Very unhappy new year.

[Lupita]

Probably many people will criticize me but I still post it since I have been criticized all my life, it wont hurt more.
I was triggered all night long. GFM trying to control everything all night. Not letting me talk to my son and GF, always chasing me around, as if she was afraid that I was going to still something. Telling me what to do all night. Come here, why you do not drink, come and dance, sit there, I could not make a conversation with anybody, because she was always there to interrupt anything that I did.
Again, GF, just wanted that my son to be there adoring her. She sits on the sofa and goes down a little. My son then puts his head or lips by her chick and there they are all the time. Friends their age are dancing, talking, interacting, they are also boyfriend and girlfriend, but my son an his GF only isolated. If somebody comes to talk to them, she immediately stands up and goes to another room. Then, my son starts looking for her with his eyes, until he finds her. Then, either he goes to her or she calls him loud. Then he goes. She quickly finds another sofa to sit and do the same operation. If I try to interact with them, GFM comes immediately and stops me, interrupts me, answer any question I ask the kids. She never let the kids answer any question directly to me. In fact, I have never ever had any interaction with GF. GFM has plenty of interaction with my son.
At the request of several friends and pushing GF a lot, at 2:00 AM, she for the first time accepted to come out to the party and danced one song. Then, somebody asked my son to dance one song with me. Come on, dance with your mother. He did. Of course, GF immediately left.
Then I see my son looking for her with his eyes. He finishes one song and of he goes to find her.
I think GFM is trying to disguise a psychological disease of her daughter, or she is totally an N. The daughter is totally empty. She has no conversation at all. All the women last night were friends or family of GFM and I felt that everybody was ganging up against me. It was like everybody was attempting to impede me to interact with my son and GF.
Everybody gave me a bad look when at the end, 3:00 am I decided to leave and asked my son to come with me because he had had a few drinks and did not want him to stay there either half drunk or to drive.
This morning they were talking in codes. My son answering  only monosyllables, yes, no, when he said “not my choice” I knew they are a team against me. On the phone.
We are going to eat together today, as it was a previous commitment. This has to be my last interaction with these people. I am sick, very sick, very sad, I cannot explain the devastation and desolation I feel. I worked so hard to raise my son alone, and he is abandoning me. And I do not say, physically but emotionally. I thought we would be friends forever. I thought I would be part of his world. Part of his life. Part of his family. The family that I never had. And my son has his own apartment that shares with friends, university students, he does not live with me. He only spends with me a few days for Chrsitmas and that is it. He will go back to his apartment tonight probably. His GF goes there all the time, they sleep together, the have a lot of time a lone, how come they cannot interact with me in a family party?
This woman will suck him up into her twisted asperger-ized world and narcissistic family. And nobody let me interact with her so I can build some kind of a relationship with her.
I lost. I lost again.
What is the purpose of my life? I do not know. I guess, stay alive just in case my son starts drowning and I have to help him. He might need me in the future.
Parents are supposed to be there, unconditionally.
I have seen my SIL to turn into the worst enemy of my mother. I am terrified that it would happen to me. My son will hate me if he listens to bad comments all the time. A lie repeated too many times becomes a true in the mind of a person.
I saw the other daughter of GFM, obese, around 300 lb, maybe more, with three children. The husband does not see his family very much. His family was not there at all. Probably they sucked him in too.
Today I gave my son a hug and told him happy new year son, god bless you. I felt  the sensation that he was going away very far away for a long long time.
Please God, help me to do whatever I am supposed to do, although I do not know what. Just pray and wait. Pray the Lord for whatever he wants for my son. Please, help me to accept my situation.

[Hopalong]

Oh Lupita.
I am so sorry.

I don't know the answers.
I don't know what's going on there.

I don't know why the GFM is so invasive.

I do know that your son wants and is choosing to bond with his GF.

I know Lighter will help more than I can, but I am so sorry.
You are in so much pain.

love to you,
Hops

[Hopalong]

The only other thing I can think of is something I can't know...
and it's truly NOT a "blame" thing...just something I wonder about in case it's the missing piece:

Do you think it could be in any way some nonverbal messages that you send?
Like longing looks?
A heartbreaking pleading look?
A kind of fixed gaze where you're asking for some kind of intense connection?

I don't mean it critically at all, Lup, and it may be the total oppostive of how you "present", if you know what I mean.

I'm just trying to figure out why there's so much whirling and bouncing away from you.

Could it be that without knowing it, you might be sending signals?

I don't know if that helps at all.

Hops

[lighter]

I think that it's very natural for young people to smitten with each other like their Adam and Eve perfected.

That, of course, is accomplished by the magic of knowing nothing about each other past the magic that is hormones: /

It's also natural to feel threatened and upset by the new situation... it seems to be coming between you and your son.

The thing is..... he's sort'a been set up bc he already deems you as an overprotective mother hen, bent on making him look and feel foolish with your efforts.

Your his mother for goodness sake, it's your job to be protective. 

Now, that said.... he's got little miss smitten and insecure whispering sweet nothings into his ear.

That works on him too.

How can you change the dynamic where you've been labled a meddling overprotective mama, trying to keep the strings on your boy?

Step back.... he's a young man now, living on his own.

The hormonse aren't going to change.... they're here to stay for a while.

How to interject some reality..... and I've already said this but don't mind saying it again....

how to get him to look so he'll see?

If he feels you're trying to control him..... he'll continue to be blind to what you have to say.

If he thinks you've retreated and are giving him space to be a man.... making his own decisions...... (he wants to feel understood too, Lupita... just like you) then he might be able to see more clearly.

You have to stop making him feel controlled and for goodness sake don't make him feel that he has to defend his lady insecure.

He's got some growing and learning to do.  You can't do that for him, unfortunately. 

(((Lupita)))  So sorry NewYears Even went so badly for you.  It does sound like you need to change the dynamics.

[alone48]

Or is it possibly jealously for the closeness you and your son have/had. She may see you as a threat and needs to remove you. Don't know the answers on how to prevent it, but just a thought. I'm so sorry I thought about you last night and hope all was going well, again wish it had turned out better. You've done such a great job on your own, raising your son. Keep saying your prayers and hopefully this to shall pass.

[Lupita]

No, I do not thik so. Just manipulation, plain manipulation. That is the way of living of that GFM. That is the way she is.
And her D has learned. But there has to be something in that girl, she is mute, like sick.

[Izzy_*now*]

I am so sorry, Lupita.

I think of how the N, brainwashed and 'took' my daughter from me---things were never the same again and still aren't

That is not good news for you to hear, but girl friend sounds like an N, and your son just sounds over-sexed--she is too available.


I recall when I was dating Joe, there was no way I was comfortable at his mother's house when we wanted to have sex. I allowed mother to win to save my reputation.---but (I should write a song about this) "Under the Sumac Trees" a nicely wooded area about a "block" away is where we went once, and what was even worse, his two brothers were walking up the road (street_unpaved)when we were coming out and I'm smoothing my hair.

The teasing from them, being men, was worse than mother knowing, but likely mother approved as she liked me.

(Sometimes I go by a person's past. Momma had a husband and 4 kids: the husband died (war hero). She had an affair and 1 child from that. Then she married Joe's father and had 5 kids  There was a bunch of ½ siblings in there, but to me they were all family, and were a loving family and mt time with Joe and his family, I felt I finally had one.)

Sorry, I got carried away.

Take some quiet time to think about your options, Lupita

Love
Izzy

[Lupita]

I feel bad for all I suffered last night. I feel bad for all I was thinking. I really feel bad with GFM. There has to be a reason. She is just like my mother.
GFM was constantly bombarding me about she wanted my son to protect her daughter, and how much she wanted my son to take care fo her daughter, and many things like that. Like GF was incapable of taking care of her self and she was mentally retarded. Since she did not let me talk to her, I really thought that she was sick.
Well now I changed my mind. After dinner at a nice restaurant, we went to her home and I was ready to go, but she wanted to invite me coffee. I decided to stay for a moment but she is good at manipulating. So, I stayed for longer. Four hours. The kids came to the kitchen and she started asking them questions. She wanted to get a marriage proposal from my son. She started saying that what was going to be the future, that she was worried about her daughter, etc. My son defended him self with flying colors. He said that he did not want to wait too much but he  wanted to know her better. He said that he loved her very much and that he would like to spend his life with her. But he never said he wanted to marry her. Nobody got mad, and I was so proud. Then GFM said that I was worried too much about them having children and ruining their careers. My son said that he is not planning to have children in the next ten years. That his father had him at 36 and he wanted to build a career before having children. He also said that he did not want to work at Borders or Music store for 10.00 and hours for the rest of his life because of a kid. He said, I do not want kids now, I will not quit school, I will not be a bom. I was so proud. Then , she said that she also wants to finish school. She was not looking that happy then, probably because she was expecting a yes, I will take care of you. Then GF said that she wanted to be financially responsible and a professional. That made me feel comfortable. Then GFM attacked me, or I considered it an attack, she said, “your mother is full of bad attitudes, she complains too much and being very negative. My son said, she is the way she is because of the life she has been given, and she will not change and I love her and accept her. You have no idea what my mother has been though. Then I said that I wanted more opportunities to interact with GF. And also that I was tired to be asked if I liked her by many relatives and friends. I said I do not know if she is going to accept me in her house, if she wanted my company, or if she was going to love me. So, I could not say if I liked her or not until I knew that she was going to be nice to me. My son said that he will never cut me off his life. And GF said that she was going to take care of her mother when old and my son said that he was going to choose my nursing home. It is OK. I already knew what I needed to know. I did not know that my son was so smart. He is not a baby anymore and he still loves me.
It is so hard, and Izzy made a very correct comment that GF is too available. So, anyway, my son told me that he will stay with her as long as she loves him. I have to accept that he is not being taken advantage and that he is not a baby, that he can take care of him slef and that if he needs help I will be there.
I think that God gave me this afternoon. Still, I feel very worried, but not as much as I was. When I said good bye, I gave a hug to GF and told her that I wanted company, and that is the most valuable gift that I appreciate. GFM gave me a hug too. I came home and my son came two hours later. He told me at home that he wants to marry her. I told him that GF needs a lot of attention and I did not know how much he was going to put up with that. He said that he will know with time. Then he said that he will not marry her too soon. He said, I will not cut my self unless I have to. He also told me that he has constant fear of abandonment from her and she gets very irritated with that. And then I remember her telling him, if you keep telling me if I am going to abandon you, I will. So I told my son not to tell her that.
My point is that my son is not as naïve as I thought. I was surprised. I still feel a lot of anxiety but feel much better. My son said that I have to fix my problems not his. He is right. He is sleeping now, and going back to his apartment tomorrow. Classes start next Monday again. I am not happy, but not that fearful like last night.
Thank you for all your opinions. I did not expect this conversation today. Still, not happy. Probably because I cant accept my son is soon leaving from under my protecting wings and be on his own with a serious relationship. I have to pray a lot.

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi Lupita

I find your post interesting. There appears to be a lot of good in what you have written It would appear to me that you have no time to have a get together alone with the GF, to get to know her.

Your son had much to say, there was no fighting, he 'stood up' for you and seems to know what he wants, but he might have to work on his abandonment inssues.

I still cannot pick up on anything about the GF, except she is always with him.

What do you thinik it is that still makes you not happy?

Love
Izzy

[Lupita]

I feel very remorceful that I made my son come home with me last night. I think I blew his dignity in front of GF family and friends. I know I had to enforce my boundaires with GFM that she had to know that she cannot have more power than me. I feel bad for that. I felt so threaten. I will never ask my son to do that again. I will ask him to spend only Christmaswith me. New Year I will let him go with his freidns and GF.
I feel very bad about me telling my son what to do. I am underestimating him and he feels that.
I am not mad that GF gives him the validation he needs. I am mad at my self for being selfish with my son.
Am I being normal? Am I too controlling? Am I destroying my son's manhood?
I will step back immediately. I will try. Probably not very successfully but I will try.
Now GFM knows that my son loves me. GF knows that my son loves me. GFM knows that I will fight for what I consider is mine. The light of my life, the purpose of my efforts. She knows now that I am not weak.
Still feel bad for my son. GF looks up to him and I made him come home with me. But today, after dinner and conversation I came home and did not ask him when he was coming home. I called him after midnight because it is an hour driving and I was worried if he was going to sleep here or in his apartment. He decided to come here. I think toniht is his last night in my apartment. Going back to his home close to university and with other students. Going back to normality. I will see him after church on Sunday as usual.
I need somebody to tell me that I am not a bad mother. But I need somebody to tell me the truth too. He said he loved me. That means I am not that bad. I do not tell my mother "I love you", it does not come out of my mouth. Just does not come out.

[Lupita]

Izzy, that she does not talk, she does not communicate, and my son has to work hard at getting how she feels about things. Also that she wants too much attention. But, I understand that it is something they have to work out. Not me. I cannot be their therapist. "Conflict of interest" and Bias. I know that My son has to decide if he can put up with her. Not me. I feel bad. I am a roller coaster of emotions. I am too vulerable, needy and sensitive. Yikes!!!!

Gosh I am disliking my slef so much!!!!!

[Izzy_*now*]

Lupta,

Please don't take on all the responsibility. I think you are better off than you realize.

All I see as a problem is the GF lack of communication---now you know that Your son must not know very much about her.

I think you might benefit from learning how to Let Go with Love, for your son, and the thought came to me, that if he doesn't ever get to know her and what/who she is he might dump her.

Hang in there and give yourself a break.

Love
Izzy

[CB123]

Lupita,

I am SO GLAD you had this last interaction with your son and is GF and GFM.  It really rounds out the picture doesnt it?  Hearing about it was a jolt to me--it looks like they are BOTH needy in the relationship.  It seems, to me, like a typical first love and has a lot of dysfunction in it.  I don't know that it will continue to marriage--I see a lot of clues that it might not.  I think you are doing a great job of emotionally detaching.  I know it is hard.

Don't beat yourself up about asking your son to come home.  He sounds like he knows how to do what he wants.  He may use your request as an excuse to not spend the night with her (so you may think it is your "fault"), but he knows how to stay there even if you don't want him to.  I suspect he did exactly what he wanted to. 

I also wondered if GF's discomfort when her mother was grilling your son might have been embarassment at her mother's brazenness?  I have seen mothers do this, and it is very uncomfortable for the girl.  Picture that girl on this board complaining about her mom.  I can see it.

This week will be my first to spend without any kids, Lupita.  Yikes!  I think I'm going to be okay because I am going to be very busy.  But it certainly is a bit of an emotional jolt.  And at the same time, I feel some relief over having some space for a bit.  I suspect I'll be ready for them all to come home next week. 

Love you, Lupita,
CB

[Hopalong]

Overall, Lup, in spite of the emotional discomfort, I think this is fantastic good news.

Your son's affirmation of his love and commitment to you,
the GFM being nosy but at least coming across as human,
you being honest and open, hugs being exchanged,
and ESPECIALLY your son's ability to claim his independence
(from all 3 of you) to make his own decisions--including about fatherhood.

I am so proud of you.

You've raised a wonderful young man. Now please let him learn his own lessons.
He will thank you for loving and supporting him in whatever decisions he makes.

Truly, he will. You'll be closer than ever your whole lives, if you let him go now.

lots of love,
Hops

[lighter]

Whew!

And...... maybe buy him a simple age appropriate book on communication and mate selction?

What was that one...... GETTING THE LOVE YOU NEED.... was that the name?

I bet there are others here who have better suggestions on a title but..... your son sounds like he's got the basics right.

And you were right about the kind of pressure you felt he was under. 

So glad to hear gf said she wants to finish school and have her own career. 

That's the best thing she could do for herself and I think your son surprised everyone in that room: )