Author Topic: Another Really Not Nice Thing I Did  (Read 4222 times)

gratitude28

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Re: Another Really Not Nice Thing I Did
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2008, 08:14:02 AM »
Hi mud (((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))
First of all, I am sooooo glad to see you here. It's been a while!! I read your response last night, but it derailed me from what I had been thinking and I really needed some time to reevaluate everything and put a finger on what I felt was wrong and not so wrong in the situation.
Here are my main thoughts after going over it last night...
tt, there is no excuse for things that "pop" out of my mouth. On some level, I wanted them to. Or I could have kept my mouth shut. So I did that on purpose.
I think at the wedding five years ago I was a different person, not that it excuses my behavior in any way. I needed an outlet and some validation because I didn't know what was going on. I was also irritated with hearing my NM bitch about my dad's family for my whole life and felt it was unfair. My parents complained about my grandparents in front of us, told us things we shouldn't know and ruined a child's chance to have a normal grnadparent relationship. My dad was angry with his parents, but never evolved to appreciate them in any way. When I ask him about them now, he sounds whistful. My NM loved picking apart his parents, siblings, and their children. He loves this sister, maybe even as a child, since she was 17 years younger than him.
Hops and TT, I love your ideas of talking to my aunt.
So... here is what I think now:
I don't think I do feel bad about talking about my NM. I DO feel bad about that impacting my dad. I am going to write to my aunt and tell her how wonderful it was to see her again and how much we enjoyed spending time with her and her family. I am going to tell her that we went looking for her as soon as she called and dad couldn't wait to see her.
I can't change the way my dad is. He does not communicate with people much. He loves deeply, but is almost like a boy in a shell. I think that he feels that mom keeps up the social end of their relationship. I think he knows that she is not normal (he has commented to both my sister and myself that he believes that NM's homelife was abusive). I don't think he wants to come out of denial. He hides with his hobbies and happily goes to see the family thinking all is fine. So... is he to blame? Partly. But I guess I can absolve him because of his love for other people.
So that is where my confused mind is now.
I am glad I was able to admit to doing this, because I am desperately trying to be honest with myself. I am grateful that you all could help me find a direction. I still may say to my aunt that I am sorry for complaining about NM, that the problem is mine, not something I needed to share. And, yes, I do feel as if she were almost like a sister, so I was confiding in someone I trust, not in a random relative.
Again, thank you all very much.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

gratitude28

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Re: Another Really Not Nice Thing I Did
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2008, 08:22:05 AM »
((((((((((((((Ami, Kelly)))))))))))))))
Thank you.

Deb,
Since things were so screwy, I have no idea what is normal mother/daughter stuff and what is from the disorder. It's funny, my father uses the belief that our conflict is from mother/daughter stuff to explain our problems.... And, yes, I think my aunt did have an idea on some level.
Thanks (((((((((((((((((((Deb)))))))))))))))))))))

((((((((((((((((Changing))))))))))))))))
Thank you so much. Since I have been overseas for so long, my information about family matters has been impacted. My NM used this control of information to create an image of me among our relatives (super educated and aloof) and kept me from being in the loop so that I wouldn't be able to keep up normal relationships. I realize this now. So when they meet me, I am different from what they expected. It is weird. I think I needed to have someone understand what it was like for me. But now that I have grown and understand my situation, I don't feel I need to bring others into it anymore. I know the truth and it is enough for me now. She can't hurt me, because they know me now.

Thank you all so much. This has been a rough one for me.

Love, Beth



"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

LilyCat

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Re: Another Really Not Nice Thing I Did
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2008, 09:58:45 AM »
Beth,

I'm with mudpuppy on this one (and your other thread). You have done nothing wrong.

Ok, maybe it would have been better if you hadn't drunk so much at your sister's wedding, but everything else you did was just fine. You were angry. You were probably feeling very deprived. But as I think about it, I think it took an enormous, enormous amount of courage to do what you did. Even if it wasn't the optimum way of coping, you stood up in the only way you knew how. And, knowing full well how hard it is to lose any weight, I think your willingness to put your body on the line and risk something that would be hard to undo (lose the weight) says an enormous amount about how important this issue was to you. You were screaming in the only way you knew how, and that's just fine.

You are not responsible for your mother's behavior, she is. You are not responsible for meeting her needs, she is. You are responsible for meeting your needs, which you did.

Ok, so maybe the ultimate goal with the wedding dress would have been that you were able to speak up and say No! I don't want to wear this and I won't. And hash it out with your sister. But that's what voicelessness is all about, Beth. We don't know how to speak up and it's a long continuum up that spiral until we can be totally honest like that. And I have found that, while I'm not bad at talking to people on the "outside," talking to my sister is a whole other ballgame. For me there is so much competitiveness and deprivation involved (my mother gave her everything, so did my dad; she was the golden child). Plus, she is just so emotionally incompetent that I don't expose myself to her at all. I don't expose myself to her because I will get nothing back. I do try to model behavior for her here and there, but that's about it. I love her fiercely, but I know what I'm going to get and what I'm not, and I live according to that. I no longer take responsibility for meeting her needs. (Extending myself because she has no emotional competence.) She'll be 60 on her next birthday; if she wanted to learn by now, she would have. Not my responsibility. End of story.

Your aunt knows who your mother is. She grew up with her. She may have unanswered questions, or suspicions that she's never verified ... but she knows her sister. In a way no one else does, because that's how sisters are. If anything, you probably helped her confirm for herself, things she'd already been thinking.

Something about this thread is bringing up a lot of anger in me!!!!! Hmmm. Will have to look at that.

You're not responsible for your father, either. You surely love him very much; but that doesn't make you responsible for anything about him. He's had his chance at life and has done with it what he can or wanted to or whatever. You are only responsible for yourself.

I think when we're raised to meet our parents needs -- which is the opposite of how it's supposed to be -- that feeling of responsibility is a life-long battle. It's almost a psychological death not to respond and meet them and/or cover for or protect them, etc. It feels very foreign to us.

But none of us is responsible for our parent. Even when they're elderly, the care we give should be the care we want to give, not the care we feel obligated to give. If we don't want to care at all, that's just fine. That's being honest about who we are.

I'm going to say this one more time -- you are only responsible for yourself. There is no need for you to protect your mother or collude with her to keep up the mask. You simply aren't responsible for that. You are responsible for speaking up and speaking your mind, appropriately, and I think you did.

Everyone who has responded on this thread has given you great suggestions. I think it's fine if you want to write your aunt; I think Hops' letter is fabulous!! Just make sure it's a genuine choice for you, okay? And nothing you feel obligated or shamed into doing.

...I think there was more I was going to say, but I forget.

xoxo,

Lily

mudpuppy

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Re: Another Really Not Nice Thing I Did
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2008, 11:14:32 AM »
Quote
First of all, I am sooooo glad to see you here. It's been a while!!


Thank you Beth. I poke my head in when I can. Just trying to stay out of pointless conflicts.

Quote
But I guess I can absolve him because of his love for other people.
So that is where my confused mind is now.

Well, that's not such a bad place to be. Just make sure you apply the same standard to yourself as you do your dad.


mud

teartracks

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Re: Another Really Not Nice Thing I Did
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2008, 11:57:03 AM »



Hi Beth,

I love your heart! 

I would offer one more thought to the mix.  Please don't put yourself on impossible timelines to understand  all the intricacies of your family's dysfunction.  I'm kind of a gitterdone type.  Early on in recovery, I felt like I had to figure it all out and deal with the dysfunctions of us all (FOO)  ASAP.  That added one more pressured layer to the process.  One I didn't need.   If I had it to do again, I wouldn't give nearly as much thought to the dysfunction of my family members.  It's been years and years and not one thing has changed in them on account of me worrying about them and their ways.  In the long run I think my concern for them  hindered my own progress.   It is next to impossible to find a balance that allows one to view the dysfunction for what it is, detach from it, and  at the same time exhibit genuine care for the person.   I admire you for your sensible approach.

Wishing you well.

tt


gratitude28

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Re: Another Really Not Nice Thing I Did
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2008, 07:56:57 AM »
(((((((((((((((LilyCat)))))))))))))))
Just a quick note on the previous wedding - my sister had promised she would pick a color and then I could choose a dress I liked. Than they went ahead and chose everything.... When I backed out of being matron, my NM called me seething (literally - I could hear hatred and spit through the phone) and she wanted to know what "she would tell everyone." I told her to tell them the war had just started (it had) and I wasn't sure I'd be able to to travel overseas as hubby might have to go... My dad piped in and told her to back off, that I didn't have to wear something I didn't feel comfortable wearing. He has always stepped in for me if it is a major confrontation. As for the drinking, I quit not too long after and remember that weekend as the hell I never want to go back to drinking-wise. I have been sober for four and a half years. Also, along with being sober, I have learned to be honest and accept confrontation and honesty as a part of life. I am no longer afraid to say no or put my foot down. I am not mean, but I try to be fair to myself too. Lily, thank you so much for taking the time to read and write and for helping me clarify my feelings.

(((((((((((((((((((mud,tt))))))))))))))
Thank you again. Yes, tt, there is no timetable. I think I am learning to live life at life's pace, however hard that can be. I think I am in a good place now. I feel good.

Lots of love,
Beth

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

LilyCat

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Re: Another Really Not Nice Thing I Did
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2008, 09:10:53 AM »
Hi Beth,

Thanks for telling me the complete story. I just wanted to clarify something -- I hope you didn't feel I was judging you or criticizing you or anything. I wasn't; it sounded to me like you were maybe beating yourself up, when I didn't think you needed to. I in no way meant to judge or criticize. I hope you pat yourself on the back every day, for how far you have come and the great successes you've made.

((((Beth)))))

Lily

gratitude28

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Re: Another Really Not Nice Thing I Did
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2008, 09:41:26 AM »
Gosh, Lily, I didn't feel that in any way. I am just so not proud of that time in my life. I just didn't handle it very well, and maybe that was why I felt I needed to explain myself. I so appreciate everything you wrote to me. Thank you so much!!!!!!
Love, Beth
p.s. I cannot change the past; I can only use it to shape my future!!
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

LilyCat

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Re: Another Really Not Nice Thing I Did
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2008, 12:11:51 PM »
Oh good. I just wanted to make sure. It's so hard to tell over email/internet.

It sounds to me like you've forgiven yourself and moved on. I'm so glad!

Juno

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Re: Another Really Not Nice Thing I Did
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2008, 06:04:12 PM »
Juno,
Yes, I do it to a small degree still in that my best friend knows about NM. She has no connection to her, though, so I have not clouded her image. There was a time when I wanted everyone to know. In a way I still do. But to have NM be exposed would be like the Emperor in New Clothes, and would leave a sad, lonely woman standing alone. Does she deserve that? Probably. Sometimes, though, I can't help but pity that small child in her, at the same time that I am disugsted with it and her. I guess I can't be like her (vindictive) or I am afraid I will become her. I was like that for many years as a young adult, and it is not a nice way to live.
I am also so happy to hear you on a medium plane again, Juno. Are you feeling better all around? How is the therapy working? I was so worried about you when you were at your darkest. I am so glad you took charge and came back.
I am sending you humongous hugs and big thanks.
Love, Beth


Beth, I'm sorry--I missed your comment to me.  I will start a thread soon--I am ready to start talking about how things are going.  Things are better for sure.  I am very grateful for this medication.  I think I will get my life back better than before.  Should have done it long ago.  I guess I like to push my luck and live "dangerously".  Apparently I had to see how far it could go.  I can see how curiosity killed the cat.....

And you have a big heart.  Your mother is missing so much by not knowing you.  And she is missing so much by not being able to learn from her mistakes as you do.  (((((((((Beth)))))))))

Love, You Know Who