Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: axa on June 29, 2007, 11:16:18 AM
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I thnk a number of people here went back to their Ns at different stages. I am wondering what was the motivation and what the experience was like. I am never going back but am just interested.
~Axa
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I went back to my NH and am with him now (not remarried but we've talked about it and I wear an engagement ring). I am at the point of giving up my apartment that I had for a year. Making a long story short, I realized that the mental picture (what was going on in my head) was just as important as the behaviors that were taking place. My old thinking was that I had my choices taken away from me (learned helplessness), low self-esteem, one-down in the relationship (he was like an authority figure to me, more like a father - like my N father) and when I stripped these things away I saw that I was ALLOWING the situation to continue through my old filters.
Once I took power back in the relationship, it all transformed. Now I don't take on his tortures. I call the behaviors out that aren't acceptable and we communicate as 2 adults in an equal relationship.
Not perfect, but worlds apart from where we were 3-4 years ago.
Dandylife
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Dear Axa,
I have been intimiately involved with three Ns.
The one that I went back to was several years ago. He was the usual charismatic handsome silver tongued devil. We separated after he walked out on me and went to live on the estate of a wealthy woman. Jeepers this is what happened here. Of course he was trading up.
We were living apart but seeing each other for very passionate reconcilliation. HE was controlling when we could see each other so that we didn't jump back in and repeat the same problems. He said he wanted it to work. So we saw each other twice a week. Later I realized he was seeing two other women at least.
I would say that I knew it was folly but my passion or addiction to him overwhelmed my good sense. We yo yo'd back and forth for years. Each time we couldn't stay away from each other, but each time he was unfaithful. He just had to have other women. Each time it was like amputating a limb to go back to him. I knew it was dangerous but I could not resist him. And he was compelling and adventurous and a great lover.
He was like a death wish for me. Like sure I like sky diving or cliff diving but finally i realized that it would kill me.
The fabric of my life began to unravel during my relationship with him. I was going to university and I could hardly function, my grades fell. I became like Isabelle Adjani, a defeated woman, with only shreds of self esteem left. Finally, the day before I was to leave on my teaching practicum, he beat me up. He broke a potted plant over my head and pushed me to the ground by the hair and kept pushing my face in the dirt. He was getting destoyed by the relationship too. What a nightmare.
I called the police. At that time they did not take domestic disputes seriously and they advised me not to lay charges but to get a restraining order. I did this and they went to his workplace to deliver the order. This probably scared and humiliated him and I never saw him again.
Gioing back is not the answer. Big understatement. If I could have put that passion into connecting with life and with myself it would have been so life saving. Finally, we were done. I grieved for years though. I can still feel the shame of all that. I stayed away from men for ten years. I worked on my career and raising my child.
I realized that I just repeated history in my next relationship. I guess I am attracted to unavailable men. This is my siren call. So I am finally trying to understand why I am so addicted to some kinds of men.
I get sucked in when the man I love says : i willl love you until the day I die. You are the great love of my life etc. And really they are just words. It is so easy for some people to lie. Be careful and guard your heart.
Love,
Sea storm
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Sea Storm,
I'm so sorry you went through that. That's awful. The justice system doesn't take domestic violence seriously ever, IMO.
AXA,
With my NMum, (as with CB's experience), it took me years to decide to stop seeing her, so once I finished with her, it was permanent (on my side, anyway - she still tries occasionally to contact me, via one of her minions, but I'm not having any).
As for my Nboyfriend, sometimes after a row, *I'd* decide I'd finished with him, but he wore me down by turning up where I worked at the end of my working day, and to have a scene there would've been difficult (and he knew it), so I'd end up talking to him 'a bit', and he got to me that way. We'd end up 'trying again' - his words - he never did any of the trying, though, it was always me. It was just a trick to hook me back into going round again, and it worked for 6 years. Should've dumped him after a week.
Janet
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Dear Sea Storm,
I am so very sorry that you went through that. Did you have a childhood that "set you up" for this relationship, do you think?
Your description of that abusive incident reminded me of the time ( 2 yrs ago) when my H was holding a heavy wooden chair over my head ,in a total rage. It was so awful--- fearful ,humiliating and destructive of self esteem and self trust Love Ami
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I went back with my ex for five years-he left me for another woman two months after I had my second child. Their affair lasted five months, a pregnancy and abortion-she finally had enough of him. He got in trouble for lewd behavior in front of her young daughter. I wanted to drop kick him but my M mom would not have me divorce him. She paid for his lawyer. I bugged the phone and caught him in another affair and not even my mom could stop me that time. Mom would say have the sin not sinner!
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We hate the sin not the sinner! Oh yeah he was a sinner-at least 25 affairs during our marriage.
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I would say that my childhood definately set me up for falling "in love" with narcissists.I think I was probably pretty narcissistic myself. I wanted great love, great adventure, great good looks, great sex. Nothing mundane for me. However, this was a very rocky road and I was certainly humbled as time went on.
It is one thing to be attracted to an N and quite another to actually stick around for the abuse and humiliation. I agree with Janet when she describes going back to N after being convinced of his love. It just ends up with more of you giving and more of them taking. And it really just erodes what little self esteem you have. One thing is true and that is that history repeats itself.
If anyone is thinking of going back to their abusive partner give yourself a big break and postpone it for six months or a year so that you have a chance to develop friends and interests. If you are with an abusive partner you are probably too exhausted to do this but it is your saving grace.
Sea storm
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I don't go back. Instead, I burn bridges. Lucky me!! (Sarcastic!!)
We don't face good choices: Go back to the N so that he can try to destroy us or be lonely alone. I chose lonely alone and now I'm trying to get myself out of isolation.
Love,
Sally
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I went back to X friend online only. Why? Because I wanted to really try and make her see that she was a narcissist, and I was hoping she would see it and agree and go get help and then come back and profusely apologize to me and we'd work through things and be best of friends. I really wanted her in my life so I thought, if only I could get her to SEE how messed up her family was...
I even tried talking to some of the family members and they only brushed me off. Of course a parent would defend the X, because the parent was responsible for X turning out the way she did. EVentually X found out that I was talking to people about her and decided to cut ME off entirely.
Really, X has too many people who back her in things, so she never can truly believe she is doing wrong. It's a sad situation, and sad that she possibly is still like she was, thinking it's ok and normal and good.
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I went back to my N Father. I kept in touch, but stayed away at his request- his wife din't want me around, and he said it would make his life easier. During his final illness, his wife abandoned him in a filthy hole of a nursing facility, without a stitch of clothing, shoes or even his glasses. These people were millionaires, with a HUGE home, where her mother stayed during her last days. My father begged her to visit, and begged to come home, to no avail. His wife even gave the wrong cell phonenumber to the staff. I tried to help- the power of attorney was tough to overcome. I brought clothes, food, my laptop and his favorite movies, and the evening paer to read.
My father would command me to call his wife as soon as I got in the room. No warm hello, no fond smile. he knew how hurt I was by the banishment I had suffered. He criticized my appearance (I was exhausted, but still tried to travel the distance to see him) and everything that I did. I feel now that he is one, I no longer hurt during holidays, etc. I have never had gifts and holidays , and no family has called to see if I was well, etc. I know that doing my best for him has insulated me from guilt, however, and I am able to disengage again, instead of remaining tied to the whole N drama.
I went back to my husband (or let him come back) several times. I was sad, thought perhaps I could make things right, hought it was me. But I never made him happy- I was either obsessed with housework or a terrible housekeeper in his eyes. He left today ( I asked him to for the first time) and still,somewhere, I hoped that I was wrong, and that he would show me how silly I was. Instead, he called me a B----, and reiterated his favorite put-downs. I think that perhaps my isolation works against me, drawing me back in, and paradoxically increases the intensity of my emotions and dependence on the other person (parent, spouse,etc.), which then precipitates a spiralling out of control.
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changing,
First of all, gentle hugs to you from me. You have had a life of misery and frustration beyond words. I am so sorry that you've had to endure that. I pray that you have a good, trustworthy person to talk to about these things, and possibly a counselor. You deserve so much better than what you've been through.
Secondly, as I read about how your N-father turned out, I kept feeling like I wish I could reach X or someone would, before that too, is her resulting end. Right now, as far as I know, she is rather wealthy and she lives for that wealth. It seems often that those who lived their lives for riches and to torment others, have a horrid, lonely end. I really do not want that for her or her family, but alas, that choice is given to us all.
I'm just so sad that you went through all of that!
My prayers are with you.
~ReallyME
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ReallyMe-
Thank you for your post.t was truly insightful as to the correlation between my father's preoccupation with money, and his own fate. Years before, I had warned him that he was setting himself up as a King Lear prototype, and I let him know as well that I was certainly not interested in the Cordelia role.
I had a much older brother who I had never been told about, who was a a ward of the state due to brain damage. When mainstreaming became the norm for those in institutions, my father became alarmed at the idea that he might have to assume some financial responsibility, and he enlisted my help in going to the institution, etc. I loved my poor brother at first sight, and for the first time I perceived my father's N traits (somehow I couldn't discern this before, despite the incredible privations and abuses that I myself suffered as a child).
Later my brother contracted pneumonia, and he was sent to the hospital where he caught a "super-bug", and was kept in hellish torment. No one could enter the room without a "spacesuit" type of gear, etc. My brother was strapped down, fed through a painful tube, almost totally blind, mentally challenged, with no hope of recovery. He was a gentle and innocent sentient being in constant pain and isolation. I was stricken by this and did all that I could to help him. I spoke with his social worker about instituting a no resuscitate order, which would have spared him the torment he was going through, and she reacted as if I were a serial killer. I think he was the perfect client for her at that point.
My father was unmoved by my brother's plight, called me a "little fool", and said that he feared getting stuck with the bills if he meddled in the matter. I tried to initiate legal proceedings in order to get standing in the matter to no avail. I offered to shoulder the financial responsibility, although I was not wealthy like my father. My mother was completely out of the picture, I didn't even know her whereabouts, and she also had abandoned my brother.
My older brother, a prominent person who had left home the week of his 16th birthday and made his own way, was unmoved when I asked for his help and support in the matter. All of the "smart" people in the family were confortable; only the fool had nightmares every night.
My brother died in his torment and I still cry at the thought of his reticent and gentle manner, his life and his death. In an odd way, my father's last days mirrored my poor brother's. He begged for help, wanted to go home to his gigantic house, wanted to be placed in a decent facility, yet I could not overcome the machinations of his wife, and her power of attorney. I did what i could, yet I remained the despised Little Fool.
Even the burials of my father and eldest brother bore eerie similarities. My eldest brother was interned in a pauper's grave, with murderers and homeless unidentified "strays". My father did not inform me of his death until it was too late for me to make arrangements. My father had bought some expensive plots many years before. His wife actually told me that she couldn't afford a casket (my father often presided over Masonic funerals, and many times took over the expenses for poorer lodge members, etc so this was ironic). My father had a large steady income, real estate worth millions, etc, so this was beyond nutty. I think that she tried to sell the his plot, but was foiled by the law. My 'King of Funerals" father was cremated, his remains placed in a cardboard box, and given a pathetic service. My other brother did not even show up.
Love is what matters. I told that to my NH who just left. He also said that I am a fool, that all marriages are loveless. But I refuse to continue my family's sad legacy.
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Dear Changing,
Thank you for telling more of your story. It is incredible that you are still functioning after all you have been through. Much love to you on your journey. Someday you will be happy that your x left. At least now you have a chance to have a full and rewarding life.
I separated from my partner a few months ago and felt like a beaten dog. Many of the things you describe in your marriage were consistent with my relationship. The is a lot of shame in remaining in that subservient position and enduring the humiliation. But it is over now.
I have rebuilt my life one brick at a time. In the beginning I was so empty and such a codependent that I felt I had no personality left. Today i felt happy and worked in the garden, went for Chinese food ,read a good book and loved my cat and phoned my daughter, who is grateful that I am not in a destructive relationship anymore. I hope this can give you a little hope. You sound defeated and anyone would be who has gone through what you have.
Keep telling your story here. All of it if you can. You wll get validation and it will start to revive your broken spirit. We have been through it.
Take heart,
With Love,
Sea storm
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Hi Axa,
Are you there? How come you want to know about this? Are you getting any answers that you need?
Yer ole pal,
Sea storm
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Changing,
My love and care goes out to you for all you've endured. I'm most certain that your poor brother is now in the arms of a loving God in a place of peace at last. It is DEPLORABLE how people are often treated in health facilities!
~Laura
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Hi Sea Storm,
Yep, still hanging on in here. I suppose the reason I was wondering was because XN's Xwife went back to him. She had a significant breakdown before she left him ten years ago ended up having psychotic episodes and seeing a psychiatrist. She was unable to make a life for herself, abandoned her kids etc........ she blames him for her breakdown, which I have no doubt was was a major part of her problem and ended up going back to him. I know she puts a lot of value on money and material things and does not have much money herself. Also she has not worked for years. I guess the idea of going back to someone who drove you over the edge seems so crazy to me. She used to say to me "I was not the crazy one"........ I have no doubt she will end up having another breakdown but it will take time. He has not changed at all and never will. Just cannot understand why someone would return to the lions den.
You sound strong which is so good to hear. I so empathised with you after you broke up with Npartner. It is wonderful to see you back and beginning to live your own life.
axa
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today is the week "5" of NC with my xN. some of you may remember, I found out he had been seeing another woman, confronted him, & have not heard from him since. This is the 2nd break up we have had. the 1st one lasted 4 mos.
It has been very very difficult to be without him. It was hard the 1st breakup, and even harder now. Honestly, I don't know why he walked out the 1st time. We exchanged some harsh words with each other one night, and I didn't hear from him again in 4 mos. Poof! he was gone.
Not one single hr has passed these 5 weeks that I haven't thought of him. It is hard being without him. Knowing that another woman is involved with him makes it harder in my opinion. always wondering if he is enjoying her more than he did me, what they talk about, has he thought of me, what he is thinking,
ect...
a friend of mine tells me all the time he will be back. says he has only put me on a shelf for now, but will be back. he is a no teenager, and i keep thinking maybe he has found someone that he really wants to settle down with. Even though i thought it was me that he wanted. After all he has asked me to marry him, and had given me an engagement ring????
if he called me today, and wanted to come back, i am not sure how i would respond. I know he is not good for me, but there is something about him that i just can't seem to get out of my system. I know that most of you understand?
I just don't know what I will do if he calls. I am going on with life, but he still occupies much to much of my brain. I am preparing myself for the possibility that he maynot call, but i am not getting into another relationship. I know I am not ready for that... I am truly working on me, and the will to say NO...
Confused2
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Dear Confused 2.
I can hear your anguish so I wanted to respond.I am going to be really honest b/c I appreciate honesty.
I think that you are "weakening" yourself so that you will be"ready" to go back when he calls. Instead of "giving up the chocolate cake" and seeing yourself as "thin." You are fantasising how delicious the cake is. This is called "romancing the drink, food , man(or whatever addiction you are trying to break)
I think that you already know,inside yourself, that you will go back , The process of_"Should I or Shouldn't I?-"-- seems to just be a mental exercise that you are doing to feel as if you are making some choice I think that you have already made the choice that you will go back the minute he calls
I think that you are playing a "game" with yourself. I hope that I am not being too honest. The posts that help me are the gut level honest ones. You can get lies everywhere.
I give this opinion in the spirit of love Hugs Ami
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I'm not sure Ami, but i know today i want him back. if it be only for a minute....
your honest is appreciated. i have not said anything i haven't said to my Therapist. BUT! he(xN) hasn't call me and that is my saving grace....
to all that would like to respond, I can handle honesty. This drug is hard to kick
Sweetgrass
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Dear Sweet grass,
It IS a drug. You have to look at it that way. It will hurt you and maybe even destroy you. I ask you to use this time to go within and find out what is missing inside you that you will tolerate abuse.? What are you not giving to yourself so that you are set up for an abusive man.?
I can tell you that I am going through "hell" trying to heal. I am hurting, raw and vulnerable. However, the prize at the end is YOU. I am getting glimpses of peace and self esteem. Today, I had a wonderful gift. I realized that I can CHOSE my life rather than" let it happen." It was a gut revelation .
No man can ever give you what you need. You need to love and honor yourself.It is a "fix" to feel good from this type of guy. Go within and share your pain in life.I suspect that it is childhood pain. Share the pain that makes you want to feel better---- so badly that you will take an abusive guy. I am waiting to help, if you want Love Ami
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I'm not sure Ami, but i know today i want him back. if it be only for a minute....
your honest is appreciated. i have not said anything i haven't said to my Therapist. BUT! he(xN) hasn't call me and that is my saving grace....
to all that would like to respond, I can handle honesty. This drug is hard to kick
Sweetgrass
Run, run, as fast as you can. My daughter stayed away for 5 months....went back to visit her brother (another state) hooked up with xN for one night. What he did to her broke her....so much so that she hung herself 2 nights later. Run as fast as you can.
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sweetgrass,
My deepest sympathy.......... it really is an addiction and has nothing to do with him. I thought I could never live without XN he convinced me that life with him was so wonderful....... the more distance I get the more I see the madness. I know how terrible the pain is, how empty you feel. Sometimes I understand people cannot allow in the truth of the abuse and want another chance to "make it right" Nothing will make it right and that is what I have learned. Once you become the devalued one it just gets worse and worse. I threathened, set boundaries, which I broke, in the hope that things would improve but each engagement just got more and more abusive.
It is so difficult to come to terms with the fact that you are nothing to someone other than supply when everything else fails. Letting that truth in is such apainful experience. Six months down the line I struggle with the aloneness, the energy it is taking to rebuild my life but at peace with the fact that I that I am not waiting any longer for someone who hated me to see me, hear me. I think it was like a living death........ I am so grateful that I am not walking on eggshells any longer, that I can be myself, that I am not afriad of my presence annoying somebody. I am claiming my place in the world.
Please keep posting and get all the thoughts, fear out here it really does help.
Hugs,
axa
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Maybe there is some truth in what Ami said."I have already made up my mind to take my xN back if he wants back." I have to be honest and say I have thought about it. I also, must say I am not proud of myself. I am really pretty disgusted with my thoughts. He left me for another woman, has not called once in 5 weeks, and I feel I can take him back and be happy! I know my thoughts are obscurd. How could I ever trust him again?
I would be consumed with thoughts of his whereabouts, what he would be doing, who is he with, why want he answer his phone, ect ect. YET, i can't get him off my mind& heart?? It is crazy insane I know it is, but I want him. Every since he left, I have been consumed with thought so him, night and day. Broken sleep, little appetite, staying at home, just consumed with him.
My therapist has told me NO CONTACT, and i have not made any. There is a 50% chance he want come back, or ever call me again. If he doesn't, someday I think I will be able to have a functional life. I will never forget him, and I will forever be looking over my shoulder for him, but I will not allow myself to contact him. I think if I call him, he will know he has all the power, and he will truly think he can have his cake and eat it too.
For now, I am just in the waiting to see what he is going to do stage. I promised myself& my therapist I would not call him, and I plan to stick by my promise. It is really really difficult to go on without him. I hate it when my friend tells me he has "put me on the shelf" for now. I hate that I allow anyone to "put me on the shelf."
Before him, I would never allow anyone to put me any place. I wish I knew what it is about him that makes me crazy. Like I said in my last response, him not contacting me is my saving grace. perhaps it will forever be that way. but, i sure do miss him like crazy.
Sweetgrass
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Dear Sweetgrass/Confused--
"Forever" is a hypnotic word (you used it three times, hon--but it's the enmeshed part of you saying it, not the whole and healing part).
I think it will help you whenever you catch yourself thinking "forever" about this yearning, if you say firmly to yourself:
This pain is NOT forever. I feel it now but I can trust what others say that it will become less painful. It will get less painful a little bit every day, and a year from now I will look back and not even feel hurt any more.
I know this is true. So I am going to distract myself from the obsessive thoughts right now by doing _______.
You think? Hope it helps.
hugs
Hops
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Welcome, Redginger,
I was just going to ask if you'd start a thread to talk to us (about that loss, or about anything you like).
I am so terribly sorry you have experienced such a shattering loss. I can't imagine how you breathe. Words truly are inadequate to say how sorry I am.
I hope you have found meaning in continuing without your daughter, and I know you will have strength to share.
Thank you for posting. I'll look forward to hearing more from you.
Hopalong
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I am so thankful that there is this place for us all. In my deepest pain you were there for me and I swear I would not have made it through the agony of my partner leaving me.
My yearning and longing for him was so powerful that I thought that it had to be what I must do. It took everything I had in me plus support from you to help me cross that abyss and not contact him. I learned what was underlying many of the forces at work in my relationship and even faced my own responsibility in it all. I made a choice. No matter what I felt even if it felt like the flames of hell I was not going back.
Months later I am starting to really recover. Each day I feel so much better than the day before. For a long time all I did was run on faith. There certainly was no hope. Today was the first day that I was relieved that X was gone. I am beginning to see how lost I was. I wasn't even barely there. THis is only in looking back.
I have a friend who is gifted with honesty. Two months ago she said that I seemed completely defeated. I was. Today I am looking forward to creating my life and curious about what will happen. I find I am meeting nice people. Everything is shifting. How can I tell someone to surrender to oblivion and go through feelings that are so close to being unbearable? You are so right redginger. Run as fast as you can, or crawl or hide but get away. This is a great place. This is refuge for the hunted, beaten, shamed, and nearly destroyed.
My heart is so full of love for you all.
Sea storm
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Dear Confused 2
Try to put in to words-- what you are yearning for. Is it unconditional love, wanting to curl up and be taken care of, wanting to feel validated? There is something inside you- that when it heals-- you will not need this man. Love Ami
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Dear Seastorm,
That is extraordinary.
And so wonderful to read.
Joy for you.
((((Sea))))
Hops
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Sweetgrass,
You wrote: "I wish I knew what it is about him that makes me crazy. Like I said in my last response, him not contacting me is my saving grace. perhaps it will forever be that way. but, i sure do miss him like crazy."
N's are very skilled at making people feel this way. They are crafted 'splitters'. Which means they see things in black and white. Even people. When you are 'white', you are put on a pedestal. You would be treated like a queen, the most beautiful, sexy, wanted person in the world. I can see that you must have been treated this way by your N at times.
BUT watchout because as soon as you are on the other side - you are tossed aside or 'put on the shelf' like you said. And you have experienced that, too. This is classic N.
This won't change about him. I think you already sense this inside.
Dandylife
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We hate the sin not the sinner! Oh yeah he was a sinner-at least 25 affairs during our marriage.
I don't flatter anyone with the word "affair" when referring to what my N does with women. I think of him as a charming charismatic sexual predator.
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Thank all of you for your responses. All of you are special,caring, and loving individuals. All of you have been thru so much with your Ns.When I go back and read some of the old post, it is just amazing that you are still able to live with your Ns. They have been so terrible to some of you, and I am so sorry for your pain.
I know that your post to me are warnings for me. You are trying to prevent me from ending up at the bottom of the pit, and I say Thanks to all of you for your helpful comments, and sharing your life situations with me.
I realize that I am at a bad place in my life. I have never experienced any of these emotions, or desires for a man until I met my xN. I don't understand what he has turned me into, or how he did it. My only crime is that I just wanted to love him and make him happy. When we met, I was sure God had answered my prayers. From the day i met him, I have only just wanted to have a normal, happy life with him.
For the life of me I don't know what happened, or when things started to go crazy. all I know is one day the script just flipped! instead of being his Queen, I seem to have become his problem? instead of respect, i could never measure up to what he wanted. Nothing I did anymore was good enough for him. I started to see him less, he would not rec'v my phone calls, his visits to me were short, it was one game after another. His rages, everthing that came out of his mouth was negative. All of the games were getting inside my head. He would push me away, then pull me back to him. Love me/hate me. The more horrible things he did to me, the more it seems I wanted him. Isn't that sick?
I am obsessed with him. Yes, I do feel as if he is my drug. The addiction is hard, and it is bad. Some days it is as if you are going to lose your mind. No sleep, no food, can't concentrate, you can't read, be around other people, your entire life is upside down.
I want to talk to him, see him, touch him so bad, but I will not iniate contact with him. He knows me well enough to know I will not call him, when I have made up my mind. knowing that I may never hear from him, or see him again makes me sick to my stomach. I do know that calling him would only give him that much more control of me.
I have read e-mails from some of you that you have gone 4, 5,6 months, and NC. I salute you, and hope I can emerge as you, and be what I once was, strong, self-assured, and full of confidence.
have a life again filled with joy, friends, and family. Being able to start a day without the N being my first thought. I so much want to be well mentally and emotionally. alive, and happy. I am not sure that I can stay away from him if he calls??
I feel sure some days that he will callme. I am the one that pulled out of the relationship, not him. Had I not confronted him about the other woman, we would still be together. Because he did not control that one incident, is why I think he will call. You know they have to have the last word.
I can honestly say, the Post that Redginger made has really made me think. I think I understand how for one moment they can make you so crazy. Then having the thought of not being with them forever is more craziness.
Help me to stay strong. A part of me does not want to get back into his web. I just don't know how to stay out of it.
Sweetgrass
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Hi Sweetgrass,
You can contact the phone company and find out how to BLOCK a particular telephone number or numbers. It's different from screening, I believe. It literally prevents the call from ringing through. I think that would help you a lot.
hugs
Hops
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Hi Sweetgrass,
You can contact the phone company and find out how to BLOCK a particular telephone number or numbers. It's different from screening, I believe. It literally prevents the call from ringing through. I think that would help you a lot.
hugs
Hops
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Bump for sweetgrass
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Redginger,
I pray for you in your pain. Thank you for trying to help Sweetgrass. Your words are straight from the pit of hell and ring with power and truth.
I can understand how your daughter felt and so can you. Your empathy and love for her are so clear. The fact that she could share this nightmare with you says something very good about your relationship. I think that Tony should go to jail for what he did but there is no jail time for these crimes. I wish you did not have to pay for his pathology.
Having the ego strength to get away for someone that manipulative and cruel is impossible for many. Maybe they have to go back a few times. I did and no one could have stopped me. This time I escaped because he found a rich girlfriend in another city. Now I see that I am lucky. Who wants a pahological lia?
Keep writing Redginger and Sweetgrass. There is healing in your stories for you and for me.
Much love,
Sea storm
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Redginger,
I pray for you in your pain. Thank you for trying to help Sweetgrass. Your words are straight from the pit of hell and ring with power and truth.
I can understand how your daughter felt and so can you. Your empathy and love for her are so clear. The fact that she could share this nightmare with you says something very good about your relationship. I think that Tony should go to jail for what he did but there is no jail time for these crimes. I wish you did not have to pay for his pathology.
Having the ego strength to get away for someone that manipulative and cruel is impossible for many. Maybe they have to go back a few times. I did and no one could have stopped me. This time I escaped because he found a rich girlfriend in another city. Now I see that I am lucky. Who wants a pahological lia?
Keep writing Redginger and Sweetgrass. There is healing in your stories for you and for me.
Much love,
Sea storm
Sea Storm, I am very, very happy that you got out of that relationship. .
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DEar Red,
REading your posts just tore at my heart. I can see your love for her so clearly. Words mean so little when you are struggling with the grief you are experiencing. Take your time doing what you do. All of this grieving is you honouring your beautiful girl. I lost a daughter, due to illness, so I have some understanding of your loss. To have someone so precious torn from your life is beyond pain.
I want to scream at the injustice of it all. That people like her X walk away scott free to spread their poison elsewhere enrages me.
The only thing I know is that your lovely girl is not suffering now. She is peaceful and safe.
With my deepest sympathy,
axa
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Dear Confused 2,
I just want to say that I am at the beginning of the journey out of the deep, dark pain of an N mother and silent father. I have had "addictions" to people like you describe.. It is a giving away of your guts and soul to another person
I think that it must be a childhood pattern. When did you feel this yearning and emptiness in childhood? Who are you trying to "get back"./ Is it a mother or father?Maybe it is your own self love?
I can tell you that it really is better to own yourself than to have another person validate you. It is better to go forward IN TO all the pain than run away from it in to an addiction.
I hear your pain. It must be "God's grace that he does not call. Maybe,God is blocking him from calling you
I can promise you ,from the 'little " growth i have had-- it is worth it to find your own core and your own value rather than have a man "give it to you" Trust me..
You can see the pain that I am going through. However, I am getting more and more self worth. THIS will keep you safe from abusive men. I admire that you are willing to accept "truth". You will get over this as long as you keep seeking the truth. You shall know the truth and the truth will make you free-- God Promises this Love Ami
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DEar Red,
REading your posts just tore at my heart. I can see your love for her so clearly. Words mean so little when you are struggling with the grief you are experiencing. Take your time doing what you do. All of this grieving is you honouring your beautiful girl. I lost a daughter, due to illness, so I have some understanding of your loss. To have someone so precious torn from your life is beyond pain.
I want to scream at the injustice of it all. That people like her X walk away scott free to spread their poison elsewhere enrages me.
The only thing I know is that your lovely girl is not suffering now. She is peaceful and safe.
With my deepest sympathy,
axa
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OK – I have been triggered - a lot of anger in the following (may want to skip):
Red –
That [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] insult to bottom feeders.
His heart (if he has one) needs to be ripped out of his chest with a fork through his nose, and I won’t even mention what needs to be done to other areas of his body other than to make it physically impossible for him to father any children –in the most painful way imaginable.
Every last speck of these n’s need to excised from our psyche with surgical precision like the malignant tumors they are, thrown in a toxic waste bin, and burned.
Sweetgrass -
Please, please don’t look back. Look forward, fill the hole left behind with something that is truly positive and beautiful. Cut him out without looking back.
I am the daughter of a man like your bf. Trust me – you don’t ever want to do that to a child.
Is there anything that you love to do – let it consume you for a while, until he is but a vague memory (as he deserves to be).
Anytime he enters your head – immediately remind yourself – he is poison and no longer allowed in my mind. Then deliberately think of something different. Reach way down deep, pull on that strength, and excise him out of your mind.
Red – I am sorry is so inadequate, but all I have to express the horror and grief I feel for what you and Gianna have been through. I am so very, very sorry. Gianna is at peace, in a most beautiful and loving place, and I pray that is some small consolation that helps to carry you through these dark days.
(((((Red))))
((((Sweatgrass))))
Peace
(I am apologizing in advance if this offended anyone - I am just so very tired of the pain and destruction they cause and get away with.)
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She was really magical, wasn't she Red.
I think she sounds like somebody so very gentle.
Life and rejection sometimes just overwhelm people with that kind of spirit.
It's true in nature too...some gentle animals have a shorter life. But they
still animate the earth.
She was very lucky in her parents. You appreciated her, you loved her.
You delighted in her and cared for her. Best of all, she clearly knew it.
You will miss her always. But you will create new meaning and purpose
from it.
The last few pages don't erase the book of her life, no matter what.
You're left stuck with the pain of grieving and then the work of healing.
You will do it.
Hops
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Dear Red –
:cry:
The light of your daughter’s gentle soul shines through her being. May that light be your gentle guide through the dark times.
Thank you for sharing her and her story. She is beautiful.
Peace
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Red, you are doing great. one step at a time. don't allow your N daughter to push your buttons. You know how good they are at doing that. my experience with my xN has been, if they can't get positive attention, they will settle for negative attention. he has always shown me that when my plate was full, and i would be busy with"things," that would be the time he would start up with something to get my attention, push my buttons. make me focus on him.
Your daughter knows you are grieving, and sad, she just wants any kind of attention she can get from you. i would do as you are doing, be kind to her, loving to her, but not allow her to give you more heartaches right now. if that means keeping her at arms length, so be it. give yourself time to grieve Gianna.
i wish there was something i could say or do to make things better for you, Redginger. please know that i am so sorry about Gianna. I can tell from your writings of her, she was one of the joys of your life. I can't say that I know how you feel, because I have never loss a child to suicide,but I do think this is a time of living hell for you. I don't think anyone could blame you for feeling the way you do concerning your N daughter right now.
Your post today asking me not to look back for my xbf was very powerful. When you told me I sound like Gianna shook me a bit. I don't know what Gianna went thru when she went to Fla, and saw her Xbf, or what she felt while she was in the relationship with him, but i think i know a little bit about the helplessness that she felt. My xbf has certainly made sure that feeling be with me.
We that love the Ns, are always trying to get them to understand how much we love them, and we always try to be good enough for them. constantly trying to make things right. when one thing is fixed for a day, something else breaks and it starts all over again. forever trying to get them to say "l love you." "I want you." "I'm sorry." we try so hard, yet they still walk away, or they never truly understand us. the thought of not spending a lifetime with them is to hard to face. for them to show that they don't want us is such pain, knowing there is another woman in there life is like living in hell. always wondering why can't he just want me? why am i not good enough?
I am fighting, Red. I really am... but in my head, I see him, and hear him. How do I get him out of my head?? Somebody please tell me how to get him out of my head??
You are in my prayers,
Sweetgrass
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Dear Confused 2,
I think that you need to make a decision to get him out of your head. When I used to have to watch my weight(now I am too thin), I "knew" when I was serious. When I was serious, I did not "romance" the sweets. I was not even really attracted to them.
Being thin had more "power" that the joy of eating the sweets. I focused on how I would look in a bathing suit or how nice it would be to get new clothes,or how good I would feel about myself. The joys of giving up the cake outweighed the 'joys" of eating it.
I see it the same way with you. You could focus on how good it will feel to value yourself, to love yourself enough to be strong, how happy you will feel when you take back your own power.how happy you will feel to set boundaries.etc. These might seem 'abstract" but it really does feel wonderful to start to get self love
Another thing that I do with my mother is to think of something she did that really shows how she was trying to destroy me. When I want to call her, I think of the last interaction when she blamed me for being a victim. Meanwhile, she was abusing me. I think about this and I don't call. I have the fantasies of a loving mother,but the truth is I have a mother who wants to make me insane.
So ,i would do both these things. The important thing is really "wanting to'
In the meantime, you are lucky that he does not call. Maybe,it is Divine intervention Love Ami
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Dear Confused,
How much of yourself are you willing to give to this guy? His cruelty will only get worse. That is how it goes. We are the survivors who know this in our bones.
First you will lose your pride and it seems that you have surrendered this. Next you begin to lose limbs. Finally, there is nothing left. You are on ground that is not firm, it is quicksand. You can't build a relationship on quicksand.
The decision you make to go back or not is not one that should be made emotionally even though all the songs say that. This is a decision that the adult part of you makes. No contact. And then you have a chance.
No contack and then you can start to rebuild slowly. You ride out the feelings and it is the hardest thing you have ever done. But then you don't go farther down into dangerous psychological territory. By now I bet you think that you would die for this guy, and he is the great love .
This is a very young part of you.Probably about four years old. This is time for the adult part of you to take care of that little girl in you. Ask HER if she wants you to go back to your X.
She will beg you to stay away.
Love yourself, Confused.
Sea storm
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Oh Red,
I can feel your anger. Your daughter may well be an N (I do agree with Write – that I would be hesitant to set this in stone based on a second hand diagnosis – but she definitely seems to have N’tendencies from what you have written).
The fact that she is denying this “defiantly” suggests to me that there may be more to what she is feeling than she lets on. To admit to herself that her inaction resulted in the death of her sister may be too devastating for her to bear – and therefore, she doesn’t. Instead, her pain manifests in striking out at you.
While I understand that your daughter may be reacting out of pain, IMO, that does not give her the right to slap you down when you are in excruciating pain, especially given that she is 38 years old. (If she were a lot younger, I would have a different opinion.)
In all honesty, I have no idea what I would do if I were in your situation. The only thing I can think of is that you need time and space for you (without added stressors). It seems to me, that right now, in this time and place, you need to take care of you. And that is OK, and what is right. Let your daughter bide for a time, don’t try to fix or focus on the N problem right now. It is too much.
Sweetgrass - I equate these men to arsenic disguised as the most delicious elixir imaginable. Every time you take a sip, it may taste delicious, but it is poison. I wish that I could wave a wand and erase him from you, but I can't, you have to do this for you. I think the blocking of his number was a great suggestion - set up some road blocks now, so that if he attempts to get through, you have some protection in place. Then be kind to yourself, and take each day as it comes.
Peace
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Hi Red,
I have to be brief...sick, and have obligations in the a.m. So this is all crunched up and condensed, but offered with love:
--don't don't say anything about that conversation with Gianna to your daughter. It is already lodged in her memories and may be the hardest thing her psyche's ever had to bear. If you blame her, she will become worse.
--send her some loving message that you can feel honest about. For now, leave out every scrap of anger and blame. And tell her in it that you HAVE to be peaceful because every day is taking all your strength. Tell her you want no more blaming. Neither to give it nor take it.
--let go of the N term--think it through a year from now. As much as we talk about it here, I truly believe for you right now, with your daughter, it will harm you to glue the label to her. She may be "acting selfish" because of her own grief and shock. And guilt. Perhaps they are coming out in a distored way because she doesn't have the gift to express them.
sleep well,
Hops
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Hi Sweetgrass,
I believe this is the answer. Get him out of your head by stuffing your head with other things that matter more.
Now is the time to go help people who are in worse pain than you, have greater losses than you. Children, the poor, the homeless, doesn't matter. Just go volunteer until you are too tired to obsess. Go clean up a stream, do something for our burning earth.
You'll get through it if you force your attention outward. You really will.
Hops
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Axa,
I was just wondering if you have received your answer to this post?
It seems not too many actually have returned to N's.
I feel pretty isolated, being one of the few.
You said you were interested because your xn's xwife went back to him? And you wanted to understand why?
I think that the why's come down to a few standard reasons.
#1 Children (have children together, think it's the best to have the parents together)
#2 Financial (have business together, or for some reason it is financial BEST)
#3 The N has actually markedly improved
#4 The person is deluded, fooled and will once again be hurt
I think as long as the person has immensely strong boundaries, has had counseling and is not in fear of physical danger, they may be strong enough to deal with an N. Truly, and in reality, an N is only an Monster in our minds. Our reaction to their behavior is the real determining factor of the consequences of N-ism.
I will probably get a load of people objecting to this idea. But, really, unless the N is a psycopath - their "power" is like a mist. Once you clear it away, there is really nothing there.
We need to take our power back. I wish there was a way to broadcast this to the world.
Dandylife
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Hi Red,
I have to be brief...sick, and have obligations in the a.m. So this is all crunched up and condensed, but offered with love:
--don't don't say anything about that conversation with Gianna to your daughter. It is already lodged in her memories and may be the hardest thing her psyche's ever had to bear. If you blame her, she will become worse.
--send her some loving message that you can feel honest about. For now, leave out every scrap of anger and blame. And tell her in it that you HAVE to be peaceful because every day is taking all your strength. Tell her you want no more blaming. Neither to give it nor take it.
--let go of the N term--think it through a year from now. As much as we talk about it here, I truly believe for you right now, with your daughter, it will harm you to glue the label to her. She may be "acting selfish" because of her own grief and shock. And guilt. Perhaps they are coming out in a distored way because she doesn't have the gift to express them.
sleep well,
Hops
Hops, sorry your sick, hope you feel better soon.
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I'm so sorry Red.
Very clumsy and inaccurate.
Of course you know how to spot it!
Too painful for me...tell more later, but it's close to home.
hugs
Hops
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CB, you're a drink of water, you know that?
love to you, and oh (((((((((((((((((Red)))))))))))))))))))))) you too dear!
Hops
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Axa,
I went back to my N several times. I could not resist and part of that was no support, no money, single mom, and no infomation about N. I thought it was my fault and could be made to think that very easily. Guilt is something I can't stand. So all he had to do was put the blame on me.
Maybe people didn't fess up but most women go back and go back and go back and go back. Statistics tell us that.
Have compassion for yourself and you vulnerablilty and forgive yourself dea Axa.
Love,
Sea storm
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Dandy,
I think no matter how stong ones boundaries are living with someone who consistantly twists reality gets to one eventually. XN's xwife had a serious breakdown and from my experience of her she never recovered. I think she is desperate, which he knows and so will have little regard for her because of this. Well in fact he has no regard for anyone so she is just tossed into the barrell. I guess for her in her imagination it must be better than being alone. Having witnessed how she abused her daughter emotionally I wonder also about her Nness. Thankfully I know I would not go back. The fact that I did not have kids with him i am most grateful for.
The irony is that Xwife came back when the youngest child was 18 and off to college this year........ weird or what!
Maybe you Nh is not as crazy as XN and so having boundaries works to a degree. I know that when I set boundaries I had to be hypervigalent to ensure they were not broken. Also the ridicule I experienced because of the boundaries was so wearing.
Seastorm,
I think there is an element of brain washing going on also. Like I thought I could not manage without him, part of that was because my confidence was so eroded from the madness, struggled with contact with friends and family because they could not bear to be around him, there are so many factors. I think there is a plan from the start to disempower their victims. I believe that the initial charisma is like a drug to the victims.......... being with them is like being so alive it is difficult to not to be seduced by it. This is the bit I kept hoping would return but of course there was no need once I was hooked. I know now that I have seen him wild horses would not drag me back to him WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
axa
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I think that the "initial" charisma " reacts" with our unhealed inner child. I think that it "tells" our inner child everything that we always wanted to hear. I think that it says that we are safe,now. It says that we are lovable, worthwhile and special.
The problem is when it ,later, BECOMES the abusive parent again. Then, we are in trouble.
This makes sense to me, anyway Love Ami
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Axa, you
MADE IT!
I know now that I have seen him wild horses would not drag me back to him
:D :D :D
Oh good for you!
love,
Hops