Is there a self-destruct gene?

[jordanspeeps]

Thanks for all the insight folks!  I would like to address all you who replied, I’m still reading and would like to post as I go along. I've just begun longtire's post, now and I'm already so encouraged by it. There is a ton of good stuff here and in my PMs, (thanks, again mudpup!).  Please bear with me, I’m also involved in a big work project this week.  But, please keep the dialouge going, nonetheless.

Thanks for the astrology reminder, Brigid, I consulted my trusty Comprehensive Horoscopes for 2006, (Berkely Books,), and (Sterlling Publishing) here’s some of what the planets have/had in store for me and my fellow Pisceans out there.

“Cool Acquarian intellect encounters fiery Leo emotions.  Mars in stubborn Taurus forms a square to both the Sun and Moon, increasing tension due to your unwillingness to compromise. (FEB 12).  Avoid direct conflict if possible.  Butting heads with individuals who are more butt-headed than you can leave you with a headache.  (I kinda wish I had read this a week ago). Use this lunation to spark creative ideas to replace outmoded routines and habits.  Wild and crazy Uranus conjuncts this New Moon in your 1st House, an aspect that gets your nervous system jumping and your mind racing with original ideas.  You could feel restless now and anxious for change.  You may susprise  people-and yourself with the unexpected things you say and do.  Your desire to be free in every way possible may override you usual sensitivity to others, which could result in a relationship shake-up.  Trickster Mercury is retrograde from March 2-23.  Overlooked details, missed messages and problems with machinery, travel, or equipment are more common at this time and since it’s occuring in your sign, Pisces, the effects may seem more intense.  On the plus side, this is a time to look inward and untie the knots of negative self-judgment that have been holding you back.  For every loss, there’s a gain, so gently let go of the people or beliefs that cause you too much pain.


“Pisces prone to the blues should set targets and keep busy.   Pisces with something to say should get a hearing.  The state of the world might really get under your skin.  Whether its a political, cultural, economic, or religious, there’s likely a bone to pick with somebody.  Be wary of launching an attack on those you live with.  They’re sitting ducks and not responsible for the bigger picture.  Resist the temptation to throw in the towel and run away. Knee-jerk denial and emotional over-reaction won’t get you where you need to go. Someone could try to undermine youi through gossip and untruth. What is most important is getting to the truth of a situation.  All the bluff and bluster betwwen disagreeing parties could just be a case of ego trips and saving face rather than an attempt to find significant differences.  Arguing against stronger forces than yourself, be it an individual or institution is pointless now.  And it doesn’t matter whether you are right or wrong.  Giving in, would be the smart tactic until you can challenge with overwhelming evidence.  Family and household members are best handled with kid gloves.  Show sensitivity to the feeling of all concerned.  Let a generosity of spirit and wisdom predominate over any need for power or control.  You know where you are at.  Let others see that and work things out.  Despite feeling independent, resourceful, and self-sufficient, you just may not be in a position to accomplish everything single-handedly.   Desired goals and outcomes are more likely to happen with able-bodied assistance.  So when it’s offered, enthusiastically welcome it.!!!

With that in mind, thanks, Hopalong and Jacmac , for the spiritual perspective. I took time to ruminate on a lot in your response, Jacmac, and the following:

  Why, even the person you struggle with, the person whom you have the most anger towards is most often a reflection of the inner workings of yourself that you have disconnected with and are trying to bring to the surface so that you can begin to integrate both your negative and positive sides.  At other times this person can be, as Richard said, recreating a particular condition and environment from which you need to learn.  Thus the inevitable pull towards this person, the deep seeeded need to respond, while on the surface you feel that you do not want to.; the desire to remain, even as parts of you tell you to run.  The accelerated heart beat, the rushing of blood through your veins, all indications of a very strong response ( and connection ) to another.  I believe we, as humans reject that, because our egos don't want to believe that we would actually have a connection with someone who is hurting us or whose behavior we find distasteful

feels like truth to me.  Without going into too much, this is probably very much the case.  Thank you for that.

In the past, my faith and spirituality has gotten me through tough times.  I HAVE been a lunatic lately, though.    and am searching far and wide for ways to explain “why me, why now, what’s next.” and to figure out how to deal.  Jacmac, Brigid, and Hopalong, (and MP)  your dialouge sorta brings it back home for me, though.  Man’s extremity is God’s opportunity, they used to tell me in church.  And the description of Karma is beautiful and powerful makes life seem so much more purposeful and meaningful.  And the astrology just rounds out the ecclectic New Age mix just enough to make it, Tiffany Jordanspeeps, the Pisces Christian Yogi !! Thanks, all, I’ll post again, soon.

Tiffany

[jordanspeeps]

Longtire

I completely relate to creating a childhood fantasy.  I imagined I was adopted, despite the fact that I am the spitting image (that creates an image, humm..) of my mother: high cheekbones, large smile, reddish skin undertones.  I would fantasize about my “birth mother”.  I would dream of the day I was to meet “her”. I would anticipate longingly her proud, reactive response to me. I would ask her if she thought I was pretty.  She, unlike my Nmom to whom I asked the very same question, would, instead of saying, “Well, you’re smart and that’ll get you further in life, “ simply reply on Easter morning in my frocks, “Sweetie, you are the prettiest little thing, I’ve ever seen.”  I overachieved in school, (after I got the eye-glasses, and could see the blackboard, of course), because when I met my “birth mother” I wanted her to be so proud of me and what I’d accomplished in my years.  Even today, I love to watch “Adoption Stories” on TLC because I identify with the adopted so much. 

That fantasy held until recently, when I dug up my family history, and it came crashing to the ground with this NPD business.  But, longtire, I relate and identify with your childhood so much. 

  First, I love the little kid in me for doing such an awesome and awe-inspiring job of taking care of me then.  He did things that still amaze me and that honestly were well beyond his years 

Two years ago, I was proud and amazed at what I was able to accomplish as a child, but recently my spirit had begun to break as I mourned and felt sorry for the child in me. When I was 12,  a sick, backwoods, farming family took an interest in me.  Because my parents didn’t give a hoot, in whose company I remained, they allowed this family (18 year-old daugter, 16 year old son, quietly weird mom and deacon dad) to take me home with them after church on Sundays and some days in the summer.  I wouldn’t/couldn’t protest this, and loved the nature and beauty of the countryside, so I looked forward to leaving my boring home.  I read a lot, too, so a lot of the times, my head was buried in a book. (I was reading Tiger Eye  by Judy Blume at the time.  I had no idea, what sadistic plans this isolated family had for me on thier very isolated farm, but it felt to be too late once I was 3 months pregnant after only my second period. I remember those days when I was 12,  the horrific feeling of being alone in this, hours and hours of crying alone while my siblings were in school. 

And when I went into the abortion clinic alone to complete the paperwork and have the procedure, I remember having to take the clipboard with the paperwork which needed signing back out to the car where my parents were parked together, talking.  I didn’t think of it then, but I break up now, thinking, “they had each other to talk to, lean on."  I had no one. Once the decision was made, I managed the entire process without my parents, save the 35 mile ride to the clinic.  They were convinced the farm family was out to get them, because of jealousies within the church.   Mom thought I should have known better than to let them trick me in such a way and to NEVER speak of the incident or to any of the farm family members again, ever.

You don’t know how many times, I ‘ve seen the pure look of shock on the faces of teachers, nurses, principles, and other authority figures during that time.  But, the social worker who held my hand and explained what was happening to me, was clearly shaken by her experience with me.  I used to think these people were angry at me.  I now realize they were angry at my parents... and probably themselves, a little, too.

longtire, this is just what the doctor ordered:

  I did survive a difficult situation.  With God, therapy, reading, self-awareness (sorry mudpup  ) I am learning how to LIVE!  I am no longer willing to just survive.  I give huge credit to the little me that did what he had to do to preserve "us" until the adult me was able to take over and make the reality based changes that truly take care of me

I love that!! Thanks

[Hopalong]

Tiff,
You have taken tragedy and carved out an aware, caring life.
I am awed by you, and horribly sorry for what you suffered.

I do not know what was wrong with your parents but their lack of caring seems evil to me.

But you are good, innocent, and you were then.
What an incredibly strong life force you had in you, all through that torment.

What a powerhouse old lady you're going to be.
You will have such an amazing influence on all the young vulnerable people you meet.
You are a hero and a champion and you've gotten a Gold in the life Olympics.

Can't verbalize how much I respect your sanity and courage.

Hopalong

[longtire]

Tiffany,
I had the same shock reaction reading about the horrible, evil situation you had to grow up under.  I literally had a physical reaction of horror and adrenaline while reading this.  I am so glad that you are here now and are doing what you need to do to take care of yourself.  How awesome that you have made a good life out of something that I don't think I could even have survived.  Hooray for little Tiffany for doing what she needed to survive and for big Tiffany for doing what it takes to truly LIVE!

((((((((((((((((((((((((((Tiffany))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Brigid]

Portia,

It is very interesting: how old were they when adopted? What happens to us when we are very small – or even in the womb - can have a huge impact. Were they adopted from different families?

In this case, the children were only weeks old when adopted.  I agree that how the mother cares for herself during pregnancy can have an affect on the babies overall health, but IMO a stretch to have them turn out sociopathic as a result.  Yes, they were from 2 different families.  I also have an adopted daughter who came to me at 4 1/2 months from a foreign country.  Her baby teeth were rotting out of her head by the time she was 2 1/2 due to the birth mother's lack of nutrition during pregnancy, but otherwise my daughter has been very healthy and she is now nearly 18 years old.

Where do the serial killers come from?  Or worse yet, those who rise to power like Hitler and Hussein and have no regard for human life.  I do believe that a lot can be learned from examining their brains after death and finding out which screw was loose.  I don't think that behavior that evil can come from just having a bad childhood.  And not all people doing evil deeds come from bad homes.  It certainly increases the chances, but it's no guarantee either way.  I just can't agree that it is all nurture and no nature.

Brigid

[jordanspeeps]

dandylife,

i see what you’re getting at here.  how do we move on, right?  Personally, I’m looking up my resources and trying to find out how I can get some therapy.  I’m self-employed and don’t have typical health insurance, nor can I afford it, really.  But I am getting ready to re-enter university, and I believe I will be able to utilize their services while a student there.  I’m desperate to change my depressed state.  I could use some ideas on changing my thought patterns and coping with the everyday and future stress that are my Nparents.  I decided it wrong to just up and leave them forever without notice and will have to care for them, (somehow) in their elderly years, so I’d better figure out soon how to cope with Nism or else it’s likely I will self-and other-destruct!!!  I don’t want to do that.

As for the state of the world and how we deal with Nism as humans.  I don’t know if you can even get us to quantify and agree on a problem, let alone have the global interest and humanity to attempt to solve it.  It is survival of the fittest isn’t it? to In the meantime,  like the common cold, we treat symptoms, I suppose.

thanks for the input dandylife.
mum and hopalong, the kind words about  motherhood are appreciated. 
tiffany

[Portia]

Oh Tiffany, I learn more every day.

Please keep talking if you want to. Your experiences are shocking and …. I don’t what to say to express my horror and amazement. Horror for your experiences, amazement at how I perceive your apparently relative low anger? I’d be – I don’t know.

I’ll do (hopefully) ‘rational’ stuff in talking if that’s okay. You talk about being a lunatic of late, not behaving right etc? I’m using my own words there. I just want to say, you sound sane and you behave just fine to me. Please give yourself a break, permission to be who you are (I like who you are), if that’s possible.

Just a couple of thoughts:

I thought it was my father's relative "normal-ness" that accounted for any "normal-ness" in me.

Yeah. I’ve found that I’m so different to my birth parents, apart from physical similarities. My brain doesn’t seem anything like either of theirs.

I thought I was a product of two sets of genes and that I would inevitably grow up to be ‘a chip off the old block’, showing behavioural and thinking similarities to my parents. I kept looking for traits in me from them, as though I wasn’t a separate, defined individual.

I know now that I am a separate, distinct person with my own thoughts and feelings. Not inherited! It’s like I expected to become a carbon-copy of bits of both of them, without my own ‘self’. I guess that’s because I didn’t have a ‘self’ of my own to trust and nourish? That’s how I see it.

Two years ago, I was proud and amazed at what I was able to accomplish as a child, but recently my spirit had begun to break as I mourned and felt sorry for the child in me.

When I started to realise my stuff I found it overwhelming and disorienting. I felt like the world I knew was shifting and becoming a different place. I still feel like that sometimes. I didn’t see it as my spirit breaking though; not sure I had a spirit in the first place. I was just a numbed out survivor who didn’t feel much. That spirit you mention breaking……how do you see that? I mean, what does it mean to you, your spirit breaking?

I think maybe it’s okay to break up a little sometimes to help us reform ourselves into something more real and alive?

I just read your post above and wanted to say, have you read/got any books of practical advice that have helped you? I found the easy ‘Why is it always about you?’ very practical on: finding your own reality, knowing your strengths, dealing with the Ns in everyday life. It’s my handbook!

Take care.


Hi Brigid, the more I read, the more I don’t know. I’m changing my mind to ‘maybe both’ (born/made) as I think more and read more. I’d like to examine those brains while they’re alive, not dead! Maybe they’re scanning Saddam’s brain as we speak? Although we probably know enough about his family.

From what I can tell, we really don’t know. There’s so much we don’t know! Thanks for telling your experiences, it made me think differently.

[jordanspeeps]

portia,

In your comment,
 

If people were pre-programmed to self-destruct…..they wouldn’t live from the outset. They wouldn’t draw breath.
What of miscarried fetuses or stillbirths? Would the hypothesis allow for that? 
I’m not sure I understand what you mean here? I think if babies are miscarried or born dead (and not from medical or other mishap) then the baby had something ‘wrong’ with it. It wasn’t viable.

I felt you were saying, we wouldn’t even draw air if we were pre-programmed to self-destruct, but it happens.  Life is begun and “something” programs it to end.  Hence miscarriage and stillbirth.  What if that pre-programmed likelihood of physical/ or mental destruction or death is not meant to be as a fetus or infant.  What if that time is 12 y.o. or 17 y.o. or 32 y.o.  Whenever they organism has encountered the “great stressor.”

and in reference to:

In surviving pain and suffering and self-hatred we grow and start to get better

That still seems a little counter-intuitive to me,

I should have expressed myself more clearly.  I probably should have used the word “seemed counterintuitive”  Based on my former thinking patterns, it goes against what I’ve learned about pain.  From my parents I received the message that dealing with painful things makes you worse, not better.   I was programmed to think there was no use in drudging up, or enduring pain, best to avoid it completely.  We lived an extremely sheltered and boring life.  Ironically, as a child, I would beg my father to help me explain the bible verse beatitude that goes, “Blessed are the longsuffering, for they shall see God.”

Back to point, portia, these days I tend to agree with you, (and Dr. G and others) that experiencing pain and self-hatred can help us grow and get better.  My current source of pain, I believe, is my intense anxiety which breeds negativity and pessimism.  Stuff I used to hide from myself and others with ultra-decorum and super-politeness, (mostly to get folks to like/accept me) is now keeping me up at night and keeping me near panic attack mode.  I can no longer stuff things deep down, ignore, or avoid.  But it really bothers me that the prevalent mood lately has been that of frustration and anger at my parents.  I thought I was through parent-bashing.  I thought I had come to an understanding about the “why” my parents treated me the way they did.  It’s tricky when they are still very much alive and kicking, still delivering poor treatment, criticisms, value-judgments, and disappointment.

oh and yes, portia, there were kind people in my life, but often when i became too attached to someone as a child, they simply removed me from them.  there was Mrs. Martha, my childhood neighborhood baby-sitter who watched a lot of the neighborhood kids.  I LOVED her.  We bonded as I sat between her legs having my hair braided.  She loved to watch soap operas, and was a renowned cook, and she sometimes let us get away with visits to the “cookie monster” cookie jar between meals without punishment.  I followed her around like a puppy and she didn’t seem to mind. I was about five to six and I remember having such a good feeling when I was at her house.  I also had teachers, principals, and other members of the community rooting for me.  They knew what was going on , even when I had no idea.  My parents were despised by some, both as a couple and individually and I could sense the hostility as a child.  But I could also sense a desire to help me.  I believe now, they could sense my naivete and sheltered/isolated circumstances.  Quite a few narrow escapes in my childhood, probably due to unwitting helpers, (heroes) showed me my way of escape.  Thanks for reminding me of them.

lastly portia:

if not coping then what?  Please expound on what you mean here.

Coping. I don’t want you to cope. I don’t want anyone to cope. Coping is not dealing, is not solving, is not changing. Coping is continuing in the same place and fighting the ‘you’ inside that wants to yell and scream at what was done to you. It’s valid to feel pain and rage and anger. Therapy is one of the best places to do it. If you can do it with one person who listens to you, believes you and doesn’t judge you but allows you to revisit that pain….that’s how the pain lessens and is replaced with better understanding and a more realistic set of emotions (realistic emotions for adult life).

Coping is about scabbing over the wounds, covering them. Talking about advancing to a more fulfilling adulthood is talking to prop up your sense of false self. That’s my interpretation. I’ve done it and continue to do it. When I get threatened, I become so darn ‘right’ about what’s right for me. I get very ‘adult’ when I’m threatened

Take care guys.

[Portia]

Hiya Tiffany  thanks for your reply. What are you going to study (if that’s not too intrusive)? You have things mapped out and planned and I admire that greatly.

Something jumped out at me from your words:

But it really bothers me that the prevalent mood lately has been that of frustration and anger at my parents.  I thought I was through parent-bashing.  I thought I had come to an understanding about the “why” my parents treated me the way they did. 

Maybe you understand intellectually …. but the feelings associated with their cruelty and indifference towards you are still there? We don’t have a choice about loving our parents; or making ourselves bad and them good in some way?

It’s tricky when they are still very much alive and kicking, still delivering poor treatment, criticisms, value-judgments, and disappointment.

They might be delivering those things – do you want to receive them? Do you have to receive them, feel them, take them to heart or head? Or can you use your justified well of anger to really get them out of your head – so that you simply don’t care what they say or think?

That’s what I meant about not 'coping'. Nobody says you have to cope with it. Maybe you can get their crap (and it is theirs, not yours) out of your head and you don’t have to cope with it. You can get rid of it. It’s not yours. They did wrong. Not you. Make sense or not to you?

(((Tiffany)))

[jordanspeeps]

i dont see problems only hurdles, there is always a way over them. i refuse to be beaten or consumed. 

good for you, darky. you sound like a survivor? what is the source of your strength? 

All four of my parents children are neurotic in some way and textbook examples of the abuse cycle.  I believe my middle brother to be a Munchausen by proxy case by my mom.  He manifests unexplainable symptoms that in his mind, keep him from his three children, (all under 3) who live two hours away in another state.  He believes, with mom’s prodding, that they are all defective and slow and damaged.  The twins were born, premature, I tell him to account for some of the delayed development.  He’s convinced they are not smart, slow to walk, etc. and compares them to “fast” babies constantly.

My oldest brother is a homeless bipolar crack/heroin abuser and is not at all responsible for his 3 children by 3 mothers.  My youngest sister seems like an introverted type of N, is extremely destructive, only dating drug abusing, controlling, violent, suicidal men.

And as for me, I’m not sure if it’s a full blown disorder, but I struggle with anxiety.  I exhibited a flight response for the major part of my life, but since there’s nowhere to go anymore, I’ve been acting out, jittery, confrontational, restless.  In the past two arguments to my husband, I did something I thought I’d never do.  I threatened to separate from him. Not because of him, but because I felt worthless and stupid as a wife.  I felt he should cut his losses and go, so I wouldn’t ruin his happiness. He was floored and hurt. I really need to stay grounded for my child and husband. We have a beautiful thing going here and I’d hate to lose them, it would be the stupidest thing, I’d ever done. 

thanks for the input darky, how do you and your sister relate to one another.  Are you close?  Do you feel you can help her change her way of thinking?  Do you feel you should/want to?

Tiff

[jordanspeeps]

thanks brigid,

this is more of where I was going with the original question: examples of “innate behavior patterns” in the face of opposing environmental cues.  From what I’ve read about DNA, scientists already believe that our genes program for some abstract characteristics like intellectual ability and the way we express anxiety.  DNA/RNA is involved in a constant repairing and mutation process especially when we become infected with some viruses, (like flu) or cancer.  This constant repair, I would imagine, could lead to some variations that could pass on to future generations.   

With that in mind, Is it so outlandish to believe that DNA in it’s infinite complexity and beauty , holds the explanation for many behavioral attributes required for protection/survival.  Genereations and generations of learning and surviving has encoded some things on our familial and collective genotype that HAS to hold answers for us.  What if a likelihood to develop NPD could be located on the genome.  It’s like having the map to the hidden treasure chest sitting in the bottom of a cluttered closet at home.  Isn’t it worth knowing if we could help at least identify it, prepare for it, and know what we are dealing with in treating it?  What if your parent had this “likelihood” identified as an infant or fetus and was “treated” as an infant/toddler.  Treated with love, kindness, balance, coping skills, etc.  Doesn’t that amaze you somehow?  Or is this a pandora’s box?  The movie Gattica now springs to mind.

One other note, for the sake of “this” argument, I’m not really putting forth the question regarding whether or not we are born evil per se.  However, some do consider NPD to be a manifestation of evil, so I understand the reference, Portia.  Also, some consider NPD to be nature’s way of exhibiting ENTROPY, a scientific concept similar to radioactive decay where a chemical or biological organism expresses self-destruction or decay or erosion due to the mere passage of time or to some exposure to a stressor.  (for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction).  Am I cycling around age old arguments here?  Might that explain why our loved ones with NPD seem to get WORSE with age?   Can we merge science, social science and religion on this one guys?

I’ll take this moment to apologize if my anxiety-driven thoughts and musings make anyone her feel voiceless or frustrated.  I don’t intend to harp on the “why” and the “what” forever.  My curiosity is just getting the best of me on this matter.  Thanks for the support and patience.

Have a great day,
Tiffany

Oh, I see new posts.  I'll read and respond when I get a break today.

[Portia]

Back again Tiffany, just going back a little, is that okay? Sorry to keep posting – I have a feeling you want to do the right thing and keep pace with replies? – well heck, I’m probably a real pain in the arse right now! I keep posting to you! Please don’t concern yourself with my stuff –take what helps, leave what doesn’t, and don’t worry about telling me either / or. Do as you wish okay? Is that okay, can you do that without feeling ‘bad’ in some way? Just asking. And prodding. And probably being very annoying. Tsk tsk.

Life is begun and “something” programs it to end.

No I wasn’t saying that. Sometimes I think we’re simply deficient and aren’t viable to live. Programmed mental disturbance in an otherwise healthy brain (e.g. yours) – I kinda doubt it. I sense maybe you worry that you’re not in control of your own mind? I’ve definitely felt like I’m not in control of mine. When I had terrible rages I’d describe them as being completely out of control (of my mind). Those rages really helped me though, they made me realise with a shock that I’d been protecting the images I have of my parents as still ‘loving’ and ‘okay really’ and ‘it’s not their fault’. All forms of denial I’m afraid for me.

Hey…
I should have expressed myself more clearly.

Nope! I should’ve asked what you meant. You’re free to express what you want Tiffany. Truly. Please don’t worry about it okay? Seriously. If I don’t understand, it’s my problem, not yours necessarily. Takes two to tango. Shall we dance?  Sorry I’m getting light-hearted because I like talking to you. Yes I do, you’re an interesting and likeable person. I think so.

From my parents I received the message that dealing with painful things makes you worse, not better.   I was programmed to think there was no use in drudging up, or enduring pain, best to avoid it completely.  We lived an extremely sheltered and boring life.

Yeah! I'm quite mad reading this, not at you. Best repress any bad feelings eh?  We wouldn’t want anyone thinking anyone in this family just might be feeling bad and sad and upset and angry about being abused?? Good Lord. They want to avoid pain because they were dishing it out. They didn’t want you telling them it hurt eh? Or telling anyone else? Sorry Tiffany. Your folks treated you abominably. I’m angry on your behalf. They brainwashed you to think pain was necessary and you had to shut up and keep feeling it? That’s evil. Evil behaviour.

I’m so glad you had Mrs Martha to show you that you are lovable without being super-polite or over respectful or all of that superficial pap. It’s your heart that counts and you have a great heart.

I’ll stop now. Take care. I talk too much I know.

[Portia]

Tiffany......okay I have an admission to make. I’m hogging your thread Tiffany and possibly making you anxious because I’m posting wayyyy too much? I hope not. I’m yakking coz you are interesting and because I want to. I’m just a board embarrassment. Yes I am! And I don’t mind - unless you do. If you want me to stop, I will, okay? But before I really go (and get that washing out of the machine)… there’s a couple more thoughts….

I exhibited a flight response for the major part of my life, but since there’s nowhere to go anymore, I’ve been acting out, jittery, confrontational, restless.

I hope you’ll stay and talk as much as you want to or not as you wish. Confrontational is okay with me. Want to talk about acting out? About what you mean? If not no worries.

I’ll take this moment to apologize if my anxiety-driven thoughts and musings make anyone her feel voiceless or frustrated. 

I don’t feel that your thoughts are anxiety-driven, but if you do, that’s okay. They don’t sound it, to me. You sound cogent and reasonable and reasoning to me. I’m definitely not voiceless or frustrated by anything you say. And what others feel or think is about them yes? It’s not necessarily as a direct result of what you say? You are not responsible for other people’s reactions…….

I don’t intend to harp on the “why” and the “what” forever.  My curiosity is just getting the best of me on this matter.

I love your curiosity. I think curiosity is a huge positive LIFE FORCE . I bet you were punished or deprived of using your curiosity as a child? Feeling bad for asking your Dad to explain the Bible? Feeling bad for wanting knowledge? I did. I was told off for wanting to know stuff.

It’s great to be curious. And to talk about anything you want to talk about. You’re allowed here. I think. Okay time for that washing. bye for now

[jordanspeeps]

brigid,

i think adoptive parents are some of the most special folks alive!  what a gift to give a child and i’m sure you think your daughter was the gift.  My husband’s family has several adopted children in it and it’s a beautiful thing to imagine how much more fulfilling and enjoyable their lives have become  as a result of being removed from adverse situations. i'm sure your daughter is a beautiful reflection of your parenting.

also, in reference to where do serial killers come from, there is a medical test called a functional MRI.  The person’s brain is connected to an MRI  and in real time, they are presented various stimuli.  The test measures response, (blood supply to a specific area of the brain), as the person is being asked questions, shown images, presented with smells, etc.  Maybe this kind of test could tell us about the “hard wiring” of psychopaths. Maybe a "normal" subject would fire a response the "pleasure centers" of his brain when exposed to a conventionally pleasurable stimulus like a bunny or a happy face. Perhaps, however, given the same stimulus, the psychopath, fires a response to the "fight or flight" areas on the brain.  We could have a "crossed wires" situation here, where the psychopath, simply does not "feel" positive thoughts as they relate to positive stimuli.    It would certainly give us a little more functional info to add to what structural inconsistencies we’d find on the preserved brain after death.  maybe we could now be using it on the BTK killer, or Scott Peterson, or even OJ Simpson, (just kidding),   (not really)
 

[jordanspeeps]

When I started to realise my stuff I found it overwhelming and disorienting. I felt like the world I knew was shifting and becoming a different place. I still feel like that sometimes. I didn’t see it as my spirit breaking though; not sure I had a spirit in the first place. I was just a numbed out survivor who didn’t feel much. That spirit you mention breaking……how do you see that? I mean, what does it mean to you, your spirit breaking?

portia

when i speak of my/a/your spirit, I believe it conveys the very ESSENCE of a being, (yes, essence, kind of like the tiny, expensive, condensed, aromatherapy oils you can buy at The Body Shop), it’s that which makes you YOU.  those attributes/characteristics uniquely associated with you and you alone.  spirit enlivens us.  i read somewhere that the root word in “spirit” is the same as the root for “inspire.” which means “to breathe in.”  when one is inspired to create or do something, they can generally be speaking of being overcome with a feeling or idea in a flash or from out of nowhere. (personally, i believe all inspiration is from God). i believe energy (creative) has been transferred to them in that “flash” of inspiration and the being has an opportunity to (re)-act upon it.

when people speak of ghosts as being “spirits” , i believe they are trying to say they sense the personality of the subject who died, whether it be a sweet one or a malevolent one, in the absence of his body. and when people talk about alcohol and liquor being “spirits,” i believe they are referring to the change in one’s personality when they are under the influence of these mood alterers.  i imagine one’s spirit, a spirit, The Spirit, to each be described as the personality of a being.  in a metaphysical sense, “spirit” never dies, it, like energy it is just translated from one individual (or realm) to another. spirit transcends the physical death of the being. And sure, you have a spirit, portia, and i enjoy sensing it through your written words.

when i said i thought my spirit was breaking as “i started to realize my stuff” (borrowing your words, here, portia. STUFF really sums up what all this is, doesn’t it it was like i was “cracking under the pressure” or just plain “going crazy.” at my worse point, i thought i was descending into some type of personality disorder like paranoia, or general anxiety disorder, or even narcissism.  i wasn’t at my best in any way.  i was a shell of myself.  i was not interested in things i used to love.  some people are reading and thinking, oh, she was just clinically depressed.  and it’s true, as i wasn’t eating or sleeping or functioning well, (for about 7 intense days, this lasted, as i was recalling all of these horrific scenes from my childhood and judging them with my now adult eyes).  prior to this, i had locked those memories and bad thoughts deeply away in my head  somewhere and had simply “forgotten” them for 10 years.  During this time, I prayed a lot.  I would pray, journal, and as I wrote, more things would come to my remembrance. 

worried about my health, i felt that i would probably “need” to change my personality in some way, in order to protect myself in the future.  some part of me was trying to “break”   during that time, I was watching ROME on HBO and I remember the commanding officer shouting to the soldier’s “Bend if you must, but do not Break!!!” as the two armies bludgeoned one another with swords.)  i reflected on that statement many times, trying to maintain sanity during the “rough period.”

but to the better part of me, “breaking” means succumbing or death.  so i guess, during that time, i thought i might suffer the death of my spirit. i just thought of something, i was reading, People of the Lie, I think it was, and Peck likened narcissism to the pervasive acts of intentionally killing “spirit,” (undetected and unchallenged, of course)  like serial killers, there is probably some maniacal, devious, component to them that enjoys the “cover-up”, but they get caught because of their conflicting grandiose desire to take the credit for what they were able to get away with for so long.  less “physically” murderous Ns, (the ones who could not tolerate prison or being arrested or otherwise corrected by the Law),  exact their wrath on what really gives us life, our spirits.  and they will attack any vulnerable prey, hence the assault on children, or the talented, or anyone with a positive light shining on them.  Ns are keen to who the innocents are and they like to do the most damage when others aren’t suspecting.  and they hurt the one’s they should love the most of all.

part of the releasing some of my anger has left me doggedly determined to foil the efforts and attempts of the Ns in my life to kill my spirit, if that was the intention, anyway. Living an abundant life is probably the best way for me to avenge my inner child.  (but vengeance is not mine, actually, it’s God’s).

also portia, i’m picking up a BS in Nursing in a fabulous new 18 month program they have here at an awesome in-state institution only 8 blocks from my home.  I followed a pre-med curriculum in undergrad (so i just happened to have had the prerequisite courses needed to enter), I should have a challenging but fun time picking up this degree which is needed to address the nursing shortage within my small business.  i’m somewhat collecting degrees as i have a W I D E range of  interests.  the jack of many trades, master of none.  don’t need to be a master though.  i really love learning new things.  it calms, organizes me.  i’m at my best when i have a million things to do.

btw, thanks, portia for the book tip and here are some books i’m reading, that have helped in some way, lately.  fair warning, it’s eclectic:


Children of the Self-Absorbed by Brown (New Harbinger)

Create Every Day (Compendium)   (a journal with quotes about creativity)

Bible Promises for You

The New Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible by Strong (Nelson)

Dream Dictionary by Crisp (Wings Books) (for my vivid, lucid dreams)

The Book of Dream Symbols by Vollmar (Main Street)

Pisces 2006 Super Horoscope (Berkley)

People of the Lie by Peck (Simon and Shuster)

Are you psychic? How to tap int the hidden powers of your mind.  (Mini Mags Group)

don’t kiss them good-bye by DuBois (FIreside)

Massage: simple solutions for everyday stresses by  Roseberry (The Body Shop)

Total Immersion:  The Revolutionary Way to Swim better, faster, and easier.” by Laughlin and Delves (Fireside)  (for my former water phobia)

The Yoga Book by Sturgess (Watkins)

Overcoming Anxiety for Dummies by Elliot and Smith, (Wiley)

Dr. Andrew Weil’s 2005 self-healing: creating optimum health for your body and soul.

my next reads are: (anyone read these? have they been helpful?)
 
blink: the power of thinking without thinking by Gladwell  (little, brown)

The Art of War by Sun Tzu and Cleary  (Shambhala)


take care,

tiff