone's experience that "venting" worked for them, but just to suggest other possibilities. The catharsis that anger is supposed to bring-- it just doesn't always bring it. Like others on this list I have found anger to be a bit addictive in the past, a safe place to stay for awhile when other emotions and other things I needed to be working on were too scary. It may sound funny to call anger "safe" but sometimes it is, or at least was for me. I really like the book "Dance of Anger" on this subject, in case you are open to another book.
I promise I'm not trying to be invalidating. Something is still worrying me, that's all. It may be the same thing worrying Plucky. It seems like our duty as a community to point out when we are worried, as well as to validate and encourage particular planned behaviors. I was sort of surprised so many people encouraged suing the therapist or otherwise getting revenge on her-- I think what she did was dimwitted but I guess I am more cynical and assume that her level of dimwittedness is pretty par for the course. If I sued people at her level of incompetence in my life I'd be in court all day. Maybe her letter with clear things up. I hope it provides *some* clarity, at least, one way or the other.
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Anger is really complicated, and I disagree that it is always something that builds up like lava and has to explode or else. I don't think anger always leads to a catharsis. Sometimes getting angry seems to create more anger, instead of less (there is a lot of interesting research on this, for those of us geeks who read such stuff)-- for example, see http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/nytimes.htm
I can certainly relate to this. I thought my anger towards my perpetrators would go on forever. It did for many years. I am finally dealing with sadness and grieving. It took so long to get here that I thought I was stuck. I wasn't. I've learned that the grief process is a journey and it takes as long as it takes.
From the article you mentioned ""They keep trying to get this emotional release, but it never happens," he said."
Interesting, I didn't try to get an emotional release from throwing things nor did I get one. I didn't do it for catharsis. I did it for the sound it made. I believe the sound was more important than the act.
I think this article may be true for some people though. I don't believe everything I read either, especially from sociologists, psychologists and psychiatrists. ;) In my experience it didn't happen. However each person is wired differently so it could be detrimental to someone else.
I've actually received my emotional release through writing my books, drawing and journaling. Expressing myself artistically has been very cathartic and at the same time relaxing. I've done more healing in the last 4 years since I began writing my books than I did in the 13 years before that.
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Vunil, maybe there are some inherent ( or conditioned) differences in the way the women and men view anger and its expression. Many times I have seen and heard women avoid expressing their anger because they believe that,to do so, will damage their relationships. It appears to be that many women almost 'worship' their relationships with others and place them as holy and noble, precious and also fragile.I have seen women fiercely protect and shield abusers and abusive relationship,presumably so they can feel like they are 'connected' to someone else and, in so doing,they can feel as if they are not alone in the world. I have detected that undercurrent in some of the posts on this forum.
Men,(I think) on the other hand are not so compelled to 'having to have' relationships just to be connected to others. I think that because we have a lower 'need' to remain connected to others,we are more willing to express our anger and risk possible alienation.
I guess,ultimately, that our challenge is to express our rage,anger and resentments in a way that causes as little damage to those whom we wish to nurture ,starting with oneself.
I do not expect instant healing or cleansing from an overt expression of my anger. I see anger and it's resultant- resentment, as similar to the pus inside a boil. The pus needs to be expeled and only then can the natural healing begin.
Just a thought for the moment
David P.
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Hi David, I agree that malpractice and board reporting is more the way to go. Many lawyers work on contingency. After reading what everyone said about small claims, I agree they are right.
Another thing you can do from now on is take a tape recorder to all sessions, especially if you visit two collegaues of the therapist.
I guess I don't have the fear of getting stuck in anger that many do. I certainly was afraid of anger at one point in my process of healing and believed that it might be devastating or that I might end up in a permanent state of resentment.
I confronted my mother by letter. It was gentle but I told her that she had not protected me and that I needed time to seperate and heal. My mother took it as if I had mortally affronted her and practically sat shiva for me. I was disowned and disinherited. We did have some death bed closure years later. I could not confront my dad because he already was senile. I did alot of "empty chair" work with my dad.
I happen to love the words "defects of character." They are old-fashioned words, but they place the onus strictly on the bearer of said defects, namely me. There are some things about myself that I have found have been almost impossible to eradicate totally. I consider them defects. I can only pray that they will be removed and replaced by better qualites, while actively working to make sure they don't manifest themselves constantly, running and ruining my life. A biggie for me has been false pride. I still have as much false pride today as I did when I entered the program. I know why I have it, I know it comes from being shamed and shame-based, and I know it is something that I constantly have to work on. It's even gotten to the point where I can feel it rear its ugly head and stop it from getting the better of me, but the fact is that I still have it.
Yes, when we make amends we also have to make amends to those that have harmed us if we have harmed them in return. A good sponsor will help you figure out how that can be done without enabling them or harming yourself. It does not include writing grovelling letters of apology. In many cases, the best amends I could make to former abusers was to stay the hell away from them and/or deciding to never let them have the opportunity to abuse me again. In the case of my very N and APD ex, any apologies were used by him as further ammo in his fight to annihilate me, so I quickly learned that the only amends to make were to not let him continue to harm me or my daughter...it that case, the amends meant rigorous battle. There are also some amends that should not be made in person because you could create incalculable harm. Let's say that you have been involved in an affair with a married person. You absolutely do not go to the partner's husband or wife and tell them,"Oh, btw, I am ________ and I am here to make an amends to you because I had an affair with your spouse." There is also the problem of making amends to people that you now longer can locate or who are dead, but a sponsor can help you with that.
From the side of early recovery, the amends step looks like Mt. Everest. Once I started making amends, I found it was more like a hill. Amends is not about apology, although apology can be part of it. It is about doing our level best not to continue doing harm to others and to ourselves.
Hugs, Amethyst
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My T is about 45 years old ( I guess) .She was a high school teacher previously -
When I first talked to her at the start of our first session,she got a phonecall from her home and she ranted and scolded the caller because he had accidently released her pet parrot .This bird was up on the roof and the caller wanted to know what to do next. My T was agitated and angry and I assumed that she was talking to her son(maybe about 12 years old) She barked a few orders at him and she eventually ended the call in a state of frustration, shakng her head and all. She turned to me and said,"Sorry, that was my husband. He let the bird fly out of the cage."
Something told me that all was not OK in the state of Denmark . Maybe I should have listened to my inner voice and found another T. However I have no confidence in that inner voice. I distrust my feelings and I always have to check with others to ask whether my feelings are 'valid'.
What does it all mean?
David P.
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David
However I have no confidence in that inner voice. I distrust my feelings and I always have to check with others to ask whether my feelings are 'valid'.
What does it all mean?
David,
It just means that you found yourself on the right board; it is not named voicelessness message board without a reason. :) It just means that you come from an abusive family and your dad is an N. You've just faced that a few weeks ago. it means you'll have to struggle to learn to I find your own voice if you don't want to be abused, so you better save some energy for that, and not pour all of it into a lawsuit. :lol: I lived like this for nearly four decades. I second guessed EVERYTHING; I could not rent even an apartment without checking with someone else first.
I was vaccilating over whether the T was just an incompetent idiot or an abuser. Now me thinks its the latter.
Hugs, Marta
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I just read the letter from my T( ex-T) . She essentially said that my feeling of betrayal and anger towards her are further indications that I am unstable. Her 'tone' in the letter was preachy and superior as if I had no right to challenge her-after all she was the T with a diploma.
She proceeded to 'help' me further by suggesting that I go back into therapy with someone else to,"explore your anger issues and your inappropriate responses". I really WAS getting angry just reading her snivelling condescending slop. What a b****h.
I am glad that I am not her husband OR her parrot.
David P.
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David,
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
B***H. SHE IS TRULY EVIL.
This is crazymaking, they first incite you and set you up to be angry, then when you rise to the bait, they proceed to preach you about your anger issues in a superior tone. God, I am so angry at what she is doing to you. I am hitting hard on my pillow right now. You trusted her and she betrayed you, quite intentionally I think now. She is really quite evil.
Following are two links to therapy abuse support groups. May be they know how to report an abusive therapist to a T board. Whatever else you do, dont write her an angry letter -- just because that's exactly what she wants you to do; she expects you to quickly react, so don't give her what she wants. Bide your time on this one.
I am so, so sorry that you have had to go through this experience.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1124/Support/tasfaq.html
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AbuseinTherapy/
(((((David))))) Take care! Marta
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I just read the letter from my T( ex-T) . She essentially said that my feeling of betrayal and anger towards her are further indications that I am unstable. Her 'tone' in the letter was preachy and superior as if I had no right to challenge her-after all she was the T with a diploma.
She proceeded to 'help' me further by suggesting that I go back into therapy with someone else to,"explore your anger issues and your inappropriate responses". I really WAS getting angry just reading her snivelling condescending slop. What a b****h.
I am glad that I am not her husband OR her parrot.
David P.
So, basically she is saying that you need therapy to help work out your issues.... Duh! It doesn't sound like she realizes *she* is the therapist who is supposed to be helping you with that! If you were already perfect (like her?) you wouldn't need therapy, you would be treating her! This kind of cluelessness (or pretended cluelessness) tweaks me no matter how many times I hear it. :evil:
Your feelings of betrayal and anger toward your therapist are valid, even if she hadn't messed up at all. They are still valid, valuable, and useful, even if it *IS* totally 100% projection on your part. Even I know that, so I expect any therapist to know it as well. And it is not just projection on your part. She screwed up and blew your trust badly, and has done nothing constructive to acknowlege your hurt and work to heal it with you. This stimulates all my betrayal and abandoment fears bigtime. :x
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What does it all mean?
I think it means you got a therapist who is inferior to you in the things that matter for therapy-- she is less intelligent, less articulate, less aware of what a professional relationship looks like, less able to think for herself, and less confident.
Writing you a letter! She is also less strong. I also have never heard of a therapist writing a client a letter. I think that action violates all kinds of therapy protocol. Also, it is just so... incompetent. Poor thing. The story about the parrot was just priceless-- almost like a monte python skit. Definitely listen the next time your inner voice says "run away" because your voice is right.
As for anger, I must have given the impression I am a much nicer person than I am :) I am BIG on anger and encourage it in a lot of folks on this board because it is such an important first step, and on a personal level I just get so angry at the abuse people endure from their loved ones that I want to myself kick the abusers butt over and over. Absolutely, anger is important. I'm sorry I seemed as if I was encouraging you to just suck it up and deal with your parents (and your therapist) to save the relationships. On the contrary. I just didn't want to see you, who are on a really important quest for enlightenment, strength, and growth, spend any time trying to punish this little therapist woman who has no idea what the hell she's doing. It is like spending the day swatting at a fly with a flyswatter or something-- each swat may feel like it will bring a release, but in fact it may have the opposite effect of making you want to swat more and more. But 10 or 100 or no swats, it's still just a fly. You have bigger things to aim for and worry about.
If that makes any sense. Which it cannot possibly, given how much sleep I am getting!
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I just read the letter from my T( ex-T) . She essentially said that my feeling of betrayal and anger towards her are further indications that I am unstable. Her 'tone' in the letter was preachy and superior as if I had no right to challenge her-after all she was the T with a diploma.
Unstable. Yes, that is a familiar one. Or, in full, emotionally unstable. I have met this one before. It means you have feelings, and you do not bury them under a ton of sand to prevent the other person seeing them.
This is used as an attack on you, to put you on the defensive. The reason for this is to deflect attention from the reasons for this state of being, which is her behaviour.
If her behaviour is reasonable, then your response to it - she says - is inappropriate and unstable. However, that is a big 'if'.
The alternative interpretation is that your response is a perfectly normal and understandable response to her behaviour in betraying you in front of your abusive parents. In this alternative scenario, if you were not feeling angry it would be a very worrying thing. You deserve to feel angry, and are right to do so. You are also within your rights, in feeling angry, to tell her so, and to request an explanation for her conduct.
She can choose to provide this explanation or not, but to deflect the attention back onto you is, in my opinion, indefensible. Even if her behaviour to this point were unexceptionable (which is doubtful), this in my view constitutes abuse, by seeking to pathologise a normal response within a person who is already vulnerable, and who is in a position of trust in relation to her.
I would seek further information re therapist abuse, as has been recommended by others, but I would not try speaking to another therapist as yet - in my experience the medical profession closes ranks very quickly to protect its own, and you will get nowhere that way. You will get only rationalisations and a metaphorical pat on the head.
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Found this link interesting.....anger workout (heehee....angrobics??? :mrgreen:):
http://www.coping.org/anger/workout.htm#two
Seems like your therapist vented her anger by writing you a letter, labelling you as unstable and as responding inappropriately to the abuse you perceived, and then...actually mailed it!!! :shock:
She's a bit of a nutbar.....to put it mildly, imo. No professional would do such a thing and sleep well afterward.
Her poor husband (and parrot) :roll: At least you don't ever have to see her again. Count yourself lucky because at least you are trying and will eventually heal from your past/pain. That woman is stuck with herbigsuperiorself (eooooow--gag icon please).
Sela
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Hello all,
Sheeeeeesh, David! What. A. Weirdo. :shock:
I would say "I have a right to my feelings. I have a right to express my feelings. I have a right to express my feelings at the person whose behavior incurred those feelings. That does not make me unstable. It makes me real."
Also, apologies to any teachers on the board, I find that many (OK not ALL) classroom teachers have real control issues. After all, lock down control of so many hormone-driven bodies is a job requirement! Yes, this is a personal prejudice of mine. An opinion and my opinion only! :shock: I must quickly followup and say there are many teachers I admire (really!) and I know I couldn't do the job. But some take it a bit too far and like the control/power/hiding out aspects more than the teaching/coaching aspects. So there, Teach.
I wonder what the parrot repeats when she's not around! 8) MP
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oh one more thing then I'll be quiet-- but therapy is a relationship-- the therapist's job is to cultivate that relationship and use it to help you to grow. What in the heck kind of relationship is she fostering here, with this letter? She is supposed to be on your side, the person helping you in your quest. I can't imagine on what planet she thinks such a letter fits in with a therapeutic mission.
I guess I do think that you should report her to someone or another, especially after this letter. Maybe APA or whoever overseas whatever kind of therapist she is? To me, the letter is the worst thing she has done, just do obviously incompetent and unprofessional.
Please do find someone better-- she is just not in the zip code of what a therapist can and should be. I hope she hasn't caused too much harm-- it seems as if she hasn't, because she doesn't have you questioning yourself or worrying that you upset her or anything pathological like that. Imagine if she had a really vulnerable client, though! She could do a real number on them. The poor person might think "even my therapist is rejecting me and thinks I am hopeless."
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Glad you ditched the b*tch, David. She is bad, bad news. This therapist needs to be reported to a licensing board.
Evil personified. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
I'm sorry you had to go through this with a supposed professional. Your anger is solely justified.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((David)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) BIG HUGS!!!
Her words are too familiar - my 4th therapist said nearly the same thing to me.
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David,
I applaud what you tried to do. My partner is going through the same thing. Your lives are uncannily the same. He has totally cut off his nparents and nsiblings now as I have with mine but in the past he tried to the same thing by confronting them and realised it was a waste of time. Cutting them out of your life is the best way, they can't stand being ignored and since they have angered you your whole life your only returning the favour lol. In the meantime live your precious life.
My partner's father is dying from colon cancer but he doesn't want to see him, let alone want to go to his funeral. To others this might sound harsh but they don't know the abuse he suffered behind closed doors and at how his father took his life savings, and sabotaged him with every step he took in life. Your therapist is a weak individual and I believe her judgement was clouded by her own feelings. Maybe she could never stand up to her own parents as someone else commented.
Hang in there, keep your chin up
malia aka genuine
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Hey, Dave P-- Have you heard of the Karpman drama triangle? Mudpup told me about it on another thread. I think it may fit your family. The kind of victim they want you to be was this meek person who let them (your dad) control you. Now the kind of victim they are painting you as is the "sick" one who is "mentally unstable." I do think it fits-- right down to your mother calling you after the therapy session to make everything right.
My family fits it, too. Or wants to fit it or perpetuates it or whatever the words are, because it isn't "really" true that I'm a victim. I seem obligated to fulfill that role around them, though. Here's to not fulfilling it... My dad seems very similar to your dad, except my dad would NEVER go to a therapy session with me unless he was pretty assured the therapist would show me "tough love" and explain to me that I am wrong. I think he would love to go on Dr. Phil with me and have the doctor yell at me :)
Anyway. Nothing like an armchair psychologist, is there? But thought you might get something out of the idea. I am going to do more reading about it...
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Have you heard of the Karpman drama triangle? The kind of victim they want you to be was this meek person who let them control you. Now the kind of victim they are painting you as is the "sick" one who is "mentally unstable."
That is definitely something to learn and look into David. Sooooo true, thats how my future inlaws persecuted their son and my own nmother is trying to make me look mentally ill as well.
Here is an interesting link: http://weinholds.org/growth_vc_3dtrap.asp