Author Topic: Mindfulness and codependence thread  (Read 141967 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #975 on: June 19, 2023, 10:47:57 AM »
For my novel, which has a timeline in the 60s, I use a mix of physical folders and mostly online (Google Drive, which I've gotten pretty comfortable with).

I can barely organize a grocery list or piece of mail IRL, but seem to not have trouble sorting writing stuff. When I am doing it, which is the big issue.

I recommend Googling searches such as:
how to organize memoir research

Loads of answers there...and rabbit holes!  Have fun.

(I'm a BIG fan of sub-folders. I have a folder for each chapter and others for locations, scenes, notes for future scenes, etc. Just title them in ways that make sense to you.)

hugs
Hops
« Last Edit: June 19, 2023, 11:03:21 AM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #976 on: June 19, 2023, 06:22:31 PM »
Thanks, Hops.  Very helpful and I'll try to "hop" over some of the wabbit holes; )

Lighter

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #977 on: July 14, 2023, 02:00:16 PM »
Lots going on this week.... the post op friend, who died on the table with a heart attack and by pass surgery, is moving at the end of the month and wants to keep everything..... but shouldn't.  I will let him, if that's his choice.  It's good to hear him laugh again.  It's been a while. My trying to wrestle his marked up, kicked around 25 year old VERY HEAVY bed away from him, where he convolesced and ended 4 very toxic relationships is something I intend to avoid.... if he doesn't feel he's gotten his monie's worth yet.... that's his to feel. Not my circus,not my clowns.

Another friend just broke off an engagement wth her fiance.  Saturday 3 Amazon friends will go to her ex's home and attempt to pack up her long list of belongings. I don't feel good about that. It's more likely all those items will be on fire in the yard and I just want to say...... that's the cost of learning those hard lessons.  If she gets nothing back, including the engagement ring, she still wins bc she avoided marrying this toxic person.  It will have to be enough.  I see that so clearly now.

My girls are strugglign with college choices and growing up just seems to be more difficult than it was in my day.  I'm practicing boundaries and mostly winning there.  It's not easy.

There's a confusing situation inTX I'm trying to put to bed.  I just spoke with an attorney who explained TX is known as a  "debt beater's State" bc the laws are written to make collection of court judgments virtually impossible.  To say I'm not surprised is an understatement. 

Whatever happens Saturday, with the personal property exchange, we're having an Amazon bonfire and you guys are invited. I'm guessing start time will be 4pm.  Bring something to grill and come as you wish to be remembered; )

Lighter

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #978 on: July 17, 2023, 10:30:42 AM »
Saturday's exchange of property went about the way one would expect, if one party is unhinged. 

We were denied access to the stuff.  The cops came and spoke to our friend and then the ex...... in all honesty, the ex demanding we find professional and licensed movers to load the truck was a blessing and that happened. 

SO much stuff and the guys loaded it with efficiency at a very good price with short notice.  There wasn't a spare inch in that box truck and some of the big boxes were full of books.  It was 96 degrees and two of us are over 60.... one was over 70.  Unloading in cooler temps, with rain spitting, made things go easier, but it wasn't ideal. 

Everyone stayed safe and I hope I'm as strong and capable when I'm 70+ yo... she hopped herself UP into that hot airless truck and would have done ANY part of the job.... I mean.... true Amazon warrior, there.  Very much CALL THE MIDWIFE vibes on the day.  Settled for grilling under an umbrella, bc it was pouring rain by the time we finished.  We'll have the bonfire soon.

The friend with the upcoming estate sale has his sense of humor back and has accepted the heavy, large things need to go, whoo hoo!

My things are moving along.  Lots of tadpoles and eggs on the porch.  I have new references for electricians and plumbers who like to fish and vacation, so those phone calls are happening today,

70yo friend is writing a book and will look at the lake as sanctuary to to do that while we're waiting on uppstairs to get finished. If we get the place ready by fall, she'll have her yearly group retreat  there.... if not too large.  She wants to go to the island to celebrate finalizing the book.  It would be nice if that works out.

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lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #979 on: July 18, 2023, 02:30:29 PM »
Pug enjoying the baby Dutch rabbit puppet...... as a toy....and we we puppet it like it's real.... something magical about pug's desire to tear it limb from limb and it's ability to remain in tact, so far.  Much sturdier than her normal toys.

Youngest DD20 brought home the French chef......lead singer in a band..... ex combat marine..... ex casino security who knows 6 martial arts and how to use a karambit and has some wood/metal/basic constructions skills..... I'm quite "chuffed", as Tupp says.

Honestly, the vision of the chef Horst from Ratatouille pops up.....
"I keeled a man wis zees thumb."

I just heard him cough like my little cousin used to cough....sounds croupy.....
and that breaks my heart, bc he has heart problems requiring surgery..... I think from an explosion that sent him home from active duty in Afghanistan.  He jokes he's dying... has a great sense of humor..... but I wonder if he's telling the truth.  I see he wears a heart monitor all the time.  Will ask him about that after we compare Karambits.

My sister arrives tomorrow so I'm busy in the house.... SO humid and hot out.  Frogs keep leaving eggs and the tadpoles keep growing on the porch.  I'm washing all the quilts on benches...... filling vases with fresh flowers and greenery...... tidying front porch too. I can hear hawks hunting in the yard, so pug can't go out on her own. She'd be a tender tasty morsel and a neighbor one street over posted a hawk with a muskrat sat down in her cement birdbath....too heavy to carry off, but the hawk is making a meal of it, just the same.

The part didn't arrive for the island water main repair, and "caretaker" suspects water will be out a month.  August guests have been warned about the problem and I'm trying to not think about it.  Can't change it by worrying and the freighter arrives when it arrives. 

I plan to zip to the lake, take some pics for the electrician, fill up truck with stuff for estate sale this weekend and edit kitchen stuff.  I really love my Grandparents knives and pans, etc....will be trading out and curating...... editing heavily..... but it's hard for me.

And I'm breathing easily these days..... it's easier.  New brain pathways present and I choose them most of the time or notice when I don't..... very grateful to T!

Lighter











lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #980 on: July 19, 2023, 02:00:20 PM »
Had a really good time with the new boy and it turns out he Flamenco dances AND has bartended with his Chef Horst's thumb, as well.

It's overcast, thank goodness.

Sister arriving today.  SO much to get done! 

Lighter

sKePTiKal

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #981 on: July 20, 2023, 06:49:32 AM »
AH.........  flamenco!
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #982 on: July 23, 2023, 07:51:32 AM »
Last night was the Malanga ? Tango event youngest DD and her wonderful chum attended.  Her chum absolutely adores the classes and says they altered her life for the better.  I think she gets up at 6am to practice every morning then goes to work at 10..... it's lovely to see joy in her eyes.  DD is happy but with Tango, but her life hasn't been altered by it.

Both girls have agreed they'll continue to go out together, sans dates, and keep their lives uncluttered in certain spaces.... which is really smart, IME.  DD's chef would be very posessive if she puts a foot wrong and allows it. 

I would have dropped into the Tango room, but was exhausted by my friend's Estate Sale, which left me really really sore and it wasn't till I woke up I understood why...... I was surrounded by people and that's an extrovert's nightmare..... there were stairs I went up and down and up and down for 5 hours..... I helped carry and fetch things and I mean I carried up them down a grassy slope, hot cooken hot hot street and steep driveway, as did my sister and friend..... as it's said in my family.... our tits were tired.  We're feeling much better after a good rest and readying to go into Estate Sale battle a final morning....... we sold SO MUCH STUFF...... and cleared space for an entire nuther garage full of stuff the friend went through last night.  He's feeling lighter and less anxious about letting things from former lives go.

So is his dd, who at one point cornered me in her bedroom and said, though clenched teeth.... "This is not what I bargained for and is the biggest mistake of my life and I will never forgive you or your sister for this."  Just after that, a lady with a teacup chee wow wah let her hold that little cow spotted dog and all was forgiven BUT when she went to fist bump my sister in celebration, sister recoiled thinking she was about to be punched...... it was cuter than one might imagine, but I guess that's the way these large life events go.

At the end of the day, friend and his DD were laughing and enjoying all the things carried off by joyful new owners....like they were "being paid for people to carry away things for them".......  friend started giving things away..... there was a bit of dancing and looking forward to refilling the tables and shelves with other things, thought the 8 foot carved wood Indian was put back in the DNS pile..... I had him sold for 1,200.00 if they could just do the MONKEY LET GO, long enough. Maybe today.

And that's the way of things, isn't it?  I'm left to contemplate how much simpler my life would be if I wasn't urging friend and dd to give up old things no longer serving them..... which reminds me of urging my father not to have the brain surgery.  I KNOW I should keep my yap shut and release the outcome, but it's hard.... so so hard, Hops, to do that.  Co dependence is a sliding scale and I'm noticing it more often before choosing, one way or the other.  The friend's DD and I had a minute chat about it when she was in fight or flight..... she worries about every little thing and how here father might respond to one of the 2 millions things in the house leaving without his permission.... it robs her of joy and creates SO MUCH DISTRESS for her.  She said it's "compassion" and I said it is IF one remains level and outside fight or flight, able to respond and be responsive.  Once fight or flight sets in.... it's co dependence IF it's the rule.  She didn't agree and i didn't need her to.  We're getting along very well and I'm trying to break the habit of NEEEDING young people to understand lessons, like I might not be here tomorrow.  So many habits to notice, consider, keep or change, yup yup yup.

As for me, boundaries and my attempt to release co dependent behaviors.... my last day helping friend with this move IS TODAY and then he'll deal with what's left with the moving company..... it won't hurt him physically, but he might have to rent another 200.00 a month storage unit and it won't be on the very cool first floor.  It will be on the second floor where AC doesn't relieve the heat and he'll be figuring out how to stack and arrange it all for himself.  Whew.... releasing that outcome feels  UH MAY ZING!

In the meantime, I'm feeling better and up to the day....... we put out bright pink neon signs.... large ones and advertised in 2 places... I updated everythng last night with new pics and the neighbors know to fend drivers off their grass proactively....... this too shall pass.

Then we'll be off to the Lake to get stuff done.  Not sure where the electrician is..... trying to meet him there this weekend.  I think I'm pulling the trigger on the Cottage sale this weekend....... getting paperwork started....... and the truth is...... I'm entering my own MONKEY LET GO phase

Lighter



Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #983 on: July 23, 2023, 01:46:00 PM »
I hear ya, Lighter. I think it's a real problem with real triggers and have gone down that emotional rabbit hole a bunch of times in my life. Franticness over Gennulman's crises before his death, attempts to rescue or alert others to someone else's desperation. Not so much any more, but if it hadn't caused bad levels of stress in my own life that were affecting my health...

I read here or in some article recently: "Help is the sunny side of control." That hit me in the head like a wet fish. It rang so true. I didn't take it to mean "don't help people." But I did recognize that I was trying to control outcomes for others in ways I didn't have the strength or resources to do. I couldn't handle the cruelty or misguidedness of whatever was happening to them. (I even beat myself up for a long time over the wee pregnant, pissing foster pooch, who as far as I heard is being doted on and living a wonderful life elsewhere.)

I think it came from overwhelmingly identifying with and being triggered by others' pain or particularly abandonments. Were I in better control of my innards, perhaps I could have enough detachment to do many things that I don't as of now feel strong enough to take on. Or maybe I've grown selfish. When I was younger I couldn't rescue myself, so maybe it's an unconscious desire to heal my own wounds by protecting or rescuing others. We all know someone who is vulnerable or making poor decisions, etc. Compassionate detachment is the ideal, and I suck at it.

What I hear most when you write about your own rescues or involvements or enmeshments with others' personal situations, from contractors' health to neighbors' unawareness to ... fill in the blank ... is anxiety and intensity. Sometimes very elevated, as though you are unable to detach while helping, or take on a sense of responsibility that might go beyond healthy boundaries. I'm not judging it, I promise, having done SO much of that myself. Even here sometimes.

Part of it, for me, is wanting to matter to somebody, since I have no family. Part of it is being a loving kind person who yearns to relieve suffering. Part of it is loneliness. Who cares about an anxious older woman figuring out how to cope and how to let go, on her own? I stick my nose out and narrate my head off. At times it feels good and right and like healthy connection. Sometimes it doesn't.

Anyway, rambling. I think the key when one struggles with CoD is anxiety. That's where to work, rather than solving new not-our-problem stuff, unless asked for help. And when one is asked for advice or help...to go carefully within boundaries. Maybe since you see CoD as an issue for yourself, you could ask yourself: In this situation, what are the large-scale solutions I can picture for this person's problem? Now, can I experiment with offering them half of what I could visualize? No more?

Dunno if that's helpful. I just understand CoD feelings that can become grooved in, and how they are harmful. Hang in there, you'll find your balance because you're very conscious of what's happening. Bravo.

hugs
Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #984 on: July 24, 2023, 07:50:29 AM »
I'm still catching up from the weekend, ((Hops)) but wanted to let you know I will respond thoughtfully to your post.  It made so much sense.... and I see Little Hops and grown Hops trying to balance what was with what is.

Acceptance.

Releasing outcome.

Yes.

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #985 on: July 24, 2023, 04:36:46 PM »
Thanks, Lighter.
Sorry I talked so much about my own CoD issues, but I thunk about it and decided that rather than analyse your sitch you're presently in, it'd be better just to tell a story from my own life. In case that is relatable. "Helpful" could be a stretch!

Still managed to pontificate about you some, but didn't want to analyse you to a faretheewell. Kind of waving from a nearby trench is my intention....

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #986 on: August 02, 2023, 11:24:07 PM »
Youngest DD is taking Tango lessons one night a week and tomorrow night we begin Swing lessons together.  Her social calendar is full full full after a pretty long blight.  Her friends are lovely and they hang out here a bit.  Summer classes just ended for her and she's pretty excited to have a break.

This was a very fulfilling, but busy 2 week visit with my sister.  Our brother is fishing in Alaska with his son..... the pics are fantastic.Happy to see them having father/son time..... lots of smiles. 

I like the female Reator in TX a lot.... wish we could do more business but I'm ready to be the heck far far away from TX and it;s fence building, cowboying good'ol boy neighbors and the attorneys it takes to deal with them. 
::blowing raspberry::.






lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #987 on: August 04, 2023, 11:44:55 PM »
Today I noticed an old thought pop up.... it used to be a very familiar thought, one I came nose to nose with for many years....and it was stomach flipping in the beginning.  So close.....like it was in the room with me....or I was inside a little box with it.  So close..... it was happening over and over again.....like it was IN the present and it WAS real, bc my thoughts made it so.  It's interesting the mind actually believes thoughts are real and happening to us without understanding they're in the past.  The brain and body perceive it as happening in the present and biochemical hijacks follow.  Those pathways get stronger, thicker and faster till they're lightening fast and outside one's awareness..... that's where things got really tricky, IME.  When was reactivity outside my awareness.  I didn't think that would happen to me.  I didn't think it could. I thought I was strong enough.... I thought I could keep my children safe enough through anything,but I was wrong and that's an unhinging place to be driven to, IME.

Wrong again. 

The upside..... happy places work the same way as trauma in our brains.  We can go to the happy places and our brains believe we're actually there.... our chemistry adjusts and flows into calm and safety. Amazing, how powerful that is. Amazing it's not taught in every grade at school : /

Today it crossed my mind to scream my 2nd husband's name..... I used to scream it inside my head daily, but this time it felt very far....  very distanced.  It appeared and then it was gone, reminding me how much spaciousness has been achieved. 
What i do know is..... I haven't screamed him name in my head in a very long time.   Sometimes it's there....but it's over there...... always outside my head.  Sort of an echo...... nothing real..... an old synapse firing out of habit..... until it does't fire anymore.

And there's finaly serenity around what others have said, thought, misrepresented about me and who/what I am with regard to my understanding and beliefs about who and what I am, have done an am capable of. 

I know who and what I am..... without confusion or second guessing. 

Reckonings.  And acceptance.  Knowing. 

Not dangerous but a definitive danger to threats and people doing harm..... without doubt or hesitation I know what I'll do and there was a time hesitation ruled me. 

My brain turns off when I've been injured and the will and intention to do trauma, with years of training to DO those very things, steps up.... that's my amygdala and what it does when my frontal lobe is shut down, has almost always done... except that one time when it really mattered.  I just shut down and there was nothing in me to protect myself.  Nothing.  It didn't even cross  my mind, which disgusted and alarmed my Martial Arts instructor, but you don't really know what you'll do.  You don't.  Once he had to be dragged out of a live firefight during a training session by an instructor,bc he froze. There it is again.  Judgement.  Just not helpful, IME. 

  I don't know if responsiveness in survival situations can be trained without being thrown into pits to build agression, as Army Rangers train.  I think it happens in the pits and is worried about outside the pits, IME. That's my two cents on it. 

Those days of worrying are gone.  I hardly recognize them when I think of them, very rarely... they're pretty much absent.   DD20 has asked to do some edged weapons training..... basics and that pleases me very much.  I want her to know and understand and have that inside her skeleton and amygdala, just in case.  I guess I'd feel better if it was installed inside her Nervous System... and I'm not gonna judge it.  I would appreciate it if nobody else judged it on the board either.  Opinions are welcome, but judgment... not so much.

My fears, my worries were..... wrestled away from me.... taken.  Taken by people pointing at me as a threat and eventually they turned me into someone who could do the things, easily, they feared.  Funny how that worked out.  Ironic. 

There's power in understanding what and who one is during a crisis........ what happens to the brain and body..... not be thrown by it.  Heck, in 2009 threat and crisis actually slowed my heart and head, like they say it happens to psychopaths..... and the thought of meeting acts of violence didn't move my biochemical needle..... it actually brought some relief....... "finally."  The thundering heartbeat, tunnel vision and increased respiration was absent, maybe bc my adreanals were shot.  Maybe it was simply the end of waiting for the worst to happen.  I can't know what it was, exactly, but maybe I'll figure that out if the writing gets to that place. 

The book STRONG ON DEFENSE by Strong goes through real life situations of survival and it's not always the people you'd think who do what needs to be done to survive.  It's sometimes the least likely and those who survive are the ones who follow the guy out of a shot up McDonalds through the plate glass window another guy ran through to escape while the shooter reloaded. 

Lord knows we spent years training for lots of situations in martial arts, but for me it was something others had to drive out with a blowtorch (fig.)  Pushed and driven into survival/fight mode..... and it was real and it came in waves, after freeze and fawn...it just kept coming, thank God.  I had zero understanding how it worked..... even as I experienced it and understood getting out of fight or flight was harder and harder till it was just where I lived. Home.  A terrible place to raise little children.... a place I never thought I'd live.  Like getting pulled away from the shore, over and over till I was so far away I didn't know how to get back and..... understanding actually made it worse.  Watching everyone watch it happen, while shrugging and going on about their lives was as upsetting as what the bad actors were doing. There are no zero tolerance policies with interpersonal terror in the home or in the courts.  WTH?

It's...... a very effective and accepted tactic.  Starving out children, traumatizing them, terrorizing parents and leveraging them with their childrens' safety.... is just how things work.  Better to accept it and get on withi strategizing to overcome it....which seems wrong.  It seems like it should be stopped and changed into something else..... consequences, perhaps....shockingly harsh consequences, maybe, for the bad actors.  Yup yup yup.

What;s left is responsiveness, without hesitation, in present moments I know I can count on, bc it's what I am.  Not what I'd do.  Strange to turn and face things, with acceptance, that used to create so much fear.  Part of that's about my children being grown and capable and understanding so much.  Part of it's going through experience and application of knowledge I never wanted to use, but accessed when pushed and shoved. 

Today my DD20 made light of her father being taken out BEFORE he could do real damage to her and her sister... and she thanked me without any judgment.... just as a fact in her life.  An undrestanding based on stories she's read and heard from her peers and in the news.  Where there once was a 7yo asking for a new Daddy... one "like Jack Black, who'd carry her on his shoulderns and not hurt her".... is now a woman who might one day be a protector, herself.

We were discussing her grade, her intelligence and the fact she hand't been crushed by "bad parenting" then she said we were
"unicorns in a unicorn family." 

We got enough in childhood and now she's back in the world, socializing and horrified by her peer's generational traumas........she's grateful and I'm blessed and surprised again to receive another layer of spaciousness and serenity I couldn't see coming.

Lighter












Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #988 on: August 05, 2023, 03:14:46 PM »
((((Lighter)))))
I find it is hard work to find the balance between revisting trauma periodically because it is part of me, and plastering over it so I don't have to sit in the worst feelings. But it's worth work.

Kind of exhausting but I think it can become purposeful and motivational or, without the right support, can become paralysing rumination. Forcing myself out now and then, to interact in meaningful discussions, does help.

I wonder if anybody else experiences that these revisiting periods might actually come in cycles. For me, deep summer and again in mid-winter. Something about both of these times within seasons triggers me to remember, and revisit. I think for me part of it also is a way of looking back at benchmarks, as you are doing, to be curious about what's healed and what's still healing. Memories may still be sad but when I can sense movement, further along a healing timeline, it's okay to revisit for a time.

One thing is that I am a changed person, and no longer believe in complete constancy of character or even personality except for the deepest basics. And that's okay. Just an individual evolution.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #989 on: August 05, 2023, 05:07:05 PM »
Thanks, Hops. I appreciate your sharing experiences here.

I'm.... noticing some feelings wash over me..... I'm the sky today..... the hard feelings, and even my children, really are the clouds and storms.  Apart.  Separate.  Such a relief.

I didn't make that connection, regarding the girls, until today and it felt like my feet went up and my perspective changed..... more distance.

I hope it stays.

The paralyzing rumination ended, thanks be to God..... the right T is, IME, a necessary thing.  I share high points with her,but we're not having sessions.  I feel I'm handling my business and maybe more quickly bc it's just ME facing it, without that support. 

I'm glad you're getting out and connecting with others.  Don't know about cycles, but there are reminders and echos and chances to notice familiar things and how they've morphed or not morphed.

Noticing the extinction of troubling emotions....noticing clear clean sunny spaces where the dark emotions and memories used to live..... is more the rule, lately.

Sometimes reflection is necessary and whatever comes up, comes up. I'ts allowed and welcome and has something to say.
 Sometimes there's nothing to reflect on..... the memories have gone and that's better.

 I feel I'm choosing sunny clean slates and spaces instead of the old familiar pathways, again and again.  It's something I do without having to notice or choose sometimes and it used to feel that wasn't possible. It's different than stepping around the pain, IME.  Covering it over would mean it boomerangs back, harder, and hits me in the teeth (fig.) 

Recently, I wonder why it was so difficult to see all the choices and select serenity, bc at the heart of it.... it's about that simple when and IF one riggles out of Fear, Obligation an Guilt long enough, practice doing it.....
and that's the thing.  How to shift out of Fight or Flight and SEE more... see everything, maybe.. 

I don't think I can see everytihng yet, btw. 

I'm leaning into it tho; )

Lighter